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Live Trading Or Auction House?


KazenoStigma12
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If you got rare mods in large supply which you know cost 10-20 plat... and other farmers know they cost 10-20 plat... why would you ruin your business? Not everyone is a hardcore farmer. Which means there wont be a billion rare mods on the auction house at once.  Do you know why diamonds are so expensive? Because the people selling them control the market. They leak a bit into the market at a time so people think there rare and buy em for more. Emeralds. sapphires are more rare than diamonds but are cheaper because there not marketed as well.  What your telling me is not a flaw of the system but no offense... human stupidity and not understanding economics. As I have said before I never saw a game economy ruined by an auction house... 

Please go get a book about economy... learn something about supply and demand... might help ya

 

Oh my god, you literally don't understand game economics, which are different to real world economics. Read my latest post to understand, but I will also add some further explanation.

 

Why would we ruin our business? Because it wouldn't be ruined at all. If everything gets cheap, we will work based on volume and arbitrage as opposed to price.

 

We want to make as much plat over time as we can. Assuming we can farm up X amount of each rare, per day (as I said different farmers will do different things) we will also want to move X amount of stock, per day.

 

For those non-hardcore farmers, they might find a mod and be like wh000 finally got it, it's pretty rare. But to a farmer, they get at least 1 - 2 copies per day.

 

The people desiring those rares aren't always going to desire them. Their need is sated by a single copy (in most circumstances). So those farmers who are fast, will just slap on a price that might be half of what the item is worth (let's not talk 1 plat, let's drop a 10 plat mod down to 5 plat). First guy who buys it, doesn't need it again. Next guy comes along and another farmer slaps on a price of 6p. It gets sold. The average player cannot win with an auction house system.

 

A trade system BENEFITS non-hardcore players. Auction house benefits the more hardcore players and those with the dedication to make crazy amounts of plat (maybe they have goals, I dunno).

 

Remember, the key problem to all this is infinite supply because there is presently no way to take items out of circulation (and no one is going to randomly fuse rare mods to decrease supply since each copy is worth plat, even if it's not full value).

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Now, here's the issue. There's always an influx of items because of the amount of players, and the fact that supply never goes down as someone mentioned earlier. And because with the amount of people, someone will put something for 60 plat, but almost immediately someone will put one for 59, and then 58, and sure, if you sell them fast enough, you might be able to get back to 60 plat, but if there's one thing I noticed from the Steam market, is that it never does.

 

If you want to use the Steam Market as an example, look at Team Fortress 2. People find items just by playing the game. Literally everyone is always finding items. There are items in that Market that aren't limited, that are selling for hundreds of dollars. Anyone could open a box and get one of those items, yet they are being sold for more than 1 dollar.

 

Why is that? Because the community determines the actual value, not some random guy selling it for 2 cent.

 

Keep in mind that if they want something to be sold, it will have to be lower than the rest, which means that they can set their own price, but if they want it to be sold any time soon, then it has to be lower than the rest. Think of how many Redirections there are out there. There could easily be over a thousand redirections at lower prices than the one he wants to sell at, and the amount of ones being sold will always be increasing, meaning it's quite possible he could never have his item sold.

 

Where do you get the idea that there will always be more being sold? It's not like they get sold and stay in the market. And hell, I'd love to sell a Thief's Wit for 250 plat, but that's not going to happen. Just because I personally think it's worth that much, doesn't mean it is. I'd have to sell it at the price that people are willing to buy it at, and the price that I'm willing to sell it at. That's the intersection of Supply and Demand.

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Supply & demand. Seems to work pretty well in other MMOs - try finding rare, in-demand stuff in say the Neverwinter AH or the Vindictus marketplace at anything but "seller's market" prices. Yet amazingly enough you can get rid of far more common stuff people nevertheless want to buy in either, at prices that usually aren't the equivalent of 1 plat. (Helps ofc that neither uses "real-money" currency for this sort of thing.)

 

More practically, the current system of spamming the trade channel with WTS/WTB/WTT messages seems terribly cumbersome and inconvenient, and basically would appear to require the relevant parties to be reading it at the same time instead of, you know, actually playing the game. You'd think would-be sellers being able to list their offers in some kind of marketplace where potential buyers could then look them up would make everyone's life plain easier...

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I am against this. Number one reason, undercutting. Everyone will keep undercutting until the market becomes saturated with low plat offers.

 

You don't want to sit in trade? Enjoy having to sell your rare mods for 1 plat.

Totally.

Look at Steam trading cards. Everybody undercutting each other and every foil card is selling for 1 cent... oh, wait...

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There is one more thing that shows the difference in items in warframe and other games

 

Warframe: no random stats, Latron = Latron = Latron = ...

Diablo: pure randomness on items, it means that X Occulus Wand > Y Occulus Wand, or X Griswold Sword > Y Griswold Sword

 

You won't find better Latron than other Latron (don't say "Prime" cuz its other weapon except similar name)

 

This will makes prices lower even faster, the prices just never will rise, it will always drop as fck (no matter how slowly - it will still be less worth with every day)

 

U15 Cutframe

 

Trading on channel is really good, yeah it can be boring or not that easy, but this will guarantee good amount of plat for item (if not, then u eventually F*** up with ur trading skills)

Edited by EmbedFire
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If you want to use the Steam Market as an example, look at Team Fortress 2. People find items just by playing the game. Literally everyone is always finding items. There are items in that Market that aren't limited, that are selling for hundreds of dollars. Anyone could open a box and get one of those items, yet they are being sold for more than 1 dollar.

 

Why is that? Because the community determines the actual value, not some random guy selling it for 2 cent.

 

 

Where do you get the idea that there will always be more being sold? It's not like they get sold and stay in the market. And hell, I'd love to sell a Thief's Wit for 250 plat, but that's not going to happen. Just because I personally think it's worth that much, doesn't mean it is. I'd have to sell it at the price that people are willing to buy it at, and the price that I'm willing to sell it at. That's the intersection of Supply and Demand.

When I say sold, I mean being put onto the market. My bad regarding word choice. And now I feel like we should just stop this argument because neither of is getting anywhere. Point of an argument is to make someone see your side of something, but seems like we're both failing.

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-snip- (You quoting and replying to me)

 

Things can be taken out of the market other than people quitting. If someone buys something like a maxed mod, they aren't going to want another copy of it, They can still play the game, but they are out of the market (so to speak) for that mod. And that copy of that mod is also out of the market.

 

Like you said, if more people join than those that quit, demand will rise, therefor causing prices to rise.

Some of the people who join will turn into hardcore farmers like yourself, and that will drive supply up... causing prices to fall.

 

Prices, over the course of time, WILL change. They'll rise and fall based on all sorts of different cause, but they will balance out to what the community as a whole views as the right price. If that price happens to be 1 plat, and that is lower than what you think it's worth... Well sorry to say it, but by economic standards (both real life and game), your opinion on its value is wrong.

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When I say sold, I mean being put onto the market. My bad regarding word choice. And now I feel like we should just stop this argument because neither of is getting anywhere. Point of an argument is to make someone see your side of something, but seems like we're both failing.

 

I agree. You made good points though. :)

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Things can be taken out of the market other than people quitting. If someone buys something like a maxed mod, they aren't going to want another copy of it, They can still play the game, but they are out of the market (so to speak) for that mod. And that copy of that mod is also out of the market.

 

Like you said, if more people join than those that quit, demand will rise, therefor causing prices to rise.

Some of the people who join will turn into hardcore farmers like yourself, and that will drive supply up... causing prices to fall.

 

Prices, over the course of time, WILL change. They'll rise and fall based on all sorts of different cause, but they will balance out to what the community as a whole views as the right price. If that price happens to be 1 plat, and that is lower than what you think it's worth... Well sorry to say it, but by economic standards (both real life and game), your opinion on its value is wrong.

 

I agree, but you miss one key point.

 

Prices rising is dependant upon newer players having the platinum and wanting to buy those maxed mods rather than buy it themselves. If they are seasoned gamers, they will look at prices straight away and buy only the core mods they need to farm the rest themselves. They will then be able to inject more supply into the market in the hopes of recovering the plat spent to get to where they are.

 

But again, the reason why it will NOT balance out to what the community as a whole views as the right price, is because everything tradable in warframe remains tradable until taken out of circulation.

 

I was using only mods in my example, but with prime parts, once something is built, it is taken out of circulation. However, the pain will be felt by all the individuals who go: "Selling Paris Prime Set *price*, pm me". Because everyone will just go grab the cheapest instance of each part.

 

Some items will remain constant. That point I have to give, BUT a lot of the items that assist newer players, will suffer. Because seasoned traders will pick and choose (with the current trade system) the juiciest parts of their inventory...to sell. Newbies, only have access to certain rares due to their inability to explore further and to farm in higher difficulty areas until they have access to more plat. With the current system, they have a higher chance of selling even the low-tier stuff, by camping trade chat for a little while.

 

Come the auction house, all the easily obtainable stuff is going to go for 1p (in trade it's already selling damn near that price). People will be turned off and just walk away. Also even at 1p, it may not be sold, since who will want something they can farm themselves?

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-snip-

 

While I understand what you're trying to say, but I disagree. When I started playing, there was no trading. I'm not exactly sure when trading was implemented, but judging by your join date, I'm pretty sure you joined after it was added. And I can say, from personal experience, people got by. If you wanted something, you literally had one option. Get it yourself. Then trading was added, and lazy / rich people rejoiced.

 

People buy things because they are lazy. You said, "who will want something they can farm themselves?" That's a good question. You're a hardcore farmer, and I imagine you sell things. Anything you sell can be farmed by the buyer, yet they buy it. Because they're lazy.

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I personally don't like the live trading system in the game I find it boring that I have to use my time saying WTS (insert items).  I would like a auction house that you can put your items in state your price and leave them there to sell like so many MMORPG's do.  Now i'm not saying leave them there forever I say put on a 24 hr limit or it gets sent back to your inventory.  This way We can sell our items and continue playing the game at the same time.  We all know how this works state your price (what you want in return), gets bought, and whatever you wanted in return get sent to your email inbox.

 

Now who's with me? and if you are against it please explain why.

 

KazenoStigma12

 

They teased an auction house months ago.

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I am against this. Number one reason, undercutting. Everyone will keep undercutting until the market becomes saturated with low plat offers.

 

You don't want to sit in trade? Enjoy having to sell your rare mods for 1 plat.

As someone who has played many MMORPG's (though my main two right now are Warframe and Vindictus) I have never encountered an auction house that has every sold anything for 1(insert currency) if anything people over price it.  I put stuff at the minimum value and am still the cheapest in the auction house cause everyone goes it sells for this let me put it at this high as possible value.  The thing you should notice about newer auction house is that the prices scale by lvl you are (or expected to be) rarity, and how much of that resource is available.  If you or the devs are that worries about it then they can ad a minimum price for each mod, prime part, resource etc.

 

Also you should only be able to sell certain things for platinum (rare mods or prime parts).  Other things you have to sell for credits good luck getting stuff down to one credit.

Edited by KazenoStigma12
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While I understand what you're trying to say, but I disagree. When I started playing, there was no trading. I'm not exactly sure when trading was implemented, but judging by your join date, I'm pretty sure you joined after it was added. And I can say, from personal experience, people got by. If you wanted something, you literally had one option. Get it yourself. Then trading was added, and lazy / rich people rejoiced.

 

People buy things because they are lazy. You said, "who will want something they can farm themselves?" That's a good question. You're a hardcore farmer, and I imagine you sell things. Anything you sell can be farmed by the buyer, yet they buy it. Because they're lazy.

I partially agree with you.  Yes the rich people of the game rejoiced because they didn't have to work for stuff anymore, but on the other hand people who want to sell stuff is probably because they worked hard for something and got it along the way but don't want it.  At the same time they don't want to sell a prime part for a measly 3,500-5,000 credits.  On the other hand there are somethings you quite literally can't get because you lack the resources to get it yourself.  For example you use up all your Void keys you're trying to get that one part but you got everything you didn't need.  Before the whole recruiting (or as i like to call it "piggy backing") was added you would have to farm for keys and the chances of getting a key is pretty low (except for interception) and getting the one you want is even lower.

 

I will not argue there are some people who use the auction house because they are lazy this is a true and proven fact, but there are also those who use it after they have expended all their resources and have tried everything.  Those who lose it as a last resort.  And those who are lazy are just hurting themselves are those who work hard and put the stuff they don't want in the auction house reap the benefits of they're labor such as lvl you're warframe, weapons, sentinel, resources etc...

 

There are defiantly some thing you shouldn't be able to put in the auction house such as Argon crystals or other time limited items.

 

I hope this was the type of reply you were hoping for not some "u idiot you're point is invalid"  I also hope u will treat me with the same respect I treated you with.

                                KazenoStigma12

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I know whats missing we definitely want more chinese goldfarmers in the game now to ruin it.

 

 

I feel slightly offended by that. 

Please try to refrain from racist jokes some people like the don't really have anything for or against them.  But we have many different cultures on this game please respect them.

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Just keep the limited trades to prevent people from making money with money :P

I think what you're trying to say is.  Don't let people buy stuff with platinum and sell it for more (correct me if i'm wrong).  But yes if you buy something using platinum weather it be from the shop or auction house then your should not be able to list it in the auction house.

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space ninjas aint got no time to be settin up no stinking space auction houses

 

WOW------------>  that way

 

/dramas

yes but we have time to make a new loading screen, add bushes and other decals to the dojo, give you a ship to move around in (okay maybe not that one cause they could have possible future plans for it).  i'm not gonna lie this would take a while because they would have to set it up to be cross server and give everything a recommended marketplace value and plenty of other factors.  But hey they deliver when we ask it just takes time.

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Both, an auctionhouse for general stuff and live trading if you want to give an Item to a specific person, say, a friend or clanmate.

As for needing live trading they could just add an attachment option to the message box.  Attach whatever you want and send it to X player.

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I thought an auction house or trading post would be good until I actually used the Trade Chat.  You get FAR better deals through live bartering.  It's as simple as that.  If you're in favor of an actual system, you're basically in favor of never getting a great deal.  You turn the investment process into penny stocks.  The only thing a system accomodates is laziness.

Investments are basically penny stocks that you plan ahead of the curve and sell them when they are at their highest.  So either way you're just selling "penny stocks"  Just one way you sell them one (or in most cases multiple at a time) really quickly or you wait get the most for your money.  If this were the case I would agree but it isn't this game trading system is currently spam until you make it.  As for better deals if buy that you mean bundles such as "Selling full ember prime for X amount"  i have seen much better deals buying stuff separate.  Rather than bundles.  And the prices are good if you're willing to spend money on the game already.   Basically the current trading system is Either you already have money or you're #*($%%@.

Not many new people get a break through in the trade system (I may be wrong).

Edited by KazenoStigma12
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You believe that people won't sell for 1 plat. If there's an auction house. Get ready to see 6 - 10 copies of almost any rare saying 'Semshol' as the user, going for 1 plat because I have to undercut the guys selling for 2 plat (who will do the same the next day). If you think it won't happen, it will. Game just tilts in favour of the farmers. The only thing holding us back is I can't waste space in trade chat telling everyone the number of each rare I have stocked up.

Most people have a bare minimum they are willing to sell for I have seen cases where there are a ton of rare items in AH but most of them went for the same price.  And there was a certain point where they stopped going down.

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