We Need More Player Interaction

[Gildemesh]

(I'll try to keep this one short and open)

 

Okay, so after playing some Public games, I found that most people didn't want to have anything to do with other players at all (save for the rare chatty person). If you take it down to the bare basics (things that any frame/weapon can do), we can't easily support each other and cooperate.

 

As far as I know, there are two things you can do with a player that doesn't take a special ability or item: shoot at the same target to kill it, or revive someone before they bleed out.

 

Outside of that, there are simple buffs like Roar and Blessing (which is a start), but even with that, I feel the player to player interaction is very weak. Players even go to the lengths of rushing ahead of each other, abusing speed mods just to quickly run a mission. Because of this, it becomes increasingly difficult to even stick together (the poor radar isn't helping), which is usually essential to working together.

 

Team restores are helpful, but they're very costly. I never thought I would run out of Ferrite until I crafted them (and Specters). I've run out of options to help my team other than play as Trinity.

 

It would be awesome if there were some limiting factors that indirectly cause players to work together, much like other team shooters. The 2-lock door was nice, but usually there's more than one person rushing. Shield Lancers and other beefy enemies can still be taken out with the use of mods like Punch Through or Serration, so there's no need to work together. A lot of ideas that might have worked have been overcome by sheer brute force. I would like to see an enemy that is tough to kill without strategy and/or team work.

 

Please, let this game involve team work. I enjoy it a lot.

 

 

I won't list any suggestions for once, because there's a lot of ways to manipulate player interaction. For example, an enemy could become very difficult to take down without exploiting a mechanic such as the enemy stunning itself after launching an attack. How is that team work? Get a friend to manually trigger the attack. Plus, a solo player could still take out the enemy, but it would take more work.

[bejuizb]

I also don't mind team co-ordination, but I firmly believe that it shouldn't become mandatory. Perhaps making team coordination have substantial benefits to ordinary play is the best of both worlds: you can decide to lone wolf it, and do just fine. Or you can work with your buddies and gain a greater edge.

[YourBusDriver]

OP

 

Too bad I'm running solo on account of door heroes...

Edited July 30, 2014 by YourBusDriver

[thegamer118]

people in survival and boss missions (sometimes) are cooperative, in defense missions too, at least i try to be cooperative 

 

and there s a lot of frames that have cooperative skills like frost snowglobe and trinity s skills, loki radial disarm can be cooperative and a bunch of others

[DiosGX]

(I'll try to keep this one short and open)

 

Okay, so after playing some Public games--

 

Team restores are helpful, but they're very costly. I never thought I would run out of Ferrite until I crafted them (and Specters). I've run out of options to help my team other than play as Trinity.

Boldfaced your main issue in all of this.

 

I could go on a long tirade, but I'll also do my best to be concise: if you have to rely on PUG players to function in a teamwork environment, you'll end up with a game that cannot even be played. While I would like to see something, perhaps even an entire new game mode focused around team work, attempting to force it into the basic gameplay overall would make this game... not really worth playing, to be honest.

 

If this is really what you want, then you have to make it happen on your own. You need to find other like-minded people and impose upon them your own idea of Challenge Mode... which is something I do myself. It boils down to this:

 

Use intentionally weak weapons.

Use intentionally weak frames.

Talk to your squad about frame ability synergies before entering.

Just... play the game.

 

Your major complaint here stems from the fact the game is designed doesn't mandate team interactions and cooperative play. The difference here is that you are able to do exactly that if you choose to. But you aren't going to see that with random groups. And again, forcing cooperative play with (forgive my harshness of words) absolute mongoloids that cannot function on their own, and then having my own actions be hampered by that? No thanks. Just... no.

 

RE: Ferrite and restores:

 

You really need to focus on getting the 10X Restore Blueprints. Yes, they are 250K and the buy-in is kind of big. However, you are paying 4K for a single restore in credits. Whereas a 10X costs only 9K credits, and utilizes Nano Spores and Polymers which are much, much easier to obtain in bulk. I'm a big fan of Restores as well, and frankly the singles are just to introduce you to their concept. Continuing to use them long-term is a horrid idea. o3o

[Gildemesh]

-snip-

 

While I understand your concerns, I'm not saying it should be forced onto others. It never has, and every enemy can be killed solo (like Sargas Ruk, even though his weak point soon appears on his back). But, there should be something that works as incentive to help people. At this point, it's just affinity, which means nothing to people who do not have items to rank up. For example, we could make a leech-esque enemy (like the leech osprey's attack) that team mates can shoot off, as mentioned in a dev stream.

 

Also, I understand that the restore thing is kind of a me problem, but I just mean it's an example. It shouldn't be difficult to help your team (to a degree, if there's no challenge, where's the fun?), is all I'm saying. Thank you for the tip, though!

 

As for the public game thing, some people, including me, do not have people they know to play with. Currently, I am in a Ghost clan and there's one other (somewhat inactive) person in it. I don't have a lot of people to contact, and it's very difficult to convince someone to work together outside of game mechanics. I tried telling a person to stop killing my Mind Controlled allies, and he responded quickly with, "why the f*** should I care?" And he was probably right. There's no reason not to kill my minion, because it doesn't effect him at all. It's not like he needed the support.

 

tl;dr mechanics of team work shouldn't be forced, but should be rewarding, not negative

Edited July 30, 2014 by Gildemesh

[HalfLord]

If you want "teamwork" find some friends or join a clan. Otherwise it's largely everyman for himself and don't think for a second that the others will wait if it mean getting their reward a minute later than usual

[Gildemesh]

If you want "teamwork" find some friends or join a clan. Otherwise it's largely everyman for himself and don't think for a second that the others will wait if it mean getting their reward a minute later than usual

 

I'd rather not join a congregation of strangers that use Solar Rails to recruit people. Or lose all my progress in my Ghost clan.

 

 

I also don't mind team co-ordination, but I firmly believe that it shouldn't become mandatory. Perhaps making team coordination have substantial benefits to ordinary play is the best of both worlds: you can decide to lone wolf it, and do just fine. Or you can work with your buddies and gain a greater edge.

 

Let's take the Shield Lancer. Standing in place 1v1, he's hard to take down. You have to shoot his feet, wait for him to lower his shield. He can also charge you. But there are ways both a solo player and two players could take him down. A solo player could run circles around him or rush him with a kick, at the risk of getting bashed out of it. If you have two players, one could take aim from a distance while the other distracts him, revealing his back.

 

 

people in survival and boss missions (sometimes) are cooperative, in defense missions too, at least i try to be cooperative 

 

and there s a lot of frames that have cooperative skills like frost snowglobe and trinity s skills, loki radial disarm can be cooperative and a bunch of others

 

Yes, but that forces players to take away fun abilities that they may enjoy (such as Zephyr's abilities). Certainly, some frames should be built for support, but there should also be ways your combat pals can help, too.

 

Too bad I'm running solo on account of door heroes...

 

Okay. :c

[YourBusDriver]

Too bad I'm running solo on account of door heroes...

 

Personally, I was exaggerating a bit.

 

It would be nice to have more player interaction, but it shouldn't be forced. 

[Nkomo-Sama]

Team play is best play... I still think if player A causes a heat proc and player B causes an ice proc to the same enemy... it should result in a blast proc and so forth....Also the tougher the opponent (see Notionphils thread https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/238581-forget-better-ai-we-need-better-dumb-enemies) would rally support I am sure...

[bejuizb]

Let's take the Shield Lancer. Standing in place 1v1, he's hard to take down. You have to shoot his feet, wait for him to lower his shield. He can also charge you. But there are ways both a solo player and two players could take him down. A solo player could run circles around him or rush him with a kick, at the risk of getting bashed out of it. If you have two players, one could take aim from a distance while the other distracts him, revealing his back.

 

I'll disagree here. You don't have to do any of that. I go solo against all the mobs in the game, and through a bit of practice and experimentation, found out ways to kill them all very, very easily. Shoot right above a Shield Lancer's shield and you always hit their head. That's how the hitbox works. 

The issue is that the game needs to be designed with independent players in mind because of solo play and procedural level and enemy design. 

[fatpig84]

Pugs are even worse than the recruitment channel.

Thankfully I can recruit from Design council channel which is a step up above up those, barring Clan and Alliance chat as well :p

[Gildemesh]

I'll disagree here. You don't have to do any of that. I go solo against all the mobs in the game, and through a bit of practice and experimentation, found out ways to kill them all very, very easily. Shoot right above a Shield Lancer's shield and you always hit their head. That's how the hitbox works. 

The issue is that the game needs to be designed with independent players in mind because of solo play and procedural level and enemy design. 

 

Okay, yeah, there's things like punch through and the shield isn't big, but that's my point. It should be fun for both teams and solo. Which is what makes this topic kind of an odd one to talk about. How do you make something that can utilize team work, but also allow for solo players to beat?

 

Regardless, I'm not that smart when it comes to ideas. But I do know that it's not any more fun to play multiplayer than it is to play alone. Which is usually a bad thing.

[Rykofer]

It always intrigue me how exciting it was to play global agenda. Teamwork and coordination, specific gears and abilities. It was fun to play.

[CY13ERPUNK]

+1 OP

[Berserkerkitten]

If I want to interact with others and work as a team, I play with friends.

 

No offense, but I just don't believe you can just "add" more player interaction and everyone will play nice and get along. I mean, try joining a random public group on a game like World of Warcraft, where everyone has to fulfill a specific role and people won't even say hello, they'll usually leave you to rot if you die and if they actually talk to each other, they usually address one another by their function, not their respective names. "Priest, heal me ffs!", "Tank, ogog!11"

 

Adding more opportunities to interact with players will only make random groups even more annoying and frustrating. Play with the ones you love.

[Semshol]

-OP's post-

 

This would simply be unfair to solo players.

 

If you want interaction, play with a clan.

 

I see no reason to talk to another player. I do not want to know them, I do not care who they are. I am here to finish the mission. We are space ninjas, we are given an objective, we are not here for a tea-party. Finish as quickly as possible, get your reward, re-arm and get back at it.

 

I don't need to work with anyone to win and I like it that way.

 

NOTHING is more satisfying than killing G3, stalker, harvester or other bosses on your own, with no outside help. If I had other players to help me...well that just wouldn't be fair...for the enemies I mean.

 

The two-door system should actually be removed. If I'm ranging ahead of the team, having to wait for slow-pokes to catch up...is a real pain and a waste of my valuable time.

 

Social interaction when bullets are flying, is rubbish.

[Semshol]

Okay, yeah, there's things like punch through and the shield isn't big, but that's my point. It should be fun for both teams and solo. Which is what makes this topic kind of an odd one to talk about. How do you make something that can utilize team work, but also allow for solo players to beat?

 

Regardless, I'm not that smart when it comes to ideas. But I do know that it's not any more fun to play multiplayer than it is to play alone. Which is usually a bad thing.

 

Not any more fun to play in multiplayer? Have you tried doing 40+ minute survival? Not talking about void here. Imagine this:

 

You and 3 other Tenno, all strangers. Our equipment isn't the best, we're just doing Cassini. One guy looks like he's fresh out of the oven, one pro, me with a horridly underleveled frame and another guy that's seen more death than a retirement home. We didn't say a single word all match. Actions spoke louder than words. I was playing Loki and I was rushing all over the place to throw out Radial disarm (underleveled so only had pitiful range). The other guys were all helping each other in different ways and when it got too hot, we worked together to reach the extraction.

 

That kind of fun, can only be found in combat itself and it isn't found by wasting time to type a message, it is found in the camaraderie that you experience knowing that 3 random strangers have got your back.

 

Sadly I hate people so these moments are rare, but you get the picture.