imaxium Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Yeah, I haven't even touched kubrows yet. I'm waiting till they make them actually fun to get/use and not a pain in the @$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berserkerkitten Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 (edited) during those rare moments where its AI actually reacts and when it doesn't die and lose most of its damage potential, but I agree with pretty much every point raised by the OP. I just don't understand why Kubrows have to be so awkward, restrictive and annoying to use while Sentinels have worked perfectly fine for ages and entirely without loyalty, DNA, stasis or any other such nonsense. I'm fully aware that I don't have to use a Kubrow if I hate the mechanics involved, but just because they're optional doesn't mean they should have to be such a pain in the neck. Edited July 31, 2014 by Berserkerkitten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mak_Gohae Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 name them, i play and have played a ton of f2p and p2p mmo games rpg/fps/space shooter/simulation/strategy, nowhere have i seen a mechanic like the kubrows. seems more like something that belongs in a facebook game not a 3rd person co-op shooter. If you never heard of the renting mechanic you have not played a ton of F2P games. Can you buy levels in other games? Did you have to play for xx number of hours with this weapon before you can rent an extra clip? And then if you don't play everything youve worked for, not paid for, plus those you've paid for is gone? I guess the migration to PWE is real for warframe. Yes some of the renting games dont let you rent stuff until you reach a certain level. Because people generally pay plat to get away from the RNG. Sorry, but it's not the player's fault the imprint system is half-baked, unreliable, and fails to disclose vital information a breeder needs to make informed choices (e.g. what the game considers a dominant trait and therefor what'll be passed on to the offspring). And to nip the "oh, but we're supposed to experiment to find out" excuse in the bud, the two imprint limit per-doge means we can't really do so since we can't reliably replicate results to determine which traits are actually inheritable and which ones were simply granted via RNG. It's a cosmetic. and, btw, when that system was up you could STILL buy the color you wanted from other people. Like i said, what the complaining did is lock out it out for folks that dont have hundreds of plat to pay for color. "Other games do it" doesn't make it right. Stop using another games as an excuse. I started playing Warframe because it didn't have any of that bullcrap. Stop trying to make Warframe the beacon of hope you want to use to change the video game industry with. This is the first F2P game from DE, they are not going to do experimental stuff to see how it goes when they dont have a publisher and they money they are using to build this game is coming directly from the players. You go do this with SOE or Nexon, those folks have been at it for a while and can experiment. Then if you win you can come back here and ask for a change. Using busted @$$ mechanics from a mmo released fully a decade ago, and were then subsequently patched out because they were BS, is not really helping your argument that any of the current kubrow mechanics are well thought out. I used Wow as an example because this is the a game that a lot of players would have likely played. And they took out feeding? So how do you boost damage for pets now? Is it always at max? I don't think it is really fair to compare the Kubrow to the pet system in WoW as the one in WoW is actually better thought out. It isn't ridiculously expensive to feed a pet. Generally you can buy enough food to keep a pet fed for quite a while with a small amount of silver or copper. In future patches they made it so that you should be using appropriate level food, but the cost of the food scaled with your level. So you weren't stuck paying for level 60 food at level 10 (which is pretty much equivalent to what Kubrow upkeep is currently like). Weapon renting is a terrible mechanic and I probably wouldn't be playing Warframe if it was built on a system of renting progress. It was always level appropriate food and it was always expensive/ annoying when it got to the higher levels, because the food per piece was a lot of cash and didnt last as long as food did on the lower levels. So either you needed to make a lot of money or you needed to spend a lot of time farming the requirements. And lets not forget that as a hunter you basically lost one bag because you had to use it to bring food for your pet. Which was the reason a lot of people use certain pets that could eat any food type, cause it was easier to maintain. They just killed something and if that could be eaten drop it went straight to the pet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furyion Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 stasis is the drawback ..its not stasis its self but its time .. its function ..is bad, have to agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notionphil Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Stop trying to make Warframe the beacon of hope you want to use to change the video game industry with. Like countless other poor gameplay mechanics that slipped into WF (via oversight or intent), Kubrow-gate will be fixed. And as usual, the "deal with it" squad will again, be on the wrong side of history. DE pushes the limits to see what their playerbase will put up with. That's fine. If you like day-old bologna, go ahead and eat it. But I won't when I know there's a filet mignon in the kitchen with my name on it. Warframe IS an industry changing game, and it does have potential for greater. DE made it that way, not us. We're just here to give them feedback, ideas and buy plat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liminal Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 (edited) Stop trying to make Warframe the beacon of hope you want to use to change the video game industry with. This is the first F2P game from DE, they are not going to do experimental stuff to see how it goes when they dont have a publisher and they money they are using to build this game is coming directly from the players. You go do this with SOE or Nexon, those folks have been at it for a while and can experiment. Then if you win you can come back here and ask for a change. I didn't. I simply said an "argumentum ad populum" isn't valid (and it isn't), and that I started playing this precisely because it was different. How is keeping doing what you've been doing from the start an experiment? No, the experiment is this Kubrow mess. Edited July 31, 2014 by The_Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mak_Gohae Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 (edited) Like countless other poor gameplay mechanics that slipped into WF (via oversight or intent), Kubrow-gate will be fixed. And as usual, the "deal with it" squad will again, be on the wrong side of history. DE pushes the limits to see what their playerbase will put up with. That's fine. If you like day-old bologna, go ahead and eat it. But I won't when I know there's a filet mignon in the kitchen with my name on it. Warframe IS an industry changing game, and it does have potential for greater. DE made it that way, not us. We're just here to give them feedback, ideas and buy plat. What's Kubrow-gate? What's the wrong side of history, and again? What does "industry changing" about it? The only thing they did that's THAT special is being an actual gaming company using crowd sourcing instead of a bunch of people that just created a company for the game. I didn't. I simply said an an "argumentum ad populum" isn't valid (and it isn't), and that I started playing this precisely because it was different. How is keeping doing what you've been doing from the start an experiment? No, the experiment is this Kubrow mess. Until a new method is created that they like it is valid. DE doesnt read minds, they are not going to simply create systems based on nothing out of thin air because some people may not like X thing. I think what is worst is that idea that DE is being totally evil by creating these mechanics. They didnt, they are using what is in play in other games and adjusting it for them. You people are acting like they SPECIFICALLY created this thing just to screw everyone over. They didn't. This is an old mechanic that was done pretty good. I dont like the delay from statis but that was put in there because of players. Yes, because of players. A while ago people were complaining about Kubs replacing sentinels and they came up with this so you could still have sentinels in play. Now everyone is complaining that they cant use their dogs and ignore their sentinels. I dont know if its the same people but they are being attacking in all fronts. This is something that continuously happens here. People ask for something, it gets done, then they get super angry with the results. Edited July 31, 2014 by Mak_Gohae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CY13ERPUNK Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 +1 OP but this really should be merged with the kubrow megathread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kage2015 Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 3 hour,really,if i working,i nvr get use my kubrow :Dand just get complain by newbie clan member,what!? 100k x6,and only recover 40 % !? and he say alot !@#!@$@$ for me lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genclaymore Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Look like he be frozen forever, because no why i gonna unfroze him and throw 100k at 6 Dna things again and repeat. I got him to rank 30 where he be on display. The day those DNA become cheaper for the ammount they give you and or they remove the dna all together, is the day he be left out to defrost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zyion Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 It was always level appropriate food and it was always expensive/ annoying when it got to the higher levels, because the food per piece was a lot of cash and didnt last as long as food did on the lower levels. So either you needed to make a lot of money or you needed to spend a lot of time farming the requirements. And lets not forget that as a hunter you basically lost one bag because you had to use it to bring food for your pet. Which was the reason a lot of people use certain pets that could eat any food type, cause it was easier to maintain. They just killed something and if that could be eaten drop it went straight to the pet. I never said it was good system, i just said it was just more thought out. Yeah it was annoying to have devote space in a bag to feed a pet, but I really don't remember it being back-breakingly expensive. I remember repair and ammo costs being more of a pain then pet feeding. Besides, didn't they eventually start to improve the pet system so that it was more forgiving on your character's wallet? Wouldn't you want the exact same thing done here with the Kubrows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mak_Gohae Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I never said it was good system, i just said it was just more thought out. Yeah it was annoying to have devote space in a bag to feed a pet, but I really don't remember it being back-breakingly expensive. I remember repair and ammo costs being more of a pain then pet feeding. Besides, didn't they eventually start to improve the pet system so that it was more forgiving on your character's wallet? Wouldn't you want the exact same thing done here with the Kubrows? Did you have easy feeding pets or picky pets? Cause i went for rare pets that were picky and only had one or two food types that they could eat and they were annoying. I dont find anything in the system currently that hurts my wallet. I could make 100k in an hour of playtime easy from void missions and DS missions. Doing the Invasion missions with 35k rewards will also help with that. Plat for rushing has always been in the game and it's the cheapest so far, 15p is the most you pay for and you can get that quick selling a few mods. I dont mind the growing of the pets because i am not antsy about it. The wait time for stasis i already explained, i dont like it but this system was put in play because of Sentinel folks. Not being able to get rid of your a dog you dont want is weird but i think that was done to stop people from just using the Kubs as a money making scheme. Pay 10 for an egg, 15 to rush the egg, get the genes, erase the dog, sell them for 50, profit. And people are still doing this anyway, they just make the prints more expensive because of the 10p from the stasis slot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zyion Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Did you have easy feeding pets or picky pets? Cause i went for rare pets that were picky and only had one or two food types that they could eat and they were annoying. I generally used pets that had fish on their diet because you could go fishing almost anywhere there's water. Although my favorite type of pet was the wolf. And if I was short on cash or meat I usually left it in the Stable. I dont find anything in the system currently that hurts my wallet. I could make 100k in an hour of playtime easy from void missions and DS missions. Doing the Invasion missions with 35k rewards will also help with that. And there lies part of the problem. People say that it is really easy to pay it if you do a specific really high level content thing for an hour. Wouldn't it be better to base the system off of something that doesn't require you to grind a specific thing in order to pay for it? I'm at Mastery Rank 16, and I find the prospect of having to grind a specific mission for credits not only dull, but a waste of my time. I maybe play for a few hours a day and I'd much rather spend that time doing something fun then grinding content that I don't necessarily want to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mak_Gohae Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I generally used pets that had fish on their diet because you could go fishing almost anywhere there's water. Although my favorite type of pet was the wolf. And if I was short on cash or meat I usually left it in the Stable. Yeah, fish and meat were easy but fruits and cheese were harder. And there lies part of the problem. People say that it is really easy to pay it if you do a specific really high level content thing for an hour. Wouldn't it be better to base the system off of something that doesn't require you to grind a specific thing in order to pay for it? I'm at Mastery Rank 16, and I find the prospect of having to grind a specific mission for credits not only dull, but a waste of my time. I maybe play for a few hours a day and I'd much rather spend that time doing something fun then grinding content that I don't necessarily want to do. One hour a week is too much? Dont you play those missions normally anyway? I dont care about cash because im still trying to get a few prime items so i am doing those missions anyway. If you barely play the game this is one of the drawbacks of this type of stuff but the mechanic is not build for folks like you. It sucks but that's just the way it is. The reason i am still missing a lot of prime stuff is because i cant repeat those missions that much either but the handful of times i play those missions a week is enough for the cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zyion Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 One hour a week is too much? Dont you play those missions normally anyway? I dont care about cash because im still trying to get a few prime items so i am doing those missions anyway. If you barely play the game this is one of the drawbacks of this type of stuff but the mechanic is not build for folks like you. It sucks but that's just the way it is. The reason i am still missing a lot of prime stuff is because i cant repeat those missions that much either but the handful of times i play those missions a week is enough for the cash. I personally much rather spend that time helping a friend get an item they want, or form of group with people to see how far we can go in a survival/defense mission, or (thanks to the new boss scaling) take on an old boss with a group of friends in max level gear. And I do those things cause that's what I find fun. I want to use the new Kubrows because I find them interesting, and I see the possibility of them being a new source of fun. But because I don't have the dedication to grinding like I used to, I'm suddenly denied the chance to use one? It seems more like a way to pander to a specific group of people then to make a mechanic that can be fun for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liminal Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 You people are acting like they SPECIFICALLY created this thing just to screw everyone over. Nah, I'm acting like they didn't think this through and completely diverted from their previous MO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth00 Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Ironic... you have over a million credits... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notionphil Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 It sucks but that's just the way it is. More like "that's just the way it is right now". However, DE will read feedback and can rethink it, much like they did with the scrambler. The interaction between stasis+upkeep+permadeath+slots was out of character for WF, and has a chance to reduce the massive effort they put into Kubrows into a gimmick that few players will actively engage with over time. It wasn't a mistake, it was a test. Like Loki P's argon cost. "Let's see how far we can go". There's nothing wrong with that, but there's also no reason to players to defend decisions that make WF less fun and more of a chore. I'm sure some defenders rushed to the aid of Loki's argon cost too, just like they did to the scrambler, and now stasis and slots...sigh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jokubas Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 (edited) I just found out a few minutes ago that your Kubrow could die, by having it happen. I knew the DNA degredation thing existed, but I assumed it would just bottom out at a debuff because I swear the wiki didn't mention death when I last looked up Kubrows, and the game sure doesn't. Kubrows definitely do not seem to be worth the effort put into them. I haven't even been playing because I've been taking a break, and it just dies on me. I didn't put it in stasis because I assumed that was for switching out Kubrow, since the game never told me he could die. Plus, it seems pretty disturbing that the heroic Tenno massacre a bunch of Kubrow, steal their eggs, and then mutate them into horrible clones that die in a matter of days without constant maintenance. People don't like their games feeling like jobs, even worse when failing at that job guilts you by killing your companion. This is not cool as a mechanic, and not particularly sensible marketing either. As long as Kubrow can die, I know I'm not putting any money into them, in-game or otherwise. I don't mind some sort of upkeep for a buff (although I still don't think it should degrade while not playing), but upkeep-or-die is just not cool. Edited August 1, 2014 by Jokubas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReiganCross Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Ironic... you have over a million credits... It just illustrates the point of "It's not about the money" doesn't it? The fact that a dude with 1.2mil on Creds lost his Kubrow because he got a little careless... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taranis49 Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 (edited) Stop expecting a sentinel. Superior performance requires higher upkeep. Logical rules of the game. Which is why it's necessary to maintain your top-tier weapons and frames or permanently lose them, but not a Mk-1 Braton and Lato. Ditto for say your maxed rank 10 mods, but not their unranked counterparts... Oh wait, it's not and never has been, atleast since I started in U7. And for good reason. By its nature, a "logical rule" can't be inconsistently applied, otherwise it's anything but. Edited August 1, 2014 by Taranis49 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latronico Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Smajdor, my dear, you're completely right. I don't like the DNA matter too. I could understand to have DNA stabilizers for Plats, but what's the point in selling them for credits?! As I said before, I hope Warframe will not turn into a S#&$ty F2P RPG like all the others, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pbrandon1 Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 This is another problem that DE dug themselves into by making everything being able to be bought on the Market. Should have just had customization and make money off that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herodeath99 Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Ironic... you have over a million credits... actually if you go back a few days you can see this is a screenshot from my game this guy just used it im asuming after the PSA i posted on reddit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herodeath99 Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 It just illustrates the point of "It's not about the money" doesn't it? The fact that a dude with 1.2mil on Creds lost his Kubrow because he got a little careless... actually i got my kubrow the second day U14 was released i didnt know about this mechanic took a break from the game to play CS came back saw this and posted it on reddit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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