Giving Primes More Powerful/different Abilities That Still Keep The Theme Of That Skill

[Pbrandon1]

PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE POST!

 

Ok, not that many people agree with giving primes more powerful abilities then the original's as they would think that they would be just better versions of them...and I mean, they kinda are still, they just give you small boosts but still an upgrade although small. BUT! If handled correctly, then you could have them Warframes with dangerous powerful enemies but not be direct upgrades to their originals.

 

What I had in mind is to have primes abilities be casted differently, have a longer cast time, but be quite powerful. 

 

It made me wonder why we have these powerful frames that we farm for in the Orokin that got decked out but were never upgraded to make their skills more powerful...

 

Now, you maybe confused right now, don't worry, I do that alot but let me give you a few examples.

 

Rhino Prime:

Rhino in general is op to the max, and Rhino Prime is basically even greater so I decided to dig down deep and take in what Rhino was suppose to be in a balanced fashion...hopefully.

 

Rhino Charge(Bull Charge)- Rhino Charge will be replaced with Bull Charge which will have Rhino first start out kicking up his feet much like a bull three times then he will place his arm over his head and charge head first, running into the crowd of people. Anybody caught in this monster's wrath will suffer severe damage and any of those who live will suffer a knockdown. At the end of the ability, Rhino will uppercut anybody that is nearby into the air.

 

You can control where Rhino goes as he charges forward into the crowd and while he is charging will receive a decrease in damage. To counter-act how powerful this ability is, the casting time will be slow and his charge won't be that quick. 

 

Power Range mods will cause Rhino to be able to hit more people nearby as he is charging.

 

Iron Skin(Steel or Diamond Coat)- Iron Skin will now be replaced with Steel Coat which will cause Rhino to harden his skin to the strength of Steel or Diamond(depending on those who say that it's impossible for that to work when Steel isn't that strong or Diamond) making him invincible for a short period of time and people that inflict damage on him will be reflected back, but will cause Rhino to be reduced to walking. 

 

The animation will be much like that person from X-men where his body will slowly cover in Steel or have it where it's like Iron Skin but the covering grows from his body slowly.

 

This mod can only be effected by a Power Duration Mod that at it's max can make him last for 10 or 15 seconds.

 

In Pvp, this will be balanced where he receives a large damage reduction but not sheer invincibility or keep the same effects since he is being reduced to a walk.

 

Roar(Screech)- Rhino will amplify his voice to a screeching sound, causing enemies to be stunned while also giving a buff to armor to himself and his allies. The animation will have Rhino set up for his Screech by turning his head to the left and then screaming while moving his head slowly to the right. With this, it will at least make the slow casting time for his other abilities with an ability that will help reduce the damage he takes while he casts the others.

 

Rhino Stomp(Aerial Slam or Rhino Slam)- Rhino will charge his right fist with tons of energy then slam his fist into the ground, causing enemies to be shot high into the the air and then fall hard into the ground, receiving damage. The ability will be casted slowly while the animation of him looking at his energy and then slamming his fist into ground slowly. Enemies will have to recover from it much like a knockdown.

 

This would kinda get rid of the utility but give him a high damage ability while providing a bit of utility since enemies have to recover from knockdown.

 

Frost Prime:

 

Frost at the moment, isn't that appreciated due to how people think most of his abilities are useless and his Snow Globe gets in the way, so I decided to make Frost Prime be a great frame, while also providing skills that don't overshadow his former character.

 

Charged Freeze(Freeze)- Charged Freeze will replace Freeze and the ability will be where Frost will charge up his frozen energy blast, causing it to shoot through enemies while freezing them. 

 

Charged Freeze will not be able to do damage like the original ability, will have an animation of him charging up his shot similar to the one shown in The Call trailer when Frost freezes Vor with a charged shot and only go through one direction. With this ability it will  probably  have 1.0 second timer or less due to all the disadvantages...but I will think on it.

 

Frost ability does not get shut out since Frost Prime has to charge his ability while Frost can continually spam Freeze easily. 

 

Ice Spikes(Ice Wave)- Ice Wave will be replaced with the ability named Ice Spikes which launches Frozen spikes from the ground, into the air, dealing massive damage. The animation will be Frost slamming both of his palms into the ground and then having three spikes shoot up in front of him one at a time. So the first one will show up, then after a little bit of time, the next one will appear in front of the first one and the third one will follow the same process. This ability will be able to do Slash damage and Frozen Damage..the reason Slash so that we can get the feeling of them being ripped apart by the Spikes.

 

Power Range mods will extend the length and with of the spike.

 

The animation will be slow like always, but will still do tons of damage.

 

This ability will not cast out Ice Wave as it will take some time to cast while Ice Wave can be casted constantly and also have the ability to cause enemies to slow down, giving you some breathing room for chasing enemies. Also, Ice Wave will be able to deal decent damage too.

 

Igloo(Snow Globe)- Snow Globe will be replaced with Igloo which is an ability that will cause Frost to freeze the air around him to create a solid barrier that can block damage from the outside and cannot be broken. It will also allow for the ability for it to be shot through but you can only create 1 or 2 depending on the balance..they can't be close together and they can only be entered through one way(or Two.) 

 

Frost will be shown jumping up into the air and then shown turning around and freezing the air around him until he creates a solid barrier, then he will drop down.

 

This ability does not cast out Frost Snow Globe as Frost can create multiple of them and they can slow down enemies while being able to be shot through.

 

In Pvp, only one will be allowed to be created.

 

Avalanche(Spike Shot)- Avalanche will be replaced with Spike Shot which will have Frost Ice Spikes rise up from the ground...if you want style points or have him freeze the air to create spike 2 spikes, then launch them at his enemies.

 

The animation will have Frost rise his arms in an ( {- -}) shape like that, freezing the air, creating the spikes, then after a bit of time, he launches them. You can move around while the animation is going so that you can get the aim in but once he sets up for launch, you can't aim anymore.

 

With Power Efficiency mods, you can increase the amount up to four and Power range mods will increase the size of the spikes.  

 

This ability will not cast out avalanche since Avalanche will cover more area then the ability. It can instantly be triggered and can also cause enemies to be frozen while they are in range of the attack and deal damage.

 

 

With these abilities, I can think we can effectively create the original frames be used for beginners but still be viable in end-game while the Primes will be for advanced players that can time their attacks and plan them out accordingly. 

 

Leave feedback on what you think and thank you.(Please be constructive feedback as well so they abilities can be balanced around, also I would love for someone to provide stats with this as this can help see this view better).

Edited August 1, 2014 by Pbrandon1

[vaugahn]

No. Primes frames are a status symbol, meant to show effort and dedication. Giving them any sort of advantage over their normal counterpart would cause problems, especially when we have very few prime frames currently available. 

[Nero9937]

Maybe ONE of those per prime would be fair, IMO

[Pbrandon1]

No. Primes frames are a status symbol, meant to show effort and dedication. Giving them any sort of advantage over their normal counterpart would cause problems, especially when we have very few prime frames currently available. 

Did you read the example I gave or did you just skip the entire thing and gave your post?

[vaugahn]

Did you read the example I gave or did you just skip the entire thing and gave your post?

 

I read all the way through. All of the abilities you gave are more powerful than rhino's default abilities. 

 

A prime cosmetic look for prime abilities would be cool, but give them any real advantage over their non-prime counterparts and you'd basically make it so people feel like they have to farm for primes and have to play primes or else they're at a disadvantage. 

[Whytee]

You should have titled this thread 'Give Primes Alternate Abilities'.

[Renegade343]

I read all the way through. All of the abilities you gave are more powerful than rhino's default abilities. 

 

A prime cosmetic look for prime abilities would be cool, but give them any real advantage over their non-prime counterparts and you'd basically make it so people feel like they have to farm for primes and have to play primes or else they're at a disadvantage. 

I think a small (very small) buff for Prime Warframes would be acceptable though.

[Saravind]

nope.... plain simply nope.jpg..........

 

yes read your examples

[vaugahn]

I think a small (very small) buff for Prime Warframes would be acceptable though.

 

In a similar vein to the buffs they have now, yes. Anything more, no.

 

I don't like how loki prime looks but I like playing loki, I don't feel like I'm punished for not using his prime. This is how it should be, at least for frames. Weapons are a different story. 

[Whytee]

I read all the way through. All of the abilities you gave are more powerful than rhino's default abilities. 

 

A prime cosmetic look for prime abilities would be cool, but give them any real advantage over their non-prime counterparts and you'd basically make it so people feel like they have to farm for primes and have to play primes or else they're at a disadvantage. 

 

The difference is, Rhino comes from the second planet that new players have access to. It's usually the first frame to be built and is easy to farm.

 

Rhino Prime comes from countless hours of farming void missions (or bought with plat).

 

If someone puts in a lot of effort to obtain it, why not reward that effort?

[Renegade343]

In a similar vein to the buffs they have now, yes. Anything more, no.

That means I have something in mind. Hold on. 

[Celle-Reveris]

I also read the entire OP, going to have to stick with giving prime abilities aesthetic differences and nothing else- God knows the fact that they'll have small stat boosts over their originals ruffled enough feathers.

[Renegade343]

The difference is, Rhino comes from the second planet that new players have access to. It's usually the first frame to be built and is easy to farm.

 

Rhino Prime comes from countless hours of farming void missions (or bought with plat).

 

If someone puts in a lot of effort to obtain it, why not reward that effort?

The only flaw in your argument is 'bought with plat'. 

 

Besides, there has been a small uproar over Rhino Prime having a 1.0 sprint speed, so having more stronger abilities for Primes will divide the house. 

[TheStag]

Loki Prime decoy has Lex Prime.

You are late.

[vaugahn]

The difference is, Rhino comes from the second planet that new players have access to. It's usually the first frame to be built and is easy to farm.

 

Rhino Prime comes from countless hours of farming void missions (or bought with plat).

 

If someone puts in a lot of effort to obtain it, why not reward that effort?

 

Refer to "status symbol". Having a prime shows that you know what you're doing, or at the very least have money to throw around. Unlike prime weapons they're not a direct upgrade, more of a very slight sidegrade. You know, like those super expensive gold iphones with the extra-nice cameras. 

[Pbrandon1]

I read all the way through. All of the abilities you gave are more powerful than rhino's default abilities. 

 

A prime cosmetic look for prime abilities would be cool, but give them any real advantage over their non-prime counterparts and you'd basically make it so people feel like they have to farm for primes and have to play primes or else they're at a disadvantage. 

Yes, they are powerful but are not casting the frame into the darkness.

 

Rhino Charge- An ability that can be performed quickly and spammed while giving decent damage.

Bull Charge- A slow ability that has a long cast time and a bit of a slow charge as he charges but provides tons of damage.

 

Iron Skin- Can be used to be invincible until it gets shot off and take no speed decreases, you can still move at fast speeds.

Steel Coat or Diamond Coat- Can be used to be invincible and have damage reflected back for a short amount of time and have it not be shot off but reduced to walking speed.

 

Roar- Gives a buff to damage

Screech- Gives a buff to Armor

 

Rhino Stomp- Stomps people in the air, having them effectively stunned in the air while you can shoot at them

Rhino Slam- Slams people in the air then having them fall back down, taking damage.

 

Now, how does this cast Rhino out into uselesness?

 

You could still use Rhino without it feeling useless because you have faster abilities with decent damage while the other have slower abilities with more damage.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Pbrandon1

[vaugahn]

-snip-

 

"more damage"

"invincible"

 

What would be the point of taking regular rhino anywhere when you can do that stuff? Ultimate cryopod defense, rez your friends while tanking a group of heavy gunners, damage on the end of your CC, stuff like that.

 

A prime visual update for prime abilities would be nice, this would not. 

[Whytee]

The only flaw in your argument is 'bought with plat'. 

 

Besides, there has been a small uproar over Rhino Prime having a 1.0 sprint speed, so having more stronger abilities for Primes will divide the house. 

 

Flaw?

 

Everything can be bought with plat. 

 

Take prime weapons for example. I buy a Boltor prime with plat, which is a direct upgrade to the standard Boltor. How is that any different?

[Goodking]

There already are slight differences between primes and normal warframes, but it's true that prime warframes are mainly status symbols.

 

The Aerial Slam or Rhino slam that you listed there really reminds me of the Radial Blast that Rhino once had (before being replaced by Roar). It dealt 1000 damage, and enemies had to get up from knockback. The Steel or Diamond Coat's temporary invincibility also reminded me of the old Iron Skin ability before it was changed to the way it is now. 

 

Many people wouldn't want Primes to have stronger abilities.

 

I don't find that Rhino is that much OP, especially against enemies above level 40.  I actually think that Roar could use either an energy cost decrease, or a slight buff. 

 

Changing all of Rhino's skills to those of Rhino Prime could demand a whole playstyle change for those who just want a primed Rhino too.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Goodking

[Pbrandon1]

"more damage"

"invincible"

 

What would be the point of taking regular rhino anywhere when you can do that stuff? Ultimate cryopod defense, rez your friends while tanking a group of heavy gunners, damage on the end of your CC, stuff like that.

 

A prime visual update for prime abilities would be nice, this would not. 

With Steel Coat, you are reduced to a slow walking speed..do you realize how that would be? You wouldn't be rezeing your buddies left and right because you would be moving pretty slow while trying to reach them, they probably might die. Plus, it takes time for it to cast so even if you decided to use it while you rez your teammates, it may take too long and your buddy might already be dead and even then, you still get debuffed in speed, so if he goes down quickly again, you might not make it.

 

With all his other abilities they give more damage but their cast times are slow. Rhino can do abilities much more quickly and provide decent damage. So while he may have more damage, he can't constantly spam his attacks like Rhino.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Pbrandon1

[Vitras]

I honestly would like prime frames to be different (not too much) but maybe just in the sense that some stats are boosted enough to make a slight difference. Having different abilities would maybe be going too far.

 

The way I'm thinking is if the prime weapons are upgrades of the originals (by being stronger, faster, etc.). So following that logic would say, yes, the prime frames should be better.

 

I think most people say no though is because they are a bit like DE. They don't want the familiar things to change. Which is why I feel this game is kinda doomed.

 

Edit: It's actually kinda funny, because I remember when the first couple of (free) primes came out people were a bit upset that the only advantage they had was looks and extra energy in the void. And now it's the opposite.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Vitras

[Renegade343]

Flaw?

 

Everything can be bought with plat. 

 

Take prime weapons for example. I buy a Boltor prime with plat, which is a direct upgrade to the standard Boltor. How is that any different?

Because the original Rhino can also be bought with Platinum, so your statement is flawed in that sense. 

[vaugahn]

With Steel Coat, you are reduced to a slow walking speed..do you realize how that would be? You wouldn't be rezeing your buddies left and right because you would be moving pretty slow while trying to reach them, they probably might die. Plus, it takes time for it to cast so even if you decided to use it while you rez your teammates, you still get debuffed in speed, so if he goes down quickly again, you might not make it.

 

With all his other abilities they give more damage but their cast times are slow. Rhino can do abilities much more quickly and provide decent damage. So while he may have more damage, he can't constantly spam his attacks like Rhino.

 

It's just not a good idea, sorry :/

 

Use forum search to look up the dozens of other threads just like this one and see the responses. There's no reason for prime frames to have any major difference except cosmetic over their normal version. It would discourage use of the normal version and promote sameyness, which are both things DE tries valiantly to avoid. 

 

I honestly would like prime frames to be different (not too much) but maybe just in the sense that some stats are boosted enough to make a slight difference. Having different abilities would maybe be going too far.

 

The way I'm thinking is if the prime weapons are upgrades of the originals (by being stronger, faster, etc.). So following that logic would say, yes, the prime frames should be better.

 

I think most people say no though is because they are a bit like DE. They don't want the familiar things to change. Which is why I feel this game is kinda doomed.

 

Edit: It's actually kinda funny, because I remember when the first couple of (free) primes came out people were a bit upset that the only advantage they had was looks and extra energy in the void. And now it's the opposite.

 

 

Great attitude mate. Our prime buffs are fine as is.

Edited August 1, 2014 by vaugahn

[Pbrandon1]

I honestly would like prime frames to be different (not too much) but maybe just in the sense that some stats are boosted enough to make a slight difference. Having different abilities would maybe be going too far.

 

The way I'm thinking is if the prime weapons are upgrades of the originals (by being stronger, faster, etc.). So following that logic would say, yes, the prime frames should be better.

 

I think most people say no though is because they are a bit like DE. They don't want the familiar things to change. Which is why I feel this game is kinda doomed.

I'm probably going to have to give more examples so that people understand that I don't want them to cast out the original warframe. I want them to be powerful skills but have downsides that will still make the original frame nice.

 

I'll probably touch Frost Prime since I already had a concept for him and maybe Ember as that would be nice for her too have.

[Whytee]

Because the original Rhino can also be bought with Platinum, so your statement is flawed in that sense. 

 

I'm not really sure what your point is, other than you're just reminding me that things can be bought with plat.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Whytee