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Expand Waypoints! Reply To Devstream.


Lactamid
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Edit: Version 2

Feedback: As a few of you pointed out the design of the initial radial WP/command-menu was a bit overcomplicated I've tried to work out something new.

Old menu concept.

Tiered menu

u4NlIgw.png

 

Auto-recognition.

The idea is to expand the communicative tools in Warframe and evolve the ones already present. Thus, having too many steps would only slow us down and possibly result in us using the old WP anyway. To evolve the regular WP more “auto-recognition” icons could be implemented, such as;

WP on resource - shows “resource icon” (possibly common/uncommon/rare – color?)

WP on “Friendship door” or other coop-device - shows “co-op icon”.  While this may seem unnecessary it can be a good way to inform a split up squad of where it is needed. Disappears if door is opened.

WP on an enemy – creates a enemy marker and also shows that enemy on the minimap – possibly with more detailed “icon” of what kind of enemy it is.

WP on mod – shows mod icon – possibly with rarity

 WP in elevator – shows a “elevator” icon.

WP on ally – shows wp with the color of the player who marked it.

See color coding further down.

 

Radial Menu.

This is a very basic idea but might be a bit closer to what one could “need”?

a8W367j.png

Tapping G would still create the normal “neutral” WP, but holding the key would bring up a radial menu letting you chose from a few options. This is a fast and clear way of communication and offers players of different languages a small bridge.

This is similar to the LoL menu suggested earlier, but with a few more options.

 

Automatic and “on spawn” minimap icons.

Automatic minimap icons could be things like “low health/ammo/energy” or player in control of objective. This could possibly go on the Z-menu info, but may also be of use here.

On spawn icons would be created when using certain things like Refills or when activating laser traps.

 

Color coding.

Each player would be given a color – this color would outline that players frame aswell as its avatar. The players WPs would also take on the same color. Players far away displayed as the "blue ghost" would also be outlined by this color to ease keeping track of them (Alt-version for colorblind?).

2cftojk.jpg

Concept by Llyssa.

 

Other:

Distance to WP - distance in M(eters) displayed next to WP.

Sound (not voice) on specific “WPs”?

Map “ping” on new WP? – blinking large icon.

 

Corelated:

Minimap showing different icons for:

Kubrow, Player

 Stationary “enemy” (camera/turret)/Grunt/Heavy/Air

Edited by Lactamid
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Was actually going to mention this, holding the waypoint button would bring up the more complex option, tapping it would be our usual waypoint :D

Yeah, like a "neutral" wp. And then you could go to some "themed" type of waypoints. Defend/attack/pickups/self/tactical - stealth/rush/what ever :P

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Interesting.

 

My one change would be colorcoding people with outlines, and then having that translate across. Base example:

2cftojk.jpg

And then, instead of having their waypoint be merely color coded, have it with the type color coding, with their color outlining it.

 

EDIT: This is very quick and dirty, will try to set up a better mockup, but this gives the base idea.

Edited by Llyssa
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Fantastic start to expand the idea. Kind of like the radial seen on PS4 for gear, but only if you hold on it.

 

Some issues might be with enemy markers. Mobile enemies would not allow for additional input due to them moving. Marking an enemy should remain the same but maybe give more data (overall health, name, level, distance). Maybe we can have rare resources (orokin cell, oxium, neurol sensors, etc.) have special auras like rare mods and bp drops so that they are markable.

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Interesting.

 

My one change would be colorcoding people with outlines, and then having that translate across. Base example:

Nice one! Makes for a good combo with icons too.

Edit: Would be nice to have those lines active on the "ghost" images we see when allies are far away too. That way you would know who is who.

Edited by Lactamid
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I wouldn't really care for a multilevel layout like the one pictured. If you're looking for a good example of how to do a small radial menu to quickly give your teammates the info they need, look at League's smart pings. Transferring that idea directly over to Warframe, you'd essentially press and hold G, then move your mouse in 4-6 directions (depending on how many different types of waypoints they want to include. For example: Up for 'everyone gather here.' Left for 'rare resource here.' Right for 'rare mod here.' Down for 'need help here.'

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I wouldn't really care for a multilevel layout like the one pictured. If you're looking for a good example of how to do a small radial menu to quickly give your teammates the info they need, look at League's smart pings. Transferring that idea directly over to Warframe, you'd essentially press and hold G, then move your mouse in 4-6 directions (depending on how many different types of waypoints they want to include. For example: Up for 'everyone gather here.' Left for 'rare resource here.' Right for 'rare mod here.' Down for 'need help here.'

While I'm all for simplicity and not adding things that we "don't need" I would hope for a streamlined menu.

The resource and mod WPs should therefor be "smart/automatic" = point at them and the game will recognize them and select the appropriate wp-icon.

The same could go for friendship-doors or other interactive things.

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This would definitely be a something welcoming to the PS4 community, but glad that the PC user base also wants this. I also love the color coordination for team mates and distance from waypoint.

I think the idea by Llyssa would open up for way faster communication and offer more control for players. Imagine you want to split up - you could just go "RB cap A" and the Red and Blue players could go capture A (interception). Now there would have to be something for the colorblind, but I still think this is a good idea.

You would also pretty much instantly know when a player had made a waypoint - same color on the waypoint as the outline.

There would also be less of a hassle to keep track of specific players - someone with low health/shields? Ok, that is the red player, now I know. Where is that nekros? - Oh he's blue, there he is...

Now who is down? Oh, yellow made a "heavy-enemy"-marker and she's down, good to know... (well...it could happen :P)

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It could be like that, or multilayered. I'm not the one deciding, just offering an idea. The simpler the better - just that one might need more options?

 

Well that one's obviously tooled for a different game, but I see what you're going for. A system like that would definitely be helpful for team coordination in pubs.

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Well that one's obviously tooled for a different game, but I see what you're going for. A system like that would definitely be helpful for team coordination in pubs.

Yeah, especially as this could be translated very easily to other players. If you type "help" or even say it on the mic, there might be other players that won't understand you. With this you could just use the "wp" and it will give you the "meaning" (like "midi" on for instruments) and it will be translated to which ever language the other players have selected as their game-language.

 

I get paired up with russian quite alot and as it's not even the same alphabet...I'm lost. This would offer some means of communication.

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Different color/icon for each player.

Radial menu or similar with direct translation to users selected language gives you a small way of communicate.

Edit: Just tapping G or what ever key/button could set the normal waypoint. But holding the key down would bring up a menu.

(Noveltyhero).

 

 

u4NlIgw.png

Now the menu would of course not have to look like this but perhaps it could be split into various "themes" like.

Self - Main: Help - 1. Require medical assistance (HP), 2 Require Ammo. 3. Require Energy 4. Require Stamina (Wait) 5. Follow me. 6. I'm Down.

Attack - Main: Mark enemy on map (tag) - 1. Take out this enemy (priority) 2. Mark for Stealth Kill. 3. Attack/take this possition.

Map - Main: Move here. - 1. Proceed Stealthy 2. Run. 3. Warning 4. Refill on the ground (ammo/HP/energy...)

Misc. Main: Yes/affirmative -  1. No  2. Follow me. 3. Reviving.

Defend - Main: Defend/hold this position. - 1. Gather up 2. Holding position

 

Perhaps the best way to go about this would be to have "smart" or "reactive" wps - pointing at an object would preselect a set of options (point at mod = make mod-wp, point at enemy = mark enemy *extra: mark for stealth kill/priority target/what ever, Friendship door = create "door-wp" )

Keeping the wp-menu as direct as possible will let us stay active and not fiddle around in menus. Still making it too simple will be as not having one. It's a balancing act that will have to be tested.

Examples:

 

Defend this location. - Sets a shield icon on the map.

Mark self - Need health/ammo/energy...aso - Sets a cross/ammo/energy-icon on self

Move here. - Arrow marker

Resource - when marking a resource with the regular WP (tapping) the game auto marks it with a resource icon

Mod (exists)

Wait. - Marks self with a clock icon

Warning. - Warning triangle icon (triangle with "!" inside)

Mark enemy - shows type. (grunt/heavy/air/special(vip) - or - specific enemy icon)

There are plenty of drops and if some can heal you they can check your status bar without you having to set a way point.

 

You aleady can mark an enemies. Info on what you marked is not needed because if it's marked it usualy means something bad such as stalker, G3 or zanuka.

 

Move here? a general way point does that. Specific things such as defend, sneak, attack etc are kind of obvious once you get to the way point. From the forums I've seen most people in-game dislike taking orders from other players, making specific way points are not going to help this. Not to mention the large amount of trolling a specific waypoint can cause.

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There are plenty of drops and if some can heal you they can check your status bar without you having to set a way point.

 

You aleady can mark an enemies. Info on what you marked is not needed because if it's marked it usualy means something bad such as stalker, G3 or zanuka.

 

Move here? a general way point does that. Specific things such as defend, sneak, attack etc are kind of obvious once you get to the way point. From the forums I've seen most people in-game dislike taking orders from other players, making specific way points are not going to help this. Not to mention the large amount of trolling a specific waypoint can cause.

Would you like there to be improvments on the existing auto-wps then?

How do you feel about color coding?

What is your take on mini-map info?

Is the distance meter a bad idea?

 

There are different types of players and some like the minimalistic style, others like options. Yes you could look at the hp-bar, but there could also be times when you fail to do so and another player calls on your attention. This also translates to any user selected langauge and is very easy to understand. Wps are a way of communicating with others - some people never have a problem with it - the "just avoid pugs" excuse is however a poor solution for those that don't have that option, or actually enjoys playing those games.

Some of the waypoint "descriptions" are mearly suggestions, the main idea is of course to keep it as simple as possible, yet offering clear communication.

You don't have to take orders, you could even say "no" if you'd like. Having the option to increase the teamwork this way is just an option, not mandatory. The old wps are there in the same way. If you want to use it it's there, if not, just dont.

 

As you mentioned - minibosses are a good "marking object". Some people might find it beneficial to mark them to keep track of them, others may use it to "sort" them - kill this one first - or what not. Perhaps it's not necessary? It's just an idea.

Marking a napalm making a "flame-icon" pop up on you otherwise blank map could however be kinda nice.

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While this is a little overcomplicated, having some different types of non-context waypoints would definitely be nice.

 

Things like "Loot here", "regroup here", "Require Immediate assistance here", and "Dropping refill here".

 

If it's too complicated, people will just use the default waypoint all the time. In my opinion, if you require it to be tiered like that, you have too many. 

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While this is a little overcomplicated, having some different types of non-context waypoints would definitely be nice.

 

Things like "Loot here", "regroup here", "Require Immediate assistance here", and "Dropping refill here".

 

If it's too complicated, people will just use the default waypoint all the time. In my opinion, if you require it to be tiered like that, you have too many. 

Good point, streamlining it would be benificial.

 

Then we'll just have to work on what should be in that menu, what could be solved in another way and what is unnecessary.

 

Neutral (move)

Warning "location" - Creates a "warning icon" at marker.

Need health/ammo/energy. - Marks a player with health/ammo/energy icon.

Defend/defending location - Creates a "defend" icon at marker.

 

WP auto recognition: resource, mod, other pickup, enemy (with info?), friendship door/coop device (if implemented), elevator.

 

Refill - on spawn - creates an icon on the map (possibly with amount of current charges/pulses/time- what ever they use).

 

Sound tied to wps?

 

A dual menu? IE. "Y" brings up menu, "shift+y" brings up optional menu.

Could be used for wps/commands like - defend this location / I'm defending this location.

Move here (normal wp) / Follow me.

 

anyways, ill work on it.

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I personally believe just doing as what I mentioned here https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/284688-identifiable-way-points/#entry3265402 would be more beneficial and realistic. We don't need complexity and sub menus of sub menus. All we need is the ability to see who marked what, and why.

 

A group up/defend sub menu would be nice, the other stuff isn't needed.

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I personally believe just doing as what I mentioned here https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/284688-identifiable-way-points/#entry3265402 would be more beneficial and realistic. We don't need complexity and sub menus of sub menus. All we need is the ability to see who marked what, and why.

 

A group up/defend sub menu would be nice, the other stuff isn't needed.

Er, you need to fix your link. ATM, it points to page 1 of this thread, to a post "yes, that would be appreciated".

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I'll be happy for any improvments. Personally I believe à radial menu could work well, also giving the bonus of being understood by all players and offering à small way of communication. But there are probably more ways that are good too. Color coding is one of the steps in the right direction. Expanded autodetection is another.

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