Thank You For Watching Devstream #34!

[[DE]Dorian]

Seriously?

Thoses division in 4 section is an error, plain and simple.

 

Before when I was fusing mods, and saw that I had too much of one mod, I could just sell it. Now I have to get out 2 times, select the other option, sell the mod(s), then get back to fusion.

 

It is EXACTLY the same problem thant the reste of the UI change: Console optimised, and a lot less practical.

Yes, it's true it is a lot nicer and cohesive compared to the older one, but stil...

 

And it seems the the mods re-design is going EXACTLY in the same direction. Great.

 

Yes, as you said, going back-and-forth is not entirely ideal, however, what is even less ideal and what has been a problem plaguing modding for the longest time, is users not even understanding the modding operations in the first place.

The changes have nothing to do with "console optimisation", and have everything to do with making modding more accessible to new users.

If you don't take part in modding because you don't know what it does, or how to do it, you're missing out on a massive part of the Warframe experience, so we deemed it incredibly important to try and simplify, and make each option a lot easier to digest, so that everybody, regardless of experience or skill level could be able to partake.

 

We found the splitting-up to be the best way to achieve this, as it gave us a lot more room to give each thing its own garden, and space where we could explain the things relevant to each operation, without adding in the noise of the others which the user might not even be interested in to begin with.

 

We will certainly continue working on "quality-of-life" improvements and adding those wherever we can moving forward though,

 

Thanks for watching the stream, and have a great weekend!

 

- Dorian

Edited August 2, 2014 by DEdorian

[_Raiklar_]

Speaking of modding. I've noticed that in the pre u14. While fusing, when you selected the installed option on your Frames, Weapons, And Sentinel. It would show you all the mods you had installed. Now it only shows you the ones that still need fusing. I like this Idea it cuts down on having to go through every Mod. However, now on Sentinel and Kubrow even though I know there are mods that still need upgrading this feature doesn't show any mods at all. So you have to go to the Sentinel section and go through every Mod and hope your fusing the right one if you have duplicats. Could you Please look into this.

 

                                                                                                                                                            Sincerly, Ookami Nihonto

 

 

P.S. I think I've solved your promblem with were to put your Quest.

       Put a Ui like the News, Hot fix, Prime access. On the other side of the cockpit

       make it like another terminal. But, have it just for Quest. You could even brake it down

       Into 3 areas. Completed Quest, Quest in Progress, and Pending Quest.

      That way Players would know that the had completed the quest and it

       Would do away with the confusion for the new players. Cause now You

       Don't really know that Quest is over or that you still have More stuff to

       do. With the way its set up now. The Kubrow quest for example

       Players think the once there Kubrow is matured their done. Yet they

       still have to do the defense to get their collar.

Edited August 2, 2014 by Ookami_Nihonto

[Liacu]

Yes, as you said, going back-and-forth is not entirely ideal, however, what is even less ideal and what has been a problem plaguing modding for the longest time, is users not even understanding the modding operations in the first place.

The changes have nothing to do with "console optimisation", and have everything to do with making modding more accessible to new users.

If you don't take part in modding because you don't know what it does, or how to do it, you're missing out on a massive part of the Warframe experience, so we deemed it incredibly important to try and simplify, and make each option a lot easier to digest, so that *everybody*, regardless of experience or skill level could be able to partake.

 

We found the splitting-up to be the best way to achieve this, as it gave us a lot more room to give each thing its own garden, and space where we could explain the things relevant to each operation, without adding in the noise of the others which the user might not even be interested in to begin with.

 

We will certainly continue working on "quality-of-life" improvements and adding those wherever we can moving forward though,

 

Thanks for watching the stream, and have a great weekend!

 

- Dorian

 I do agree with the splitting. Although it may be extra clicks for a veteran, I do think this will reduce the likelihood of a newbie unknowingly transmutating or selling their important mods. Say could you put in a few words about what direction you're taking with the Starchart? I felt like it didn't get enough said about even though it has the biggest impact out of all the U14 changes when it comes to the player experience. And one last thing, do you think mod descriptions, especially the ability mods, could be improved? It drives me nuts that I have to wiki all the warframe powers to get the nitty gritty details. (e.g, damage numbers, range, enemies affected, etc)

 

Thank you for all your hard work. I know it's probably very tough to be a game developer because of how asinine a community can be (Mass Effect 3, boy that was a thing) but there are many of us who appreciate the work and effort you put into the game!

Edited August 2, 2014 by Liacu

[Senketsu_]

I feel this example is blown way out of proportion.

 

 

Personally, I'm very prone to migraines; especially without excessive caffeine on any given day. However, I don't find it difficult to adapt to, even if numbers or information is slightly obstructed.

I agree I think people just dont want to adapt. 

[AZAG0TH]

We will certainly continue working on "quality-of-life" improvements and adding those wherever we can moving forward though,

 

Thanks for watching the stream, and have a great weekend!

 

- Dorian

 

Hi Dorian (and possibly Pablo?).  Honestly, the biggest Quality of Life improvement you can give many of us is an optional non-slanted flat UI in menus without a Warframe on the screen at all ASAP.  I know you've probably seen all the other posts about this (some of them mine) but I really can't play the game the way things are now.  I am sure I am not alone and if this really does take weeks to come about many of us are going to give up and move on.

 

The scale slider may fix the sway problem in mods/upgrades - but it won't fix the fact that I am already leaning into read the names of mods (and obviously their descriptions even moreso).  I did see the new mod tiles, but that's not going to do it for me.  I am playing at 1366x768 on a 37" monitor from 3 feet away and I am having trouble with the text at it's current resolution/scale - so to fix one problem (nausea from the sway) I have to make the text even harder for me to read - and all this so I can see a Warframe on the left side of the screen?  

 

Like someone said the other day in the UI thread, I don't understand why the UI is facing the warframe and not the player in these menus.

 

Please consider us and that we're not just complaining about change for the sake of it.  Many of us really can't continue playing the way things are now.  I am finding myself starting up other games and only logging in to Warframe to take care of my Extractors at this point.  As much as I enjoy the game the struggle and nausea I feel when trying to play is less and less worth it.

 

Thanks.

 

Edit- To those that are dismissive about this.  I am glad that you are fine with the UI and don't have the problems some of us do.  We are only looking for the option of flat menus.  You can continue using the UI as it is now and those of us who are having issues with the sway, slanted text and small text can go back to enjoying the game, not fighting it's menus.

Edited August 2, 2014 by AZAG0TH

[_Raiklar_]

Hi Dorian (and possibly Pablo?).  Honestly, the biggest Quality of Life improvement you can give many of us is an optional non-slanted flat UI in menus without a Warframe on the screen at all ASAP.  I know you've probably seen all the other posts about this (some of them mine) but I really can't play the game the way things are now.  I am sure I am not alone and if this really does take weeks to come about many of us are going to give up and move on.

 

The scale slider may fix the sway problem in mods/upgrades - but it won't fix the fact that I am already leaning into read the names of mods (and obviously their descriptions even moreso).  I did see the new mod tiles, but that's not going to do it for me.  I am playing at 1366x768 on a 37" monitor from 3 feet away and I am having trouble with the text at it's current resolution/scale - so to fix one problem (nausea from the sway) I have to make the text even harder for me to read - and all this so I can see a Warframe on the left side of the screen?  

 

Like someone said the other day in the UI thread, I don't understand why the UI is facing the warframe and not the player in these menus.

 

Please consider us and that we're not just complaining about change for the sake of it.  Many of us really can't continue playing the way things are now.  I am finding myself starting up other games and only logging in to Warframe to take care of my Extractors at this point.  As much as I enjoy the game the struggle and nausea I feel when trying to play is less and less worth it.

 

Thanks.

Another problem with the way it is now is that some frames especially Rhino with Edo armor on. It clips a portion of the interface and you can't use the drop down window. He does the samething while trying to right click to aim your primary and secondary weapons with the cross hairs.

[Airwolfen]

I feel this example is blown way out of proportion.

 

 

Personally, I'm very prone to migraines; especially without excessive caffeine on any given day. However, I don't find it difficult to adapt to, even if numbers or information is slightly obstructed.

Ok so I distorted it to far. However, your screenshot is hardly the bad part. You basically took the mod tab where the mods are biggest in size. And the worst part is the modding UI and not the browsing UI.

 

Try this one for size

 

So under the mod I selected You see energy siphon and the font is already distorted. Now think about the fix to lock the UI in pace. Yeah, it will become even smaller. Best fix ever. And they even said somewhere that it may take a few weeks to implement the scaling... Yeah defend that choice. Because I sure can't.

 

I agree I think people just dont want to adapt. 

Your car broke down, please adapt cuz we aint fixing it.

 

Seriously though. People report getting sick, Its even the reason they did not implement the sway on the arsenal as a worker of DE could not handle that one. And their fix wont be there for a few weeks. And even with that waiting time it feels like the fix will compromise other parts like some elements that are already to small for me an a standard 1080p monitor.

 

Back to the car thing. If your car broke down and they say they will need a few WEEKS to fix it. Would you not rather have that they actually fix it instead of using duct tape for a half @$$ fix that could spring a leak as you drive away?

 

This UI may look fancy, but in functionality this is a step back from the old UI. And the only defense I have seen from DE is that they like the fanciness of this UI so it stays. That is a broken reason in my book.

[Khunvyel]

I just watched the stream and... I don't know how I should feel.

 

There was zero mentioning of 4:3 support, and there were some arguments that tried to defend a considerably broken system at a rate that I completely and utterly fail to grasp.

You talk about "saving real estate" on mod cards, yet you completely blew it out of proportions on the Starmap. I cannot browse entire planets by dragging my mouse around, and I have to actually ROTATE the damn planet in the current UI to see all of the missions, and even get less information than before? What?

You ramble about how it is not as easy to remove the UI swaying, and talk about diegetic UI immersion and all the whole shebang... but completely disregard the fact that it would be a MASSIVE help already to get RID of the damn Warframe that clogs crucial parts of the view. Why would we want to see our Warframe in there? Why? Or rather, SO MUCH of it? We see it ALL the time when playing the game. In the Ship UI, it is just in the way.

The quickest thing you could do is put the Avatar into a FIXED position the moment you pressed the button to activate the related part of the Ship UI, so people don't need to crouch or wedge around. Seriously. But this hasn't come out in 13+ baby patches.

 

I'm not sure any more if I should blaze to get my 3 UI topics done and pump them out or should all just abandon it, as I've gotten the impression that getting through to Dorian and Pablo is incredibly difficult, even with the replies in this topic.

You've done some incredibly amazing things for the new UI and you've implemented some atrocious abominations. It is currently a love-hate relationship with the game. Perhaps I should have faith and just jump into the cold water with my things? I'm still unsure. Because the one thing that is forming the cold lump in my stomach is something I mentioned in the community hot topic from July 25th;

 

"Functionality & Accessibility must ALWAYS and UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE be more important than graphical fidelity and you failed extraordinarily hard on this principle."

 

I don't have a problem with new stuff by default. I don't have a problem adapting.

I do have a problem though with dealing with severe downgrades. I don't talk about dealing with bugs, what I mean are design principles that are the downgrades.

[aavvdkdk]

I think it's quite awesome and weird to hear Rebecca say that the UI is great for her, while it is absolutely terrible for me. Really shows the differences in players' preferences. For me the jumping and bobbing makes me sick, text and certain icons are too small, the whole mod section with weird/awkward lists of mods and unnecessary choices (fusing, selling and transmuting was available on the same page before)-> endless jumping between fusion and selling, the bright colour of the whole UI irritates me (same with the see-through), not being able to jump directly from starchart to mods is frustrating, the starchart is weird and time-wasting, selecting nodes is just plain annoying and the player ship makes me feel restricted and locked in. I guess I'm just too used to the old UI, but it's very difficult to get used to it since the UI makes me nauseous. U14 made me downgrade my Warframe playtime to just logging-in and getting potatoes. I just want to add that it's not all the UI, many of the other additions of U14 (kubrows, new dark sector) never interested me. This is purely my personal preferences, nothing DE can do about that. 

[Phyrosite]

I personally enjoy all the new ui systems theyve put in place. However my ony issue is sometimes the obstruction is overboard. I would like to see everything all at once. The sway doesnt bother me, and the obstruction doesnt really cause a huge issue, its just a quality of life thing.

EDIT: also will we be seeing more modules in the ship, like Inventory for example? The inventory feels sort of detached now.

Edited August 2, 2014 by Phyrosite

[Perfectionest]

I think it's quite awesome and weird to hear Rebecca say that the UI is great for her, while it is absolutely terrible for me. Really shows the differences in players' preferences. For me the jumping and bobbing makes me sick, text and certain icons are too small, the whole mod section with weird/awkward lists of mods and unnecessary choices (fusing, selling and transmuting was available on the same page before)-> endless jumping between fusion and selling, the bright colour of the whole UI irritates me (same with the see-through), not being able to jump directly from starchart to mods is frustrating, the starchart is weird and time-wasting, selecting nodes is just plain annoying and the player ship makes me feel restricted and locked in. I guess I'm just too used to the old UI, but it's very difficult to get used to it since the UI makes me nauseous. U14 made me downgrade my Warframe playtime to just logging-in and getting potatoes. I just want to add that it's not all the UI, many of the other additions of U14 (kubrows, new dark sector) never interested me. This is purely my personal preferences, nothing DE can do about that. 

 

I like the modern and fancier look in general, not having an issue with "jumping and bobbing" or getting sick (no idea how people manage to do that) randomly. I hope that text and other issues with size will be fixed with the new MOD design.

What I do dislike a lot is that the player has to click more, for almost anything, in comparison to earlier. It's somehow getting less practical and more of a pain to do things. I think that it is way more confusing at this point then it was earlier, even for players like me ~ let alone "Newbies" which this change is designed for.

 

Selecting Nodes is just horrible, it had 0 overview whatsoever - got somewhat better with the naming and resource indication. Still, it needs a function for dragging between planets, instead of exiting each planet.

 

Yeah, the ship - aside from it saying the same things all the time, and having a generic/boring sound to it, feels really like being cramped. 

Hopefully they will extend it in size.

[Krion112]

Yes, as you said, going back-and-forth is not entirely ideal, however, what is even less ideal and what has been a problem plaguing modding for the longest time, is users not even understanding the modding operations in the first place.

The changes have nothing to do with "console optimisation", and have everything to do with making modding more accessible to new users.

If you don't take part in modding because you don't know what it does, or how to do it, you're missing out on a massive part of the Warframe experience, so we deemed it incredibly important to try and simplify, and make each option a lot easier to digest, so that everybody, regardless of experience or skill level could be able to partake.

 

We found the splitting-up to be the best way to achieve this, as it gave us a lot more room to give each thing its own garden, and space where we could explain the things relevant to each operation, without adding in the noise of the others which the user might not even be interested in to begin with.

 

We will certainly continue working on "quality-of-life" improvements and adding those wherever we can moving forward though,

Maybe make shortcuts to each of the four spaces from the one you're currently in? As in, I go into Fusion, but a shortcut button to each of the other menus would be placed somewhere within this menu that would quickly move me out of this menu and into the next desired menu. This way, they are separated but also let players quickly move to the next area in one click instead of two.

[(PSN)SaiyanRatchet96]

FIX ALAD V ESCAPE MISSION ON PS4!!! :D

[Llyssa]

Yes, as you said, going back-and-forth is not entirely ideal, however, what is even less ideal and what has been a problem plaguing modding for the longest time, is users not even understanding the modding operations in the first place.

The changes have nothing to do with "console optimisation", and have everything to do with making modding more accessible to new users.

If you don't take part in modding because you don't know what it does, or how to do it, you're missing out on a massive part of the Warframe experience, so we deemed it incredibly important to try and simplify, and make each option a lot easier to digest, so that everybody, regardless of experience or skill level could be able to partake.

 

We found the splitting-up to be the best way to achieve this, as it gave us a lot more room to give each thing its own garden, and space where we could explain the things relevant to each operation, without adding in the noise of the others which the user might not even be interested in to begin with.

 

We will certainly continue working on "quality-of-life" improvements and adding those wherever we can moving forward though,

 

Thanks for watching the stream, and have a great weekend!

 

- Dorian

So give us a "pro" UI, one that can be unlocked by a special mission, and that the lotus warns us is "very advanced, but very powerful if you learn how to use it".

[KriLL3]

Yes, as you said, going back-and-forth is not entirely ideal, however, what is even less ideal and what has been a problem plaguing modding for the longest time, is users not even understanding the modding operations in the first place.

 

That requires a tutorial, not a inconvenient UI, if those 4 choices are shown like that after you install the mod fragment and explained properly the rest of us that knows how mods work wouldn't be inconvenienced by the current UI.

 

I like the approach of making things make sense for new players, but dumbing down the UI to the point where everything makes sense for new players has the downside of making the UI a lot less powerful for veterans, there has to be a middle ground or as said, temporary/optional tutorials/simplified versions of the UI.

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

This is the steviest it gets, I think:

EDIT: Well, it probably needs a coffee mug somewhere, and a beer, but... it's close.

Simply brilliant!

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

I only have an off topic comment, completely unrelated to the UI. Why aren't any of the popular other youtube reviewer channels in the "channels" section on your youtube page?

 

There are a bunch of official ones I can think of that are great but not there...

- Mogamu

- AGGP

- Calypso Gaming

- Potato Powered

- Original Wicked Fun

- Dogman Dan

 

Just to name a few. Thanks.

[Cryp2Nite]

If you don't take part in modding because you don't know what it does, or how to do it, you're missing out on a massive part of the Warframe experience, so we deemed it incredibly important to try and simplify, and make each option a lot easier to digest, so that everybody, regardless of experience or skill level could be able to partake.

 

Seriously? You think some newbs never get into modding because they don't understand the very difficult (/sarcasm) system?

I think you exaggerating a bit. Sure one can make a mistake or two, but once you find out what the buttons does...

And that "new player..." thing slowly makes me sick. I'm not a new player (spoiler!: and I'm not the only one), and I don't see why 

nearly every action in the menus now takes at least twice as long. And I don't see any reason for this whole Immersion vs.

ease of use thing. I'm pretty sure it can be both!

[(PSN)JIPIXXVIIII]

so my stream froze at just the right time for the longest time, i was looking at this beautiful face for like 10mins

 

[(PSN)JIPIXXVIIII]

so u r buityful l joilie demoiselle tu saura quand lira frogger ;}  dont whorry u r pretty 

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

How you can tell they're still not getting any sleep.

 

I can see that.

Edited August 3, 2014 by (PS4)GR13V4NC3

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

so my stream froze at just the right time for the longest time, i was looking at this beautiful face for like 10mins

 

Am I the only one that wants to put a Captain Morgan mustache on this pic?

[Avicou]

Am I the only one who heard Pablo insult the players who are getting motion sickness from the new UI? 

[Just4Games]

Am I the only one who heard Pablo insult the players who are getting motion sickness from the new UI? 

It's not a direct insult, but i think it is a bit.

 

ON: As Pablo said: "For those feeling motion sickness and migraines, we removed it from the arsenal because someone in the office said that it was bad.". So as i get it, if someone from your office says is bad, you change without asking the whole community (including us)?...

[AZAG0TH]

Please: Just add the option for a 1st person toggle to the menus already.  I can't imagine something like this would even take an hour to code.  You can then proceed to do all the tweaks you think 'might help' over the next few weeks but, in the meantime, people like myself can actually play the game again without feeling nauseous.  I've said it before - the only thing I am doing in game right now is taking care of extractors and I'm starting to get lazy about that as well.  Sooner or later I'm going to stop launching Warframe altogether.

 

I'm not playing.... If I, and other like me, are not playing we have no incentive to spend money.

 

 

[All the other arguments and reasoning don't seem to be working very fast, maybe that one will]

Edited August 4, 2014 by AZAG0TH