Dark Sector Conflicts: A Major Overhaul

[k8Faust]

I think it would take far too long to tweak and balance every ability, weapon, warframe, and mod to a point where DS Conflict PVP feels fair, which is the first step towards making it an enjoyable experience. So, I propose an overhaul:

• Every combatant could begin the match with fists only (as seen in the tutorial). They would be allowed to choose either one weapon, or all three weapons (either works for me) at the start. This can be done by making the initial spawn point a transport ship hovering above the battlefield, with a fully stocked armory housing weapons and possibly even warframes. Placing the spawn in a safer location keeps the one side from camping it, which is currently a huge issue. After completing their loadout, they are allowed to pass through the barrier leading outside the ship and to the battlefield. Weapons go up in level with the player and receive mods as they do now. All weapons should be pre-defined and not draw from a player's loadout. Players should be allowed to change weapons and warframes in the spawn.

• Levels should be capped at 30; there's no reason for this to be different than normal. At the start of a match, a player should be allowed one point to put in to any ability. Every 10 levels, a player is allowed another point to put in to a new ability, or power up an existing ability. At level 30, a player will have a total of four points to spend, enough to bring any ability to its maximum potential, or to have all four abilities. All abilities should be pre-modded/defined for balance. Players could gain one level every one to two minutes, and bonus points for kills and objectives allows a player to accelerate leveling.

• Energy should be replenished over time. This can be easily adjusted for balance and pacing. Health should regenerate outside of combat. Ammo should regenerate outside of combat (rate dependent on weapon).

• Respawn tickets should be removed. A timer is all that is really necessary; initial time could be 10 minutes, with every completed objective rewarding the attackers an extra 5 minutes. This completely sidesteps the current exploitation of leaving before dying, or worrying about dying too often when you're stuck in a match that's 1v4.

• Objectives should all/mostly be concurrent; any objective can be attacked at any time, some more difficult than others unless tackled one after the other. No objective should be able to be brute-forced (like the reactor objective). Not all objectives should be necessary; majority wins. Objectives should be allowed to be re-taken; this way, regardless of which side you fight for, you have the opportunity to play both offensively and defensively. Objective types can range from capture the flag (or data node... thing), king of the hill (Interception), VIP escort (like Rescue/Capture), objective delivery (Hijack), etc. There's no reason not to borrow from the many mission types already seen in Warframe, just so long as they aren't Survival, Defense, or Sabotage and such. Any damage done in a match counts towards the rail's health, though the fewer players there are in a match--average number of players during entirety of the match determines multiplier--the lower the damage. Thus, defenders want to mitigate as much damage as possible by holding as many objectives as they can until time runs out. As each objective is completed, perhaps the level of the AI units on the defensive side could gain a multiplier (e.g. +0.1x per objective).

• Maps should have a good mix of tight corridors and open areas, with multiple routes. Currently, the map is mostly open and feels quite empty and plain. They simply do not have any personality to them. Perhaps clans/alliances could be allowed to design their own Solar Rail layout.

• Perhaps use a standardized color scheme for warframes, so that they are more easily identifiable. Or, better yet, give each side its own flag worn on their back (like ye olde honorable samurai of yore). I feel that the glow, currently, is buggy and a real eyesore.

I think this would be far more enjoyable, especially for new players and even for veteran players. As a veteran player, the challenge of facing down other players is a welcome addition, but doing so on uneven footing completely ruins the experience. In my opinion, a much more homogenized and even playing field would make PVP in Dark Sectors--a competitive function that has lasting impact on the game--a far more enjoyable, fair, and less frustrating experience for all.

[Azawarau]

I dislike these ideas greatly...

[(PSN)Alphapsykongaroo]

yea also not liking these ideas. too many of these loadout suggestions lately.

Edited August 13, 2014 by -Himari-
Took out a quote that would more likely put someone down than add to the conversation.

[k8Faust]

I dislike these ideas greatly...

yea also not liking these ideas. too many of these narrowminded and bland pre defined loadout suggestions lately.

 

The pre-defined loadouts are there to establish a baseline, wherein balance can progress to a point where customized mod loadouts are possible without being absolutely and atrociously unbalanced; I highly dislike the idea of having to completely ignore Dark Sector conflicts due to imbalance, and a competitive gamer's inclination to use the most powerful builds available. Currently, I can run Ash and his Shuriken, and shut people down in one shot all day every day. So it gets nerfed, alongside everything else that is OP right now, but then something else takes its place and so on and so forth, and finally--after several months of nerfing and buffing everything under the sun for the sake of balance--we reach a point where Dark Sector conflicts are actually a fun PVP experience. Alternatively, they can just nerf everything to a point that seems the most balanced, then--after balancing custom loadouts and mods through Conclaves (which I'm sure the feedback for already exists)--they release the next step, with 100% more customization. Thus, DSC's become a fair and enjoyable experience first and foremost, and THEN we get the next step in its evolution.

 

I spent several hours fighting battles against four opponents by myself, getting spawn camped, getting slowed to a crawl by three different abilities (where's the variety? Why choose Vauban's Bastille over Frost's Snowglobe?), getting one-shot by weapons (how the heck can a Pyrana even do that?), joining matches that were pointlessly still in progress (seriously, 1/2 consoles capped in the first objective and only 10 tickets left?), sitting through a host change because the guy went down and didn't want to waste a ticket--who then rejoins not even a second later--meanwhile the guy I just downed is alive and well again, etc etc ad nauseam. Half-way through the ordeal, I said screw it and whipped out Ash/Shuriken and just dropped people with one shot per, then two shots per by the time I'm attacking the reactor.

 

There is a lot to fix, and I don't think a "slowly-but-surely" patch-to-patch approach to grinding out the issues inherent in the current setup is going to cut it for a competitive PVP mode that actually has influence on the gameplay (it could take a very long time). If they don't nerf PVP to a lowest-common-denominator to establish a baseline, then I'd rather go back to Sabotage for the time being. Honestly, I thought the whole reason Conclaves were introduced was so that Warframe could, eventually, introduce a better and--more importantly--balanced PVP mode. Yet, it isn't until now that we see any real progress being made towards balancing PVP, meanwhile we've abandoned the old system--which was at least fair, even if it was boring as piss all--and have to deal with an incredible amount of grief if we want to have any say in who gets which Dark Sector.

 

Hate on the "predefined" suggestion all you want, but PVP is no longer a small matter in regards to Warframe. At least with predefining, balance is much easier to achieve from the get-go, and focus can go from a massive list of small tweaks to flavor-of-the-month abilities and weapons to making DSC much more enjoyable.

[Cleesus]

I've been going back and forth on the idea of load outs myself and idk how I feel about it but it makes sense. Your idea of spawns is cool but people can camp where they get off the ship

[AlphaPsyCongaroo]

It's not our modded weapons that make ds unbalanced (with the exception of a few, such as explosives).

 

it's mostly the abilities like bladestorm, shurken, hysteria, etc, that are the source of unbalance. Therefore reworking a the pvp versions of those and adding cooldowns first would be a better solution, rather than replacing everything with a boring brainless default system.

 

Also of course, reflex guard, quick thinking, and rage are another big source of unbalance and those need a nerf or be disabled.

 

It wouldn't take several months to fix just those, as you say.

Edited August 4, 2014 by AlphaPsyCongaroo

[Azawarau]

The pre-defined loadouts are there to establish a baseline, wherein balance can progress to a point where customized mod loadouts are possible without being absolutely and atrociously unbalanced; I highly dislike the idea of having to completely ignore Dark Sector conflicts due to imbalance, and a competitive gamer's inclination to use the most powerful builds available. Currently, I can run Ash and his Shuriken, and shut people down in one shot all day every day. So it gets nerfed, alongside everything else that is OP right now, but then something else takes its place and so on and so forth, and finally--after several months of nerfing and buffing everything under the sun for the sake of balance--we reach a point where Dark Sector conflicts are actually a fun PVP experience. Alternatively, they can just nerf everything to a point that seems the most balanced, then--after balancing custom loadouts and mods through Conclaves (which I'm sure the feedback for already exists)--they release the next step, with 100% more customization. Thus, DSC's become a fair and enjoyable experience first and foremost, and THEN we get the next step in its evolution.

 

I spent several hours fighting battles against four opponents by myself, getting spawn camped, getting slowed to a crawl by three different abilities (where's the variety? Why choose Vauban's Bastille over Frost's Snowglobe?), getting one-shot by weapons (how the heck can a Pyrana even do that?), joining matches that were pointlessly still in progress (seriously, 1/2 consoles capped in the first objective and only 10 tickets left?), sitting through a host change because the guy went down and didn't want to waste a ticket--who then rejoins not even a second later--meanwhile the guy I just downed is alive and well again, etc etc ad nauseam. Half-way through the ordeal, I said screw it and whipped out Ash/Shuriken and just dropped people with one shot per, then two shots per by the time I'm attacking the reactor.

 

There is a lot to fix, and I don't think a "slowly-but-surely" patch-to-patch approach to grinding out the issues inherent in the current setup is going to cut it for a competitive PVP mode that actually has influence on the gameplay (it could take a very long time). If they don't nerf PVP to a lowest-common-denominator to establish a baseline, then I'd rather go back to Sabotage for the time being. Honestly, I thought the whole reason Conclaves were introduced was so that Warframe could, eventually, introduce a better and--more importantly--balanced PVP mode. Yet, it isn't until now that we see any real progress being made towards balancing PVP, meanwhile we've abandoned the old system--which was at least fair, even if it was boring as &!$$ all--and have to deal with an incredible amount of grief if we want to have any say in who gets which Dark Sector.

 

Hate on the "predefined" suggestion all you want, but PVP is no longer a small matter in regards to Warframe. At least with predefining, balance is much easier to achieve from the get-go, and focus can go from a massive list of small tweaks to flavor-of-the-month abilities and weapons to making DSC much more enjoyable.

Why woudnt you use the most powerful build available to defend yourself? That doesnt make you a competitive gamer

 

That just means youre trying to defend or win your node for your alliance

 

Do you really expect to be able to win a 4 on 1 battle so easily? Its 4 people who are trying to defend VS a single attacker

 

Of course youre going to lose out. Theres no reason to be sour about that

 

And i didnt say i hated anything but i do dislike your idea and im not the only one

 

Stop being sour

 

Your suggestion flopped so move on and quit embarrassing yourself

[k8Faust]

I've been going back and forth on the idea of load outs myself and idk how I feel about it but it makes sense. Your idea of spawns is cool but people can camp where they get off the ship

 

True, but it beats being attacked/downed before you even realize what's happening. If you can see the immediate area (where players might camp) and are safe from harm, then you can plan action and are much more capable of reacting. It would at least give folks a chance to amass/congregate and push as a group rather than being cut down one by one without being able to fight back.

 

It's not our modded weapons that make ds unbalanced (with the exception of a few, such as explosives).

 

it's mostly the abilities like bladestorm, shurken, hysteria, etc, that are the source of unbalance. Therefore reworking a the pvp versions of those and adding cooldowns first would be a better solution.

 

Also of course, reflex guard, quick thinking, and rage are another big source of unbalance and those need a nerf or be disabled.

 

It wouldn't take several months to fix just those, as you say.

 

Those are the problem abilities and mods for now, but what happens after those are nerfed (likely over-nerfed, as things usually are)? Historically speaking (as evidenced by countless other games as well), a new set of issues crop up because now they have room to expose themselves and to flourish. To be fair, I suppose one can't really say how long it would actually take to balance it all, considering Warframe is first-and-foremost a PVE game. Furthermore, the process of balancing, especially for PVP, is to nerf (rarely ever spot-on, so over-nerf or under-nerf), then tweak it again while nerfing another set of issues, and so on and so forth.

 

Most competitive PVP games start off at a point that is decently well balanced (at least, not glaringly broken), and then spend the next 6 to 12 months balancing. In my experience, it usually takes quite some time to properly balance for PVP. It could be that those are the only major issues that need correcting, but it could prove to be just the tip of the iceberg, so it could very well take longer than several months, or just a few months. It isn't too late to change the approach right now, and that's why I advocate for a much fairer baseline before we start down the road to balance.

 

#1 Why woudnt you use the most powerful build available to defend yourself? That doesnt make you a competitive gamer

 

#2 That just means youre trying to defend or win your node for your alliance

 

#3 Do you really expect to be able to win a 4 on 1 battle so easily? Its 4 people who are trying to defend VS a single attacker

 

#4 Of course youre going to lose out. Theres no reason to be sour about that

 

And i didnt say i hated anything but i do dislike your idea and im not the only one

 

Stop being sour

 

Your suggestion flopped so move on and quit embarrassing yourself

 

In regards to #1: Winning, in and of itself, is not a fun experience; the fun is in the challenge.

 

I don't quite get where you're going with #2, but I'll try to answer anyhow: Isn't the point of DSC to win the node for your alliance/clan of choice, even if you aren't a part of it? Furthermore, isn't playing a game supposed to be fun? Thus, is the point of playing Warframe and partaking in DSC to have fun and win the node for your chosen side?

 

#3: Of course I didn't expect to win easily, but I do expect to at least have a fair chance; why are four opponents joining so quickly and easily, when it's just myself? Why isn't it limited to a fair 1v1 until more people join? Should matchmaking not match one person to another, or one group to another, rather than just finding an open match and dumping people in it?

 

#4: I won almost half the time I was in a 1v4, so I'm not "sour" about losing. What DID concern me is that I could win a 1v4 due to OP abilities, stun-locking melee weapons, etc. I was also greatly frustrated with map and objective design, wherein the opposition could run through the spawn area and indefinitely replenish energy from a position behind our spawn, then spam both abilities and increasingly powerful weapons to lock us down and out of any hope of gaining energy. To clarify, that paragraph was an amalgam of issues not exclusive to a 1v4, which is what you seem to have interpreted it as. In summary, it is not the fact that I lost (or won), but the way in which it happened that is the problem.

 

It isn't just one suggestion that I've made here, but several suggestions regarding several facets of DSC. The suggestions range from removing energy beacons to providing safe areas for spawning. Even altering the fundamental design of the match itself; less focus on failure and success, and more focus on damage per effort, wherein time plays an important role so that matches do not drag on forever; a streamlining and rationalizing of back to back matches, whereby wave after wave of assault causes damage to the rail and culminates in the destruction of said rail, if successful, or the expiration of operational time, if unsuccessful.

 

So, I'm here--in my topic--to discuss the proposal and ideas that I've posed. If all you have to voice is your dislike, then I think the only person that needs to move on is you.

[Azawarau]

In regards to #1: Winning, in and of itself, is not a fun experience; the fun is in the challenge.

 

I don't quite get where you're going with #2, but I'll try to answer anyhow: Isn't the point of DSC to win the node for your alliance/clan of choice, even if you aren't a part of it? Furthermore, isn't playing a game supposed to be fun? Thus, is the point of playing Warframe and partaking in DSC to have fun and win the node for your chosen side?

 

#3: Of course I didn't expect to win easily, but I do expect to at least have a fair chance; why are four opponents joining so quickly and easily, when it's just myself? Why isn't it limited to a fair 1v1 until more people join? Should matchmaking not match one person to another, or one group to another, rather than just finding an open match and dumping people in it?

 

#4: I won almost half the time I was in a 1v4, so I'm not "sour" about losing. What DID concern me is that I could win a 1v4 due to OP abilities, stun-locking melee weapons, etc. I was also greatly frustrated with map and objective design, wherein the opposition could run through the spawn area and indefinitely replenish energy from a position behind our spawn, then spam both abilities and increasingly powerful weapons to lock us down and out of any hope of gaining energy. To clarify, that paragraph was an amalgam of issues not exclusive to a 1v4, which is what you seem to have interpreted it as. In summary, it is not the fact that I lost (or won), but the way in which it happened that is the problem.

 

It isn't just one suggestion that I've made here, but several suggestions regarding several facets of DSC. The suggestions range from removing energy beacons to providing safe areas for spawning. Even altering the fundamental design of the match itself; less focus on failure and success, and more focus on damage per effort, wherein time plays an important role so that matches do not drag on forever; a streamlining and rationalizing of back to back matches, whereby wave after wave of assault causes damage to the rail and culminates in the destruction of said rail, if successful, or the expiration of operational time, if unsuccessful.

 

So, I'm here--in my topic--to discuss the proposal and ideas that I've posed. If all you have to voice is your dislike, then I think the only person that needs to move on is you.

I said i dislike it and that was all

 

Youre taking it way personal when someone disagrees with you

 

I could write an award winning essay on why your ideas are bad but i wont

 

If i had said i like it and had no discussion afterwords you wouldnt have said a thing would you have? So the problem isnt whether or not i discuss anything as much as you not liking that someone doesnt like your ideas

 

Now if youre going to be productive thats fine but if your attitude stays sour like this dont expect a positive response from anyone

[k8Faust]

I said i dislike it and that was all

 

Youre taking it way personal when someone disagrees with you

 

I could write an award winning essay on why your ideas are bad but i wont

 

If i had said i like it and had no discussion afterwords you wouldnt have said a thing would you have? So the problem isnt whether or not i discuss anything as much as you not liking that someone doesnt like your ideas

 

Now if youre going to be productive thats fine but if your attitude stays sour like this dont expect a positive response from anyone

 

I replied to both you and the fellow after you initially. I provided further explanation on my stance, nothing more. You, who initially only said that you dislike the ideas, seem to be taking it quite personally, not I. I don't care if you can write more than paragraph or not, but discuss the topic or don't, rather than trying to come after me for simply expanding upon my original post.

 

If someone had said they liked it, but not provided further discussion, then there's really nowhere to go with that. If they provide further feedback, then I'm going to respond to that as well, as I already have. If someone says they dislike it, then the natural question is "why?" I've provided arguments defending my stance, as any debate does, in hopes of furthering the discussion instead of simply shutting down the discussion, which you seem intent on doing. I continue to attempt to be productive, yet it seems that you continually return here to simply tell me to stop posting. You refuse to provide any counter arguments to my post and insist on going after me instead. Your presence here has added nothing to the discussion, and you seem to only post for the sake of posting.

 

The problem isn't my dislike for opponents of my post, it is for those who add nothing to the discussion, as you continue to do. If you want to post something regarding the topic at hand beyond simply your dislike, then please do. Otherwise, stop posting here. It is pointless, and you are quickly becoming pointless as well.

 

From here on, I will ignore your posts if they do not add to the topic.

[Azawarau]

K lets make this short

 

Normalizing weapons is false balance

 

Changing weapons at spawn is abusable

 

Energy over time is extremely abusable

 

All objectives being reachable at any time promotes loki speed play to objectives and kills teamplay

 

Too many tight spaces = camping everywhere

[k8Faust]

K lets make this short

 

Normalizing weapons is false balance

 

Changing weapons at spawn is abusable

 

Energy over time is extremely abusable

 

All objectives being reachable at any time promotes loki speed play to objectives and kills teamplay

 

Too many tight spaces = camping everywhere

 

Normalization: Let's assume a few things here, considering what we know about the game's mechanics...

• Warframes and weapons are balanced for PVE; both are designed for power, but Warframes aren't very durable so as to preserve difficulty.

• Tenno technically are their own category of resistances, which is currently an amalgamation of existing resistances (Flesh, Ferrite, Alloy, etc.)

• DSCs have both PVE units and Tenno units (which can also be Specters)

Currently, in order to balance for damage against players (Tenno), damage and resistance must also be considered for mobs (inside or outside of PVP conflicts). This makes for a pretty big mess of numbers. If DSC PVP cannot be (or isn't already) separated into its own module, then the quickest and easiest way to balance would be to create a lower baseline around damage and resistances for Warframes and weapons. Thus, mob levels can be balanced to match the power and defense level of players, so that they are not overpowering or underwhelming. It may all be wholly unnecessary if balance can be achieved relatively quickly through plain old nerfing/buffing, but I can't imagine that progressing quick enough to make DSC PVP not nearly as frustrating as it currently is.

 

Changing loadout: Yes, it can be abusable as things currently are. However, if the armory is only accessible at spawn and players aren't allowed to re-enter spawn after leaving, then loadouts can only be changed after death. I can't see this as being very abusable.

 

Energy over time: How much more abusable is this compared to restoring energy at a beacon located behind spawns? If a player doesn't spawn with any energy, and only gains energy at a rate of one per second, and all warframes are balanced in the way I've proposed, then abilities shouldn't be so overpowered that they one-shot anything, and shouldn't be so cheap to cast that they can be spammed, and would only be castable after 25, 50, 75, and 100 seconds (or whatever depending on ability level and balance changes), and energy generation would only be boosted by energy orbs which requires the player(s) to kill a mob, and even then it would just be a chance drop for an orb. Currently, it is usually one side or the other that has an energy beacon, and warframe mod loadouts allow abilities to be quickly available and easily boosted depending on the order in which they've been slotted, which gives great advantage to those who have forma'd the ever loving hell out of their warframe.

 

Objectives: Currently, "Loki speed play  to objectives and kills teamplay" is the way most conflict matches play out. If you consider the great number of objective types that can be added--rather than the pittance of objectives currently available--then Loki's viability and the importance of kills (not as important if tickets are removed) can be greatly reduced. That said, there's no reason to remove the promotion of one warframe over another in regards to specific objective types (Frost for VIP escorts, Loki for datanode delivery, Ash for VIP capture, etc.) especially when a player can change their loadout upon death.

 

Tight spaces: Camping will occur regardless of whether there are tight spaces or not, as evidenced by the current map(s) seen in DSC; from spawns to chokepoints to objectives, everything is currently capable of being camped, and successfully by as few as two players. The addition of tight corridors, especially when there are multiple leading from and to open areas, coupled with the large and open battlefield wherein multiple objectives are always present and immediately pursuable, means that--while camping is still viable--it is greatly devalued when the camper can be completely bypassed for another objective, or when the opponent--after being killed by a camper--can switch his loadout to deal with said camper. It also allows the addition of routes that might flank the opposition while obfuscating visibility of the flanker without necessitating the use of a stealth-capable warframe.

[Azawarau]

Normalization: Let's assume a few things here, considering what we know about the game's mechanics...

• Warframes and weapons are balanced for PVE; both are designed for power, but Warframes aren't very durable so as to preserve difficulty.

• Tenno technically are their own category of resistances, which is currently an amalgamation of existing resistances (Flesh, Ferrite, Alloy, etc.)

• DSCs have both PVE units and Tenno units (which can also be Specters)

Currently, in order to balance for damage against players (Tenno), damage and resistance must also be considered for mobs (inside or outside of PVP conflicts). This makes for a pretty big mess of numbers. If DSC PVP cannot be (or isn't already) separated into its own module, then the quickest and easiest way to balance would be to create a lower baseline around damage and resistances for Warframes and weapons. Thus, mob levels can be balanced to match the power and defense level of players, so that they are not overpowering or underwhelming. It may all be wholly unnecessary if balance can be achieved relatively quickly through plain old nerfing/buffing, but I can't imagine that progressing quick enough to make DSC PVP not nearly as frustrating as it currently is.

 

Changing loadout: Yes, it can be abusable as things currently are. However, if the armory is only accessible at spawn and players aren't allowed to re-enter spawn after leaving, then loadouts can only be changed after death. I can't see this as being very abusable.

 

Energy over time: How much more abusable is this compared to restoring energy at a beacon located behind spawns? If a player doesn't spawn with any energy, and only gains energy at a rate of one per second, and all warframes are balanced in the way I've proposed, then abilities shouldn't be so overpowered that they one-shot anything, and shouldn't be so cheap to cast that they can be spammed, and would only be castable after 25, 50, 75, and 100 seconds (or whatever depending on ability level and balance changes), and energy generation would only be boosted by energy orbs which requires the player(s) to kill a mob, and even then it would just be a chance drop for an orb. Currently, it is usually one side or the other that has an energy beacon, and warframe mod loadouts allow abilities to be quickly available and easily boosted depending on the order in which they've been slotted, which gives great advantage to those who have forma'd the ever loving hell out of their warframe.

 

Objectives: Currently, "Loki speed play  to objectives and kills teamplay" is the way most conflict matches play out. If you consider the great number of objective types that can be added--rather than the pittance of objectives currently available--then Loki's viability and the importance of kills (not as important if tickets are removed) can be greatly reduced. That said, there's no reason to remove the promotion of one warframe over another in regards to specific objective types (Frost for VIP escorts, Loki for datanode delivery, Ash for VIP capture, etc.) especially when a player can change their loadout upon death.

 

Tight spaces: Camping will occur regardless of whether there are tight spaces or not, as evidenced by the current map(s) seen in DSC; from spawns to chokepoints to objectives, everything is currently capable of being camped, and successfully by as few as two players. The addition of tight corridors, especially when there are multiple leading from and to open areas, coupled with the large and open battlefield wherein multiple objectives are always present and immediately pursuable, means that--while camping is still viable--it is greatly devalued when the camper can be completely bypassed for another objective, or when the opponent--after being killed by a camper--can switch his loadout to deal with said camper. It also allows the addition of routes that might flank the opposition while obfuscating visibility of the flanker without necessitating the use of a stealth-capable warframe.

Normalizing weapons and frames only cuts customization options and personal preference for an easy way out balance

 

There are other ways that make for much more interesting PvP

 

It just takes more work

 

Changing loadout when you die for whatever is most efficient for that section of objective

 

Less cons to bringing a weapon when you always have exactly what you need for a given situation

 

Energy over time will be heavily abused by frames that can make use of energy efficiency or spammable 1 skills

 

A small list:

 

Ash,Ember,banshee frost loki mag,rhino,saryn,Trinity 1 second blessingspamthatsalreadybrokenasis,Vauban, and volt

 

I never once said the infinite energy capsules were good,those things need a time limit for use after the first phase or soemthing to make them less abusable

 

Lokis arent all that useful in DSPvP surprisingly

 

As a defender hes a great infiltrator and as an attacker he gets killed often for being soft due to limited space

 

Stealt,utility/ or defense

 

You cant have it all with him so hes situational and touchy at best

 

Loki prime will rule speed objective play if all slots are open and easily at that

 

Camping will always exist

 

Why encourage it more?

[Wyzilla]

It's not our modded weapons that make ds unbalanced (with the exception of a few, such as explosives).

 

it's mostly the abilities like bladestorm, shurken, hysteria, etc, that are the source of unbalance. Therefore reworking a the pvp versions of those and adding cooldowns first would be a better solution, rather than replacing everything with a boring brainless default system.

 

Also of course, reflex guard, quick thinking, and rage are another big source of unbalance and those need a nerf or be disabled.

 

It wouldn't take several months to fix just those, as you say.

Having been just playing several dark sector conflicts, no. Besides teleport abuse, I've barely found any warframe powers to be broken, much rather that the conflicts are a giant pile of crap thanks to how poorly DE balances Tenno mods and weapons which don't translate at all from PVE to PVP. The problem with Warframe is DE's complete lack of balance or lack of skill regarding precise balancing rather than simply hitting something with the "suck hammer" so it's either underpowered or overpowered, there's no good medium. I just got back from a game filled with people just abusing melee AOE and helicoptering, leading to numerous enemies raining down from the sky and smashing AOE attacks.

 

I can't even list all the problems with PVP right now, they're too numerous. The only description I can put to words is that if Warframe was exclusively PVP, it'd be dead in a week due to how horribly unbalanced PVP is right now. It doesn't help either that thanks to functioning like a console game instead of having proper servers, PVP lags horrendously and it makes any and all precision weapons near useless. Sniper rifles and bows are worthless in PVP considering people move around like quantum particles that can't decide which space they want to occupy.

 

The only way you can fix Warframe PVP is just by ripping out all of the variables (and boy are there a lot of those thanks to modding and damage 2.0) and instituting a class based system with a preset list of weapons. And switching it over to a server because dear god the connection rate is terrible.

 

Plus then there's other problems resulting from PVP being hosted by a player, like the losing team rage-quitting to avoid a loss. Just really, PVP is a mess, and it's certainly not just related to 'Tenno abilities".  They're going to need to overhaul it at some point, as I don't see this current system being very good or surviving for very long.

Edited August 9, 2014 by Wyzilla

[Hueminator]

Although I like the normalizing weapons and mod in general, I have to disagree in DS conflict.  DS was introduce as an end game feature, and by end game pretty much there is gear/mod differences.  I actually found it strange that forma are disabled in DS because of this reason.

 

Your Idea is good, but I think it should be like clan vs clan sport.