Renegade343 Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Ok so now that this is out of this way... let's discuss double jumping. Go. Probably not for this game, given that we already have quite a lot of ways for vertical movement (wall-climbing and Warframe abilities and such). I think double-jumping would just take away some of the parkour challenges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Vondred- Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Probably not for this game, given that we already have quite a lot of ways for vertical movement (wall-climbing and Warframe abilities and such). I think double-jumping would just take away some of the parkour challenges. I get it. . But my friend, does it not piss you off when you have to run up walls knowing that EVERY ENEMY EVER can Mario jump their &#! up one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 I get it. . But my friend, does it not &!$$ you off when you have to run up walls knowing that EVERY ENEMY EVER can Mario jump their @$$ up one? We need better movement options. Why can't tenno climb? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Vondred- Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 We need better movement options. Why can't tenno climb? Better question -- why can the fat @(*()$ corpus jump in general? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Better question -- why can the fat @(*()$ corpus jump in general? Jump jets? Gravity manipulation? Space magic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade343 Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 I get it. . But my friend, does it not &!$$ you off when you have to run up walls knowing that EVERY ENEMY EVER can Mario jump their @$$ up one? Not really, to be honest. Maybe because I came to the game and expected parkour from the trailers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade343 Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Jump jets? Gravity manipulation? Space magic? Quicker and easier to code, it seems, while keeping less lag for multiplayer and such. Then again, this is my conjecture on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrphanMaker Posted August 4, 2014 Author Share Posted August 4, 2014 (edited) How about all tenno have gravity attract plates in their shoes that allow them to wall run and stick to walls like spiderman. This same force that cause players to stick to walls, could be used as a gravity repulsive force enabling tenno to double jump. First jump, normal land jump, second jump = gravity repulsive jump. ^^ "This is made up, but could serve as the basis for the logic behind a double jump" Edited August 4, 2014 by OrphanMaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pbrandon1 Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Ok, I think the thread will need to stay on topic or make another thread because I think the moderator will lock it if it strays from the original post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellEnforcer Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Cover is out of place in the context of ninjas? What in God's name are you talking about? What bizarro world are you living in? I think cover would be pretty cool, myself. Most people wouldn't use it, this is true, but I don't see how it would actually hurt the game to have the option. They might have hid, they probably didn't take cover, especially since I doubt they lived on an era where they had to take cover from shot, and taking cover from someone with a sword is kind of dumb... That's just a guess though, my ancient history knowledge of japan and asia in general is lacking. Also, I live in the bizarro world you live in too. The game is hurt because instead of being a fast paced game where players have to constantly be on the move, look out for threats, prioritize targets, think on the next move; players would only have to jump from cover to cover after killing all in sight. Uh, ninjas were assassins that worked for the Japanese government. I'm fairly certain they used cover when the situation warranted. As for cover, there shouldn't be automatic cover. If there's any cover system ever, it should have a hotkey you have to press to move you into using cover. What I'd rather have it the handedness switch depending on which side of a hallway/box/whatever I'm on/behind, so you don't have to hit "H" to aim when you're on the left/right-hand side of a doorway, etc. Read above for my knowledge on ninja history, I have no clue how ninjas really worked. Also, you should not be hiding. I think the devs said something like that's not like they wanted this game to be played. Hiding from the fight and firing from behind cover. They wanted the players to be moving around. As an extra note for both and all those with similar "reasons". If you so much think ninjas from that era used cover (I still think they just hid if anything), then behave like one and use swords or melee weapons instead of cowarding behind a box... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrphanMaker Posted August 5, 2014 Author Share Posted August 5, 2014 (edited) This argument will stay the same. We want a cover system. Some people will say no, but like I said its optional. People are saying a cover system is not needed because the game is to fast pace, and I believe not. A cover system is needed for stealth gameplay which is inherently slower, and players need a cover system for when enemies grow very strong. People say they use cover anyway, and we can already take cover. That's true, but want I want is for DE to expand up on the cover system we already have. People have agreed to a cover system that does not hard locker players to cover. Someone proposed of a dynamic none inhibiting cover system. This system will be automatic. It will not hinder a players movement nor ability to fire. I for one thinks a dynamic non-sticky cover system could work, and would work very well. Now their is one thing I do want, and that is the "back against the wall sticky cover." I want hard lock to wall cover but will take what I can get. Edited August 7, 2014 by OrphanMaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedarDpg Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 (edited) They might have hid, they probably didn't take cover, especially since I doubt they lived on an era where they had to take cover from shot, and taking cover from someone with a sword is kind of dumb... That's just a guess though, my ancient history knowledge of japan and asia in general is lacking. Also, I live in the bizarro world you live in too. The game is hurt because instead of being a fast paced game where players have to constantly be on the move, look out for threats, prioritize targets, think on the next move; players would only have to jump from cover to cover after killing all in sight. Read above for my knowledge on ninja history, I have no clue how ninjas really worked. Also, you should not be hiding. I think the devs said something like that's not like they wanted this game to be played. Hiding from the fight and firing from behind cover. They wanted the players to be moving around. As an extra note for both and all those with similar "reasons". If you so much think ninjas from that era used cover (I still think they just hid if anything), then behave like one and use swords or melee weapons instead of cowarding behind a box... (Actually, I'll edit this to address more things.) They didn't really have to deal with advanced ranged weapons, no. But they did have to avoid being shot at by arrows. As you've mentioned a few times, yes, you obviously are lacking in Asian, especially Japanese history. Beyond that, you have no idea my play style. I don't actually normally hide behind stuff, I'm often running around killing things. Doesn't mean I don't support a cover system for people who want to run, hide, snipe, rinse and repeat. Also, just charging into the middle of stuff all the time on principle is not very smart. So yeah, if I'm running along the side of a hallway and I come to a doorway, I'd like my reticle's handed-ness to switch as if I was taking cover. I think you mean "cowering." Cowarding isn't a word conjugation that's in use much nowadays and I doubt it was even used much, period. Anyhow, one use of cover is to hide. You see, most people can't see through boxes or other opaque objects, thus obscuring the person using cover. If you ever avoid a shot by moving around behind obstacles (crates/walls/doors/etc.) that block weapons fire you've "cowarded" behind cover too, it's just not by using some implemented in-game system. Oh, and also, real ninjas often used disguises, for one. Where are our disguises? Also, as assassins, they tried to be stealthy when possible. They were assassinating a target, they weren't one (to four) man/men armies that blazed through a castle to kill everyone. They'd probably be tasked to off the local shogun, his wives and children for example. No, they probably were a bit more quiet whilst sticking a dagger in that 4 year old's neck. Or maybe choking that infant to death with their bare hands. Who knows? Maybe poison was a choice method. Edited August 5, 2014 by CedarDpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSpite Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 This argument will stay the same. We want a cover system. Some people will say no, but like I said its optional. People are saying a cover system is not needed because the game is to fast pace, and I believe not. A cover system is needed for stealth gameplay which is inherently slower, and players need a cover system for when enemies grow very strong. People say they use cover anyway, and we can already take cover. That's true, but want I want is for DE to expand up on the cover system we already have. People have agreed to a cover system that does not hard locker players to cover. Someone proposed of a dynamic none inhibiting cover system. This system will be automatic. It will not hinder a players movement nor ability to fire. I for one thinks a dynamic non-sticky cover system could work, and would work very well. Now their is one thing I do want, and that is the "back against the wall" cover. It can be dynamic like the cover system in far cry 3 but a little back against the wall will not hurt and it looks good too. No we dont, YOU want a cover system. I'm playing a new account with an Excalibur, who will not EVER get anything but a Braton, a frigging Lex and a Glaive (at least not with Forma) and I'm already using craploads of cover. What YOU want is not a realistic cover system, where everything is cover, but a fake cover system, where DE has to figure out all the places on a level where you can do it and where you can't, because in case you have not noticed, half the places where the enemy takes cover has massive gaps we can shoot through. Even Vegas 2, in order to be realistic, in PVP, had to implement a cover system where you CANNOT see around, in order to prevent unrealistic "peeking". A REAL cover system means you CANT see above the cover. If you want one of those, I'm all for it. Make it happen DE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unknow99 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 (edited) Wowowow I've seen people saying that a "sticky" cover system is not for a fast-paced game like Warframe,which is right. But I see here that some people say the same for stealth?! Nonono please don't mix things up! Stealth sure can be viably implemented! It's related to space ninja, and having both rambo style & a smarter approach is more than possible! You probably underestimate the amount of stealth/solo/no ability players,but we're here. And sneaking around won't mess with rambo players experience, if done right! Edited August 5, 2014 by unknow99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellEnforcer Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 (edited) (Actually, I'll edit this to address more things.) They didn't really have to deal with advanced ranged weapons, no. But they did have to avoid being shot at by arrows. As you've mentioned a few times, yes, you obviously are lacking in Asian, especially Japanese history. Beyond that, you have no idea my play style. I don't actually normally hide behind stuff, I'm often running around killing things. Doesn't mean I don't support a cover system for people who want to run, hide, snipe, rinse and repeat. Also, just charging into the middle of stuff all the time on principle is not very smart. So yeah, if I'm running along the side of a hallway and I come to a doorway, I'd like my reticle's handed-ness to switch as if I was taking cover. I think you mean "cowering." Cowarding isn't a word conjugation that's in use much nowadays and I doubt it was even used much, period. Anyhow, one use of cover is to hide. You see, most people can't see through boxes or other opaque objects, thus obscuring the person using cover. If you ever avoid a shot by moving around behind obstacles (crates/walls/doors/etc.) that block weapons fire you've "cowarded" behind cover too, it's just not by using some implemented in-game system. Oh, and also, real ninjas often used disguises, for one. Where are our disguises? Also, as assassins, they tried to be stealthy when possible. They were assassinating a target, they weren't one (to four) man/men armies that blazed through a castle to kill everyone. They'd probably be tasked to off the local shogun, his wives and children for example. No, they probably were a bit more quiet whilst sticking a dagger in that 4 year old's neck. Or maybe choking that infant to death with their bare hands. Who knows? Maybe poison was a choice method. Thank you for correcting the "cowarding" part. English is not my first language, so at the very least this helped me to know about the correct word. I did not intend to make it sound like it was you. When I said "You should not be hiding" I meant it in a more general way, not just you. I guess my not so broad english knowledge and usage might have played a role in that misunderstanding. However, you are right, charging in blindly in the middle of a room is not very smart, which is why I said you have to prioritize targets and plan ahead. Just wanted to mention that your play of words with the opaque / hiding was in part amusing and in part saddening if you really meant that. Hiding is totally different from taking cover even if taking cover also works as a mean to hide. Even you said it. One is meant to avoid being spotted, while the other is meant to avoid gunfire and allow to return it, quite likely after they saw you. One can be used for the other, which means they are not the same. There is a difference between crouching behind a box or some object to reload or let the shields recharge a bit; and spending the whole battle in there. I guess they could both count as "cowarding" though. As for the stealth part, I have been wondering where it is on the game too. I remember being mentioned a few times on some livestreams, but I am at a loss on where that was left at. Switching off the alarm is not much of stealth to me, really. I have seen a few replies that mention sneaking around. I am totally up for that, but you should note that sneaking and hiding are not the same as taking cover. Edited August 6, 2014 by HellEnforcer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrphanMaker Posted August 7, 2014 Author Share Posted August 7, 2014 (edited) This is the cover system I want. http://youtu.be/MGzIss7Ub-4 The third person gameplay is very similar. Also I would like the ability to command my Kubrow the way you can control your squad in the video above. Edited August 7, 2014 by OrphanMaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedarDpg Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Thank you for correcting the "cowarding" part. English is not my first language, so at the very least this helped me to know about the correct word. I did not intend to make it sound like it was you. When I said "You should not be hiding" I meant it in a more general way, not just you. I guess my not so broad english knowledge and usage might have played a role in that misunderstanding. However, you are right, charging in blindly in the middle of a room is not very smart, which is why I said you have to prioritize targets and plan ahead. Just wanted to mention that your play of words with the opaque / hiding was in part amusing and in part saddening if you really meant that. Hiding is totally different from taking cover even if taking cover also works as a mean to hide. Even you said it. One is meant to avoid being spotted, while the other is meant to avoid gunfire and allow to return it, quite likely after they saw you. One can be used for the other, which means they are not the same. There is a difference between crouching behind a box or some object to reload or let the shields recharge a bit; and spending the whole battle in there. I guess they could both count as "cowarding" though. As for the stealth part, I have been wondering where it is on the game too. I remember being mentioned a few times on some livestreams, but I am at a loss on where that was left at. Switching off the alarm is not much of stealth to me, really. I have seen a few replies that mention sneaking around. I am totally up for that, but you should note that sneaking and hiding are not the same as taking cover. I have a friend who likes to stealth levels, usually solo. Doesn't take him very long to clear a mission using stealth tactics with a sniper rifle. It's like poppopoppop, run to next location, poppopoppop, rinse and repeat. It's impressive to watch sometimes. But I will admit, if in a squad, gameplay would be rather boring with everyone doing this. The other thing...if players don't get cover, the enemies shouldn't either. It's annoying that the enemies often hide and shoot around corners (and don't hit anything while doing that)...it just makes things take longer as you have to go find enemies that are cowering in some corner somewhere...and then you go up behind them and they stay cowering hoping you don't notice they're right in front of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cwierz Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 I actually think a "smooth" cover system would do marvels for the game. What I mean by smooth is that you don't press a button to go into "cover-mode"... when you approach a wall your tenno will naturally back against it and you can aim around said piece of cover (provided you are not sprinting into the wall). It would be designed in a way that it doesn't obstruct movement, could improve the vaulting system, and wouldn't have an impact on wallrunning but instead would fit in with the flow of the game. However, personally I would prefer better parkour over a cover system of any kind any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirmyBurrito Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 This is the cover system I want. http://youtu.be/MGzIss7Ub-4 The third person gameplay is very similar. Also I would like the ability to command my Kubrow the way you can control your squad in the video above. No thanks, way too sticky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zyion Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 (edited) I don't get why people want a cover system in Warframe when it obviously isn't a tactical shooter. In tactical shooters, positioning and cover are the most important part of the gameplay since a single shot can kill you most of the time. Twitch reflexes play a part, but sound strategy is what generally wins in those games. If there was a cover system for Warframe, it would be nearly worthless unless DE redesigned the Warframes for it. Why use cover when you can just mod your Warframe to either be a giant damage sponge or use an ability that makes them immune to damage? Why would you have to worry about taking hits when you can either disable or pull enemy fire away from you? Why would you even bother with moving from cover to cover when you can just teleport or dash into the middle of a group of enemies and knock them all down with a single attack? Why would you need to get behind cover when you can create an impervious shield that blocks all incoming attacks but not outgoing attacks? Why would you have to think about getting a tactical advantage on an enemy in cover when there are numerous weapons or abilities that purposefully deny an enemy's cover? The only place that I can even think that cover might be useful is defense. But considering that the defense target is out in the open, if you were to jump into cover, the enemies would just unload into the defense target instead. Oh and let's not forget that cover would also be useless against any enemy that is designed for melee combat. So cover would be completely pointless for roughly a third of the enemies in Warframe. Edited August 7, 2014 by Zyion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executor_Aeternus Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 (edited) ...Warframe is also a fast paced game, having [using] cover would make the game feel slower. *Using. Using the cover would make the game feel slower, not having the cover. Its use would be entirely optional. The fact that you're an op badass space ninja wouldn't change. Additionally, those who use cover would be doing things slower and therefore progress slower. The real badasses able to go fast would progress faster, due to completing content faster. It would eventually be balanced in endgame with level 70+ enemies, where a single mistake could kill you. I support cover being in the game. Sure, single bullets don't kill you, but this game focuses on having lots of enemies around. Instead of 3 or so deadly bullets flying at you, you more often have 40 or 50bullets coming at once that each moderately injure you. Edited August 7, 2014 by LordGreymantle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endymion7 Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 (edited) This was all I can think of when reading this thread: Edited August 7, 2014 by endymion7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Vondred- Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Can this thread die now? We get it. OPTIONAL. Still no. Move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrphanMaker Posted August 15, 2014 Author Share Posted August 15, 2014 Yes, it is dead now. No, cover system.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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