Cover System, Its Optional And Its Time!

[OniDax]

Nope. What this game is lacking is something to tie these rather random, repetitive missions together. Game needs to be an MMO-lite. Hubs will help the game move towards that. But it needs some sort of free-roam (personally flying the Lisets to planets to make the player feel connected to the universe) and an actual quest feature that's akin to a sort of single player, and not just playing the same old repetitive missions with different dialog.

 

Bottom line: some open-world environments (can honestly be the same tilesets, just with more accessible areas, like in survival missions, or can also include space in orbit of a planet) that the player can freely travel to, as well as quests that aren't just the same old missions, but that have different objectives with a focus on story and various characters to interact with. Warframe would be the same game it is now, just with some MMO-like/lite features. Because, when people tire of the content, they can still have a lore-driven game.

 

But a cover system isn't the large "void" in the game. It's having lore-centered features that connect the player to the various factions and lore and content that's featured in the game.

[Niryco]

Right now i rather see even more smooth transition between traversing cover rather than having a cover system. This game can use speed and movement as a pseudo cover system until it can't improve it any further than we should use the sticky cover system, but right now they are hardly improving it so i would say no to this suggestion just yet.

[OniDax]

I know it's a bit off of the main point here but;

 

Yay, another player who actually understands this.  You have no idea how overjoyed I am at seeing someone who knows how the enemies work in this game.  The current running count is... well staggeringly low.

 

There are tons of players who literally believe it's impossible to dodge Grineer shots, as silly as that sounds I'm not even slightly joking.

 

Or you can be a boss, go melee, and block their shots.

[vaugahn]

Right now i rather see even more smooth transition between traversing cover rather than having a cover system. This game can use speed and movement as a pseudo cover system until it can't improve it any further than we should use the sticky cover system, but right now they are hardly improving it so i would say no to this suggestion just yet.

 

Sticky cover will never fit in a game as mobile as warframe. We need dodging, not cover. 

[SquirmyBurrito]

Teleporting around just to kill one enemy is not energy efficient. I don't care if it's for heavies only. You are not immune to enemy fire and can still get shot at, and still receive damage.

 

6.25 for an instant kill would make it the most energy efficient killing ability in the game. Also, Smoke Screen get's rid of the drawbacks you listed. Can you image how well this team would do: Radial Blind+Energy Vampire+Something to protect the pod if you're playing defense/Radial Disarm Loki+Teleport Ash

 

Mix in everyone ground slamming with an orthos prime/some other weapon with a huge AoE ground slam+using their ground finishers, and you'd have a team ready to oneshot their way to ridiculous levels.

[OrphanMaker]

What use is cover to indestructible war gods?

How about you solo a T3 exterminate without taking cover then post that video. Then we will start talking.

Edited August 2, 2014 by OrphanMaker

[DSpite]

I don't care for the way other game are! This is the way I and many other want to play this game! The other games are just cathering to the diversity of their player base better!

 

Right so it comes out: "I don't care why it is the way it is, I want it different"

 

My vote is no then.

 

I already take TONS of cover when I'm in fragile frames. When you are behind objects you can still shoot and minimize incoming fire. I even use the "H" key to toggle left and right to account for the side I'm on. The ONLY reason other games have cover options is because single bullets kill you.

 

"Video games with cover systems tend to encourage players to avoid direct confrontation with enemies, but rather tactically maneuver to eliminate them"

[tehgreg]

How about you solo a T3 exterminate without taking cover then post that video. Then we will start talking.

 

Now I am not sure if you are trolling or just terribly bad at Warframe.

[noveltyhero]

"Every real and taken seriously game are offers this system."

Counter strike does not. It is the most competitive first person shooter and one of the most competitive games of our history, it is taken super seriously and does not have a cover system.

 

Planetside 2 does not either, as well as Arma 2/3. Battlefield doesn't (exactly), Bioshock doesn't, Killing Floor doesn't, Call of Duty doesn't...seriously cover system is no no. It fits certain games like Ghost Recon but not this :)

[VoidWraith]

6.25 for an instant kill would make it the most energy efficient killing ability in the game. Also, Smoke Screen get's rid of the drawbacks you listed. Can you image how well this team would do: Radial Blind+Energy Vampire+Something to protect the pod if you're playing defense/Radial Disarm Loki+Teleport Ash

 

Mix in everyone ground slamming with an orthos prime/some other weapon with a huge AoE ground slam+using their ground finishers, and you'd have a team ready to oneshot their way to ridiculous levels.

 

If anything DE can always just make enemies have higher resistances to knockdowns, but regardless, even if you are invisible, does not mean you are immune to damage. DE has also input in place enemies detecting sound while you are invisible and such. So invisibility doesn't have as much power as one would think.

 

I don't mind one-shotting counter/ground/stealth kills; because of the simple fact, that you aren't immune to damage. Enemies can always resist or block knockdown moves and so forth. They could even input certain actions to prevent themselves from being stun-locked in melee, like giving them some sort of knock-back counter. It would also increase enemy difficulty so they wouldn't be sandbags for melee. Higher tier enemies are already bullet sponges.

 

In the end, it is still much more efficient to just use a penta/ogris/angstrum to blow everything up. Why? because it doesn't take as long of an animation to just kill with guns than it does to wait for animations to finish with the melee kills (stealth/counter/ground). But it has gotten to the point where enemy difficulty is artificial in the fact that they aren't "challenging" but just "annoying" or "high hp/armor", which doesn't really say much for the game's enemy difficulty and AI mechanics.

Edited August 2, 2014 by VoidWraith

[SquirmyBurrito]

If anything DE can always just make enemies have higher resistances to knockdowns, but regardless, even if you are invisible, does not mean you are immune to damage. DE has also input in place enemies detecting sound while you are invisible and such. So invisibility doesn't have as much power as one would think.

 

I don't mind one-shotting counter/ground/stealth kills; because of the simple fact, that you aren't immune to damage. Enemies can always resist or block knockdown moves and so forth. They could even input certain actions to prevent themselves from being stun-locked in melee, like giving them some sort of knock-back counter. It would also increase enemy difficulty so they wouldn't be sandbags for melee. Higher tier enemies are already bullet sponges.

 

In the end, it is still much more efficient to just use a penta/ogris/angstrum to blow everything up. Why? because it doesn't take as long of an animation to just kill with guns than it does to wait for animations to finish with the melee kills (stealth/counter/ground). But it has gotten to the point where enemy difficulty is artificial in the fact that they aren't "challenging" but just "annoying" or "high hp/armor", which doesn't really say much for the game's enemy difficulty and AI mechanics.

 

Them resisting knockdowns just means melee weapons got a HUGE nerf to accompany their HUGE buff. That also wouldn't do anything to Ash as his teleport is (supposed to be) a guaranteed finisher. Enemies reacting to sound is nice, but not really as dangerous as you'd think. Especially when (IIRC) finishers aren't considered noisy, and the enemy you're finishing isn't going to be able to do anything beyond stagger and get oneshotted.

 

Most enemies can't resist melee weapon knockdowns. Adding resistance is an unnecessary change that can be avoided by simply not stupidly making finishers oneshot kills. And as I said, Teleport is (supposed to be) a guaranteed finisher. Paralysis is too (IIRC) which when combined with Hysteria would make Valkyr stupidly overpowered.

 

Only at lower levels. Once you get to super high levels, the explosive trio would continue to fall off in damage while Ash (and valkyr) and anyone with a melee weapon would continue to be able to oneshot all the enemies. The strategy would then evolve into a game of keeping the enemies off the pod long enough to oneshot them all.

[(PSN)DanteVincent]

LOL 'Derp it is fast paced' has to be the most unoriginal and idiotic arguments i read in this forum, by far, there is no fast pace when twenty lv 60 enemies are shooting at you in t4s. It is only fast paced when you are op, when the enemies start getting op you need room to reload, rethink, perhaps wait for rejuv and siphon regen a bit, I mean, there already is pseudo cover and all of us use it, why not refine it?

 

And guess what people? That's when the challenge and the fun of the game begins, it simply is not fun when I don't need cover and am raping enemies left and right, when the game starts being a challenge is when you need cover. So if you don't like cover simply don't use it.

 

+1 TC

[(PSN)DanteVincent]

Because we *have* tried it.

 

How many people here do you think *haven't played Mass Effect, or CoD, or MW, or Deus Ex:HR, or any number of other games that have sticky cover.

 

Sticky cover is a *console* mechanic - before the consoles figured out how to make a shooter work with analog drumsticks PC's never bothered with that.

 

Now its freaking ubiquitous and all it does is turn all the combat areas into shooting galleries.  You know when you're about to get into a battle because the room you just entered is a long hall with chest high walls all over it.

 

I'd far rather see regenerating health before sticky cover.

 

L2Crouch and sticky cover becomes irrelevant.

Teh ignorance.

[(PSN)DanteVincent]

So every game copying the same system is how you cater to a more diverse player base? 

I think you've got your entire thought process backwards. 

Let me tell you something, One size NEVER fits all. By copying the same overused formula you don't cater to a more diverse player base, you cater to the bubble of people who happen to like that one system, and in the process you alienate everyone else. Just because you reside within that bubble doesn't mean the rest of us do. 

I hate to sound blatantly rude, but it's because of people like you that we have so many generic AAA games crowding the market. You've gotten to thinking that the generic way is the only way, and as a result the only games with any imagination are indies and the occasional rare gem like Warframe. And yet here you are, trying to ruin what makes warframe special, whether you know it or not. 

 

Warframe will not get a cover system. It would repel too many players. End of story. 

Because they are dinosaurs playing in a dinosaur platform that takes pride in carrying jurassic mechanics, its okay though, destiny is right around the corner.

[fatpig84]

How about you solo a T3 exterminate without taking cover then post that video. Then we will start talking.

 

I can use my perma invisibility loki with my 3 star dread to prove a point, but that is not what I am supposed to do I guess.

[fatpig84]

LOL 'Derp it is fast paced' has to be the most unoriginal and idiotic arguments i read in this forum, by far, there is no fast pace when twenty lv 60 enemies are shooting at you in t4s. It is only fast paced when you are op, when the enemies start getting op you need room to reload, rethink, perhaps wait for rejuv and siphon regen a bit, I mean, there already is pseudo cover and all of us use it, why not refine it?

 

And guess what people? That's when the challenge and the fun of the game begins, it simply is not fun when I don't need cover and am raping enemies left and right, when the game starts being a challenge is when you need cover. So if you don't like cover simply don't use it.

 

+1 TC

 

 

Never seen a disarm Loki + vortex booben ?

[(PSN)DanteVincent]

Never seen a disarm Loki + vortex booben ?

Yup, all the time since all I do is t4s, playing as loki most of the time, still i wish we could resort to different approaches other than locking enemies in chaos, radial disarm, radial blind, stomp, sound quake and play shooting range.

[vaugahn]

Yup, all the time since all I do is t4s, playing as loki most of the time, still i wish we could resort to different approaches other than locking enemies in chaos, radial disarm, radial blind, stomp, sound quake and play shooting range.

 

So you want this to become another "sit behind a box and take potshots" TPS?

 

No thank you.

 

We need dodging mechanics, not cover mechanics.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

The game needs a cover system since enemies can one shot you when they get to high enough levels. Dodging is pretty ineffective anyway so most people just nuke enemies from orbit.  A cover system would at least be more enjoyable.

[SquirmyBurrito]

LOL 'Derp it is fast paced' has to be the most unoriginal and idiotic arguments i read in this forum, by far, there is no fast pace when twenty lv 60 enemies are shooting at you in t4s. It is only fast paced when you are op, when the enemies start getting op you need room to reload, rethink, perhaps wait for rejuv and siphon regen a bit, I mean, there already is pseudo cover and all of us use it, why not refine it?

 

And guess what people? That's when the challenge and the fun of the game begins, it simply is not fun when I don't need cover and am raping enemies left and right, when the game starts being a challenge is when you need cover. So if you don't like cover simply don't use it.

 

+1 TC

 

The cover system we have currently is all we need. A dedicated cover system doesn't offer any real benefits beyond looking nicer. And looking nicer at the cost of control of your character is a huge 'no-no' in my book. The majority of this game is fast paced.

 

Because they are dinosaurs playing in a dinosaur platform that takes pride in carrying jurassic mechanics, its okay though, destiny is right around the corner.

 

Dinosaurs? Is that the new way console kiddies have found to insult us? Can't challenge our hardware and game library, so you have to attempt to insult our platform's age? GG.

Destiny looks hella generic (IMO). It is going to die under the weight of all the hype you guys have piled on its shoulders.

 

The game needs a cover system since enemies can one shot you when they get to high enough levels. Dodging is pretty ineffective anyway so most people just nuke enemies from orbit.  A cover system would at least be more enjoyable.

 

Extreme high-end content is not the majority of this game's content. So what you're advocating is the wresting of player control over their character while in cover purely so players playing extreme high-end content (which equates to a tiny portion of this game) can look nicer while doing pretty much exactly what they were already doing.

[(PSN)DanteVincent]

So you want this to become another "sit behind a box and take potshots" TPS?

 

No thank you.

 

We need dodging mechanics, not cover mechanics.

Noo, far from it, a mix between what we ahve today and mass effect multiplayer, taking cover in that game was as useful as dangerous since enemy AI was quick to flank you and many units would take advantage of the fact that you are not moving, like phantoms. Cover integration cant come alone.

 

But lets be honest, when you are playing the "the sword alone" it is not fun either to chase chickens that are scripted to run for cover at the slightest sight of a tenno.

 

Cover cons' go both ways, and thus far, it hinders the game due to poor ai.

[vaugahn]

Noo, far from it, a mix between what we ahve today and mass effect multiplayer, taking cover in that game was as useful as dangerous since enemy AI was quick to flank you and many units would take advantage of the fact that you are not moving, like phantoms. Cover integration cant come alone.

 

But lets be honest, when you are playing the "the sword alone" it is not fun either to chase chickens that are scripted to run for cover at the slightest sight of a tenno.

 

Cover cons' go both ways, and thus far, it hinders the game due to poor ai.

 

Sticky cover like in mass effect is an absolute no. It would never work in a game like this. Mass effect didn't have wallruns or vaults like we have.

 

We do need a way to avoid enemy shots, but it needs to be an active method instead of a passive method. This game is a fast paced hack n' slash TPS, sticky cover has no place here.

[(PSN)DanteVincent]

The cover system we have currently is all we need. A dedicated cover system doesn't offer any real benefits beyond looking nicer. And looking nicer at the cost of control of your character is a huge 'no-no' in my book. The majority of this game is fast paced.

 

 

Dinosaurs? Is that the new way console kiddies have found to insult us? Can't challenge our hardware and game library, so you have to attempt to insult our platform's age? GG.

Destiny looks hella generic (IMO). It is going to die under the weight of all the hype you guys have piled on its shoulders.

It can look nicer, be more effective and actually make the game for fluid if implemented right, see, ME had this problem where cover button did many things and that would indeed interrupt the games pace; killzone on the other hand did it beaultifuly and i really cant explain, you need to play to see how fluid and effective it is.

 

Dinosaurs was actually me refering to the guy who told cover is a console mechanic, see, this kind of pre-conceived idea doesnt make any argument stronger. But yea, pc gaming is the oldest form of gaming, by i dont mean anything by saying that, just stating that this may lead some of the old schoolers more resistant to changes and subject to spill non sense like "cover is console hence it is bad". When IMO it clearly add a little more immersion if implemented right, resorting to our actual cover makees me feel like it is an unfinished job.

[(PSN)DanteVincent]

Sticky cover like in mass effect is an absolute no. It would never work in a game like this. Mass effect didn't have wallruns or vaults like we have.

 

We do need a way to avoid enemy shots, but it needs to be an active method instead of a passive method. This game is a fast paced hack n' slash TPS, sticky cover has no place here.

True, true, problem is, the game as it stands today fails to deliver with the whole parkour thing and ninja-esque defense.

 

Agree with it or not, the game is more like mass effect today than the ninja game that is advertised to us. Sure we can do some flashy things but they are either sloppy or useless.

 

Backflips? Wall runs? Wall attack from melee? Who even uses that?

[vaugahn]

True, true, problem is, the game as it stands today fails to deliver with the whole parkour thing and ninja-esque defense.

 

Agree with it or not, the game is more like mass effect today than the ninja game that is advertised to us. Sure we can do some flashy things but they are either sloppy or useless.

 

Backflips? Wall runs? Wall attack from melee? Who even uses that?

 

Almost everyone wallruns. Now, in the example you gave above you cited killzone's cover system. This would be acceptable for warframe.

 

Killzone doesn't have a true cover system, it has a contextual lean. Scoping in near an edge would poke your character around that edge to shoot essentially. This would work for warframe, as it would keep movement fluid and still allow for peeking around corners and what not.

 

Now, let's also not forget this name was never about ninjas. We shouldn't really compare what we can do to the accounts of what ninjas could do. We're more general badass space warriors than ninjas. 

 

Movement 2.0 is something I'm looking forward to. What I want to see is a better sense of weight for our characters, smoother motion, and a greater degree of agility for parkour.