New Xini Looks Terrible..

[Llyssa]

You guys are complaining as if the map was removed from the game itself..

Was it? The dev post suggested it was.

 

EDIT: It's still on venera(phew!). So it's not gone. Which makes the dev post all the odder.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Llyssa

[K_Shiro]

Uhm, Even if they hadn't changed the specific map, Eris is now infested, and even if they had retained the old map, it would be infested on it. how does farming Grineer factor into this at all?

If your issue is with Eris now being home for the infested, and not having the option to farm Grineer/Corpus there, that's an entirely different conversation.

 

Actually no, since they changed Xini to "fit" the new idea of that area being fully infested - thus those issues are intertwined in my eyes. My main issue is that it feels weird that they would throw our something that works and already has a history in the game (as liked content) to introduce something else while they could just plain add those maps. With everything changing so much, i doubt this would have been their biggest challenge... I don't like how DE handles "aged" stuff in the game, plain ignoring old weapons, solving the balancing issues with introducing similar weapons with better stats instead of actually fixing the old ones or just the general lack of care about content already in the game.

I honestly couldn't care less about the new content (terminal dogs included - constantly losing health, day by day while the wild kubrows are fine...we got defective goods or something?) and would gladly forget about them for months in exchange for proper balancing and care towards weapons, frames and abilities. Sadly all we could see over the last patches were (sometimes ninja) nerfs. And the proud owner long-time-worst-idea title, disruptor-kind of enemies having even larger numbers (and power) than before. The whole thing just riles me up to no end - why do things that hurt the players? Not like anybody (among the players) would have been hurt if they didn't touch Xini and moved their new infested stuff into a new area instead...

 

You'll notice my post was framed as a question. I didn't assert my opinion as being absolute. I asked "why the Xini fixation?" Meaning, I was curious as to why you favor xini in particular, as opposed to other nodes in the same level range, or active Dark Sectors with xp multipliers.

I asked out of genuine curiosity, not as some kind of personal slight.

 

You put up that question at the end. I answered the first part where you stated things that only looked at the problem from your side and that's what I pointed out.

Edited August 8, 2014 by K_Shiro

[43Emprah]

Actually no, since they changed Xini to "fit" the new idea of that area being fully infested - thus those issues are intertwined in my eyes. My main issue is that it feels weird that they would throw our something that works and already has a history in the game (as liked content) to introduce something else while they could just plain add those maps. With everything changing so much, i doubt this would have been their biggest challenge... I don't like how DE handles "aged" stuff in the game, plain ignoring old weapons, solving the balancing issues with introducing similar weapons with better stats instead of actually fixing the old ones or just the general lack of care about content already in the game.

I honestly couldn't care less about the new content (terminal dogs included - constantly losing health, day by day while the wild kubrows are fine...we got defective goods or something?) and would gladly forget about them for months in exchange for proper balancing and care towards weapons, frames and abilities. Sadly all we could see over the last patches were (sometimes ninja) nerfs. And the proud owner long-time-worst-idea title, disruptor-kind of enemies having even larger numbers (and power) than before. The whole thing just riles me up to no end - why do things that hurt the players? Not like anybody (among the players) would have been hurt if they didn't touch Xini and moved their new infested stuff into a new area instead...

 

 

You put up that question at the end. I answered the first part where you stated things that only looked at the problem from your side and that's what I pointed out.

To be fair, Xini was originally an infested node, and DE caught hell for changing that. Players were endlessly demanding that Xini be reverted to an infested node.

Grass is always greener, I suppose.

Edit: To further explain. Xini was originally an infested node, due to the way mod drops worked, and the fact that infested missions yield the highest body count, Xini was THE premiere node for mod farming. 

DE decides to rework how the infested work. They remove them from the starchart and place them in the derelict. People immediately got upset at infested removal (often citing Xini's change being the worst offender) and begged/demanded DE address this.

DE added invasions, this bandaged the issue, but players still insisted they wanted PERMANANT infested nodes. Players wanted a dedicated part of the Solar System to be infested. People even SUGGESTED it be Eris. 

DE announces quite a while back that infested will be returning to the star chart. People get excited.

DE announces that Eris will become the homeworld for Infested, and that they will have their own tileset. People get MORE excited.

DE does exactly that. They release the infested tileset, and make Eris their new permanent home. 

Please tell me how this reflects DE just deciding to change Eris, and how they changed content that players enjoyed against their wishes? This happened due to player feedback. Players were slinging a LOT of hate at DE for removing the infested, and ESPECIALLY for removing them from Xini. Now they are back, and back on Xini, and you are saying that DE has removed content that players wanted.

You remember your argument about how I was posting about MY take on Xini, and why I ran it. You are doing exactly the same. Your disgust at the change is NOT community wide, just as my feelings that Xini was no longer the powernode it used to be, are NOT community wide. In fact, a large portion of the community got exactly what they begged DE to give them. They got the infested back, and Xini returned to being an infested node. Hell, people even complained that infested didn't have their own tileset, on a very regular basis. People felt cheated that they were fighting infested on grineer and corpus maps, that had little more than spores slapped on the walls.

You can't please all of the people, all of the time. This topic is exhibit A.

As far as your annoyance with weapons becoming outdated, and disruptors and infested auras getting out of hand, I completely agree with you, but that is another topic entirely.

Edited August 8, 2014 by 43Emprah

[vaugahn]

You guys can bandwagon de all you want new xini is S#&$.

 

Do you have any proof it's objectively worse or is this just personal opinion?

[43Emprah]

Do you have any proof it's objectively worse or is this just personal opinion?

I don't know what you hope to gain from a conversation that began with that post. Nothing constructive will come from it. We both know that.

[vaugahn]

I don't know what you hope to gain from a conversation that began with that post. Nothing constructive will come from it. We both know that.

 

I'm actually interested to know. I've only played new Xini twice, so I've yet to fully experience the map. His post was very short, he didn't elaborate at all on why the thought it was bad. If he just doesn't like the look of it that's one thing, but if he has legitimate problems with the way the map works that's another.

 

I admit I could have phrased that better. 

[43Emprah]

I'm actually interested to know. I've only played new Xini twice, so I've yet to fully experience the map. His post was very short, he didn't elaborate at all on why the thought it was bad. If he just doesn't like the look of it that's one thing, but if he has legitimate problems with the way the map works that's another.

 

I admit I could have phrased that better. 

No, your phrasing was fine. His phrasing is what keeps the conversation from being constructive. His position is that his view is legitimate, and the opposing view is nothing more than Bandwagoning. 

The chances of having a legitimate and constructive exchange with someone who enters the conversation with that mentality, are slim to none. HE's being incendiary solely for the sake of being incendiary. 

That said, It'd be fantastic if he popped in and contributed some constructive discussion.

The map has its problems, pathing is definitely an issue, and the tunnel system bottling up loot from AoE abilities can be problematic for loot collection. I personally enjoy the map overall, but I think the tunnel system leading to the cryopod would definitely benefit from some widening. 

Edited August 8, 2014 by 43Emprah

[vaugahn]

No, your phrasing was fine. His phrasing is what keeps the conversation from being constructive. His position is that his view is legitimate, and the opposing view is nothing more than Bandwagoning. 

The chances of having a legitimate and constructive exchange with someone who enters the conversation with that mentality, are slim to none. HE's being incendiary solely for the sake of being incendiary. 

That said, It'd be fantastic if he popped in and contributed some constructive discussion.

The map has it's problems, pathing is definitely an issue, and the tunnel system bottling up loot from AoE abilities can be problematic for loot collection. I personally enjoy the map overall, but I think the tunnel system leading to the cryopod would definitely benefit from some widening. 

 

I had a similar experience the times I played it. The actual defense room is excellent, but the tunnels slow down enemies and create some major chokepoints that reduce the game to vortex camping (defense is this anyways)

 

They either need wider tunnels, or more tunnels. 

[[DE]Scinbed]

I had a similar experience the times I played it. The actual defense room is excellent, but the tunnels slow down enemies and create some major chokepoints that reduce the game to vortex camping (defense is this anyways)

 

They either need wider tunnels, or more tunnels. 

This is something that should be addressed soon.

 

First of all, there have been some fixes made to the spawn areas, allowing the enemies to spawn in a more spread out fashion. This should help cases where you'd see a large cluster of enemies all coming from one side of the map, or end up entering through one tunnel.

 

In addition, three extra passages have been carved into the side and back of the pod defense room. This allows enemies to spawn a little closer and sometimes surprise you from behind if you aren't paying attention, whereas currently you are pretty safe up on the containers or back platforms.

 

The basic design pass has been done and the improvements to spawning are already pretty apparent. Once the art has been tidied up to match the rest of the map, we'll release it to the wild, hopefully in time for next week's hotfix.

[Paradoxbomb]

Personally I find the placement of the Cryopod is a bit of a detriment to the new map. I mean you have this claustrophobic and elaborate maze for the players to traverse but there's currently no reason to do so since the Cryopod itself is at the end of the maze in an open area where the Infested can only approach from one direction. It makes it too easy since they naturally bottleneck themselves. Not to mention you have to wait for them to come to you, which is a bit boring considering how long of a trek they have to go through. The only time you are gonna go into the maze is when an enemy gets stuck or if you just get bored of waiting for them to show up.

 

IMO, the Cryopod should've been placed in the center of the maze (or even been capable of showing/up moving to a random spot as with some of the newer defense maps). That way the players are actually required to navigate the maze and cover as many positions as they can since the infested can approach from any direction and don't have to run across the entirety of the map to reach you.

 

Otherwise, I think the new map is great, it looks nice and it has a claustrophobic labyrinth feel to it that suits the infested much better than the multi-leveled, wide open space of the old Xini map, it's just not being used to it's fullest potential as of now.

 

 

P.S. Also there's a serious delay between spawns at times, but I don't think this is an issue with the map itself so you can't judge the tileset based on that.

Edited August 8, 2014 by Paradoxbomb

[vaugahn]

This is something that should be addressed soon.

 

First of all, there have been some fixes made to the spawn areas, allowing the enemies to spawn in a more spread out fashion. This should help cases where you'd see a large cluster of enemies all coming from one side of the map, or end up entering through one tunnel.

 

In addition, three extra passages have been carved into the side and back of the pod defense room. This allows enemies to spawn a little closer and sometimes surprise you from behind if you aren't paying attention, whereas currently you are pretty safe up on the containers or back platforms.

 

The basic design pass has been done and the improvements to spawning are already pretty apparent. Once the art has been tidied up to match the rest of the map, we'll release it to the wild, hopefully in time for next week's hotfix.

 

That's awesome! I'm looking forward to seeing it in action. The passages on the side and back will be excellent. 

[Brahmastra]

In addition, three extra passages have been carved into the side and back of the pod defense room. This allows enemies to spawn a little closer and sometimes surprise you from behind if you aren't paying attention, whereas currently you are pretty safe up on the containers or back platforms.

 

yeah saw that one coming T__T

[Austerity]

Boring map is boring. Fix? Add more holes. :(

 

At the very least rain infested down on us from beautiful and useless 20meter ceiling

[AnkyPanky]

Boring map is boring. Fix? Add more holes. :(

 

At the very least rain infested down on us from beautiful and useless 20meter ceiling

Have them jump down.. land on you and than!

 

A big kiss... :>

[[DE]Scinbed]

IMO, the Cryopod should've been placed in the center of the maze (or even been capable of showing/up moving to a random spot as with some of the newer defense maps). That way the players are actually required to navigate the maze and cover as many positions as they can since the infested can approach from any direction and don't have to run across the entirety of the map to reach you.

An idea I've been tossing around is actually having two additional "invulnerable" defense points, which would be placed deeper within the map. These would be linked somehow to the cryopod, and when damaged below, say, 25%, would make the cryopod more vulnerable to enemy attacks. Enemies would split their focus between each of the defense points depending on their health values, meaning players would have to lock down more of the map than they do currently.

 

Of course this would make the map extra hard for solo players, so perhaps it would be the single cryopod setup in that case.

 

Thoughts?

[Senketsu_]

An idea I've been tossing around is actually having two additional "invulnerable" defense points, which would be placed deeper within the map. These would be linked somehow to the cryopod, and when damaged below, say, 25%, would make the cryopod more vulnerable to enemy attacks. Enemies would split their focus between each of the defense points depending on their health values, meaning players would have to lock down more of the map than they do currently.

 

Of course this would make the map extra hard for solo players, so perhaps it would be the single cryopod setup in that case.

 

Thoughts?

That would add SOOOOOOOO much more fun and team tactics to defense!! I love it!!!!!

[DarknightK]

An idea I've been tossing around is actually having two additional "invulnerable" defense points, which would be placed deeper within the map. These would be linked somehow to the cryopod, and when damaged below, say, 25%, would make the cryopod more vulnerable to enemy attacks. Enemies would split their focus between each of the defense points depending on their health values, meaning players would have to lock down more of the map than they do currently.

 

Of course this would make the map extra hard for solo players, so perhaps it would be the single cryopod setup in that case.

 

Thoughts?

 

This is probably the better of the two, since this would also require an implementation of the same mechanic into previous defense maps. Plus, it does doubly with Solo play.

 

 

However, a "door locking" mechanism (players must hack a nearby panel to lock a door) that is purely optional would be very interesting to add in Defense maps. This way, player's can lock down a certain hallway or create an artificial choke point to combat the infested with.

 

In return, the doors would operate on timers (visible on the door model as a dojo-like timer with the neat little circle-thingy) that would require players to constantly relock doors for maximum effectiveness.

 

It isn't a bad idea though, although I assume by "being more vulnerable to enemy attacks" you meant the cryopod takes more damage. I thought it was a nod towards "more paths open for enemies to ambush the cryopod".

 

There's my $100, anyways.

[vaugahn]

An idea I've been tossing around is actually having two additional "invulnerable" defense points, which would be placed deeper within the map. These would be linked somehow to the cryopod, and when damaged below, say, 25%, would make the cryopod more vulnerable to enemy attacks. Enemies would split their focus between each of the defense points depending on their health values, meaning players would have to lock down more of the map than they do currently.

 

Of course this would make the map extra hard for solo players, so perhaps it would be the single cryopod setup in that case.

 

Thoughts?

 

That would be interesting. That "maze" area feels a bit underused, which is unfortunate because it's a very cool combat area. 

 

Additional objectives in the maze would be good, but then solo players would have some serious trouble. Maybe if the objectives in the maze were optional somehow, and defending them gave you an advantage? Like, computer consoles that can be brought online and then defended to make turrets attack the infested in the main room, or something like that. A little extra objective for people who can afford to split their attention.

[Cleesus]

I like that last idea

[Veryk]

Make it a different type of mission with different rewards. Thin out any mission type you think is to common. And the new Infested tile set is WONDERFUL. Don't tell me otherwise.

[-----.__.G.0.D.__.-----]

An idea I've been tossing around is actually having two additional "invulnerable" defense points, which would be placed deeper within the map. These would be linked somehow to the cryopod, and when damaged below, say, 25%, would make the cryopod more vulnerable to enemy attacks. Enemies would split their focus between each of the defense points depending on their health values, meaning players would have to lock down more of the map than they do currently.

 

Of course this would make the map extra hard for solo players, so perhaps it would be the single cryopod setup in that case.

 

Thoughts?

Bad idea, that sounds  quite similar to a mobile defense mission.

 

How about incorporating a moving cryopod like the Dark Sector map? Like an elevator Cryopod that in each area it moves to has different defense layouts?

[Pandoran_Stallion]

An idea I've been tossing around is actually having two additional "invulnerable" defense points, which would be placed deeper within the map. These would be linked somehow to the cryopod, and when damaged below, say, 25%, would make the cryopod more vulnerable to enemy attacks. Enemies would split their focus between each of the defense points depending on their health values, meaning players would have to lock down more of the map than they do currently.

 

Of course this would make the map extra hard for solo players, so perhaps it would be the single cryopod setup in that case.

 

Thoughts?

I worry about Hallway Heroism with this, since it spreads enemies and players. Maybe have Tumors that buff all enemies damage, health, or shields pop up randomly instead. This means you still have to go in and destroy the tumor, adding a bit more to that maze. Enemies are made more potent and the stakes are higher to destroy the tumor, so I think this may solve the hallway hero issue that may come with defending instead of attacking.

[MDRLOz]

Thoughts?

That is a great idea. Defense end up being very static. Having other points away from the main area would shake things up a bit. 

 

Players set to slow would need this disabled down to a normal defense mode though as it would not be fair on them.

[43Emprah]

An idea I've been tossing around is actually having two additional "invulnerable" defense points, which would be placed deeper within the map. These would be linked somehow to the cryopod, and when damaged below, say, 25%, would make the cryopod more vulnerable to enemy attacks. Enemies would split their focus between each of the defense points depending on their health values, meaning players would have to lock down more of the map than they do currently.

 

Of course this would make the map extra hard for solo players, so perhaps it would be the single cryopod setup in that case.

 

Thoughts?

I like it, maybe as a separate mission type?

I am still waiting for a Gauntlet style mission type that cycles objectives. I'd love to have to defend a crypod,for 10 waves, and then collect data and run a mobile defense mission, and then have a boss fight against Jackal/Heyena or something like that. 

I imagine that multiple game modes in a single mission would be hell on the procedural generation, though. I can dream right?

[NikolaiLev]

An idea I've been tossing around is actually having two additional "invulnerable" defense points, which would be placed deeper within the map. These would be linked somehow to the cryopod, and when damaged below, say, 25%, would make the cryopod more vulnerable to enemy attacks. Enemies would split their focus between each of the defense points depending on their health values, meaning players would have to lock down more of the map than they do currently.

 

Of course this would make the map extra hard for solo players, so perhaps it would be the single cryopod setup in that case.

 

Thoughts?

 

Yes please.  Defense is already really boring.