Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

SquirmyBurrito

De, Please Remove The Friendship Doors.

Recommended Posts

- Because they're already in the game and it would be too much of a hassle to remove them. (speculation)

- No one I guess, my understanding is that the doors were implemented because alot of the community complained about being paired with rushers and losing out on XP. 

- I guess its not a matter of who likes them. Object X and Y are added to the game, Too many people dislike object x because reasons therefore object X is removed. No one really cares about Object Y so it stays in the game. 

 

Hypothetically, DE remove the doors, what would the results be? be they positive or negative.

 

-Being a hassle is no excuse. This game is in beta, this is the time for things like these to get removed.

-And their implementation didn't do anything to solve the problem. All it does is prevent some players from having fun throughout the mission.

-Object Y (being the friendship doors) has a crowd that dislikes them in addition to a crowd that is indifferent. So why shouldn't they be removed? 

 

The results would be as I stated before. No more gameplay halts. No more annoyance for those who find them annoying. Their removal is all positive. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since this thread doesn't seem to really be going anywhere, here is a quick summary:

Why people think co-op doors should be removed

1. They are not effective at stoping rushers because (1) after opening them, the rusher just speeds off again, (2) only two people are needed to open them (they don't help person 3 & 4 catch up)

2. They are neither fun nor beneficial to anyone.

3. They are annoying even in single player games.

4. So they can be replaced with something else.

Why people think co-op doors should stay

1. They are effective at stoping rushers because ???

2. Just play solo instead. (sorry guys, but this isn't an actual reason for them to stay)

3. I personally do not think that it is a problem.

4. OP is trying to ruin the game for non-rushers.

5. They are a fun mechanic. (wait, no one actually said this)

 

I will include this in the OP under the TL;DR, thanks for the summary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

-Being a hassle is no excuse. This game is in beta, this is the time for things like these to get removed.

-And their implementation didn't do anything to solve the problem. All it does is prevent some players from having fun throughout the mission.

-Object Y (being the friendship doors) has a crowd that dislikes them in addition to a crowd that is indifferent. So why shouldn't they be removed? 

 

The results would be as I stated before. No more gameplay halts. No more annoyance for those who find them annoying. Their removal is all positive. 

 

- Fair point

- Also a fair point, However their implementation may not have been to solve the problem but to show the community that DE was working on it.

- There is no real reason why F-doors shouldn't be removed. 

 

 I can't find much of an argument other than personal preference. Though I do wonder what will happen if they are removed, Maybe emotes will be implemented as people wait at extraction for their teammates.

 

Thanks for the lengthy distraction, Back to assignments now :( 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Speedrunners have already caused DE to streamline all the levels, remove all the sidepaths and branching rooms, remove most of the treasure rooms, cut down on the number of cool RNG events that added to the flavor of the game and turn most pub missions into what are essentially a racing game.

 

Why do you have to take away doors that force you to sit your impatient @$$ down for all of ten seconds, too? Maybe the doors are fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well if they do remove FDs I think they should do something for the non-rushers as well like increase the extraction time so they wouldn't feel like they have to rush to the exit because of the rushers.

 

Rushers
+Get to the end without obstructions
+Can stand at the extraction doing whatever
-have to wait longer to extract
 
non Rushers
+Don't feel like they have to rush and catch up
+More time to do whatever
-may not get any exp

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure that their removal would fix anything, if you rush and complete the objective while the rest of the squad is who-knows-where, you still have to wait at extraction for non-rushers to catch up.

And because they are never even given a chance to catch up the wait would be even longer, unless you have another rusher keeping pace, but then FD is only a 3 second distraction and you still have to wait at extraction.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DE hasn't (IIRC) said anything recently about being for or against rushers. The fact that coptering still exists (and that DE seems to be avoiding the removal of it) hints that they may not be against rushers. The game (in its current state) encourages rushing.

How do they benefit non-rushers? Forcing a rusher to stand around for a bit while someone catches up isn't benefitting the non-rushers as the second that door is open that rusher is going back to rushing. Meaning you stopped that players gameplay for no reason other than to momentarily cause at least two players to re-group.

I think that the main reason for why coptering still exists is because it got popular with the players fast and to avoid negative feedback from the players they left it in. The friendship door has also been in the game for a pretty long time. The game in its current state does not encourage rushing to me. I take my time in a mission by looking around for loot, killing things or making sure the team is doing well. When i first played Warframe i used to play like this but as i got more experienced and rose in mastery rank i started rushing. Eventually i hit a wall of boredom with Warframe and only kept track of the game while occasionally popping back into the game to get that good alert or other important stuff. I started playing Warframe more seriously again with the release of update 13. I stopped rushing as well as i realised it would only dry up my experince with Warframe quicker so i started taking my time in missions. A person can chose to rush but i dont think the game is suited for that style of play as there is hardly any enjoyment in it for me at least and it also seems odd to ignore enemies given the lethality of the Tenno. I also said in my first post how they benefit the non-rushers. Sure the rushers may go back to rushing as soon as the door is open but they still had to wait and regroup with at least one other Tenno and thats its purpose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why people think co-op doors should stay

1. They are effective at stoping rushers because ???

2. Just play solo instead. (sorry guys, but this isn't an actual reason for them to stay)

3. I personally do not think that it is a problem.

4. OP is trying to ruin the game for non-rushers.

5. They are a fun mechanic. (wait, no one actually said this)

1 If rushers are complaining then maybe they do fit their role but the word effective is debatable indeed

2 It is not an argument for the frienship door, it's about rushing mentality, if you're ignoring your team you are playing solo, so for solo play there is a solo option, and for team play there is a multiplayer option.

Additionnally if you know there is something in multiplayer that bother you so much while you get rid of the problem by playing solo, you can play solo.

3 -

4 funny

5 ?

 

Why people think co-op doors should be removed

1. They are not effective at stoping rushers because (1) after opening them, the rusher just speeds off again, (2) only two people are needed to open them (they don't help person 3 & 4 catch up)

2. They are neither fun nor beneficial to anyone.

3. They are annoying even in single player games.

4. So they can be replaced with something else.

1 depends of the situation

2 depends of who want what

3 opinion

4 I don't see suggestions but I didn't read much

 

- There is no real reason why F-doors shouldn't be removed. 

 

 I can't find much of an argument other than personal preference. Though I do wonder what will happen if they are removed, Maybe emotes will be implemented as people wait at extraction for their teammates.

 

If F-doors were made for stopping rushers and don't effectively stop rushers, there is no reason to keep them indeed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Speedrunners have already caused DE to streamline all the levels, remove all the sidepaths and branching rooms, remove most of the treasure rooms, cut down on the number of cool RNG events that added to the flavor of the game and turn most pub missions into what are essentially a racing game.

 

Why do you have to take away doors that force you to sit your impatient @$$ down for all of ten seconds, too? Maybe the doors are fun.

 

DE didn't remove those, don't make claims that are demonstrably false. In one of the recent updates they even increased the chances of rooms branching into multiple paths. The did (seemingly) get rid of Lotus' habit of popping in and changing the objective, but I'm fairly certain that had nothing to do with rushers.

 

Do you find the doors fun? Explain. I want the doors removed because they do not benefit anyone. You catching up with me for a second doesn't benefit you. Me having to wait at the door for a while doesn't benefit you (unless you get your rocks off from watching others 'suffer'). It damn sure doesn't benefit me. The door does nothing but temporarily halt everyone's advances.

 

I think that the main reason for why coptering still exists is because it got popular with the players fast and to avoid negative feedback from the players they left it in. The friendship door has also been in the game for a pretty long time. The game in its current state does not encourage rushing to me. I take my time in a mission by looking around for loot, killing things or making sure the team is doing well. When i first played Warframe i used to play like this but as i got more experienced and rose in mastery rank i started rushing. Eventually i hit a wall of boredom with Warframe and only kept track of the game while occasionally popping back into the game to get that good alert or other important stuff. I started playing Warframe more seriously again with the release of update 13. I stopped rushing as well as i realised it would only dry up my experince with Warframe quicker so i started taking my time in missions. A person can chose to rush but i dont think the game is suited for that style of play as there is hardly any enjoyment in it for me at least and it also seems odd to ignore enemies given the lethality of the Tenno. I also said in my first post how they benefit the non-rushers. Sure the rushers may go back to rushing as soon as the door is open but they still had to wait and regroup with at least one other Tenno and thats its purpose.

 

Something being popular has not always been enough to get DE to leave it in the game (see pre-nerf Acrid/Brakk). The Friendship doors have overstayed their welcome. The game does encourage rushing as taking it slow doesn't net you enough extra mats and credits to make that one run of yours yield more than two runs of mine that still take less time. The underlined was very opinionated and irrelevant. I already addressed your claimed benefits. They don't exist. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 If rushers are complaining then maybe they do fit their role but the word effective is debatable indeed

2 It is not an argument for the frienship door, it's about rushing mentality, if you're ignoring your team you are playing solo, so for solo play there is a solo option, and for team play there is a multiplayer option.

Additionnally if you know there is something in multiplayer that bother you so much while you get rid of the problem by playing solo, you can play solo.

3 -

4 funny

5 ?

 

1 depends of the situation

2 depends of who want what

3 opinion

4 I don't see suggestions but I didn't read much

 

If F-doors were made for stopping rushers and don't effectively stop rushers, there is no reason to keep them indeed.

 

1. If their job was to stop rushing, they're failing. If their job was to annoy players (not only rushers) then they're succeeding with some and still failing with others.

2. The flaw in this argument is that not all rushers ignore their teammates. Rushers can and do collaborate with other rushers when needed. Just as non-rushers often act as lone wolves that were forced together by similar game pacing. Playing solo doesn't get rid of the problem. The doors still spawn and require me to stop what I'm doing to go interact with the panel before I can continue. As I said, they benefit no one and are not actually stopping rushers from rushing (for more than the amount of time needed for a second player to catch up). 

3.

4.

5.

 

1. No it doesn't. Once the door is open a rusher can go back to rushing.

2. No it doesn't. They don't benefit anyone, and I'm fairly sure that no one actually thinks the doors are fun. At most they find the irritation it causes other players fun. And that is no reason for them to remain.

3. They are annoying or the player is indifferent towards them.

4. Suggestions for replacements can come afterwards. What matters right now is removing these things.

 

Agreed. The same technically applies to other gameplay aspects too, but those already have dozens of threads.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DE didn't remove those, don't make claims that are demonstrably false. In one of the recent updates they even increased the chances of rooms branching into multiple Something being popular has not always been enough to get DE to leave it in the game (see pre-nerf Acrid/Brakk). The Friendship doors have overstayed their welcome. The game does encourage rushing as taking it slow doesn't net you enough extra mats and credits to make that one run of yours yield more than two runs of mine that still take less time. The underlined was very opinionated and irrelevant. I already addressed your claimed benefits. They don't exist. 

They do but it appears to be more a matter of opinion to you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

honestly i think they benefit and obstruct people at the same time and at this point they are their as the enemies  security door or something. basically their their so serve as a barrier for the enemy like you would in an actual military facility or something.

 

 

so in response to your feedback i think it won't make a difference to remove or keep them. if you make it to extraction you'll still have to wait for the others but if they stay then you'll have to wait at the door. 

 

from my experience playing the game i have never had a problem with these, maybe because i consider myself a hybrid between a rusher and non-rusher so i can't really tell the problem with them.

 

also the argument about rushing and playing solo are relevant because that's the purpose of these co-op doors and playing solo or having friends play with you is the solution to these. 

 

 

now from a rushers point of view, not killing the enemy and just bolting to the objective and then to extraction does leave enemies to kill to the rest of the group, BUT, the spawning system in the game will begin to spawn enemies  in the rooms ahead of you resulting in less enemies behind you(im not going into this because it can be complicated but its like thinning something out to the point where is almost gone but its wider)    

 

 

IMO rushing to the objective and then to extraction can not possibly be fun but maybe it's the speed and flexibility of the tenno that intrigues you? not sure but i hope a solution can be made where players with your play style can still have fun and still have the group stick together(a guy can dream)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Argument seems logical. Giving slow players 3 extra seconds of kill time really does nothing. 

 

 

Do understand he just disproved this. 

Stopping the rusher doesn't magically make the level he has breezed through up until the door any more filled with enemies. And by the time the door gets open, the slow player has about half of a map tile before the Rusher is far enough ahead to invalidate all the work the door has done in preventing him from going on. In fact, it's probably hurting the slow player who is now running in to freshly emptied rooms instead of rooms that might have enemies re-entering it after a significant amount of time. 

yes im realizing that and it makes sense but we'll never have a solution to this because if he manages to get to extraction he'll still have the long wait and it may take longer if the slow guys take thier time to take down every single enemy soooooooo its a dilemma  :/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't understand why you just don't solo if you want to play selfish like that. You're ruining the game for other people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They do but it appears to be more a matter of opinion to you.

 

Except it isn't a matter of opinion because it has already been established that at best these doors do absolutely nothing. If these benefits exist then prove it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Their purpose is not to stop rushing, but to prevent a single rusher in a slow moving group from causing trouble for the other 3.  Once there are 2 rushers, they are at the very least equal in number to the slower moving players, and it's no longer a clear case of a minority causing trouble for the majority. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. If their job was to stop rushing, they're failing. If their job was to annoy players (not only rushers) then they're succeeding with some and still failing with others.

2. The flaw in this argument is that not all rushers ignore their teammates. Rushers can and do collaborate with other rushers when needed. Just as non-rushers often act as lone wolves that were forced together by similar game pacing. Playing solo doesn't get rid of the problem. The doors still spawn and require me to stop what I'm doing to go interact with the panel before I can continue. As I said, they benefit no one and are not actually stopping rushers from rushing (for more than the amount of time needed for a second player to catch up). 

3.

4.

5.

1 Depend of what people think should be the result from the doors themselves, if just making people stop at some checkpoint is enough for them to be satisfied or whatever.

The basis for supposedly anti-rush mechanic might be that going solo rush has no point since there is a door that block the way where you have to wait for others.

So it doesn't really stop rusher but maybe they are an incentive for people to work as a team.

Sidenote : while it's often said I don't remember DE having said the doors are anti rush mechanic (it's possible something had been mentionned in a stream or something but I'm not sure)

2 If it's about rushers collaborating with other rushers then theses rushers are still ignoring their teammates, in fact if there is more than one rusher those doors are no problems (relatively speaking)

Second part is somewhat true but it's an opinion I guess complaining over having to go on a panel is a bit over the top IMO, there are also elevators and slow corpus door, and georelief, stairs, parkour, you want a long highway? also what you are complaining about from the door is having to wait others no?

The thing about non-rushers setting a pace is a good point but it's a bit complicated, not talking about it right now.

 

 

1. No it doesn't. Once the door is open a rusher can go back to rushing.

2. No it doesn't. They don't benefit anyone, and I'm fairly sure that no one actually thinks the doors are fun. At most they find the irritation it causes other players fun. And that is no reason for them to remain.

3. They are annoying or the player is indifferent towards them.

4. Suggestions for replacements can come afterwards. What matters right now is removing these things.

1 same as above 1, additionally you seem to deeply associate a gap situation where there are 3 slowpokes and 1 fastest rusher of the year with 10 min wait difference, that's what I meant by "depend of the situation."

2 a "fun" door would be interesting(?), the benefit is what you said if someone think that the door are good to stop (annoy) people then it's benefit.

3 yes

4 - dude more respect pliz these are not "things" these are friendship doors of love and justice

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 Depend of what people think should be the result from the doors themselves, if just making people stop at some checkpoint is enough for them to be satisfied or whatever.

The basis for supposedly anti-rush mechanic might be that going solo rush has no point since there is a door that block the way where you have to wait for others.

So it doesn't really stop rusher but maybe they are an incentive for people to work as a team.

Sidenote : while it's often said I don't remember DE having said the doors are anti rush mechanic (it's possible something had been mentionned in a stream or something but I'm not sure)

2 If it's about rushers collaborating with other rushers then theses rushers are still ignoring their teammates, in fact if there is more than one rusher those doors are no problems (relatively speaking)

Second part is somewhat true but it's an opinion I guess complaining over having to go on a panel is a bit over the top IMO, there are also elevators and slow corpus door, and georelief, stairs, parkour, you want a long highway? also what you are complaining about from the door is having to wait others no?

The thing about non-rushers setting a pace is a good point but it's a bit complicated, not talking about it right now.

 

 

1 same as above 1, additionally you seem to deeply associate a gap situation where there are 3 slowpokes and 1 fastest rusher of the year with 10 min wait difference, that's what I meant by "depend of the situation."

2 a "fun" door would be interesting(?), the benefit is what you said if someone think that the door are good to stop (annoy) people then it's benefit.

3 yes

4 - dude more respect pliz these are not "things" these are friendship doors of love and justice

1.  They don't provide incentive to work as a team. Because they don't add value to the team experience. Showing up before or after another player to the door has no significant effect on teamwork. And stopping players momentarily at a checkpoint is a worthless goal for them, regardless if that's the intention of them because then that intention is wrong as well.  

2. At the point where we have at least half a team players rushing then the onus is equal to each individual faction. The slow players are just as guilty for not keeping up as the rushers are for not slowing down. They're just a mild annoyance at that point, adding nothing.

1. A rusher even moderately ahead of his team will cause the same effect as one farther ahead than him. There is no depends on the situation. 

2. A fun door would be interesting, it should encouraging moving through it as a group and make it more difficult to do without a partner/full team of the players

3 indeed

4. I don't want a hug from one of them. That would hurt. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hate to be "that guy" but whenever I get rushers I pray and HOPE there's friendship doors, that way I can just take my precious time getting there, forcing the rusher to wait.

 

When you're playing missions with me, you're playing WARFRAME, not SPEEDFRAME.

 

My cell; my rules.

 

In the instance I get 2+ rushers, it's me who's at loss and I don't really care much to complain about it to them. Rushing is a problem and will always be a problem no matter what. DE can incorporate so many anti-rushing mechanics and rushers will still figure a way to more or less bypass it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

also the argument about rushing and playing solo are relevant because that's the purpose of these co-op doors and playing solo or having friends play with you is the solution to these. 

 

The reason why the solo argument is irrelevant is because it's being proposed as a solution to a problem that it doesn't solve. I would know from first hand experience because I, in fact, do play solo quite often. However, that fact does absolutely nothing to make co-op doors less annoying in the cases when I play multiplayer. Also, co-op doors don't just go away when playing solo, they are still there and still annoying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't understand why you just don't solo if you want to play selfish like that. You're ruining the game for other people.

 

Already been addressed. Please read the entire OP before responding next time.

 

I hate to be "that guy" but whenever I get rushers I pray and HOPE there's friendship doors, that way I can just take my precious time getting there, forcing the rusher to wait.

 

When you're playing missions with me, you're playing WARFRAME, not SPEEDFRAME.

 

My cell; my rules.

 

In the instance I get 2+ rushers, it's me who's at loss and I don't really care much to complain about it to them. Rushing is a problem and will always be a problem no matter what. DE can incorporate so many anti-rushing mechanics and rushers will still figure a way to more or less bypass it.

 

And this right here is another problem that these doors create. They force one player to momentarily halt his/her fun so that another player's choice can completely override his'/her's. And I've already addressed this mentality. You're getting some measure of enjoyment out of the idea of another player having their fun taken away until you decide to go press the 'okay go back to having fun' button.

 

Why should the game give you the power to decide how that mission should progress?

>Implying rushing isn't playing warframe.

 

It isn't your cell, so why should they be forced to adhere to your rules?

 

Rushing isn't a problem. It is a perfectly valid method of play that is far more efficient than the slow and steady method. DE shouldn't be focusing on creating Anti-rush mechanics, they should instead focus on creating actual incentives (the carrot on the stick) to sticking more closely together and even going so far as to wait for that one slow guy who feels the need to open every container.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The reason why the solo argument is irrelevant is because it's being proposed as a solution to a problem that it doesn't solve. I would know from first hand experience because I, in fact, do play solo quite often. However, that fact does absolutely nothing to make co-op doors less annoying in the cases when I play multiplayer. Also, co-op doors don't just go away when playing solo, they are still there and still annoying.

well theres no waiting

 

but like i said theirs no real solution because whatever DE does to it their will always be controversy 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well theres no waiting

 

but like i said theirs no real solution because whatever DE does to it their will always be controversy 

 

Not really. Considering the overwhelming (relevant) reaction to these doors is either annoyance or indifference, removing them shouldn't bother anyone who isn't of the troll mentality. I'm still waiting for that one random person to pop in here and tell me how much they love these doors and how they think they're fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lol, oh well. I'll continue to do as I do, rushers can continue to do as they please. You and anyone else against that mentality will just have to deal with it until when or if DE feels we're "griefing" these rushers by progressing at a normal pace and incorporate some sort of middle ground feature that benefits both parties.

 

For the time being until or if that time ever comes, I'll feel unfortunate for anyone rushing through missions with the chance of those doors to ever land into one with me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.