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De, Please Remove The Friendship Doors.


SquirmyBurrito
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SquirmyBurrito, this post is not directed to you, but DE employees who might read your thread.

 

 

 

This whole problem of "I want to rush!" and "I want to actually see the rooms the mission is playing in!"  clashing just shows: Rushing is only an option because in Warframe, teamplay is unnecessary. Even though it's a coop game. 

Warframe is missing out; it could offer players a much more intense gameplay experience if people had to rely on each other. I could name a game that does this quite well, but won't do it on your forums ... and I think you know the MP scifi shooters out there anyway.

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These doors stop rushers from finishing a mission before the slower or newer players in a party are able to do anything. Also these doors help promote better teamwork in scenarios where your team goes down and you are the only one standing at the door since you have to go back and revive them in order to continue (unless your one of the scrublitists who dont care about co op and just wait for everyone to die). 

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Too dependant of personal interpretations, I already said why, depend of what is supposed to be the results from them and what people expects.

 

Because I am not talking about the doors but about rushing mentality, said in a previous post.

 

Talking about rushing mentality.

 

Rush mentality and some people's problems with it is not the purpose of this thread. If you wish to discuss rush mentality and your issues with it please create a separate thread.

 

then stop repeating yourself? you aren't countering any ones opinions on the matter with any valid points, your just saying the same answer (if you can call "i don't wanna play solo" an answer) over and over.  it's a very valid point that you could play solo since your just leaving the rest of your squad behind the whole time anyways. think for a second before disagreeing with someone because they don't share your ridiculous views.

 

Edit: i just read one of your other posts explaining that the one second interval between rushing caused by these doors is what aggravates you and i only have one answer to that problem and that is to learn a seconds worth of patience....jeesh

 

Actually I have.

 

No, why should I have to remain patient when the thing I'm being forced to wait on is unnecessary? It doesn't actually achieve anything positive.

 

These doors only benefit. You're the leader of the pack and can't get through? Let others catch up so they can actually play the game instead of being too slow to get kills. I'd actually like to see the door require all players to be near it for you to activate it.

 

You're assuming that I am going through killing everything before they get a chance to. You're also assuming that catching up with me for one room means (if I am killing everything) they'll suddenly have a better chance of killing stuff than they did at the beginning of the mission. Requiring the presence of all players would only make things worse and would give trolls the power to completely halt a mission's progress.

 

SquirmyBurrito, this post is not directed to you, but DE employees who might read your thread.

 

 

 

This whole problem of "I want to rush!" and "I want to actually see the rooms the mission is playing in!"  clashing just shows: Rushing is only an option because in Warframe, teamplay is unnecessary. Even though it's a coop game. 

Warframe is missing out; it could offer players a much more intense gameplay experience if people had to rely on each other. I could name a game that does this quite well, but won't do it on your forums ... and I think you know the MP scifi shooters out there anyway.

 

I actually agree with you.

 

These doors stop rushers from finishing a mission before the slower or newer players in a party are able to do anything. Also these doors help promote better teamwork in scenarios where your team goes down and you are the only one standing at the door since you have to go back and revive them in order to continue (unless your one of the scrublitists who dont care about co op and just wait for everyone to die). 

 

No they do not. Allowing players to catch up with me for several seconds does not guarantee that they'll remain caught up when the door opens and I go back to rushing.

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No they do not. Allowing players to catch up with me for several seconds does not guarantee that they'll remain caught up when the door opens and I go back to rushing.

You misunderstood my comment, without these doors a rusher can power through the entire mission and then reach extraction before anyone else is able to even shoot at an enemy. With them in place it allows players to explore, kill some enemies, and basically just enjoy the game without someone ruining it by completing a mission in 1-2 minutes, the only reason you may not see this is because some players think that they have to keep up with rushers without knowing that they can actually take their time.

 

And yes it does promote more teamwork because they punish the rushers who leave their team behind by not allowing them to progress further without everyone else, but as you have mentioned in your op it only takes 2 to open a door meaning if there is 2 rushers in the party the other half are going to be screwed which is why if anything the doors should require the entire team there in order to progress.

 

If you look at other successful co op games you will notice they contain similar features and most usually require the entire team to be present in order to move to the next part of the map.

 

If you do not like these doors then you can play solo or you can form a group for rushing before starting a mission. There is no need to try and remove a feature you do not like because it prevents you from playing your particular playstyle that screws everyone else over.

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You misunderstood my comment, without these doors a rusher can power through the entire mission and then reach extraction before anyone else is able to even shoot at an enemy. With them in place it allows players to explore, kill some enemies, and basically just enjoy the game without someone ruining it by completing a mission in 1-2 minutes, the only reason you may not see this is because some players think that they have to keep up with rushers without knowing that they can actually take their time.

 

And yes it does promote more teamwork because they punish the rushers who leave their team behind by not allowing them to progress further without everyone else, but as you have mentioned in your op it only takes 2 to open a door meaning if there is 2 rushers in the party the other half are going to be screwed which is why if anything the doors should require the entire team there in order to progress.

 

If you look at other successful co op games you will notice they contain similar features and most usually require the entire team to be present in order to move to the next part of the map.

 

If you do not like these doors then you can play solo or you can form a group for rushing before starting a mission. There is no need to try and remove a feature you do not like because it prevents you from playing your particular playstyle that screws everyone else over.

 

Two things that completely dismantle the argument in this first paragraph:

1. If the Rusher is already running through killing everything, the existence of this door isn't changing that.

2. The fact that extraction requires that more than one player (when there is a full party) be present at extraction before the timer starts already prevents the lone rusher from ending the mission early and preventing players from exploring. When there is a second rusher there isn't much of a change regardless of whether or not the door is there.

 

How does making one player stand around for a while promote teamwork? If anything it fosters negative feelings. I'm not going to get into how much I detest the idea of punishing rushers. Requiring the entire team's presence would grant trolls far too much power and would mean that even in the absence of a troll, one non-rusher/lost new player could force a group of three rushers to wait for an excessive length of time while the slower player takes his/her time catching up.

 

I can't think of another game that requires the presence of the entire team and that was better because of it. The closest examples I can think of featured the mechanic that Warframe extraction has, that being a timer.

 

I have already addressed this last line of reasoning and I refuse to repeat myself especially when you're taking such a selfish stance on it by assuming that your playstyle should have a higher priority than mine.

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He has already said rushers can work together if paired together, they only solo rush if given no other rushers. It is only solo play when the rusher is the only rusher. 2, 3, or 4 Rushers teams where the rushers cooperate to finish the mission as fast as possible is a thing. Just as much as slow/explorative teams exist to milk as much from a mission as possible. 

And again, since you do not understand this yet, but solo play does not solve the problem raised with friendship doors. They are meant to keep rushers from being separated from the other teammates, but they only do so for an incredibly limited time. 

This is a problem to fix, not for just rushers but for everyone because they are failing at what they intend to do. 

Real life example that has no bearing on randomly placed doors that is also not about their intention as a game element. 

If they are "high level security", then they should only be located outside of legitimate mission objective rooms.

 

 

I don't understand? I find that funny. Whatever the doors stand for in the end is irrelevant. They are a game mechanic to slow the pace for EVERYONE, because by existing, they serve a purpose for any team size. What should be happening is that those doors should be acting as a much longer lockout in order to give the enemy troops a LONGER time to kill the team.

 

What most of you don't see to get through your thick heads is the sheer massive amounts of tradeoffs that DE had to make in the combat mechanics in this game to cater to everyone, and the doors have just become an irrelevant bump in the road once everyone in a team becomes so powerful and fast enough with coptering and other speed abilities to allow a complete bypass of the mobs in the way.

 

What I stated is HOW the doors should work in the game. In a more realistic setting they would function exactly like the doors in the rescue missions. They would require more then a single player every time - and when people go solo, ANOTHER way would be provided, like a hatch, or broken panels - and those main doors would have heavy static defenses like turrets and heavier mobs, in other words, anytime a "friendship door" as you people are stupidly calling it, is encountered, it would be a medium-large fight, almost like a mini-boss encounter, and WOULD require a full team OR AT LEAST someone heavy build.

 

Until I read this post, it never even really occurred to me to split off from the team and "solo rush", and even if the OP had another person in the team to "rush" with him, it proves even more then they should just team up and not bring randoms along.

 

If removing the doors, as you said, changes NOTHING, then by the same token, leaving them in also changes NOTHING. They still serve the single function that it does at least give mobs extra time to kill players that want to stop to open them without cleaning some mobs out, as they should take FAR longer to open.

 

Remember "Suspicious Shipments" ?

 

Please remind me as to how these locked doors "serve no function". That mission is a perfect example of how the doors should function all the time, but was probably removed to make generic play more fast paced for everyone.

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I find elevators annoying. You stand around inside of them and don't do anything. Completely non-conducive to my playstyle. It is entirely possible to circumvent them in terms of map design, so they are completely, entirely pointless. Therefore, DE should remove all elevators from the game.

I refuse to repeat myself especially when you're taking such a selfish stance on it by assuming that your playstyle should have a higher priority than mine.

So why do you think your playstyle should have a higher priority?

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I find elevators annoying. You stand around inside of them and don't do anything. Completely non-conducive to my playstyle. It is entirely possible to circumvent them in terms of map design, so they are completely, entirely pointless. Therefore, DE should remove all elevators from the game.

So why do you think your playstyle should have a higher priority?

 

The elevators serve a purpose. I would appreciate the option to just wall run up the shaft and pry open the door though.

 

I never said that my playstyle should have a higher priority, are you even reading my posts?

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Why not just add a feature that allows rushers or people who are taking their time to spawn/vote them into  (i.e. host migrate) their own instance of the mission? That way the rusher(s) are split off from the person(s) who are exploring everything. The game could then advertise the open slots and fill them with people mid-mission.

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The elevators serve a purpose. I would appreciate the option to just wall run up the shaft and pry open the door though.

What purpose do elevators serve? You can make the map bigger without them. They are pointless and waste time. They should be removed. Remove all elevators.

I never said that my playstyle should have a higher priority, are you even reading my posts?

They didn't say it directly either, but that is the selfish assumption you are making.

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Oh yeah, and was "Friendship door" the official name for this? Just curious. I always thought it was "Handy spam device."

 

"Your teammate needs help to open a door"

 

...

 

"Your teammate needs help to open a door"

 

"Your teammate needs help to open a door"

"Your teammate needs help to open a door"

"Your teammate needs help to open a door"

"Your teammate needs help to open a door"

"Your teammate needs help to open a door"

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What purpose do elevators serve? You can make the map bigger without them. They are pointless and waste time. They should be removed. Remove all elevators.

They didn't say it directly either, but that is the selfish assumption you are making.

 

They allow the map to expand vertically. If you really want elevators removed, go make your own thread and stop derailing this one.

 

They didn't explicitly state it, but it was heavily implied via:

 

-Calling Rushing a problem.

-Telling me to play solo or not play PUGs.

-Acting as if I should conform to their playstyle.

 

Now please stop derailing this thread.

 

Oh yeah, and was "Friendship door" the official name for this? Just curious. I always thought it was "Handy spam device."

 

"Your teammate needs help to open a door"

 

...

 

"Your teammate needs help to open a door"

 

"Your teammate needs help to open a door"

"Your teammate needs help to open a door"

"Your teammate needs help to open a door"

"Your teammate needs help to open a door"

"Your teammate needs help to open a door"

 

Nah I don't know what their official name is.

 

Why not just add a feature that allows rushers or people who are taking their time to spawn/vote them into  (i.e. host migrate) their own instance of the mission? That way the rusher(s) are split off from the person(s) who are exploring everything. The game could then advertise the open slots and fill them with people mid-mission.

 

How about we don't give players the ability to kick other players from their game?

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How about we don't give players the ability to kick other players from their game?

 

They already sorta have this, if they're the host. Just monitor your computer's active IP/port connections and just choke one off and see if the player disconnects. If you're running with mostly friends, you can use process of elimination if you know what their IP addresses are. I often party up with one to two friends on average, so I could in essence have a 50% to 100% chance of knowing which connection to sever. (Not that I care enough to do it and I'm usually fine with rushers, since I'm probably in rush mode anyway if everyone else is rushing.)

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They already sorta have this, if they're the host. Just monitor your computer's active IP/port connections and just choke one off and see if the player disconnects. If you're running with mostly friends, you can use process of elimination if you know what their IP addresses are. I often party up with one to two friends on average, so I could in essence have a 50% to 100% chance of knowing which connection to sever. (Not that I care enough to do it and I'm usually fine with rushers, since I'm probably in rush mode anyway if everyone else is rushing.)

 

Not exactly the same but okay... Thanks for the information.

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I don't understand? I find that funny. Whatever the doors stand for in the end is irrelevant. They are a game mechanic to slow the pace for EVERYONE, because by existing, they serve a purpose for any team size. What should be happening is that those doors should be acting as a much longer lockout in order to give the enemy troops a LONGER time to kill the team.

You're making doors in to a mobile defence, essentially. We already have mobile defence for that. If people wanted mobile defence they would play it.

Warframe requires more coop yes but it is also a game about free and fast movement, sticking players in a single room for an extended period of time has been made an optional choice based on mission type. Not every mission is supposed to include throwing enemies at players while they defend a stationary objective. 

 

If removing the doors, as you said, changes NOTHING, then by the same token, leaving them in also changes NOTHING. They still serve the single function that it does at least give mobs extra time to kill players that want to stop to open them without cleaning some mobs out, as they should take FAR longer to open.

I said they do nothing, as such they are a nuisance. Removing them would have a positive improvement on gameplay flow. 

 

 

What purpose do elevators serve? You can make the map bigger without them. They are pointless and waste time. They should be removed. Remove all elevators.

(Most of this is speculation but possibilities include)Maps are of a restricted size actually, situated in a 3-D box. That's why when people get outside of the maps they occasionally end up in some strange void space, it is the boundaries within which a map can exist. Maps may push the boundaries and thus need to be situated vertically on top of itself in order to fit in the box. It's also easier on the map generation algorithm if they can cover sections that overlap with an elevator. Removing them would probably actually cause collisions between tiles in the current algorithm.

They also can function as a break from combat or a way to break from combat(Friendship doors don't really break combat since all the other doors are open, and they are not up to a player's choice), that is entirely up to the player's choice on how to use. There's also that one with windows that look down on the lower section in the corpus tilesets that are really useful for seeing a grineer/corpus invasion skirmish from a different perspective that is rather nice, but that might be a personal thing. 

If map generation gets improved, then yeah sure remove them they stop being needed. Until then, they are likely serving as behind the scenes fail safes and/or combat breakers for players.

Edited by LukeAura
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Since it seems too many people seem to have their horse blinkers in "I can't see any reasons, so obviously there is no reasons", then I want DE to actually state as an answer the reason why those doors were put in.

 

I have played plenty of games that have zones that are specifically designed as choke points, or movement limiting or even simply to apply extra pressure on timers during missions.

 

I'm sick and tired of seeing everyone try to apply their own logic as to why their personal version of a mechanic is far better then what is already in place, simply because it inconveniences their play style.

 

The double doors work exactly as they should when a new team of players with limited gear and mods are running through the level. Such a team has to normally stay together anyway, and can't simply run to those doors and trigger them without running into heavy fire, which require them to clean the area first and hence fight. I don't give a rats arse that your ultra specialized running build can get through in seconds, as I also used to have a build in Guild Wars to do the "Droknar's Forge Run" for people (feel free to Google it), and that was also "nerfed" and became much harder, but at least that was with agreement of all the team, not a single player deciding for everyone else.

 

"You're making doors in to a mobile defence, essentially. We already have mobile defence for that."

 

well, "You're making doors into a corridor, and we already have corridors for that". We also have stairs, so remove elevators? We also have shafts that can drops us directly down, and water and air blasts that go upwards, so remove stairs? We also have cutscenes to get us between tilesets, so remove shafts? And why bother with secret areas that require Parkour when we have Worm Hole and Switch Teleport and Rip Line, might as well just put chests full of stuff on flat ground.

 

Why are you and the OP even playing this game?

 

You just want all the mobs removed and a straight hallway all the way to the objective as well? Because that is apparently exactly what you and the OP want, by saying that you want to be able to run through everything and get to the end, and even stranger that you want to be able to do it in a team, without actually caring what the rest of the team might want. Maybe they want to kill things in order to, I don't know, have some fun, or get the mods they drop, and because this game is classified as a "shooter" and not a "runner" game, so you have one guy or two starting the end timer, and people that actually want to use their abilities and guns to actually kill stuff being the ones getting annoyed.

 

Did it actually occur to you that by rushing to avoid the annoyance of double doors and ending a mission early you are annoying the ones that don't rush or can't rush? Obviously not. Blinkers still on, hey.

 

Go play solo. In fact, please go away, because you seem to want to play a totally different game to Warframe, but seem convinced that you need to do it in Warframe AND with a team of three strangers, without caring what they want to do.

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The point of the door is to punish rushers with standing still and impotently staring at a console for 5 minutes while they wait on the rest of the group.  OP is mad, doors have done their job.

 

Rushers could take this time to contemplate the hilarity of their ego being tied to how fast they can run through hallways and kill braindead fodder. Or think about the slow, crushing, onset of your own mortality as you creep ever closer to your own death while waiting in front of the switch you had to run so fast too. Or maybe think of all the people somewhere else have fun in social settings, while you burn an image of a closed door into your retinas.

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i'm confused is soloing not an option for you? i mean speed running is all well and good, so if you go in with the game type is solo the coop doors will open with one click. so i'm a little confused as to the problem.

Is soloing not an option for slow pokes?

 

Imo this is what we need matchmaking filters for.  Ex let someone check a box that indicates they want to rush so that people are matched with people who want to play with people who want to play the same way.

 

 

Go play solo. In fact, please go away, because you seem to want to play a totally different game to Warframe, but seem convinced that you need to do it in Warframe AND with a team of three strangers, without caring what they want to do.

The irony about this statement is the staggering majority of players prefer to rush missions.

 

 

The point of the door is to punish rushers with standing still and impotently staring at a console for 5 minutes while they wait on the rest of the group.  OP is mad, doors have done their job.

 

Rushers could take this time to contemplate the hilarity of their ego being tied to how fast they can run through hallways and kill braindead fodder. Or think about the slow, crushing, onset of your own mortality as you creep ever closer to your own death while waiting in front of the switch you had to run so fast too. Or maybe think of all the people somewhere else have fun in social settings, while you burn an image of a closed door into your retinas.

The point of the door is to encourage people to stick together, same with the shared xp radius.  It is not intended to be a punishment though I can see how someone who is mad at rushers would wish that DE thinks like that.

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I'm really confused. Why is "rushing" a bad thing, exactly? Am I being told that there's a specific way you're supposed to play the game and there are mechanics in the game to facilitate this?

 

Rushing is not bad. Rushing is fine, and is even an encouraged mechanic on some type of maps. You can almost always tell the skill level of teams based on shields and health capacity, what weapons they have and what abilities they fire off, for example, having Volt cast speed on the entire team to get the hell out of Dodge after killing an objective. If an entire team is geared to speed-run a mission, then it's very likely it will happen automatically, people in Warframe can sync like that.

 

I'm not getting hot under the collar because rushing is bad, it's because the OP is stating that without acknowledging what the rest of the team might even want to do, he wants a mechanic removed that would even further facilitate that ability to decide for everyone, ie, just run to the end and start the exit timer, and gets annoyed when we state "play solo" when It's already evident that he is already "playing solo" if he chooses to do something like that.

 

If you get dumped in a team of new players, it's considered a courtesy to try ans stay together and also help keep them alive, and not say, Switch Teleport them into the middle of mobs and let them bleed out for a laugh, which is perfectly legal game play, same as rushing. If you join random missions, the idea of attempting to play as a team is generally taken as the norm, because if you intend to just do completely nonsensical things like hide in the rafters or fill the level full of Snow Globes and stop anyone from firing at anyone else, you are generally being a tool. Running to the end of a level and leaving everything alive for everyone else or being what they call a "hallway hero" is usually also frowned upon, but perfectly legal gameplay.

 

What I disagree with, is a gradual removal of ALL stopgaps in order to give more tools to these tools in order to get their way even easier, hence, big fat no to removal of two player Security Doors.

 

If they want a tool to fix that, it's already in the game. It's called "Solo Missions".

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Is soloing not an option for slow pokes?

 

Imo this is what we need matchmaking filters for.  Ex let someone check a box that indicates they want to rush so that people are matched with people who want to play with people who want to play the same way.

 

 

The irony about this statement is the staggering majority of players prefer to rush missions.

 

 

The point of the door is to encourage people to stick together, same with the shared xp radius.  It is not intended to be a punishment though I can see how someone who is mad at rushers would wish that DE thinks like that.

 

"The irony about this statement is the staggering majority of players prefer to rush missions"

 

AFTER they are geared to hell and back, and they are only doing the missions for Alert Rewards and similar mechanics. By this logic, once you have a single frame that is able to rush every mission in the game, you should just quit, as you have "won the game". Why bother playing? You obviously don't need new MODs, as you can already do everything you want to do in the game, that being racing to an exit. Trackmania is that way --->

 

I play a lot of extermination missions to - and this needs explaining, as your grasp on reality seems compromised - kill things, which is really the object of the game. If I had the ability to rush to the exit, why the hell even run the mission?

 

Is a sabotage mission to you a long corridor with 3 balloons to explode as you run by? Is a Capture mission an empty level with 3 mobs to kill?

 

Why are you even here?

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Imo this is what we need matchmaking filters for.  Ex let someone check a box that indicates they want to rush so that people are matched with people who want to play with people who want to play the same way.

 

This is something I need for DE to add in. I'm certain it would make a lot of people happy, and this thread wouldn't have to go on any longer.

Edited by Trowicia
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"The irony about this statement is the staggering majority of players prefer to rush missions"

 

AFTER they are geared to hell and back, and they are only doing the missions for Alert Rewards and similar mechanics. By this logic, once you have a single frame that is able to rush every mission in the game, you should just quit, as you have "won the game". Why bother playing? You obviously don't need new MODs, as you can already do everything you want to do in the game, that being racing to an exit. Trackmania is that way --->

 

I play a lot of extermination missions to - and this needs explaining, as your grasp on reality seems compromised - kill things, which is really the object of the game. If I had the ability to rush to the exit, why the hell even run the mission?

 

Is a sabotage mission to you a long corridor with 3 balloons to explode as you run by? Is a Capture mission an empty level with 3 mobs to kill?

 

Why are you even here?

Geared to hell lol.  All you need to rush is an amphis and some passable mods on your primary and the latter isn't even 100% necessary on many mission types.

 

Anyone that is exploring missions and taking their time has pretty low standards.  Warframe is fun but it can quickly get repititve and grindy so it shouldn't come as a surprise that most people prefer to rush missions.

 

Sabatoge and capture are among the most underplayed missions in the game lol, their a to b design is a great example of why people rush missions.

Edited by Aggh
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[snip]

 

Please go make your own thread and fill it will all this stuff.

 

The point of the door is to punish rushers with standing still and impotently staring at a console for 5 minutes while they wait on the rest of the group.  OP is assmad, doors have done their job.

 

Rushers could take this time to contemplate the hilarity of their ego being tied to how fast they can run through hallways and kill braindead fodder. Or think about the slow, crushing, onset of your own mortality as you creep ever closer to your own death while waiting in front of the switch you had to run so fast too. Or maybe think of all the people somewhere else have fun in social settings, while you burn an image of a closed door into your retinas.

 

>Assumptions

 

I'm not getting hot under the collar because rushing is bad, it's because the OP is stating that without acknowledging what the rest of the team might even want to do, he wants a mechanic removed that would even further facilitate that ability to decide for everyone, ie, just run to the end and start the exit timer, and gets annoyed when we state "play solo" when It's already evident that he is already "playing solo" if he chooses to do something like that.

 

If they want a tool to fix that, it's already in the game. It's called "Solo Missions".

 

When playing with a full party, the exit timer will only start after a second person has gotten to extraction. So in a mission with three non-rushers, me sitting at extraction does not negatively impact their experience beyond having to play with a little message telling them that I'm waiting. 

 

Playing solo doesn't fix the problem. I (and others) have already explained this to you. Calm down and actually read through what is being typed. You have a nasty habit of getting upset over things that no one says.

 

[snip]

 

Actually, I started rushing missions when I was low-mid tier. Because mods I wanted could be more easily obtained via Mob Defs, Defs, and Survivals. 

 

Why are we here? That should be obvious. We're here because we play the game. If you're trying to go into a discussion about how you don't like our approach to playing the game, go make your own thread.

 

This is all irrelevant. Please stay on topic.

 

 

This is something I need for DE to add in. I'm certain it would make a lot of people happy, and this thread wouldn't have to go on any longer.

 

Unless the doors were removed, this thread's existence would still be perfectly valid. This thread should have ended with my OP as there is/was no logical argument against what I said without further information from DE.

Edited by SquirmyBurrito
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