Why Are The Tenno Research Weapons So Bad?

[PeanutMonster]

We fight huge crowds of enemies in Warframe. Yet so many Tenno weapons in the clan research have small magazines and long reload speeds. It feels like to weapons were never designed for this game.

 

 

 

Pyrana - 5-round magazine, 4,2 firing rate and a 2-second reload. This thing reloads more than shoots. Damage is nothing impressive compared to Bronco Prime or Brakk.

 

Sybaris - Lever-action rifle (that alone makes this bad against crowds of enemies), 10 rounds per magazine but shoots 2 at a time. 2-second reload. At least this gun has high damage.

 

Attica - Slow firing rate, low damage, 8 rounds per magazine and a goddamn 2,8-second reload. This is definitely one of the worst weapons in the whole game.

 

Akstiletto - Looks nice on paper, but after you realize that every fully automatic dual wield weapon in the market are better than this, you never want to use these. For example, Akzani deals 30% more DPS than Akstiletto.

 

Venka - Oh wait these still exist? I thought everybody forgot these because I haven't seen anybody using these after the first week of the release of Venka. Low damage with low crit damage and chance as well. The problem with thes could be easily fixed by buffing the crit chance to 25%

 

Silva and Aegis - Even worse than Venka. A short sword with low damage, and a shield which gives no benefit to the wielder. (I know Silva and Aegis should be getting a buff sooner or later)

 

Nikana - Mediocre melee weapon. Nikana can at least be upgraded into an absolute beast of a weapon, Dragon Nikana.

 

Castanas - Nice damage, but the effort taken to deal it makes it pretty bad. With other weapons player can just aim and shoot. With these things you need to aim, shoot and time the explosion right. At least these have a tactical use as traps.

 

Lastly,

Tigris - I know this isn't a research weapon, but it shares the same problem with Sybaris, Attica and Pyrana: small magazine, long reload. You cannot fight crowds with this thing. Even with punch through mods, the spread is just too tight to make it deal damage to multiple enemies.

 

 

 

It feels like these weapons were created to showoff the skills of the graphics team of DE, since these weapons truly look amazing. Too bad that nobody uses them because of the fact how bad they are. Most of these weapons have very low sustained DPS, because of the very long reload. We get thrown huge crowds of enemies at us in every single missions, but only couple of these weapons can efficiently get through those crowds.

[izzatuw]

^

Same with Corpus, only worthawhile all around research is Grineer: Ogris, Ignis, Marelok, Jat Kittag. 2nd would go to Infested for Ichors, Scoliac, Synapse.

[PeanutMonster]

^

Same with Corpus, only worthawhile all around research is Grineer: Ogris, Ignis, Marelok, Jat Kittag. 2nd would go to Infested for Ichors, Scoliac, Synapse.

 

Phage is a beast as well. Corpus has Amprex and Quanta but that's it.

[izzatuw]

Phage is a beast as well. Corpus has Amprex and Quanta but that's it.

Forgot, thought Phage was market for a sec, mistook it for Drakgoon. Infested and Grineer are best. Currently, Market Tenno weapons are better.

Market has:

Vasto

Magnus

Lex

Galatine

D Nikana

Soma

[yles9056]

Pyrana - 5-round magazine, 4,2 firing rate and a 2-second reload. This thing reloads more than shoots. Damage is nothing impressive compared to Bronco Prime or Brakk.

 

I don't think it is appropriate to compare Pyrana to Brakk, one of the most difficult to acquire weapon in this game.

 

My opinion is that: Yes, these weapon do need some love, but instead of buffing their damage, give them some utility buff. Like reload speed buff, higher status chance or even some unique mechanism/passive that make them interesting and fun to play with.

Edited August 7, 2014 by yles9056

[PeanutMonster]

My opinion is that: Yes, these weapon do need some love, but instead of buffing their damage, give them some utility buff. Like reload speed buff, higher status chance or even some unique mechanism/passive that make them interesting and fun to play with.

 

Increasing status chance is not a buff at all. It does absolutely nothing since the status effects are so bad. All these weapons need a quicker reload and/or a bigger magazine. Akstiletto should be made more powerful than the fully automatic dual wield weapons in the market.

[SIDESTRE4M]

You should see Sybaris with punchthrough...

 

It needs work, but it's nice for taking out heavy units without wasting ammo.

 

Attica is sadly just a sad weapon.

 

You have some arguments, but I think you exaggerate at some points.

 

The real losers are currently weapons like Supra, who are just shadows of their former self, still having high crafting costs.

Edited August 7, 2014 by SIDESTRE4M

[PeanutMonster]

You should see Sybaris with punchthrough...

 

It needs work, but it's nice for taking out heavy units without wasting ammo.

 

Attica is sadly just a sad weapon.

 

You have some arguments, but I think you exaggerate at some points.

 

The real losers are currently weapons like Supra, who are just shadows of their former self, still having high crafting costs.

 

Supra's only problem is the slow projectile speed. Its max DPS is actually very close to Soma's.

 

[Dojutrek]

Tigris - I know this isn't a research weapon, but it shares the same problem with Sybaris, Attica and Pyrana: small magazine, long reload. You cannot fight crowds with this thing. Even with punch through mods, the spread is just too tight to make it deal damage to multiple enemies.

As I see it, this weapon is designed to be a Burst DPS weapon (sort of like the Sybaris or Castanas). Taking down larger targets is the focus of the Tigris, as the ability to hold the mouse down to fire a single shot and then release to fire the second one is a godsend for placing shots on specific targets. One can even roll to cancel the "Hold to fire" and run around freely, which adds a bit of diversity to the weapons overall effectiveness.

 

As for your points about the Tigris, the small magazine size isn't much of an issue when you consider its mechanics are designed around patience and placement. Lining up shots with Punch-through mods equipped and focusing down specific heavier targets. However, one can increase the max to four rounds if through the combined use of "Burdened Magazine" and "Ammo Stock", but this is mod intensive and costly. I feel that the better method is to increase the reload speed, which I'd suggest using a full "Tactical Pump" to reduce the reload time to 1.4 seconds. The mention of the Spread issues can be remedied through the use of "Vicious Spread", which increases the overall damage of the weapon (+90%) as well as increasing the spread of the weapon (to +60% more Spread).

 

I'd suggest looking at my build to get a better idea of modding for this weapon (With and Without a Catalyst): Tigris No Punch. This is a Cost saving build, with only expenditure being a Catalyst to get the desired effect. Hopefully, this helps a bit with the overall concept and use of the weapon.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Dojutrek

[SIDESTRE4M]

Supra's only problem is the slow projectile speed. Its max DPS is actually very close to Soma's.

 

 

Yeah, I know. But the problem is, these are only theoretical values. As you already pointed out, Soma is hitscan and Supras projectiles are extremely slow. The accuracy is bad too, while Soma is nearly an automatic Latron.

 

So if half of the bullets miss, its dps is halved. Missing with Soma is quite hard if you are a half-decent marksman.

[Othergrunty]

They wanted to fill the research with something (and perhaps restrict player access to new weapons to make them more attractive plat purchases), so almost everything new they designed was thrown into dojo research, while it would have previously ended up on the regular market.

The problem was that Dojo research was original just a fun way to give players a way to get their hands on enemy exclusive weapons (mainly anything except basic Grineer weapons) or weapons based on Infested organism.

 

Otherwise it was the rule of thumb that as Tenno, players had full access to every Tenno weapon, since it was their faction after all and the Lotus was doing all the logistics for them. New weapons also didn't necessarily meant better weapons. Just new weapons to fill the overall arsenal around the tiers that Scott implied exist between the weapons.

 

For example. A new shotgun could fill the niche of the lower end shotguns, instead of being THE new shotgun. Which is apperently what happend with the Tigris. It's the low end slash damage shotgun with the Drakgoon being it's mid tier counterpart.

 

However eventualy they ran into the problem that while new weapons were constantly released with the weekly Tenno reinforcement updates, they didn't had any weapons anymore for the Dojo research. Now Clans are important for the player numbers, so they wanted to throw them a bone.

They came up with the Tenno Research Lab where they could throw in new Tenno weapons as clan exclusive. Though since new weapons are one of the major money makers of this game, they still put these weapons on the market for plat purchase too.

 

As such it's easy to imagine that all the new Tenno weapons would have ended up on the regular market where they would have over time blended in with the other weapons into the tiers. But they didn't because the research labs need food.

 

Of course, that's just how the whole situation looks to me.

 

Still it all throws Tenno weapons into a bad light. They are supposed to be two steps away from being on the level of Orokin tech. Ranging from okay to great. But instead most of the research exclusive weapons range from mediocre to okay.

It's especialy perplexing when the old Mass Production models still hold up better. Why bother with the Attica when Boltor and Latron both still do a better job? Same with the Sybaris which is still outclassed by the Latron.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Othergrunty

[Guest Tehnoobshow]

The Pyrana is a basically a Detron for infested. Also, we're probably going to be getting an Akpyrana soon, which is probably why the single version sucks. The Sybaris is at least better than the Grinok in every way. We're probably getting a single stilleto as well, so we'll finally have a hitscan secondary with 40 accuracy

 

 

MOST IMPORTANTLY: All Tenno weapons will be PRIMED, which is the main reason why the regular versions suck so much.

[Redhux]

Hey

 

AkStiletto deserves a boost like Crit. Chance: 35% / Crit. Damage: 3.5x. That would help it to be interesting. Because they're really limited actually.

They're reaching their limit on Corpus 25+, where they require a full magazine to kill a strong corpus. Annoying. Even after 4 Forma and maxed mods.

 

Sybaris... Not enough rounds in the evil small magazine... Too low Crit. Chance %.
 

Supra deserves a real update also... On many points.

 

Synapse! Ah, what to say... Please, once and for all, INCREASES the range. It is really frustrating in its actual state.

 

There are many other weapons that wish to have a look at...

 

 

And, finally, please release a rifle that have impact (80%) & slash (20%) based damage that is a real one, with a real magazine, a real fire rate, a correct reload time and a real range.

 

Thanks again.

[Ralsk]

Eh I've only got gripes against some of them.  Others could probably be a lot better with slight changes.  When I first got the Attica I expected it to be able to use bow mods like Thunderbolt seeing as it is a crossbow but I was disappointed when it wasn't able to have it.  The Sybaris I just got to 30 just a few days ago and I loved it.  It has great potential and could be really good but I just don't want to spend all the formas it would take to get it to that point.

 

Now finally the Castanas.  These things are awesome and I really don't see the problem with them.  They are one of my favorite secondary weapons by far.  You don't have to use them as traps at all in any sense of the word.  I usually just throw them right on an enemy's chest and blow it up the second it hits since they do stick to enemies.  What that gives you is basically a fast firing, fairly accurate (once you're used to aiming them), mini cluster bomb that hits multiple enemies if they are close enough to the target.  Combine this with innate electric damage which can stun or easily be combined into other elements and I really don't see what's wrong with them.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Ralsk

[SIDESTRE4M]

Sybaris is a grateful weapon... However it's painfull to polarize...

[BrotherJudas008]

We fight huge crowds of enemies in Warframe. Yet so many Tenno weapons in the clan research have small magazines and long reload speeds. It feels like to weapons were never designed for this game.

-snip-

 Too bad that nobody uses them because of the fact how bad they are. Most of these weapons have very low sustained DPS, because of the very long reload. We get thrown huge crowds of enemies at us in every single missions, but only couple of these weapons can efficiently get through those crowds.

 

Huge crowds only tend to happen with the survival or defense mission types. On other missions it isn't that bad as you can back away a little behind cover mostly to reload or can dive in and cut the last few up.

 

Like pretty much all the weapons with the correct mods and use of some Forma/Catalyst etc the Tenno ones are good enough for most missions. Sure the really high level stuff can be more difficult with some of them but then that can add some challenge to it. 

 

Personally I quite like all the weapons, and use some of them a lot even though I have better (on paper) weapons  sure I wouldn't complain if some buffs happened with some of them (More Crit for the Venka please!!) but I wouldn't say any were particularly bad.

 

I will agree that the Attica could use a buff, but its a fine weapon unless your trying to one-shot Lephantis or something.  Just takes a little more patience to use compared to the Latron Prime I found.

[Hueminator]

Tenno weapon are fairly weak so that the gold bling version shines

[SIDESTRE4M]

They are perfectly fine for everything except infinite missions to a certain point.

Edited August 7, 2014 by SIDESTRE4M