Please Remove Friendship Doors

[AandOE]

These doors benefit me in solo play because I know that the AI can't go through them, thus giving me time to collect myself before going through them. In online play, I know that these doors will slow my team mates down just enough for me to slightly catch up enough, in case I go down due to an errant life threatening bullet hitting my 'frame. It also allows time to discuss anything, like 'Hey, someone have a team energy restore on hand? I'm low on energy'.

[Tigercloud]

Fun change would be to put a double locked cipher for players that rush. Also, simultaneously solving the afk issue. 

 

 

Implementation might be a bit clunky though. Like as soon as a 2nd player runs up to the other pad auto solve the locked cipher or something.

 

 

Removing them completely somewhat feels like a loss of immersion. edit: Could reduce the frequency of seeing these doors though.  As I also think it really slows down the pace of a fast pace shooter.

 

I like how you're thinking.

 

What I want added in were those mini mobile-defense doors present in the Alad V Shipment alerts. Those actually do add challenge and gameplay, because enemies start spawning and attacking you while you're trying to open the door. That would solve the OP's issues with door functionality actually preventing rushers, while also making it interesting rather than just a block.

[CatPhoenix]

Considering that there will eventually be a Corpus unit that will lock more doors (thanks to a community vote), makes me wonder how many will complain when this happens.

 

Remember the Alad V teaser event where you had to wait 60 seconds for a door to open while the enemy swarmed your position?  I like that, but if that was for every lock door, that could be bad (maybe  a slim random chance, and never to happen when the ship is going to explode)?

 

It doesn't bother me that they're in single player.  Heck, for single player, you could even make it a hacking mini game and I wouldn't mind.  They're fine for the most part.  The only suggestion I could make is if there is a AFK person, that it puts a door on a timer to open it eventually, and this in turn will unlock all other doors of this type.

 

But if neither of these sound good, just leave them the way they are.  I've had no issues with them.

[Sifu]

Leave them be,it amuses me when rushers activate elevators without waiting for others then they have to wait in front of the locked door right after.

 

*attention - read with maximum sarcasm*

 

Correct! Lets remove elevators too! And mission objectives, who needs them anyway?

Just log, go to mission and extract. PROFIT.

[Holybeer]

My mind about this is potato

Edited August 11, 2014 by Holybeer

[TheFoxsShadow]

Dear DE,

It has probably has been said before, but, I think they should bring back the Whole "Survive while i hack open this door" Thing. It added a whole lot of Suspense Imo.

Imagine, you just finished Destroying the ships reactor, the place is going to blow up! and The only thing between you and the Escape is one of these doors. Suspense, Frustration, Id be sweating bullets at my enemies! Haha! When you actually finish and make it to the Extraction, Oh, the relief and accomplishment! Those narrow escapes, barely surviving, the urgency! Its what makes me happy in this game. The best missions,  to me, are the ones with these things. Like the new Rescue missions! It makes you think, Should i wait for my friends or to start the hacking process and take the chance of getting yourself killed. 

Yes, it would make the game a little more difficult but isn't that what makes it fun? Maybe leave those doors for the higher level planets if you think it'd be to much for newer players.

Take out the team doors for lower level planets and give the higher levels some added difficulty and fun? :D

Why not make a minor inconvenience a fun and exciting part of Game-play? 

~Sincerely, The Foxes Shadow. 

[TheFoxsShadow]

New idea: make the friendship doors destructible. Then anyone trapped by afkers can simply blast the door; rushers who leave their team mates will be slowed by blasting the door. Destroying the door will cause a noise, and no doubt trigger the alarms.

 

I doubt anyone'll like this idea, but it's a solution (of sorts).

"Yeah! -Primes Ogris- F***, This Door! -Boom-" xD

[Janzer]

I have no problem with the doors, but I've played with those doors in the maps for so long that I'm just used to them. That is not a good reason to keep them.

 

I read through most of these comments, bypassing the obvious attacks on people and just thought about core gameplay.

 

How do locked doors bring any kind of immersive factor? They exist when outside of an alert, solely to slow players down. Nix them because that doesn't work.

 

Warframe players are used to going fast, because that's the type of gameplay that is encouraged by the developers during talks about the game, hence no cover mechanic by design. Steve talked about that during livestreams.

 

What I think would help to slightly turn Warframe into more of a team game in some aspect is to put fear into Tenno, the way Left for Dead does. An idea I had just reading this thread is this:

 

Trap players that are off on their own inside a room and require the other Tenno to hack the controls for the room in order to free them. It's a simple idea, but that means the group would tend to play closer together. If a Tenno is 2 or so rooms ahead, lock them into that zone and flood it with enemies.

 

It'll be a challenge for the rusher to stay alive, which would give some fun for that person, and a rescue mission of sorts to the other Tenno to free that person. People would do it, because they know at some point that could/will be them trapped. It'll encourage people to stick closer together as well as add challenge for those that want that extra fun time.

 

Anyone left in the room would miss out on some part of rewards, but that would be a reason to not rush so far off ahead if you're worried about that.

Edited August 11, 2014 by Janzer

[FierceRadiance]

I say leave'em be. 

 

If you want to Rush, play in Solo mode.  If you want to Rush levels you can't finish on your own, put in the time, practice, and get better.  Until then, Rush the levels you can by yourself.  That's one of the reasons Solo mode is there.  (Lord knows there aren't many other reasons for it anymore.)  But don't expect the game to change to accommodate you; that's unfair to everyone else who doesn't see Warframe, or it's challenges, the way you do. 

 

For those who believe that Warframe is designed to be played fast, I agree there's a certain amount of truth to that.  But to take one example, if you look at auto racing, an enormous portion of it, especially outside the US, involves more than simply going like hell and turning left for three hours.  I hesitate to use the term 'real' racing, but a lot of courses use things like both left- AND right-hand turns, and even chicanes, specifically to slow the racers down, and make the course more challenging.  This strikes me as much more along the lines of the speed WF is looking for, and it's a perfectly reasonable expectation for a fast-paced game to put in some curves now and then specifically to slow you down.

 

"We choose to go to the moon and do the other things not because they are easy, but because they are hard."

[LukeAura]

Well, it might not mitigate the damage as you say. Saying it is punishment is like saying that the doors purpose is that related to rushers, which to be honest I am not sure. Maybe they implemented it just to add some extra element into the game but it turned out to have such effect on the game. In any case. The point of punishment is to teach a lesson. If they didn't learn it, they get punishment again. The point still stands that it only bugs rushers and impatient people. It might have any reason for some people, but as I said, other people like it and see it to have a reason. If their purpose is to stop rushers, then I think it is being fulfilled completely and successfully. They are complaining about it, are they not?

But they don't teach a lesson. As soon as the door opens the rest of the map is free for the rusher to rush, thusly any meaning is lost when he is let free to do exactly what he just did before. Complete the objective, and give the other players nothing to do but head to the extraction.   

It is punishment without purpose, it does not teach a lesson or solve the problem. Rushers shouldn't be complaining because they learned the lesson the first or second time it happened. If they're still annoyed by it now then it has failed to teach them anything. 

Two rushers working together also won't be punished by the door. So it's not to punish rushers but to punish people who get ahead of their group. Which means even an average speed player will be punished by a door if his teammates play slow and explorative. He is not a 'problem' it his group by this perspective, but still he is punished.

 

[CedarDpg]

Leave them be,it amuses me when rushers activate elevators without waiting for others then they have to wait in front of the locked door right after.

 

 

I guess I had an amusing experience earlier with friendship doors. Some low rank dude was rushing, couldn't wait the few seconds I was behind him to activate the elevator... Well, actually it didn't matter that much since I just wall-climbed up the support pillar... But still...he rushed to the friendship door. And pressed the button...so I rush on up to the center of the friendship door, and just park. Eventually the rest of the party caught up and opened the door. He rushed off to the boss. I rushed on up behind him. He got downed, and I was stealthed... So I just parked over there too, until my stealth ran out. Then we killed the boss...I guess he didn't have any revives because he was still down when the rest of the party was at extraction. Totally cracked me up. Oh well, I made up for my schadenfreude moment with a few good deeds by reviving a bunch of other random people I was with on the next run after that dude left the squad. :)

[HellEnforcer]

But they don't teach a lesson. As soon as the door opens the rest of the map is free for the rusher to rush, thusly any meaning is lost when he is let free to do exactly what he just did before. Complete the objective, and give the other players nothing to do but head to the extraction.   

It is punishment without purpose, it does not teach a lesson or solve the problem. Rushers shouldn't be complaining because they learned the lesson the first or second time it happened. If they're still annoyed by it now then it has failed to teach them anything. 

Two rushers working together also won't be punished by the door. So it's not to punish rushers but to punish people who get ahead of their group. Which means even an average speed player will be punished by a door if his teammates play slow and explorative. He is not a 'problem' it his group by this perspective, but still he is punished.

 

 

 You are right on that it does not seem to be teaching a lesson, I might have used the wrong wording once again. Then you can look at it as an encouragement to play as a team. In the case you presented as two rushers working together, there is at least half the team using the same tactic; so even if they are rushing, it should not be as bad for the rest of the team in my opinion as if it were just one person rushing and three others trying to go for each room. By the way, this is not related to the discussion at hand, but just because someone is still annoyed after certain event does not mean that person is right. A parent trying to teach the kids to take showers or brush their teeth regularly is probably a good example. Some children will be annoyed and mad even after being told that the 100th time.

 

 I believe the idea of the game is to be played as a team. Unfortunately, we currently have no missions that would make the team split to go for separate objectives simultaneously (I would love one of those to be honest). Currently, playing as a team on WarFrame means mostly to stay together and help each other during the fight. If two rushers are working together, the door is then no problem and certainly hardly a punishment, unless you are impatient enough to not wanting to wait 5 seconds for your companion to press the other button.

 

 You said the doors are neither teaching a lesson nor solving the problem. I disagree to an extent. I don't know about you, but I have no clue if they are really making players stick to the team. Sure, obviously not everyone is doing it; but I don't know if some players stick to the rest of the team because these doors encouraged it (probably a lot of other factors encouraged this as well). You are right in that is not solving the problem. At least is not solving it entirely, but it is doing something and something is better than nothing. Currently as they are, they should still encourage team behavior and provide no harm if you play as a team (again, unless you are impatient)

 

 Instead of people messing with the doors, why don't suggest something else instead? I have read long ago in some other post an idea of an option to mark a checkbox or something alike as "explorative" and "direct" which would make a player be matched with players with the same playstyle. That way, it doesn't matter much how fast or slow they play, they will most likely have the rest of the team with them or very near, making the doors nothing more than just an extra element on the gameplay.

 

 

 Edit: Had to change a word for "mad" since apparently the one I used is a bad word...

Edited August 11, 2014 by HellEnforcer

[Dddsasul]

I don't like them because of afk players also when you do a module mission and a player picks that module up and then goes afk there should be a way to take that module from him, maybe if the whole team presses x on that guy...and again the friendship doors may go to rainbow land and stay there we don't need them in warframe,

[SIDESTRE4M]

1. Last I checked, you do not need to be present at extraction to get your reward.

 

3. It is a minor inconvenience at best (~2 second wait time). Impatience isn't the issue. I would be perfectly fine with waiting if the doors were benefiting me or making the game more interesting/fun/challenging. But they aren't. They're there purely to waste 2+ seconds (it is open ended and depends on how long your teammates take to press the button, if they ever decide to) amounts of my time.

 

4. Read 3.

 

5. Are you able to proceed for the 1-2 seconds the door is closed? No, you are not.

 

6. I am saying that, rusher or not, you are still being forced to wait 1-2 seconds for the door to open. Solo or not. With a full party of teammates that are sticking together or not.

 

I'm pretty sure you are the first person to say that you found the door itself fun. I'm also not sure how a door that requires you to press a panel to open it (no puzzle or anything) is adding to immersion.

 

Re-read both my post and the OP. You are clearly not understanding what I typed up.

 

This time I try to be as friendly and respectful as possible.

 

There are always more views on one thing. Not just one. You represent one view, describe it from your view and argument from your view.

 

Try to understand people who wants to do a mission together, killing stuff, don't haste. It is also a loadout problem. I'm that type of person who wouldn't equip Ichors or Zorens just to be on par with a rusher speed.

 

Try to understand, that that game is not designed only for rushers and that online gaming shuffles a variety of minds together.

So the moment you start the game with four random people, you agreed to be part of a team... or not. The moment you decide not to be part of the team by leaving them, you have to wait before those doors.

 

Please try to understand, that not everyone is into hardrushing, not everyone probably has the build/loadout for that and that it is very frustrating not to be able to end a mission properly, just because one teammember didn't have the patience to stick with the team.

 

I appeal to you trying to understand, that everything you wrote is very self-centered or centered arround rushing-only.

 

This game is not just about you and rushing. It is your right to play the game like you want, but remember it is also the right of the people to treat you based on your behaviour towards them. So the doors are there and your self-centered request is argumentatively on par with people who want them to stay, because their view makes as much sense as yours, just presenting one view.

 

----

 

As I see it: If you can rush, don't kill anything and get through, you don't need others, not even other rushers, because you don't interact, nor do you get affinity.

 

You could race with someone, true.

But what you basically do, is forcing you pacing on others, while you demand adjusting the possible pace of the gamedesign to you by removing those doors.

 

I think, everyone has the rifght to get to see the boss, to see the extraction point. Those doors maybe won't help that much, but in my opinion, they are just a reminder for exactly the same people like you, thus they do exactly what they are intended to be, fulfilling their premise.

Edited August 12, 2014 by SIDESTRE4M

[SquirmyBurrito]

This time I try to be as friendly and respectful as possible.

 

There are always more views on one thing. Not just one. You represent one view, describe it from your view and argument from your view.

 

Try to understand people who wants to do a mission together, killing stuff, don't haste. It is also a loadout problem. I'm that type of person who wouldn't equip Ichors or Zorens just to be on par with a rusher speed.

 

Try to understand, that that game is not designed only for rushers and that online gaming shuffles a variety of minds together.

So the moment you start the game with four random people, you agreed to be part of a team... or not. The moment you decide not to be part of the team by leaving them, you have to wait before those doors.

 

Please try to understand, that not everyone is into hardrushing, not everyone probably has the build/loadout for that and that it is very frustrating not to be able to end a mission properly, just because one teammember didn't have the patience to stick with the team.

 

I appeal to you trying to understand, that everything you wrote is very self-centered or centered arround rushing-only.

 

This game is not just about you and rushing. It is your right to play the game like you want, but remember it is also the right of the people to treat you based on your behaviour towards them. So the doors are there and your self-centered request is argumentatively on par with people who want them to stay, because their view makes as much sense as yours, just presenting one view.

 

----

 

As I see it: If you can rush, don't kill anything and get through, you don't need others, not even other rushers, because you don't interact, nor do you get affinity.

 

You could race with someone, true.

But what you basically do, is forcing you pacing on others, while you demand adjusting the possible pace of the gamedesign to you by removing those doors.

 

I think, everyone has the rifght to get to see the boss, to see the extraction point. Those doors maybe won't help that much, but in my opinion, they are just a reminder for exactly the same people like you, thus they do exactly what they are intended to be, fulfilling their premise.

 

Pathos arguments don't really work with me.

 

My main point does not only apply to one playstyle, so all the stuff about how not everyone rushes is irrelevant.

 

I shouldn't have to wait at a door for my teammates to momentarily catch up with me just so I can leave them behind as soon as the door opens up.

 

What do you mean 'end the mission properly'? One rusher isn't going to mess up your ability to get to extraction unless you are playing with a party of two.

 

Rushers not sticking with slower teammates is not always about a lack of patience. It is the same as a non-rusher not keeping up with a rusher (or at least attempting to).

 

No, it really isn't. Go re-read the OP.

 

I never said it was. I'm not asking for DE to implement some sort of anti-non-rusher mechanic. I'm asking that they remove the doors in their current useless state until they can come up with something better. As the doors in their current state don't prevent people rushing after the door opens. While it is closed it doesn't add anything positive to my experience. And while not rushing it STILL doesn't add anything positive to my experience. The doors vary from being a minor inconvenience to being a major inconvenience with some people being indifferent and therefore not noticing. Most of the arguments I have seen in favor of them staying stem from a troll-type mentality ("I like when rushers are forced to wait"), or just don't make any sense (immersion, they're fun, they allow me to take a breather -despite the fact that enemies still spawn and the door doesn't completely close the room-, etc). 

___________

 

Whether or not I choose to kill any enemies is irrelevant to the topic of this thread. Whether or not I need other rushers is irrelevant.

 

Incorrect, no one is forced to keep up with me. Extraction waits for a second person. Them removing these doors is going to speed up mission objective completion by a varying number (dependent upon how long the rusher would normally be forced to pause his/her gameplay and twiddle his thumb while his teammates get to continue to have fun), BUT mission completion (actually extracting) will only be sped up by the time that it normally takes the door to open once two people have pressed the console as the non-rushers DON'T have to move any faster than they'd normally be moving as the mission won't extract until a second person gets there.

 

The existence of these doors shouldn't be changing whether or not you get to see the boss unless you get a REALLY lucky placement and it is right before the boss room. If you're able to keep up with a 'rusher' from the time that door opens to the boss room, either that rusher isn't rushing or you are rushing. I already addressed the extraction issue, but I'll go through and underline key things in my post so that you actually take notice of them this time. A 'reminder' that doesn't actually teach anyone anything is a failure and it should be removed. Teachers that fail to teach lose their jobs. They do not succeed in fulfilling their goal unless their goal is to waste time, inconvenience players, and fail to actually prevent rushing or discourage rushing. <----TL;DR- This door shouldn't be what is deciding whether or not you're seeing a boss unless you are rushing or you get a really lucky door placement.

[SIDESTRE4M]

I've read and re-read a dozen times now, just to make sure, but I still see only a problem with egoistic mindsets in combination with suboptimal game mechanics.

 

The latter is what you are descibing and what I would agree to.

The former is, what you just don't want to admit but describe everytime.

 

(EDIT: Telling me about wanting to rush and wanting better implementation of anti-rush mechanics don't make sense to me. I think it's just a feint to find an argument to remove them.)

 

EDIT2: Man, you really write a lot. You cannot simply say, it's the same that a non-rusher doesn't adapt to rusher. It's not about rushing or not, it's about a team in which everyone tries to to do his best to fit in. So the fast ones go a bit slower and the slow ones try not to throw back the team.

 

Yes it's just an ideal I am describing. Highly unrealistic, but it should be the goal of everyone. So those who rush get stopped by those random doors, if not at least 50% or the majority keeps up.

That a rusher doesn't like it, is understandable. If the slowpoke is too slow, he won't have much fun either, because nothing is left for him to do, or everything, depending on your rushing, if you kill nothing.

 

So whatever you do, if you remove the doors or not, you shift this suboptimal solution more to one or another direction. That's it.

Edited August 12, 2014 by SIDESTRE4M

[Quizel]

How do locked doors bring any kind of immersive factor? They exist when outside of an alert, solely to slow players down. Nix them because that doesn't work.

 

Trap players that are off on their own inside a room and require the other Tenno to hack the controls for the room in order to free them. It's a simple idea, but that means the group would tend to play closer together. If a Tenno is 2 or so rooms ahead, lock them into that zone and flood it with enemies.

Well, for spy  and similar missions ur breaking and entering.  Suppose you could argue there's simply too much of this in the game right now holding back the true purpose of the fast pace shooter.

 

As for the 2nd comment listed, as long as the frequency is on par with current double locked doors suppose it won't be any worse. This actually seems to happen quite often though already.  A player runs way off ahead, fails to kill all the enemies running to the alarm panel and they get locked in and separated.  Sometimes they even die just before the lock down procedure starts which I find is kinda funny :D. Ultimately sound like this just punishes the rusher though.  Not sure if that's a welcomed change.

Edited August 12, 2014 by Quizel

[Noabettiet]

Answering it like this, related to your 1 to 6 points on why they should be removed.

 

 

1- They aren't simply anti-rush mechanics and i will explain it on the next steps.

2- They promote team play, which is the entire point of playing with other tenno. If anything, i wish there were more like this.

3- Neither ruin any experience. 

4- You don't require a team member to open them anyway, while useless, it is required in the event that someone may join your game. Still would be fine if they removed only for "solo" mode.

5- Same can be said about anything, everything can improve, doesn't really require it to be removed though. 

6- Sounds more like a problem within the player team play. You can't be extracted unless at least half of your team is there. Plus, if half your team isn't following you, you probably are doing something wrong and shouldn't be away from them.

 

 

Warframe online play is about teamwork. Whether or not if you want to rush, decide it as a team. Solo play, is however nothing like that and i would understand if it got cut out, however, solo play by itself needs a lot of rework, to make it fun and challenging like would be intended in a solo experience.

 

/thread

Edited August 13, 2014 by akkerusia

[LukeAura]

 You are right on that it does not seem to be teaching a lesson, I might have used the wrong wording once again. Then you can look at it as an encouragement to play as a team. In the case you presented as two rushers working together, there is at least half the team using the same tactic; so even if they are rushing, it should not be as bad for the rest of the team in my opinion as if it were just one person rushing and three others trying to go for each room. By the way, this is not related to the discussion at hand, but just because someone is still annoyed after certain event does not mean that person is right. A parent trying to teach the kids to take showers or brush their teeth regularly is probably a good example. Some children will be annoyed and mad even after being told that the 100th time.

 

 I believe the idea of the game is to be played as a team. Unfortunately, we currently have no missions that would make the team split to go for separate objectives simultaneously (I would love one of those to be honest). Currently, playing as a team on WarFrame means mostly to stay together and help each other during the fight. If two rushers are working together, the door is then no problem and certainly hardly a punishment, unless you are impatient enough to not wanting to wait 5 seconds for your companion to press the other button.

 

 You said the doors are neither teaching a lesson nor solving the problem. I disagree to an extent. I don't know about you, but I have no clue if they are really making players stick to the team. Sure, obviously not everyone is doing it; but I don't know if some players stick to the rest of the team because these doors encouraged it (probably a lot of other factors encouraged this as well). You are right in that is not solving the problem. At least is not solving it entirely, but it is doing something and something is better than nothing. Currently as they are, they should still encourage team behavior and provide no harm if you play as a team (again, unless you are impatient)

 

 Instead of people messing with the doors, why don't suggest something else instead? I have read long ago in some other post an idea of an option to mark a checkbox or something alike as "explorative" and "direct" which would make a player be matched with players with the same playstyle. That way, it doesn't matter much how fast or slow they play, they will most likely have the rest of the team with them or very near, making the doors nothing more than just an extra element on the gameplay.

 

 

 Edit: Had to change a word for "mad" since apparently the one I used is a bad word...

|

Also slightly off point, but depending on the difficulty or effort involved a habit can be formed in as little as 18 days, I doubt sticking with a group can be that hard so I'd say a good system would keep all players fast or slow, even more stubborn cases, to try and pull themselves to an average speed within two maybe three months. Which might be more the trouble with the doors, they are not habit forming. Nor do they encourage consideration from slower players to conform to a faster group(Another topic all together, a lot of problems with that one.). 

Checkboxes would help, but as a coop game people should come together as a team. People should be capable of joining a mission and adjusting all their speeds to a middle ground. I feel like I compare elements of this game to dark souls too much, but there is certainly something to be said about its jolly cooperation in terms of doing things right. Two random players connect together to coop all the time without the need for a single checkpoint door and it works a whole lot better than Warframe. 

I have never personally met or seen someone who sticks with the group after opening the door, but I am glad to know it at least improves some people. 

The exp bonus helps in theory, however, it fails in game modes like Capture/Rescue/Sabotage which are relatively low on exp gain in comparison to game modes like survival/mobile defence/Defense where there is less reason to rushing and being outside of exp gain ranges any ways. It, much like the doors works when it is not needed and fails when it is needed most. 

I've got a couple suggestions actually between this, the last, and the hot topic, thread. 

1, Keep them outside mission objective rooms only. Most friendship doors in other games are placed to segment off significant waypoints/portions of levels, except for divide and conquer game modes like Hive. At least then they cover a purpose, keep people who get ahead of the group from invalidating the core content of that mission from others.

2. Replace them with Security checkpoints that have conditions unfavourable for a single person to simply bypass, without creating a gameless waiting block. Probably at least involving a lockdown puzzle, heavily reinforced cold procc turrets stationed at the exit, multiple defensive/heavy units that don't focus on damage and require flanking to best take down, significantly easier to do in teams, but not impossible solo. Actual gameplay that pushes sticking with the group on to players, hopefully even creating the habit. 

3(just thought up). Minor tweak just so they stop creating that small hitch in gameplay for good team and solo play, just have them open like regular doors when two players are within the door opening distance. 

Edited August 13, 2014 by LukeAura

[StinkyPygmy]

The thing is, whether or not they are effective at slowing rushers down doesn't really matter. If they work then great, if not then removing them also makes no difference either. Just leave them in until they are reworked or a better solution comes up. My biggest argument for most of this is that if you want to rush thats fine, but just play solo. If you are capable of rushing then you should have no problem. There is a massive disparity between those that seem to think this game is a super fast paced shooter and those that don't, when in reality its really only as fast paced as the players in question. A few doors that take two seconds to open instead of one isn't exactly going to ruin the experience for you. If it does all I can say is patience is a virtue.

 

I'm not saying they shouldn't get a rework, just that there is no point in removing them entirely. Apparently whether or not they are there makes no difference anyway.

[Cinematic_30FPS]

Answering it like this, related to your 1 to 6 points on why they should be removed.

 

 

1- They aren't simply anti-rush mechanics and i will explain it on the next steps.

2- They promote team play, which is the entire point of playing with other tenno. If anything, i wish there were more like this.

3- Neither ruin any experience. 

4- You don't require a team member to open them anyway, while useless, it is required in the event that someone may join your game. Still would be fine if they removed only for "solo" mode.

5- Same can be said about anything, everything can improve, doesn't really require it to be removed though. 

6- Sounds more like a problem within the player team play. You can't be extracted unless at least half of your team is there. Plus, if half your team isn't following you, you probably are doing something wrong and shouldn't be away from them.

 

 

Warframe online play is about teamwork. Whether or not if you want to rush, decide it as a team. Solo play, is however nothing like that and i would understand if it got cut out, however, solo play by itself needs a lot of rework, to make it fun and challenging like would be intended in a solo experience.

 

/thread

 

1 - They aren't an anti-anything mechanic because they are useless.

2 - How? If someone isn't being a team player, what does a co-op door do to rectify the situation?

3 - They don't "ruin" it, but they still make it slightly worse. Just because this particular suggestion has a relatively small impact doesn't make it unworthy of consideration by DE.

4 - Yes, but it is still a jarring pause in gameplay that doesn't do anything other than waste my time. And good games don't waste people's time.

5 - OP is not stating that co-op doors should be removed because they can be improved. He is stating that they should be removed because of the other mentioned reasons and that, later down the line, they can be replaced with something (not necessarily a door) that actually does something.

6 - I think you missed what the OP was trying to say here. His point was that co-op doors are redundant with the extraction timer.

[SquirmyBurrito]

I've read and re-read a dozen times now, just to make sure, but I still see only a problem with egoistic mindsets in combination with suboptimal game mechanics.

 

The latter is what you are descibing and what I would agree to.

The former is, what you just don't want to admit but describe everytime.

 

(EDIT: Telling me about wanting to rush and wanting better implementation of anti-rush mechanics don't make sense to me. I think it's just a feint to find an argument to remove them.)

 

EDIT2: Man, you really write a lot. You cannot simply say, it's the same that a non-rusher doesn't adapt to rusher. It's not about rushing or not, it's about a team in which everyone tries to to do his best to fit in. So the fast ones go a bit slower and the slow ones try not to throw back the team.

 

Yes it's just an ideal I am describing. Highly unrealistic, but it should be the goal of everyone. So those who rush get stopped by those random doors, if not at least 50% or the majority keeps up.

That a rusher doesn't like it, is understandable. If the slowpoke is too slow, he won't have much fun either, because nothing is left for him to do, or everything, depending on your rushing, if you kill nothing.

 

So whatever you do, if you remove the doors or not, you shift this suboptimal solution more to one or another direction. That's it.

 

If you re-read it you'd know that ego has nothing to do with the OP. So you need to re-read it again and this time stop thinking like a Non-Rusher/Rusher and just think like an unbiased third party.

 

I never said I wanted better/more anti-rush mechanics. I only said that should the doors be removed, they can be replaced by something better (read: something that actually works). I don't need to 'feint' in order to find an argument to remove them, I have several listed in the OP. I am not at a loss for arguments.

 

I can't simply say what now?

 

The underlined argument has been shot down numerous times. And it is based on one scenario that is largely independent of the door's existence. To quote myself "They do not guarantee that slower players will be able to keep pace with the rusher for the rest of the mission."

 

Sit down and think for a moment. You got four players, One is a rusher, Two are X (X= Faster than Fourth guy), and the Fourth is Slow. Rusher gets to the door and waits for a second person to get there. One X player catches up and activates the other console. Rusher goes back to rushing. Slow guy is still slow and never actually caught up with the Rusher.

 

Here is another scenario:

1 Rusher

3 Non-Rushers

 

>Rusher rushes and kills everything (since your complaint is with not getting any kills). 

>Other players slowly make their follow behind the rusher.

>Rusher meets Friendship Door and is forced to stop and wait.

>Rest of the team catches up, one of them activates the other console.

>Rusher goes back to rushing and killing everything that it sees.

>Non-Rushers go back to following behind picking up all the drops, opening containers, etc.

>Rusher gets Extraction/Completes the objective and then gets to extraction.

>Non-Rushers continue to collect loot until they feel like going to extraction.

 

And here is the final scenario:

1 Rusher

3 Non-Rushers

 

>Rusher rushes and kills everything (since your complaint is with not getting any kills). 

>Other players slowly make their follow behind the rusher.

>Rusher gets to Extraction/Completes the objective and then gets to extraction.

>Non-Rushers continue to collect loot until they feel like going to extraction.

 

What changed between those last two? The rusher was able to have fun the entire time. Nothing else.

 

Warframe online play is about teamwork. Whether or not if you want to rush, decide it as a team. Solo play, is however nothing like that and i would understand if it got cut out, however, solo play by itself needs a lot of rework, to make it fun and challenging like would be intended in a solo experience.

 

/thread

 

See Oboeshoes92's post for a response to 1-6.

 

What does that have to do with the main point of this thread? Contrary to your claim the doors do not promote teamplay, they REQUIRE (big difference) just two players. So if your team consists of four players, only two players are being forced to work together. And the second the doors are open they stop forcing players to stick together. What does this have to do with these doors? 

 

Do not '/thread' when you failed to establish an inarguable point.

 

The thing is, whether or not they are effective at slowing rushers down doesn't really matter. If they work then great, if not then removing them also makes no difference either. Just leave them in until they are reworked or a better solution comes up. My biggest argument for most of this is that if you want to rush thats fine, but just play solo. If you are capable of rushing then you should have no problem. There is a massive disparity between those that seem to think this game is a super fast paced shooter and those that don't, when in reality its really only as fast paced as the players in question. A few doors that take two seconds to open instead of one isn't exactly going to ruin the experience for you. If it does all I can say is patience is a virtue.

 

I'm not saying they shouldn't get a rework, just that there is no point in removing them entirely. Apparently whether or not they are there makes no difference anyway.

 

If they don't work, why should they be kept in? It makes more sense to remove them and implement something else when they think of something, rather than leaving a failing feature in. The 'go play solo' argument has been addressed time and time again.

 

That's incorrect. To the players who aren't indifferent, their existence ranges from a minor inconvenience (~1 second random wait with no upside) to a major inconvenience (open ended as there is no restriction to how long you could be made to wait at the door). That by itself should be a good enough argument for their removal. Especially when you consider their lack of an upside and inability to actually permanently stop rushers from rushing through the rest of the mission.

[SIDESTRE4M]

I think you need to re-read my post, because you don't seem to understand my point and the relation to your arguments.

 

You describe various scenarios, in which all members of the team get scattered.

 

This should not happen in the first place. Why don't you understand that?

 

It has to do with simple logic. Every scenario you never described teamplay, but four members individually acting on their own instead of playing together.

 

I try to tell you this for ages, and while I try to tell you various viewpoints you say I'm biased and have to look at it from a third party view, what I actually did.

 

So you basically think the doors should go until something better is implemented.

So instead of the people, the game should enforce teamplay with hindering mechanics. The exact thing you want to be removed, so people like you don't have to stick with the team.

 

TEAM.

You should re-read that word until you grasp that meaning and understand what is truly wrong with the scenarios you described.

 

If I play with my people, I almost never recognize these doors because we adapt our pacing to each other.

If I play online, I recognize them if the whole partything is messed up.

Why does it get messed up?

 

That is the question.

If you don't want to bloat simple missions with numerous mechanics that require massive teamwork which would create more problems because then you are really #*(&#036;%%@ if someone trolls or messes up, these doors are just a mild brake. The rusher will rush again. He will always find ways to be fast, no matter what you try to implement.

 

As long as people don't undestand the meaning of teamplay, you don't need teamplay mechanics.

[Husbandry]

Keep the door but let us hack the panels one by one at least?

 

It'll still slow people down a bit but remove the AFK problem.

 

 

Edit: Hacking minigame needs to be harder. Need more hexagons!

Edited August 13, 2014 by Husbandry

[Xiloscient]

They always worked really well at stopping rushers  for me. Even if they go right back to rushing after it's open. It still gives me and the others more time to catch up, especially on boss missions. The worst feeling ever is when you get to the boss and all the loot has already disappeared.
As a long time Rhino player I feel that these doors are a blessing and I will take the hate that comes with it.