Please Remove Friendship Doors

[DSpite]

One troll/afk player would be enough to completely halt an entire team from playing. And they'd still fail to actually achieve anything more than temporarily stopping rushers. Not sure if trolling...

 

So basically what you are saying is that it's your way or nothing. We already have one "troll". YOU. The person that wants to leave the team behind, possibly running past ALL the mobs and leaving them in the way of the now 3 person team. For what? Please explain the logic of splitting from the team and not helping them?

 

You have NOT explained what the team gains by having you run the entire mission. THAT is the point here. You start as a team of four, then you take off, do everything, and the other three are half way into the level still. Please explain WHAT that archives, other then possibly give YOU an ego boost.

 

Your idea brings ZERO improvement to the game other then YOUR game.

 

Multiple Terminals:

 

1. The doors don't work as an anti-rush mechanic. - CHECK - This will.

2. They don't contribute to a positive gameplay experience. - CHECK - Makes team stay together for protection.

3. They don't benefit anyone. - CHECK - Benefits newer players

4. They are still present in solo. - IRRELEVANT - DE can't make "magic doors" that are psychic and can account for players popping in/out.

5. They can be reworked but until then, they should be removed. - FALLACY - Current doors, acts as buffers, They in fact need LONGER opening times.

6. Countermeasures to prevent a single fast player from ending the mission early in a full party game are unnecessary as it is already impossible for a single player to start the extraction timer when the other three are alive and not present at extraction. - FALLACY - Having you at the exit alone benefits no one, as YOU just pointed out. This mechanic is to stop people not getting mission pay because of "rushers". Also, when people do this, the other 3 members should just hide somewhere until THEY drop out of the team - pardon - their "solo" mission - so they can extract without them.

Edited August 18, 2014 by DSpite

[BloodKitten]

alternately you could throw in doors only lotus can open, and throw alot of heavies so a rusher will be punished a bit (in solo just some normal enemies untill door opens)

Edited August 18, 2014 by BloodHungryKitten

[SquirmyBurrito]

 

So basically what you are saying is that it's your way or nothing. We already have one "troll". YOU. The person that wants to leave the team behind, possibly running past ALL the mobs and leaving them in the way of the now 3 person team. For what? Please explain the logic of splitting from the team and not helping them?

 

You have NOT explained what the team gains by having you run the entire mission. THAT is the point here. You start as a team of four, then you take off, do everything, and the other three are half way into the level still. Please explain WHAT that archives, other then possibly give YOU an ego boost.

 

Your idea brings ZERO improvement to the game other then YOUR game.

 

Multiple Terminals:

 

1. The doors don't work as an anti-rush mechanic. - CHECK - This will.

2. They don't contribute to a positive gameplay experience. - CHECK - Makes team stay together for protection.

3. They don't benefit anyone. - CHECK - Benefits newer players

4. They are still present in solo. - IRRELEVANT - DE can't make "magic doors" that are psychic and can account for players popping in/out.

5. They can be reworked but until then, they should be removed. - FALLACY - Current doors, acts as buffers, They in fact need LONGER opening times.

6. Countermeasures to prevent a single fast player from ending the mission early in a full party game are unnecessary as it is already impossible for a single player to start the extraction timer when the other three are alive and not present at extraction. - FALLACY - Having you at the exit alone benefits no one, as YOU just pointed out. This mechanic is to stop people not getting mission pay because of "rushers". Also, when people do this, the other 3 members should just hide somewhere until THEY drop out of the team - pardon - their "solo" mission - so they can extract without them.

 

 

No, what I'm saying is: "One troll/afk player would be enough to completely halt an entire team from playing."

 

I crossed through all the off topic bits of your post so it is easier to see what I am replying to.

 

The main topic of this thread is the removal of a mechanic, not the addition. Please be more thorough when you read the OP.

 

1. A rusher could still leave their team behind as soon as the door opens.

2. False, refer to #1.

3. False, refer to #1.

4. False. And solo doesn't allow players to pop in and out, your argument is invalid.

5. That statement wasn't a fallacy, it was my opinion on the matter. Learn your terms.

6. That wasn't a fallacy either, that was a fact. The mission will not extract until more than one person is present at extraction.

 

Your suggestion does not solve the main issues. The only thing it does is give a lone troll the ability to prevent the rest of the team from progressing through the mission.

 

Edit: Please keep the hostility out of this thread.

Edited August 18, 2014 by SquirmyBurrito

[SquirmyBurrito]

alternately you could throw in doors only lotus can open, and throw alot of heavies so a rusher will be punished a bit (in solo just some normal enemies untill door opens)

 

Turning every friendship door into a mid-mission defense mission isn't something I am going to be able to get myself to support. Especially given the fact that this would make friendship doors nigh-impossible for a team of newbies. You didn't say anything that implies the door checks the number of players present before deciding whether or not to start tossing heavies at the player(s).

[Cinematic_30FPS]

[snip]

 

If you are going to accuse others of using fallacies, then you should probably take care not to use them yourself.

 

First off, your "proof" that SquiryBurrito is a rusher is a fairly obvious example of non sequitur because there could exist someone who is an impatient Loki main, and yet isn't a rusher. You could consider it evidence that they might be a rusher, but not conclusive proof.

 

However, that is mostly irrelevant because even if OP is, in fact, a rusher, your entire argument basically boils down to this:

 

1. Person A argues that co-op doors should be removed from the game.

2. Person A is a rusher.

3. Therefore, Person A's argument is false.

 

Which is an ad hominem argument.

 

 

You don't get to "change the game", without showing the change benefits all the random players in a mission and not just YOU.

 

He did exactly this in a post from the previous version of this thread.

[HunterHog]

Meh. I don't really see the problem with them.

[Mokkania]

He did exactly this in a post from the previous version of this thread.

Hadn't read this but it still doesn't work, if you put non factual (opiniated) cons, you need to add non factual pros.

[DSpite]

If you are going to accuse others of using fallacies, then you should probably take care not to use them yourself.

 

First off, your "proof" that SquiryBurrito is a rusher is a fairly obvious example of non sequitur because there could exist someone who is an impatient Loki main, and yet isn't a rusher. You could consider it evidence that they might be a rusher, but not conclusive proof.

 

However, that is mostly irrelevant because even if OP is, in fact, a rusher, your entire argument basically boils down to this:

 

1. Person A argues that co-op doors should be removed from the game.

2. Person A is a rusher.

3. Therefore, Person A's argument is false.

 

Which is an ad hominem argument.

 

 

 

He did exactly this in a post from the previous version of this thread.

 

 

Non sequitur: a logical fallacy where a stated conclusion is not supported by its premise

Premise : a premise is an assumption that something is true.

 

In others posts of the OP:

...

1. Run past everything that doesn't need to be killed. -My teammates lose no XP from my rushing.

2. Run past almost everything, but kill things on occasion (i.e- a toxic ancient that is in a doorway you need to run through). -I end up being the one who gets the least affinity for the mission.

3. Speedrun the mission while still killing everything in sight. -My teammates who are out of range miss out on XP. -Your complaint is valid.

...

Unless I'm playing exterminate, I always use method number two. My teammates aren't losing out on much XP for the few kills I get while rushing to the objective.

...

It does nothing but temporarily stop me. As soon as it opens I disappear again.

 

 

* The OP stated that he's a rusher.

* The only thing that stops him running the entire mission solo is the slow team at double doors.

* Double doors become a normal door single player

* The team contributes nothing to his mission because he is always way in front of the team.

* He can't extract until the teams arrives at extraction.

 

So you and him agree on the logic of "remove the doors" instead of "play solo, because you ALREADY ARE playing solo". Yes, please give me lessons on logic.

 

---

 

OP : "I'd say you must be new here... but you clearly aren't. I am not the first one to complain about these things."

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/286178-august-8th-community-hot-topics/page-5?hl=%2Bfrienship+%2Bdoors#entry3281940

 

August 8Th: Community Hot Topics!

Poll: Community Hot Topics August 8th (2129 member(s) have cast votes)

What is your opinion on doors that require multiple players to unlock?

"They are fine. Leave them. (1275 votes [62.10%])"

 

---

 

OP: They can be reworked but until then, they should be removed.

 

Not the way it works. Until DE chooses to implement another method, the doors should stay. They might not STOP the following from happening, but they at least mitigate the effects in some way.

 

A single player racing through the map can already:

 

* Put tiles between him and the others on lockdown, but not HIS tiles, as he can run past before activation after being spotted.

* Pre-spawn additional mobs ahead of the rest of the team, in tiles that would have been empty before activation.

* Make elevators that are normally open into closed, and needing time to call them down from where he exited.

* Sabotage missions can create a timer event, and the rushing player can fail the mission for everyone, as it only stops with everyone at extraction.

* On some missions like Spy, there are multiple terminals and SDoors, if present, forces at least pairs of players to work together.

* On Rescue missions, SDoors will lessen impact of a single player freeing hostage, being unable to protect it solo, and getting them killed, failing everyone's mission.

* Since Kubrows suffer negatives from death, splitting the team can directly impact coop game negatively.

* If Stalker appear for the racing player, it is far more likely it will kill them, and not drop anything. Mostly, this will just annoys everyone in a coop game.

* If the G3 or Harvester takes out a lone player because of lack of backup, that player is removed from the game and returned to the main screen.

* Trigger a secondary objective after completing the primary:

"... the players have destroyed the reactor core, but instead of being given the extraction location, they are given the location of a hostage, and are required to rescue them before they can be extracted. This can coincide with the timed extraction event, making for a hectic run."

Making that single player decision to "rush" fail the mission for the rest of the team.

 

A person that decides to "rush" the entire mission, while in a team, with SDoors removed:

 

* Can't extract on his own, and would need to wait at extraction, for a LONGER duration then the mission would have lasted normally, due to the extra firepower of a fourth player.

* Removes the waypoint that would normally point to a boss spawn room and instead points it to the extraction zone. Since bosses drop resources, the other players have no idea where the boss room might be if it not in a totally linear path, and miss out on those drops. Alad V and Lech Kril have off-path rooms, Pheroid and Jackal are linear paths, (from memory)

 

Two rushing players in a 4 player team can also currently open the current SDoors:

 

* "bonus affinity will not be awarded for the cell if at least half of the remaining squad does not reach extraction"

[SquirmyBurrito]

This proves my point you just go invisible and race past everything, leaving the team to deal with mobs.

 

I don't even care about the doors, the point here is that you join teams and then IGNORE you are ON a team.

 

I will explain neither thing to you as both are off topic.

 

Nothing you have brought up proves the underlined text. The underlined text is false as I do not normally use (or slot) invisibility.

 

If you do not care about the main topic stop derailing this thread and leave.

 

[snip]

 

*Whether or not I am a rusher is irrelevant.

*The doors do nothing but temporarily halt me, and you're making assumptions about the way I play.

*False. Normal doors do not require you to stop and activate a panel.

*You're making assumptions again.

*This is a fact based on a statement of fact that I made.

 

The doors should not stay as they do not do anything. 

 

*Distance means nothing, and lockdown doesn't just apply to one room (IIRC).

*Technically rushing reduces the places for enemies to spawn as they will avoid spawning where they can be seen. 

>Assuming the presence of a f-door will stop a rusher from using elevators before his/her team arrives.

>Assuming the rusher will stick with his/her team after the doors open.

*Prevents players from splitting up and getting to the terminals as fast as possible which the game mode would seem to encourage.

>Assuming the rusher will stick with his/her team after the doors open.

>Assuming the rusher will stick with his/her team after the doors open.

>Assuming the entire team will be huddled around the door when stalker spawns.

>Assuming the entire team will be huddled around the door when G3 and Harvester spawn.

*Cite the post/livestream where DE stated that a rusher completing the main objective has a higher chance of spawning a secondary objective.

 

*Doors do nothing to stop a rusher from continuing to rush through the rest of the mission. Thus the extra firepower bit is irrelevant.

*Doors do nothing to prevent this.

 

*Doors do nothing to prevent this.

 

Your entire post was composed of irrelevant claims about the way I play, and lines about scenarios that the doors do not prevent from occurring or in any way mitigate. 

[-Himari-]

Let's make sure we're staying on topic, Tenno.

[spoof01]

-1 to this!

coop comes from coopertaion!and this is a coop game! that measn you are supposed to stick with the team! Don't like to play with others? go solo!

Friendship doors are present in solo? you know that is a really bad argument because in solo they are like a normal door , just go turn the knob and it will open! 

 

specally for players like you! i'd rather see 3 security lockdowns in solo instead of a friendship door :P , or maby some puzzels that require some brain instead of maxed out mods and triple reactored frames :)

Edited August 20, 2014 by spoof01

[Cinematic_30FPS]

-1 to this!

coop comes from coopertaion!and this is a coop game! that measn you are supposed to stick with the team! Don't like to play with others? go solo!

Friendship doors are present in solo? you know that is a really bad argument because in solo they are like a normal door , just go turn the knob and it will open! 

 

specally for players like you! i'd rather see 3 security lockdowns in solo instead of a friendship door :P , or maby some puzzels that require some brain instead of maxed out mods and triple reactored frames :)

 

You have no idea what you are talking about. Normal doors open automatically when you approach them, whereas co-op doors take 3-5 seconds to open in solo. They are not "like a normal door" at all.

 

Also, I am the type of person who does stick with my team, and does play solo when I want to rush. And guess what? Here I am still complaining about these stupid doors. How do you explain that? What does you "solution" to "just play solo" do to resolve the issues with co-op doors in the instances when I am NOT playing solo?

[(PSN)Strifedecer]

I like them just the way they are. 2 players are enough, especially if the third is afk.