Alt Fire And Zoom In Are Separate Keys. Why Don't They Work As Such?

[Ronyn]

About this option:

There is currently a discussion on the topic which may result in Aim/Secondary Fire being combined, as separating the two actually doesn't allow for any real function on a handful of weapons (as OP suggests).

More on this topic after dev continues to discuss/investigate, but just a general heads up that this is on the radar and may result in a simplified solution where Aim/Secondary bindings are combined.

I'd rather actually get more functionality. 

[Bibliothekar]

@DERebecca: How does one have to imagine those dev talks? "Uhm, the players seem have some problem with AltFire/Aim keybindings, what should we do?" "Any idea what exactly they want?" "Nah, just looked at the thread titles." (Btw, this is actually a problem IMO - many titles are way too click-baity and vague.) "Oh well, let's just merge them and ditch AltFire."

 

use the secondary fire key to change zoom on the snipers

I'd really love that. I've started using my Vandaltron a bit more often again recently because I had grown tired of bows for my stealth/sniper build, and having two or three zoom-steps on the scope would make it much more useful on wide open maps, to scout the place and try your luck on some really long-range headshots before moving in.

[[DE]Momaw]

may result in a simplified solution where Aim/Secondary bindings are combined.

 

But....the problem is that they are already combined, leading to the problem where you can't AIM any weapon that has a secondary fire mode. I would be all over the Buzlok if I could just aim the lousy thing and fire normally instead of being forced to use the tracking shot! Paracyst and Quanta are also some of my least-used weapons despite their interesting mechanics because they can't be aimed properly.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Momaw

[[DE]Rebecca]

The reason it doesn't work (i.e why have the binding if it doesn't work) is because some weapons weren't designed with an aim property but with a secondary fire (i.e it's one or the other, not one and the other). Dev explains that aim brings a bunch of different values into play on those weapons, and because those values aren't set up by design, the binding has no affect. Combining the two is a solution that's being explored because it will represent what's actually happening instead of a bogus setting that does nothing.

[Vanadium]

The reason it doesn't work (i.e why have the binding if it doesn't work) is because some weapons weren't designed with an aim property but with a secondary fire (i.e it's one or the other, not one and the other). Dev explains that aim brings a bunch of different values into play on those weapons, and because those values aren't set up, the binding has no affect. Combining the two is a solution that's being explored because it will represent what's actually happening instead of a bogus setting that does nothing.

 

But you can still understand that we want to be able to ADS with these guns that also have an Alt-Fire function, right? This is just how some of us are wired, and we really have a hard time working with these otherwise cool weapons that won't let us play with them the way that's comfortable for us.

 

Also, again, I hope this has nothing to do with console players and their lack of input options.

[Naftal]

Keeping the seperate alt fire and aim buttons and making it work like people would expect would also open a way for more secondary fire modes even on old weapons.

[CarbonicWolf]

The reason it doesn't work (i.e why have the binding if it doesn't work) is because some weapons weren't designed with an aim property but with a secondary fire (i.e it's one or the other, not one and the other). Dev explains that aim brings a bunch of different values into play on those weapons, and because those values aren't set up by design, the binding has no affect. Combining the two is a solution that's being explored because it will represent what's actually happening instead of a bogus setting that does nothing.

 

@DERebecca

yes, it will represent what is currently happening, but I don't think that is what everyone is wanting, for many of us would like it to be truly separate for better control of situations and weapons, like the Penta, Quanta, Panthera, and so on.

 

Well, a worst case scenario it seems, since it would be cool if I could aim weapons with secondary fire, or use the secondary fire key to change zoom on the snipers (not much of an issue with the mod since it's useless on certain cases). Guess those weapons are dead to development, oh well.

 

This would also be very helpful for Snipers like myself, especially when the Sniper Rifle Revamp I hear rumors about comes out.  I am not too sure which devstream it was said in, but they really do need to be looked at, for while I can get my Vulkar to work, it took at least 3 forma to do so, and it still has trouble at high tier levels and when I am zoomed in.

 

I can also understand those who use controllers not being able to have as many buttons as those using Keyboards and Mouses, but I have tried using a Controller before, but the player can configure the controller their own way to fit them best, which I have done with my controller for whenever I use it.

Edited February 26, 2015 by ScarWDBone13

[[DE]Rebecca]

But you can still understand that we want to be able to ADS with these guns that also have an Alt-Fire function, right?

Yes, the want/feature request is clear, but there are currently it isn't on the table for implementation. Not the best news if you wanted it, but it's the truth at this time.

[Shifted]

may result in a simplified solution where Aim/Secondary bindings are combined.

Nooooooooooooo

 

This is the complete opposite of what people want.

 

let us ADS with those weapons...

 

EDIT:

Tenno'd.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Shifted

[ToxicTroublermaker]

The reason it doesn't work (i.e why have the binding if it doesn't work) is because some weapons weren't designed with an aim property but with a secondary fire (i.e it's one or the other, not one and the other). Dev explains that aim brings a bunch of different values into play on those weapons, and because those values aren't set up by design, the binding has no affect. Combining the two is a solution that's being explored because it will represent what's actually happening instead of a bogus setting that does nothing.

In that case I suggest re purposing the scroll function assigned to pressing the middle mouse button and scrolling it.

The scroll could be put onto alt fire weapons instead so you could switch between them and add in the regular ADS code with scroll as the additional code rather than ADS being an add on to existing code.

If that makes sense

[[DE]Momaw]

But you can still understand that we want to be able to ADS with these guns that also have an Alt-Fire function, right? This is just how some of us are wired

 

+1. I aim all the time. It's reflexive. :(

[TwelfthAngel]

I'm pretty sure you can set alt fire to a different key binding and the same with zoom

[Shifted]

In that case I suggest re purposing the scroll function assigned to pressing the middle mouse button and scrolling it.

The scroll could be put onto alt fire weapons instead so you could switch between them and add in the regular ADS code with scroll as the additional code rather than ADS being an add on to existing code.

If that makes sense

Honestly they dont' even have to think of what would be a good binding for it.

Every player will figure it out by themselves

Just make it work, that's all what's needed.

[egregiousRac]

I'm pretty sure you can set alt fire to a different key binding and the same with zoom

 

Yes you can, but no weapon uses both bindings. This is the issue.

[Vanadium]

Yes, the want/feature request is clear, but there are currently it isn't on the table for implementation. Not the best news if you wanted it, but it's the truth at this time.

 

:(

 

All I can express, I guess...

[Vanhline]

About this option:

There is currently a discussion on the topic which may result in Aim/Secondary Fire being combined, as separating the two actually doesn't allow for any real function on a handful of weapons (as OP suggests).

More on this topic after dev continues to discuss/investigate, but just a general heads up that this is on the radar and may result in a simplified solution where Aim/Secondary bindings are combined.

 

NO!

 

this isn't about doing it the easy way or whatever.

 

even if that binding wasn't showing people would still be asking for this option.

 

there needs to me an alt fire/secondary fire option in the game. there is no reason the penta shouldn't be able to zoom.

 

a secondary fire option could even be used on things like sniper rifles to control a viable zoom option; allowing them greater ease of use in smaller tiles. 

[Zaniux]

Yes, the want/feature request is clear, but there are currently it isn't on the table for implementation. Not the best news if you wanted it, but it's the truth at this time.

Is it because of console users having less button options?

[Sannidor]

Let's hope it is on "to do list" in year of quality. No sarcasm, we really need this fixed.

 

Personally I'd go with zoom=melee block button, as I got quick melee set to right mouse button already.

[ToxicTroublermaker]

Honestly they dont' even have to think of what would be a good binding for it.

Every player will figure it out by themselves

Just make it work, that's all what's needed.

I was refering to scroll and middle mouse button being assigned to abilities and how the devs could re purpose it.

It had nothing to do with workaround key bindings on the player end

[Bibliothekar]

Yes, the want/feature request is clear, but there are currently it isn't on the table for implementation. Not the best news if you wanted it, but it's the truth at this time.

In that case, I (and probably many other players) would rather have you put it on hold (with a high priority once there are enough free resources to work on it) than ditching it altogether. I can't remember you guys giving up on anything else this easily in the past.

[Erelas]

Combining?  Hek no! (pardon the reference).

I was honestly excited to know there was an actual button set aside for this as it gave me hope for all the weapons that I would use and hope to in the future by having this extra use for zoom, secondary, and primary fire.  It adds and makes the game more competent by having this function, especially with regards to weapons that don't have a zoom currently and really need it, or for those that have a zoom (snipers) but could use an iron-sights function.

The current DE response is not a valid means of "fixing", rather it would degrade people's hopes for what this means for future quality of content this year.

[LoopStricken]

Yes, the want/feature request is clear, but there are currently it isn't on the table for implementation. Not the best news if you wanted it, but it's the truth at this time.

 

But... why isn't it on the table?

[Centias]

Yes, the want/feature request is clear, but there are currently it isn't on the table for implementation. Not the best news if you wanted it, but it's the truth at this time.

 

Then I suppose all we can do is hope some room on the table clears so this can eventually get the attention it needs.

[taiiat]

Yes, the want/feature request is clear, but there are currently it isn't on the table for implementation. Not the best news if you wanted it, but it's the truth at this time.

there isn't any implementation problem for Consoles.

if both Actions are available for use, and can be bound separately:

if you bind both to the same button, both would function on the same button. that can be the default for less complex controls.

if you bind them separately, then they work separately.

this works for both PC and Console Platforms identically therefore. there isn't a button volume problem with Console then because bind them to the same Button, which it already does by default anyways.

but it also means that PC Players aren't going to be castrated on their Controls due to worrying that having things work exactly the same as they already do on some Weapons is going to hurt someone.

your Penta, Castanas, Et Cetera already work like this, where it's hardcoded to the FineAim Key. so you zoom in and detonate on the same button.

just move it to the Alternate Fire Keybind, and default them to the same Key. functionally it's the same then, unless someone decides they want to bind them to separate buttons.

but again, the default would be the same.

Edit:

that solves all of the issues.

the only one that can be left, is that the office is busy and it'll take a while to get to fixing this up.

that's fine. we'll wait. we've already been waiting since Penta anyways.

we can be patient, it just needs to be resolved when there's time.

Edited February 27, 2015 by taiiat

[ClockworkSpectre]

Is it because of console users having less button options?

This wouldn't surprise me, and it also would irritate the hell out of me.  DE promised us, back when the PS4 version was announced, that the expansion to console versions would not hold back the PC version, but if this is the reason then that is exactly what is happening. 

 

Also, DE keeps saying Year of quality but barely look like they are heading in that direction after two months, U16 may change this but is is so far behind that it is hard to give it credit.  Having ADS on weapons that also have secondary fire characteristics seems like just a basic feature, Aim zoom/ADS is something all weapons(excluding melee)should have, I am not sure why it wasn't in the game to start with.  The year of quality should include stuff like this. 

Edited February 27, 2015 by ClockworkSpectre