vaugahn Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 (edited) Doesn't seem a lot eh ? Heh. 15-20,000 at any given moment. That's actually quite a bit. We're the 9th most played game on steam right now. And like I mentioned earlier, they're making money off other stuff too. Edited August 11, 2014 by vaugahn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TioMegaManX Posted August 11, 2014 Author Share Posted August 11, 2014 15-20,000 at any given moment. That's actually quite a bit. We're the 9th most played game on steam right now. And like I mentioned earlier, they're making money off other stuff too. The problem with making money out of the other stuff is when any of your other projects burns all your money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 The problem with making money out of the other stuff is when any of your other projects burns all your money. Well we don't know how much this project costs, and how much other money they've made. Don't forget they get money for their work on Bioshock and Bioshock 2, which both made a boatload of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmokinDevil Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I don't think anyone knows how much they have. They aren't hurting though. They are only bring ramen for lunch because they like it, not because they have to eat it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[DE]Artarrwen Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 (edited) $249.99 (Founders Pack) x20 Founders Confirmed = $4,980 Quoted from the wiki: With 207 missions and every mission having 6-9 Solar Landmarks (as of 5-10-2013), over $388,000 USD has been donated from the Grand Master program alone. And that's only the grand masters. Edited August 11, 2014 by Artarrwen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TioMegaManX Posted August 11, 2014 Author Share Posted August 11, 2014 Quoted from the wiki: And that's only the grand masters. Thanks for the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElHefe Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 (edit) ... Total: $101,184,820 It would be rather useful to know how much this takes on taxes, salaries, expenses and more or less how it is used and how much it gets back on average, of course, I just have these rough numbers so I wish I could have more info even if I am only doing basic math. What do you think people? it may be useful to know how exactly DE would need monetary support, specially when people insist one doesn't need to spend real money on the game at all, that would spell bad news for DE in the long run, wouldn't it? Firstly, I have to give you credit for being so bold as to post this topic ... Discussing money and art together is rather like admiring a scalpel Secondly, your attempt of generating a balance sheet is just as tricky as the topic itself ... At the very least range estimates - upper and lower bounds - would have been a sounder approach That said, if you look at the DEV stream footage of office spaces, meeting and dinning and relaxation rooms, replete with ping pong tables and vintage arcade booths, it is safe to say that DE at least is solvent enough to provide an envious work environment ... (haven't seen the Red Bull and Moosehead kegs though) Thirdly, is the main point of your thread to bring into question DE's choice of business model, namely FTP? Given how utterly committed DE is to making Warframe a long term success, do you have some data to support that FTP is inherently untenable? It is obvious that you are a devotee of the game and that you harbor only honorable feelings for DE and the game, so please do not feel that any questions are personally directed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbister Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 (edited) What I really want to know is, where do these player numbers come from. I know 7 million tenno was being thrown around for awhile, which I felt was ludicrous. But 10 million? How could anyone ever arrive at that number when Steam charts have yet to go over 50k. 7 million is the number DE gave during the aniversary event, before you doubt people's knowledge check this new thing called google, and try to find reliable information just like the rest of us do. Edit: here you go! https://warframe.com/news/warframe-numbers Edited August 11, 2014 by Orbister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TioMegaManX Posted August 11, 2014 Author Share Posted August 11, 2014 FTP is sustainable if doing it right, I am trying to just approach this from the business perspective, there is one major complaint when it comes to this game, people either say is OK and basically there is no need to spend money on the game, on the other hand there is people who think the game is more or less punishing them with long grinding times and the like for not paying, when those two collide the discussion boils down to "DE is in dire need of money, the game can't sustain itself through wishes and dreams", so I was trying to figure out what makes it either unprofitable or economically flawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmokinDevil Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Games always like to flaunt numbers. We have X amount of members. Cool. How many of them are alt accounts? Bots? RMTs? People who played the game once and never touched it again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TioMegaManX Posted August 11, 2014 Author Share Posted August 11, 2014 Games always like to flaunt numbers. We have X amount of members. Cool. How many of them are alt accounts? Bots? RMTs? People who played the game once and never touched it again? I would like to know too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbister Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 FTP is sustainable if doing it right, I am trying to just approach this from the business perspective, there is one major complaint when it comes to this game, people either say is OK and basically there is no need to spend money on the game, on the other hand there is people who think the game is more or less punishing them with long grinding times and the like for not paying, when those two collide the discussion boils down to "DE is in dire need of money, the game can't sustain itself through wishes and dreams", so I was trying to figure out what makes it either unprofitable or economically flawed. This may sound too naive but i will risk it anyway, what makes a game's business model "fail" imo, is when people simply don't want to spend money on it, regarding warframe i've noticed a trend in negative design, meaning that they design around penalties instead of "seducing" people to pay for perks and luxuries, the latest example of this is the ridiculous 3 hours period of waiting when you get a kubrow out of stasis, i can change from my carrier to my shade instantly, but from a looter kubrow to stealth kubrow i have to pay, that is bad negative design, and people (me included) don't like paying for things when forced to do so. TL;DR i think the FTP model needs to design around bonuses and not around penalties to be succesful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I would like to know too. The current best estimate based off account numbers and steam stats is somewhere around 70,000 players. That may or may not be correct though, if the stand-alone launcher has considerably more or less players using it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmokinDevil Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 This may sound too naive but i will risk it anyway, what makes a game's business model "fail" imo, is when people simply don't want to spend money on it, regarding warframe i've noticed a trend in negative design, meaning that they design around penalties instead of "seducing" people to pay for perks and luxuries, the latest example of this is the ridiculous 3 hours period of waiting when you get a kubrow out of stasis, i can change from my carrier to my shade instantly, but from a looter kubrow to stealth kubrow i have to pay, that is bad negative design, and people (me included) don't like paying for things when forced to do so. TL;DR i think the FTP model needs to design around bonuses and not around penalties to be succesful. What kind of bonuses would you spend money to buy plat? I already don't spend money on the game. Those better be some good bonuses while still being "fair" f2p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbister Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 The current best estimate based off account numbers and steam stats is somewhere around 70,000 players. That may or may not be correct though, if the stand-alone launcher has considerably more or less players using it. The world doesn't rotate around Steam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSITH Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Well I'm not suprise we are buying large amount of platinum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TioMegaManX Posted August 11, 2014 Author Share Posted August 11, 2014 This may sound too naive but i will risk it anyway, what makes a game's business model "fail" imo, is when people simply don't want to spend money on it, regarding warframe i've noticed a trend in negative design, meaning that they design around penalties instead of "seducing" people to pay for perks and luxuries, the latest example of this is the ridiculous 3 hours period of waiting when you get a kubrow out of stasis, i can change from my carrier to my shade instantly, but from a looter kubrow to stealth kubrow i have to pay, that is bad negative design, and people (me included) don't like paying for things when forced to do so. TL;DR i think the FTP model needs to design around bonuses and not around penalties to be succesful. A better design choice in fact would have been no decay in Kubrow health and only making it so it resets to +0% on stats when left alone, but again, if you ask me, putting timers into everything is a bad design overall. What kind of bonuses would you spend money to buy plat? I already don't spend money on the game. Those better be some good bonuses while still being "fair" f2p. Boosters, consider how stuff like some drop rates and exp got nerfed recently, now Exp Boosters make it so you level at U13 rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmokinDevil Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 How do you make DE more money, make players spend more money and keep players happy? You would still need to know how much they make. Just something. I don't know why anyone would want to spend money on Exp boosters and stuff. I'd rather spend it on something permanent to my account like accessories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion-Shields Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I really think it should be a player's business, specially when there is something like a founder's program, let's be fair, founders should be entitled to some kind of report.beer, bills, business, bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TioMegaManX Posted August 11, 2014 Author Share Posted August 11, 2014 How do you make DE more money, make players spend more money and keep players happy? You would still need to know how much they make. Just something. I don't know why anyone would want to spend money on Exp boosters and stuff. I'd rather spend it on something permanent to my account like accessories. Precisely, even some "permanent" items are essential and quite rare, not to mention you can be cheated out of them like trying to make a sentinel or a pet worth the effort by using a reactor, then it turns out is useless (Helios) or it dies without spending more resources (Kubrow), even though we will condemn Valve for the hatconomy, the cosmetics-only markets and the battle-boosters have been way more successful, as simple as they said, make everything tradable, distribute value randomly, make the player feel rewarded instead of blackmailed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElHefe Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 FTP is sustainable if doing it right, I am trying to just approach this from the business perspective, there is one major complaint when it comes to this game, people either say is OK and basically there is no need to spend money on the game, on the other hand there is people who think the game is more or less punishing them with long grinding times and the like for not paying, when those two collide the discussion boils down to "DE is in dire need of money, the game can't sustain itself through wishes and dreams", so I was trying to figure out what makes it either unprofitable or economically flawed. Clear answer about FTP ... much appreciated Regarding your MESSAGE regarding the schism between "payees" and "nonpayees" and the discordance of opinion regarding Warframe's solvency, I think that the issue is simple ... If EVERYONE choses NOT to pay anything - because that's their RIGHT to do so under DE's provisions - then the phrase "pennywise but pound foolish" comes to mind If EVERYONE contributes because they see the value in it, then Warframe will last as long as DE has ideas for it If SOME contribute because they see the value in it BUT they do not begrudge those who don't, this is what is called being a PATRON of the arts TIME spent in game play or contributing to the forums or both is essential to the vibrancy of the game and its ultimate success However, personally I find those who are BOASTFUL that they haven't spent a dime on the game are not only misguided in their pride but also undermine the very existence of FTP All one has to do is remember Fiorello La Guardia said in 1933 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DesecratedFlame Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Warframe has surpassed 10 million registered users, according to a recent press release, and developer Digital Extremes is celebrating the free-to-play game about exoskeletal space ninjas' success with a new patch. http://www.joystiq.com/2014/07/24/warframe-registers-10-million-space-ninjas-adopts-space-pets/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade343 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Warframe has surpassed 10 million registered users, according to a recent press release, and developer Digital Extremes is celebrating the free-to-play game about exoskeletal space ninjas' success with a new patch. http://www.joystiq.com/2014/07/24/warframe-registers-10-million-space-ninjas-adopts-space-pets/ But how many are active? After all, registered and active are not linked together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion-Shields Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Clear answer about FTP ... much appreciated Regarding your MESSAGE regarding the schism between "payees" and "nonpayees" and the discordance of opinion regarding Warframe's solvency, I think that the issue is simple ... If EVERYONE choses NOT to pay anything - because that's their RIGHT to do so under DE's provisions - then the phrase "pennywise but pound foolish" comes to mind If EVERYONE contributes because they see the value in it, then Warframe will last as long as DE has ideas for it If SOME contribute because they see the value in it BUT they do not begrudge those who don't, this is what is called being a PATRON of the arts TIME spent in game play or contributing to the forums or both is essential to the vibrancy of the game and its ultimate success However, personally I find those who are BOASTFUL that they haven't spent a dime on the game are not only misguided in their pride but also undermine the very existence of FTP All one has to do is remember Fiorello La Guardia said in 1933 ... apart from the caps, well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DesecratedFlame Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I find those who are BOASTFUL that they haven't spent a dime on the game are not only misguided in their pride but also undermine the very existence of FTP How is it any different than those that use the amount they have spent as virtual ePeen? I haven't spent a cent on this game, and that in no way undermines the game. In fact, it is one of the driving factors of the F2P monetization strategies. Knowing that the game is actually viable without ever spending a cent brings in more potential customers. Where I think DE's strategy is falling flat is one, they are trying to annoying people into spending money, rather than making people happy to spend money, and two, the game is actually more fun if you don't spend money on it. The entire point of the game is loot hunting. If you buy the loot then you have missed the entire point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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