Warframe Economics?

[(PSN)VillNess]

They are entitled to the exclusive content they paid for.

 

Most sales are probably made through 50% or 75% plat discounts and prime access. There is a ton of plat around not being used and it's pretty easy to get through trading.

 

And then there are players like me who haven't spent a dime. I've been here since closed beta and I have no intention of spending money on the game.

Talk about appreciation and support for the game...

In region chat people were saying how they have all prime stuff, 10 000 warframe and weapon slots, 1 000 000 plat and have played for 500+ hours and haven't spend any money on the game. People like this make me wonder how cheap they can be. Let's all quit spending any cash and see how game devs will continue making the game playable just by purity of their hearth.

[SmokinDevil]

Lolwut. It's business strategy plain and simple. DE and every other dev know full and well what they are getting into. They aren't children. If you call your game F2P it should be F2P. I'm done being 'tricked' by F2P games and Warframe will be the last one I play. I just don't like it. I learned the hard way with league. The only pay wall in the game is the impatient pay wall. And I'm a very patient man.

 

 

I'd rather spend $60 on a game knowing things were at least somewhat fleshed out. 

[Niryco]

Well for a F2P model, the 80/20 principle should hold strongly, where 80 percent of the players generate 20% of the income, while 20% of the players generate 80% of this games income.

 

However the argument of whether warframe needs money is abit hard to establish. The monetary value you are counting towards does not firstly take into account cost or any rise in prices or inflation or taxes or whatever, essentially it does not take into account changes in time. Therefore as much as your figure can show, it really does not explain anything even if players knew how much the game has made or what the cost are, because overall only 20 percent of the players would care enough and provide 80 percent of the support by principle.

 

Although this would not be a very good argument against the warframe needs money, what i see is that DE's financial department is constantly being brought up when ever there is money involved and they are brought up so often I have this thinking that they have already been given a very good forecasting of warframe's digital sales. Thus they would know where their profits lies and it is through packaged sales and partially from early weapon access. Helmets and accessories don't yield that much profits in general and neither does resources.

 

These observations are derived based on how some of these items are acquirable free through effort and how others are not.

 

Those they are usually acquirable free in my opinion tend to just provide a few pennies towards the overall profits. Those that are sure sellers would stay that way so that players would want to get them, this would mean most orokin reactors/cats, prime access, early weapon access set and maybe even rush timers.

 

This just shows that the financial department has everything in order and is sucking out as much support as they can get from the 20% who truly care because that is what they can only do. You can't coax the other 80% to care because if you did they probably still wouldn't care or worse still leave the game because they claim the game became P2W and thus jeopardize potential income. Therefore none of this needs to be known, if it did DE would have already done it, as players our job is to support this game by playing it and be a potential spender.

 

The argument is just a guilt trip because DE has a financial department that accounts everything and the 20% of the players that care would support this game no matter what. Even if i did not support it by spending, the 20% of the players would cover my support and that is all i care.

[thatdamnlobster]

I don't care personally. KEEP PUMPING OUT GREAT S#&$ DE!!!

[ElHefe]

How is it any different than those that use the amount they have spent as virtual ePeen? I haven't spent a cent on this game, and that in no way undermines the game. In fact, it is one of the driving factors of the F2P monetization strategies. Knowing that the game is actually viable without ever spending a cent brings in more potential customers.

 

Where I think DE's strategy is falling flat is one, they are trying to annoying people into spending money, rather than making people happy to spend money, and two, the game is actually more fun if you don't spend money on it.  The entire point of the game is loot hunting.  If you buy the loot then you have missed the entire point.

 

First off, it is my general belief that any bragging is simply poor form

I make reference to pride, which is a tricky thing but best left as quiet satisfaction as when expressed merely serves to create discord

You make reference to entitlement or sense of indebtedness which is even more insidious than pride

 

Therefore, I agree with your implied positions that no one - not those who spend lavishly nor even the Founders - have entitled themselves as they were simply exercising free choice

 

However, I do not believe that you have discredited my position that as a whole "nonpayees" kill the golden goose ...

The time that you personally have spent contributing to the game in these forums and with bringing in other players is indisputable and as I stated before, is equivalent to a player who has paid money

 

I agree that F2P can be a persuasive enticement to a new player; however, much like any other business that makes use of "free introductory offers", maintaining supply eventually requires purchases

 

Secondly, customer feedback is vital and fortunately DE has made a point of their focus (again I refer you too Steve Sinclair's interview)

Consequently, DE will change their offerings based upon sales and customer feedback ... really it's quite a simple error correction code

It is our job - the customer - to let the manufacturer know what we want

It is also our lot to realize that we will never get everything we ask for

 

Finally, about earning equipment in game as opposed to purchasing (or trading) on the market

This dichotomy has been addressed in many, many threads already so I need not dwell on it other than to say both sides are legitimate

The satisfaction of winning a piece from a game boss can be exhilarating - unfortunately not every player has either the time or the same ability and so "hustling" is a viable alternative

Edited August 11, 2014 by ElHefe

[ElHefe]

Well for a F2P model, the 80/20 principle should hold strongly, where 80 percent of the players generate 20% of the income, while 20% of the players generate 80% of this games income.

 

Interesting fact ... do you have a reference or source?

All in all, I follow your reasoning and find it calmly compelling

 

As a footnote, this may be relevant to the present topic:  http://www.geekwire.com/2011/experiments-video-game-economics-valves-gabe-newell

 

[Cpt_Atroxium]

Let's just say that warframe will be good in the end. We can only assume what they have made profitable towards this cause. Other than that, non of our business. 

[CatPhoenix]

Since all the money from your numbers is from the first number.  I would say there is a flaw in your logic.

 

There is no F2P game where everyone puts money into it.  This will never happen.  And from what I recall from other topics, if you have 20% playing customers with a F2P game, you should consider yourself extremely lucky.

 

And, the 10M number should also be taken with a grain of salt because there is like a number of those that are duplicate/second account or the same people replaying the game from scratch.

 

And to quote some numbers from a really quick google search

 

from 5 years ago, puzzle pirates, only had 10% of their player base putting money into the game every month

http://games-beta.slashdot.org/story/09/06/09/2038248/how-much-money-do-free-to-play-mmos-make

 

And with mobile games, you're luck if 2.2% pay anything.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-04-22-dont-be-surprised-that-just-2-2-per-cent-of-f2p-players-spend-money

Of course this makes sense for tiny, throw away experiences.

 

How does it work with Warframe?  I think you could split the game into a few different groups.

 

A) People whom pay nothing and play for a short period of time

B) People whom pay nothing, and farm materials to trade for platinum

C) People whom have paid a small-large sum once and have yet to since

D) People whom have spent all their platinum and have purchased more because of X  (x being an item or a discount)

E) People whom keep on buying platinum to get all the best stuff as soon as possible

 

As long as DE keeps on putting out content, there will always be people from D & E purchasing platinum.  And, as long as they keep on making exclusive content that cannot be bought, but only won a piece at a time, there will be players playing the game more often in group B to fill their wallets and spend it on items.

 

It's an interesting little economy DE has going here, one that is constantly fed by two things, new content and new players.  DE has less control over new players, but as long as they keep on making content, and people want said content, people will buy and trade platinum for said content and the grand DE moa server monster can be feed.  Moa Hungry!

[RSITH]

Since all the money from your numbers is from the first number.  I would say there is a flaw in your logic.

 

There is no F2P game where everyone puts money into it.  This will never happen.  And from what I recall from other topics, if you have 20% playing customers with a F2P game, you should consider yourself extremely lucky.

 

And, the 10M number should also be taken with a grain of salt because there is like a number of those that are duplicate/second account or the same people replaying the game from scratch.

 

And to quote some numbers from a really quick google search

 

from 5 years ago, puzzle pirates, only had 10% of their player base putting money into the game every month

http://games-beta.slashdot.org/story/09/06/09/2038248/how-much-money-do-free-to-play-mmos-make

 

And with mobile games, you're luck if 2.2% pay anything.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-04-22-dont-be-surprised-that-just-2-2-per-cent-of-f2p-players-spend-money

Of course this makes sense for tiny, throw away experiences.

 

How does it work with Warframe?  I think you could split the game into a few different groups.

 

A) People whom pay nothing and play for a short period of time

B) People whom pay nothing, and farm materials to trade for platinum

C) People whom have paid a small-large sum once and have yet to since

D) People whom have spent all their platinum and have purchased more because of X  (x being an item or a discount)

E) People whom keep on buying platinum to get all the best stuff as soon as possible

 

As long as DE keeps on putting out content, there will always be people from D & E purchasing platinum.  And, as long as they keep on making exclusive content that cannot be bought, but only won a piece at a time, there will be players playing the game more often in group B to fill their wallets and spend it on items.

 

It's an interesting little economy DE has going here, one that is constantly fed by two things, new content and new players.  DE has less control over new players, but as long as they keep on making content, and people want said content, people will buy and trade platinum for said content and the grand DE moa server monster can be feed.  Moa Hungry!

yep

[ElHefe]

(edit) ...

 

How does it work with Warframe?  I think you could split the game into a few different groups.

 

A) People whom pay nothing and play for a short period of time

B) People whom pay nothing, and farm materials to trade for platinum

C) People whom have paid a small-large sum once and have yet to since

D) People whom have spent all their platinum and have purchased more because of X  (x being an item or a discount)

E) People whom keep on buying platinum to get all the best stuff as soon as possible

 

As long as DE keeps on putting out content, there will always be people from D & E purchasing platinum.  And, as long as they keep on making exclusive content that cannot be bought, but only won a piece at a time, there will be players playing the game more often in group B to fill their wallets and spend it on items.

 

It's an interesting little economy DE has going here, one that is constantly fed by two things, new content and new players.  DE has less control over new players, but as long as they keep on making content, and people want said content, people will buy and trade platinum for said content and the grand DE moa server monster can be feed.  Moa Hungry!

 

Good descriptive ... 1+

 

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

However, I do not believe that you have discredited my position that as a whole "nonpayees" kill the golden goose ...

 

I agree that F2P can be a persuasive enticement to a new player; however, much like any other business that makes use of "free introductory offers", maintaining supply eventually requires purchases

Thing is, in most F2P games the majority of players will spend very little or nothing at all.  A small, dedicated percentage will basically go crazy with purchases and support the game.  Free players are also vital to that, and this is why. 

 

One, even if paying players like to brag, they don't like to play alone.  Nothing kills a game faster, especially an MMO, than a dwindling player base.  If there is no one to play with then even paying players will move on.

 

Two, free players want cash shop items, but they can't/won't spend the real world money to get them.  Paying players want in game items but they don't have the time to get them.  In good F2P games, this creates a perfect economy. The paying players sell cash shop items to free players then use that to buy the in-game items that they need.  Everyone gets what they want.  It also works out for the Dev because the paying players are paying for things that they have no need of themselves and would not have purchased otherwise.

 

Those are two big reasons free players do not "kill the golden goose".

 

Secondly, customer feedback is vital and fortunately DE has made a point of their focus (again I refer you too Steve Sinclair's interview)

Consequently, DE will change their offerings based upon sales and customer feedback

 

Except the refuse to entertain the most important one, which is a reevaluation of the prices. There are packs that cost more than a brand new triple A title.  A pack with 3 weapons costs $54 US.  The Skana costs $10.  It's just outrageous. This is the number two reason I have not spent any money on the game. Even though I could afford it, these prices are just not reasonable to me. This is coming from someone who spent hundreds of dollars on DFO and  probably will again when it rereleases.

[TioMegaManX]

Since all the money from your numbers is from the first number.  I would say there is a flaw in your logic.

 

There is no F2P game where everyone puts money into it.  This will never happen.  And from what I recall from other topics, if you have 20% playing customers with a F2P game, you should consider yourself extremely lucky.

 

And, the 10M number should also be taken with a grain of salt because there is like a number of those that are duplicate/second account or the same people replaying the game from scratch.

 

And to quote some numbers from a really quick google search

 

from 5 years ago, puzzle pirates, only had 10% of their player base putting money into the game every month

http://games-beta.slashdot.org/story/09/06/09/2038248/how-much-money-do-free-to-play-mmos-make

 

And with mobile games, you're luck if 2.2% pay anything.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-04-22-dont-be-surprised-that-just-2-2-per-cent-of-f2p-players-spend-money

Of course this makes sense for tiny, throw away experiences.

 

How does it work with Warframe?  I think you could split the game into a few different groups.

 

A) People whom pay nothing and play for a short period of time

B) People whom pay nothing, and farm materials to trade for platinum

C) People whom have paid a small-large sum once and have yet to since

D) People whom have spent all their platinum and have purchased more because of X  (x being an item or a discount)

E) People whom keep on buying platinum to get all the best stuff as soon as possible

 

As long as DE keeps on putting out content, there will always be people from D & E purchasing platinum.  And, as long as they keep on making exclusive content that cannot be bought, but only won a piece at a time, there will be players playing the game more often in group B to fill their wallets and spend it on items.

 

It's an interesting little economy DE has going here, one that is constantly fed by two things, new content and new players.  DE has less control over new players, but as long as they keep on making content, and people want said content, people will buy and trade platinum for said content and the grand DE moa server monster can be feed.  Moa Hungry!

I hope you fully read the first post, as I said, rough numbers at best and the "everyone bought 10 bucks of plat once" is basically an average considering not all people buy plat and some people buy plat more than once, for example, I may have bought like 100 bucks worth of plat in 4 months before I finally decided to quit Warframe.