Jump to content

Devstream 34 Part 2, Star Chart And Chat Updates


Recommended Posts

No news on the nausea-thing? All the menus and boxes jumping around is killing me. Why do they have to be see-through and moving?! Also, the mod-UI is horrible, everything could be done on the same page before. Getting new players to understand the old system would only need a small introductory video. It's really annoying jumping all over the place if you have to mod (especially between games). The solar-chart problems have already been covered by others.

When/where can I donate a ship? Starting in the ship is annoying me, feels cramped and unnecessary. Completely ruins the immersion for me (because I only see it as an annoyance). Luckily, I've never really played with the sound on since update 10, so Ordis isn't any problem (although the box he and Lotus uses covers chat at random intervals). Please give me back the old UI, this one has only (so far) been effective in keeping me away from playing. Don't let the UI ruin a great game, at least wait until PW (potentially) ruins it for you...  

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well this might sound stupid but im still gonna ask it :P

 

Now that the liset playership covers what seems to me all the functions in the game, im still wondering about what would you guys have in plan for the big playership that the liset attaches to? (If its coming)

 

For those who not know what i am talking about here is an image:

 

9gR1IUE.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Regarding the starchart "and progression within a world is fairly obvious".

Are we playing different builds?

 

I just cannot believe anyone could say that the node progression is obvious.

The lines with nodes that showed our path was infinitely better than the tiles around a planet that make no sense whatsoever.

 

Edit: I'm going to refrain from commenting too much on the "Planet Necklace", other than to say that it is not just worse than the previous starchart, it is worse than the one before that.

It even defies the whole immersion theme you guys aimed for with the UI, how does a necklace of planets feel more immersive than something that actually resembled the Solar System?

Edited by Egg_Chen
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

It even defies the whole immersion theme you guys aimed for with the UI, how does a necklace of planets feel more immersive than something that actually resembled the Solar System?

 

I think it was all the people who kept saying it wasn't to scale or that planetoids and moons where out of place.

 

They probably thought "screw it, we'll just make it clear it's an abstraction and not a literal map."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You know what gets me, here is 30 seconds of thought on the Starmap.

 

- Remove the kneeling Tenno

- Make it look like a hologram that appears out of the console, which the camera zooms in on.

- Add a list of planets to the side for easy controller navigation.

- Moving through the list with either controller or mouse slightly enlarges that planet, and a dialog box pops up with resources, active squads, etc.

- Allow the mouse to also highlight planets for those of us who know Pluto is near the edge and Mars is near the Sun.

 

Job done, still immersive, more controller friendly, fits in with the Liset theme.

 

... 30 seconds.

Edited by Egg_Chen
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There’s a lot to cover when it comes to UI, and although Part 1 of our Devstream 34 Overview tackled some of it we’re still a bit away from bringing our UI to a place we’re absolutely happy with.  Fortunately we have a pretty good idea of what needs to be addressed sooner than later, so lets jump right into Part 2 taking a look at what elements have been a success and what still needs to be fixed.

 

Pablo is very happy with the Genetic Lab and how direct it is in guiding players to the information they need to know.  The checklist is straightforward and feels really easy to just read and understand, and there are elements of the game that he wants to bring this sort of simplicity over to.  Forma is the prime example of a gameplay element that needs an update within the UI, since it’s difficult to tell what you’re supposed to do with it as a new player.

 

Dorian on the other hand is quite happy with modding.  Users are able to understand what you’re supposed to do with mods, and with their redesign via the Liset there’s no way for a new player to miss or go past it.  The goal is for every feature to be just as intuitive.

 

Do these improvements of the UI also include expanding the player ship visualy?

 

You did the right thing putting all the necessary equipment menus in a small room, unlike the Normadys in the Mass Effect games where you had to travel around between 3 spots of the ship (sometimes via the elevator urgh), just to choose equipment, armor design, research, etc..

 

While the new UI is overall slower than the old one and not allowing modification of your equipment while in the mission selection, it's at least still reasonable quick thanks to that design.

 

However at the same time it actualy makes it look like the Liset is just a bit bigger on the inside, rather than being connected to a base ship. Players don't get any indicator that their dropship is connected to another ship (the dropship being the only thing they see at the beginning of missions and during the loading time) and all the player can access to the base ship is just a tiny room with a few consols. So the entire base ship might aswell be only that room, a fuel tank and a FTL drive if players know about it at all. This of course raises questions like where the Tenno store all their stuff?

 

Of course it's possible that you did decide to simply make the Liset bigger on the inside and there is no base ship anymore which the Liset is connected to. In that case i'm a donkey who didn't got the memo. Ha.

 

However if you do still insist that the Liset is connected to a bigger base ship, i think it would be nice if that could be expanded on while still retaining the equipment room.

 

For example making the area around the arsenal a bit bigger, so the arsenal can be walked around. Behind that being a door that leads to the rest of the ship. So new players would still have all the necessary stuff right infront of their eyes and all the fancy ambient stuff is behind the important stuff.

The rest of the ship could then be a bit bigger, like 7 rooms. One for your weapons (all lined up), one for your Warframes (a bit like a walkthrough closet), one where your resources are shown to be stored, one where your Foundry is shown working, one for trophies, one for your Kubrow and maybe a small training room at the back where you can test out weapons. Each doubeling as secondary access for what you have in the small entrance room and being relative tight packed to create a bit of a submarine feeling (unlike the big empty feeling of the dojos).

 

Of course if such additions would ramp up loading times, i think we are better of with the small room. In that case nevermind.

 

I hate to say it, but sitting and thinking of, "What would be the best way to handle the star chart?" and filling in ideas, it ends up looking remarkably like the one we had to begin with, with no intention of trying to get there.

 

Same here. It just felt very intuitive for me when i started. Though the levels of the systems were a bit weird back then, Saturn was a low level area and Earth a mid level area. This was of course later fixed.

Edited by Othergrunty
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Compared to the older version the new chart is easier for beginners to understand because it doesn’t overload the player with information.  You only see what you need to, and progression within a world is fairly obvious.  That breaks down somewhat when moving from planet to planet, and while it’s not absolutely critical that players know which planet is next the information does help tie the player into the world.

no-anime-kill-la-kill-gif-in-comments_gp

 

What you just said cannot be further from the truth. It's the complete opposite of what a large fraction of the community is feeling.

 Compared to the older version the new chart is stupidly harder for beginners to understand because it doesn't provide the player with any information. You don't see what you need to, and progression within a world is hardly obvious. This is even worse when moving from planet to planet, and because it is absolutely critical that players know which planet is next the lack of information doesn't help in tieing the player to the world.

 

The simple fact that you can say such a thing boggles the mind.

bc8.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Easier to understand" my @$$. Old starchart was straightforward and as simple as killing a lvl1 grineer. There were missions, there were lines between missions showing you how you progress... And that's it, there's nothing left to learn about the UI itself. New star chart UI tries and fails to solve a problem that wasn't even there.

 

But sure. It's pretty. Go pat designers' back, he earned one point for that.

 

[edit] gotta read the thread before commenting, gotta read the thread before commenting, gotta read the thread before commenting.

 

While we're at it, could someone remind Mod UI designer that it's supposed to be fluid and fast to use, not just pretty? You only earn one point for pretty, and they don't stack.

Edited by GTG3000
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Starmap would be better, if you could scroll through the planets while having them "zoomed". To switch you have to go back, pick next planet, zoom in, etc. (for example, if you want to look for Nightmare Mission or other stuff). Just .. not so good. Also why I am always set back to the standard view after a mission or so? Would be nice to have the planet centred on which I was last.

Same with the Extractors: before, you could leave them deployed as long as you would dare. Now, you do not just get the Ress but also the Extractors back, so you have to deploy them again. One step you could skip =/

 

Second: The Missions around the planet have no order/ make no sense, which is visible on first sight. I still do not really know whats the meaning of the different layers around the planet. In the Void, on the other hand, it is perfectly obvious and great to look at (Void T1 is the "lowest layer" moving outwards to T4 (last layer)).

 

El Psy Congroo

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well this might sound stupid but im still gonna ask it :P

 

Now that the liset playership covers what seems to me all the functions in the game, im still wondering about what would you guys have in plan for the big playership that the liset attaches to? (If its coming)

 

For those who not know what i am talking about here is an image:

 

9gR1IUE.jpg

Warframe porn factory.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well this might sound stupid but im still gonna ask it :P

 

Now that the liset playership covers what seems to me all the functions in the game, im still wondering about what would you guys have in plan for the big playership that the liset attaches to? (If its coming)

 

For those who not know what i am talking about here is an image:

 

9gR1IUE.jpg

Perhaps it will come with that "Vesper relay" thing...

 

 

Yup D.E. , we haven't forget about it...

500px-Warframe_-_Developer_Livestream_22

Edited by unknow99
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also, when you vote for a DS mission you used to be able to click on the clan/alliance's symbol and that would bring you to the accept for clan1/clan2 screen. When you accepted that would count as a vote. Now you have to do one more step and click accept in the top left. And why doesn't escape cancel a vote? It does for everything else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will say that the change in the starchart does solve the issue I had when I first started, which almost lost me as a player. I missed the 'Select Mercury' instruction, and so I had no idea what to do. The only reason I found out what to do is that I was playing it through Steam, so when I quit a friend who played asked me what I thought of it, and then explained what to do. Additionally, I really like the non-linear nature of the planets now.

 

The problem I have with it is the lack of understanding of how the planets link together. It should either be linear like the UI implies (I don't like this idea), or the UI should be rearranged to give some sort of tree structure for them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Genetic Imprints menu is TOO simple. It should, at the very very least, tell you the type of kubrow it was taken from.

 

I'd be alot happier if the imprint's name read "Sunika Imprint" instead of "Doge's Imprint" considering knowing the Kubrow's name does nothing for me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well this might sound stupid but im still gonna ask it :P

 

Now that the liset playership covers what seems to me all the functions in the game, im still wondering about what would you guys have in plan for the big playership that the liset attaches to? (If its coming)

 

For those who not know what i am talking about here is an image:

 

9gR1IUE.jpg

We already have it. According to everything said and shown to you in-game and described in dev streams, the ramp designates the cut-off division between the landing craft and the orbiter, and if you've ignored everything everyone has said, and all the text that was written, you can still check to see that there's weathering on the exposed plates on either side of the ramp, and clamps holding them in to place.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Genetic Imprints menu is TOO simple. It should, at the very very least, tell you the type of kubrow it was taken from.

 

I'd be alot happier if the imprint's name read "Sunika Imprint" instead of "Doge's Imprint" considering knowing the Kubrow's name does nothing for me.

Why not both? Better yet, even have it show a pic of the kubrow it came from on it? That way you know what colors and what demeanors you're in store for.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will say that the change in the starchart does solve the issue I had when I first started, which almost lost me as a player. I missed the 'Select Mercury' instruction, and so I had no idea what to do. The only reason I found out what to do is that I was playing it through Steam, so when I quit a friend who played asked me what I thought of it, and then explained what to do. Additionally, I really like the non-linear nature of the planets now.

 

The problem I have with it is the lack of understanding of how the planets link together. It should either be linear like the UI implies (I don't like this idea), or the UI should be rearranged to give some sort of tree structure for them.

 

You are presented with bunch of planets with a lock symbol on all except one and you get confused? Even if you were to select any one of them it would have still showed you the big map you can drag and scroll around until you find the starting point.

Are you telling me you didn't even click through the menus before calling it quits? Expecting players to browse through a simple menu is hardly too much to ask.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please +1 this if you like the idea:

I think a really awesome (and simple) way to do the Solar Map, could also be an awesome improvement to the view in the Liset. Basically, the front of the ship comes out a little bit more, so that the glass window is more of a half-globe rather than a panel. The Solar Map Button would still be in the same place and a large holographic image would appear, filling the entire "globe" that is there now. Instead of being all visible in a circle, the planets are actually much larger and in a 3d view - this view is able to be rotated, and then "zoomed" in and out with the mouse wheel. Please keep in mind that "zoomed" here means going through the planets in order to show other planets behind them sort of in the distance.

I believe this could make the Solar Map have a much more spacey and limitless feel as you would be able to rotate the camera in such a way that there is nothing but a few stars etc. There could be some sort of pathing system to traverse the new layout, with locked planets greyed/blacked out with a handy mouseover feature that shows the boss to kill to get the Nav Segment. I've also seen another members idea of the Nodes being actually ON the planet, with small ships etc. in view as other Nodes. This works very well with my idea to give the whole Solar Map an awesome feel.

EDIT: To make this fit the current theme, you could even just have the camera zoom right in to being almost first person (like modding but maybe even closer). It would be awesome because A: all the planets are easily turn-able to (unless of course you have a problem with AIMING in an action game) and B: the planets would be huge and awesome looking right up close and level with us and C: you could show Nodes all the time because the PLANET becomes the thing that you can rotate!

Hope people like!


EDIT: Fixed spelling

Edited by Shrinity
Link to comment
Share on other sites

no-anime-kill-la-kill-gif-in-comments_gp

 

What you just said cannot be further from the truth. It's the complete opposite of what a large fraction of the community is feeling.

 Compared to the older version the new chart is stupidly harder for beginners to understand because it doesn't provide the player with any information. You don't see what you need to, and progression within a world is hardly obvious. This is even worse when moving from planet to planet, and because it is absolutely critical that players know which planet is next the lack of information doesn't help in tieing the player to the world.

 

The simple fact that you can say such a thing boggles the mind.

bc8.jpg

Pfff.

If I were you, I wouldn't have any expectations about DE UI team after this one:

 

This is a difference in direction, you are thinking ease of use is king, where to us immersion is king. You could certainly make the argument that the foundry information could be easier to read as an excel sheet, but it's not what we are going for.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dorian on the other hand is quite happy with modding.  Users are able to understand what you’re supposed to do with mods, and with their redesign via the Liset there’s no way for a new player to miss or go past it.  The goal is for every feature to be just as intuitive.

 

The Star Chart is a great example of this, but there’s still a lot of discussion in what could need improvement.  Compared to the older version the new chart is easier for beginners to understand because it doesn’t overload the player with information.  You only see what you need to, and progression within a world is fairly obvious.  That breaks down somewhat when moving from planet to planet, and while it’s not absolutely critical that players know which planet is next the information does help tie the player into the world.

The issue we all have with the modding thing is that when we open up our collection menu, we have to step back out to fusion a mod. then, if we want to sell mods, we have to step out of fusion and click on the option to sell the mods. If we want to Transmute, then we have to exit the Sell menu just to get to the Transmute menu. Soooo many steps for simple processes. Even then, there's always our Warframe are blocking it. And if we're selling things, we have to go back and forth between the Mod Station and the Foundry to check what we have on hand and what we need to buy.

 

"Compared to the older version the new chart is easier for beginners to understand because it doesn't overload the player with information." 

 

THIS^^^^^^ i have massive problems with. I've recruited new players into my clan, and they've always asked questions like "What boss is where?", "Which boss unlocks which planet?", "How many planets are there?", "How do you unlock the next mission?". And for every one of those questions, I've answered MORE THAN ONCE with an "I don't know" or "I have no idea". I've had to say that so many times it's an automatic response for me when they ask questions about the Star Chart. We've had to fight so many different bosses just because we all have no idea what unlocks what and who is the next boss, nor why the Star Chart doesn't have flow or connectivity.

 

If you didn't want to overload them with information, why not put a lock symbol over the planets they haven't unlocked yet? And when you hover over the planet that's locked, it'll tell you something like "Defeat Lech Krill on Ceres to unlock this planet". That way they know which boss to fight, and they know where to go to unlock that planet. 

 

Even when you unlock all the planets, the ring is so crowded, it doesn't flow well, the progression between planets isn't clear, and there isn't any connectivity between the system. Nodes as well, I've got everything unlocked, and even I don't know what opens what.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting read, but something here sticks out like a very sore thumb to me...

 

The Star Chart is a great example of this, but there’s still a lot of discussion in what could need improvement.  Compared to the older version the new chart is easier for beginners to understand because it doesn’t overload the player with information.  You only see what you need to, and progression within a world is fairly obvious.  That breaks down somewhat when moving from planet to planet, and while it’s not absolutely critical that players know which planet is next the information does help tie the player into the world.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I love the idea behind the new Star Chart but it is the absolute opposite of what you just said.  New players may not have the potential to be "overloaded with information" but they have the opposite effect in that they get 0 information about anything.  In just the few days I've been playing Warframe on PC (yay for finally having a good computer) I've seen innumerable counts of the following questions.  Granted it took me all of five seconds to sort out the answer to practically every one of these, I'm far from an average player;

 

  * How do I know which levels I've already beaten?

  * Where is X resource?

  * How do I unlock x planet?

 

Those questions are en mass and rampant as hek.  The answers to the latter two basically don't exist at all with the new Solar Chart, the player cannot see things they can't reach and therefore have no way of ever knowing.  The former question has a very clear answer but is never explained... and sadly people are horrible at figuring things out in this day and age.  But player problem solving aside it does clearly counter the quoted statement.

 

Again, while the new Chart is quite gnarly looking, it's hardly intuitive and to think it's better at conveying information is wholly false.  It's just purely an immersion thing and nothing more in its current stage.  Doesn't mean it can't become better at throwing knowledge to players while keeping that immersion, but the facts need to be presented or moving in a proper direction cannot occur.

Edited by (PS4)Bobtm0
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting read, but something here sticks out like a very sore thumb to me...

 

 

Now don't get me wrong, I love the idea behind the new Star Chart but it is the absolute opposite of what you just said.  New players may not have the potential to be "overloaded with information" but they have the opposite effect in that they get 0 information about anything.  In just the few days I've been playing Warframe on PC (yay for finally having a good computer) I've seen innumerable counts of the following questions.  Granted it took me all of five seconds to sort out the answer to practically every one of these, I'm far from an average player;

 

  * How do I know which levels I've already beaten?

  * Where is X resource?

  * How do I unlock x planet?

 

Those questions are en mass and rampant as hek.  The answers to the latter two basically don't exist at all with the new Solar Chart, the player cannot see things they can't reach and therefore have no way of ever knowing.  The former question has a very clear answer but is never explained... and sadly people are horrible at figuring things out in this day and age.  But player problem solving aside it does clearly counter the quoted statement.

 

Again, while the new Chart is quite gnarly looking, it's hardly intuitive and to think it's better at conveying information is wholly false.  It's just purely an immersion thing and nothing more in its current stage.  Doesn't mean it can't become better at throwing knowledge to players while keeping that immersion, but the facts need to be presented or moving in a proper direction cannot occur.

X resource is shown above it and you learn how to gain them by the first mission you are set out to do: kill Vor. It was pretty self explanatory that kill X boss will unlock the next planet. However the levels completed thing is needed for everyone because that can easily confuse players who may be gone for a week or so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dont see what the problem is with the new starchart and selecting missions.

 

Granted you dont have a more or less straight forward path like you did before, but this isnt really that hard to understand or hard to use.

 

 

I honestly dont see what the problem is, not only does it make it infinetly easier for console users, it still accomodates pc players just as well and it gives you any information you would need.

 

Could it be better? Of course, theres always room for improvement.

 

But I hardly see the new UI or star chart as a bad thing and the old system was better. In fact, I enjoy pretty much every change  they have made, with the exception of allowing kubrows to die. That is the ONLY thing I currently do not like about warframe.

 

Though I do have various ideas that I would love to see inside warframe, but I dont think its the kind of direction DE wants to go.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...