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Devstream 34 Part 2, Star Chart And Chat Updates


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I honestly dont see what the problem is, not only does it make it infinetly easier for console users, it still accomodates pc players just as well and it gives you any information you would need.

 

PC version should never be compromised to work on consoles. Yet it happens all the time and I'm sure is one of the main reasons PC gamers have such a disdain for porting and switching focus to console platform like this. Only acceptable way this should be handled is to have completely seperate UI for consoles and PC.

The only reason you could bring up is they don't have the resources for 2 different projects like this but this would only reinforce my previous point of PC losing because of consoles.

These are different platforms. Make them function on their own standards and don't force a compromise.

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Interesting read, but something here sticks out like a very sore thumb to me...

 

 

Now don't get me wrong, I love the idea behind the new Star Chart but it is the absolute opposite of what you just said.  New players may not have the potential to be "overloaded with information" but they have the opposite effect in that they get 0 information about anything.  In just the few days I've been playing Warframe on PC (yay for finally having a good computer) I've seen innumerable counts of the following questions.  Granted it took me all of five seconds to sort out the answer to practically every one of these, I'm far from an average player;

 

  * How do I know which levels I've already beaten?

  * Where is X resource?

  * How do I unlock x planet?

 

Those questions are en mass and rampant as hek.  The answers to the latter two basically don't exist at all with the new Solar Chart, the player cannot see things they can't reach and therefore have no way of ever knowing.  The former question has a very clear answer but is never explained... and sadly people are horrible at figuring things out in this day and age.  But player problem solving aside it does clearly counter the quoted statement.

 

Again, while the new Chart is quite gnarly looking, it's hardly intuitive and to think it's better at conveying information is wholly false.  It's just purely an immersion thing and nothing more in its current stage.  Doesn't mean it can't become better at throwing knowledge to players while keeping that immersion, but the facts need to be presented or moving in a proper direction cannot occur.

I hate to say it, those questions are nothing new. In fact, I see far less of "where is X resource", which has always been the most common and annoying of the questions.

 

i don't see much of the other two questions, but once I thought about them it once again took about 5 seconds to work them out, and if I'd been progressing through from the beginning I think it would have been more obvious.

The boss system needs work to make the unlock order clear, but the best advice is to play through whatever you can unlock. The only time that's not good advice is if you're trying to carry a new friend through by going out of order, in which case that's your problem, honestly-you should know how to get that info, or just accept you have to spend more than 5 minutes helping them (oh no!). Oh wait, that doesn't even work anymore because you can't unlock nodes out of order even if you are carried, or it that just alerts? Anyway, go through in order and stop trying to break the progression curve and it'll all work smoothly.

Edited by SolarDwagon
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Indeed the planet map lacks any sense of progression and direction and the main menu has poor readability and is slow to get around.

Iv made some suggestions of simple ways to improve it without redesigns, hope it gets noticed   https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/286945-simple-ui-improvements-ideas-with-mockup-pics

 

Simply overlaying the current map with paths would already solve the confusion of where to go and how to get to the next planet.

It's not the prettiest way, just a quick illustration to the suggestion. 

2gsihhe.jpg

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If you want to fix the UI, Totzman had some very good mockups. The one above my post by Monolake is also very good, as it adds a layer of connectivity of the nodes, and connects one planet to the other. Below is the link to Totzman's thread:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/266471-some-u14-ui-suggestions-with-screens/

qR7FiOo.png

Edited by AlphaHorseman
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Airwolfen also made a post in the UI Feedback section, about the menu sway, and WHY it isn't going to help players:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/268583-u14-ui-feedback/page-19

 

Here is what we have right now:

 

ZqqBzLj.png

 

Here is what Pablo is suggesting with this 'Slider':

 

jjn1vPn.png

 

I admit, it helps, a tad bit, but it see also that it shrinks the text, and its still slanted, and it doesn't read well.

 

Now this is what people are asking for when they say 1st person view for the Menu's

 

mFvRwkU.png

 

 

all pictures are from Airwolfen's post

 

Now would ya look at that! Everything is ledgible, everything reads well, and it helps with "Immersion". How is there immersion when I'm looking over the shoulder of my WarFrame? It feels like I'm disconnected from my Frame, and its Him/Her, and not I, that is playing the game. if you want us immersed in the world, make the menu's 1st person NOT ONLY to make us be the actual Frame looking at the Menu's, but to stop the sway issues people are having, and solve the legibility of the menu's on the left side to the right.

 

The menu can still be Diegetic with the 3D model still there, and the screen still being see-through, AND it solves so many of the problems we have with the UI right now.

Edited by AlphaHorseman
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all pictures are from Airwolfen's post

 

Now would ya look at that! Everything is ledgible, everything reads well, and it helps with "Immersion". How is there immersion when I'm looking over the shoulder of my WarFrame? It feels like I'm disconnected from my Frame, and its Him/Her, and not I, that is playing the game. if you want us immersed in the world, make the menu's 1st person NOT ONLY to make us be the actual Frame looking at the Menu's, but to stop the sway issues people are having, and solve the legibility of the menu's on the left side to the right.

 

The menu can still be Diegetic with the 3D model still there, and the screen still being see-through, AND it solves so many of the problems we have with the UI right now.

 

The problem isn't the tilt, it's the frame blocking the menus, the way the text is rendered, and the menu moving with the mouse.

 

ZqqBzLj.png2G9wTEs.jpg

The tilt is very slight on most menus, but because the frame is in the way the user has to tilt the menu more, which is what causes problems. Simple fix: slide the frame all the way off the screen like in the market.tUve5mM.jpg

 

Maybe that's not as easy as I think it is, but considering we have a menu that's already working properly and yet the other ones are still messed up it seems a little bit far-fetched to assume it would be hard to do.

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all pictures are from Airwolfen's post

 

Now would ya look at that! Everything is ledgible, everything reads well, and it helps with "Immersion". How is there immersion when I'm looking over the shoulder of my WarFrame? It feels like I'm disconnected from my Frame, and its Him/Her, and not I, that is playing the game. if you want us immersed in the world, make the menu's 1st person NOT ONLY to make us be the actual Frame looking at the Menu's, but to stop the sway issues people are having, and solve the legibility of the menu's on the left side to the right.

 

The menu can still be Diegetic with the 3D model still there, and the screen still being see-through, AND it solves so many of the problems we have with the UI right now.

 

Thank you for the credit :)

 

The problem isn't the tilt, it's the frame blocking the menus, the way the text is rendered, and the menu moving with the mouse.

The tilt is very slight on most menus, but because the frame is in the way the user has to tilt the menu more, which is what causes problems. Simple fix: slide the frame all the way off the screen like in the market.

 

Maybe that's not as easy as I think it is, but considering we have a menu that's already working properly and yet the other ones are still messed up it seems a little bit far-fetched to assume it would be hard to do.

 

Said the main problem was the frame in my old post as well, though the tilt is a problem, just one resulting from the frame in the way.

 

And while i used a excessive tilt, photoshop actually renders the text right so i had to distort the picture even more in order to give off the same unreadability of the text as Warframe (Yeah Warframe has crappy AA for text and other flat elements. Because Warframe does not render that text well when tilted on the far side. And indeed, the simple fix is that the frame moves to the side, But our two UI designers seem to ignore that completely and want to go for a over the top useless fix. Hell, I cant even read the tilted text at the modding screen at times so I look for mods based on the picture now...

 

I think the fix is very easy actually. The tilting should be based on mouse position so you can even trick it with a fake position, Done. The frame Should be controlled by x,y position and that should be easy to tweak, Done. Fixed all problems, but no, we need to make stuff smaller just so we can keep that inconvenient frame in the way. The UI of warframe is simply too big for other objects in the frame. And that is exactly what they tend to keep. sigh...

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Thank you for the credit :)

 

 

Said the main problem was the frame in my old post as well, though the tilt is a problem, just one resulting from the frame in the way.

 

And while i used a excessive tilt, photoshop actually renders the text right so i had to distort the picture even more in order to give off the same unreadability of the text as Warframe (Yeah Warframe has crappy AA for text and other flat elements. Because Warframe does not render that text well when tilted on the far side. And indeed, the simple fix is that the frame moves to the side, But our two UI designers seem to ignore that completely and want to go for a over the top useless fix. Hell, I cant even read the tilted text at the modding screen at times so I look for mods based on the picture now...

 

I think the fix is very easy actually. The tilting should be based on mouse position so you can even trick it with a fake position, Done. The frame Should be controlled by x,y position and that should be easy to tweak, Done. Fixed all problems, but no, we need to make stuff smaller just so we can keep that inconvenient frame in the way. The UI of warframe is simply too big for other objects in the frame. And that is exactly what they tend to keep. sigh...

 

The thing is, some of the menus are totally fine. The market is great, the foundry seems to be working well for me now, it's just the mods one that's still a problem, and I'm not quite sure why. Removing a column from it might work, but moving the frame out of the way is really the solution here. The wiggle wouldn't even be bad if the frame didn't bodyblock half the menu sometimes.

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The thing is, some of the menus are totally fine. The market is great, the foundry seems to be working well for me now, it's just the mods one that's still a problem, and I'm not quite sure why. Removing a column from it might work, but moving the frame out of the way is really the solution here. The wiggle wouldn't even be bad if the frame didn't bodyblock half the menu sometimes.

 

Taking a row of the mod list is not a option, Otherwise it will just become a scroll fest to get to you mods. And the reason for that is still the frame. Indeed they did it on other menus. they alowed more space and that makes is so that the movement can be kept to a minimum (still would like to just have a flat screen though so a can stop having to move to the middle position in order to read the entire page propperly.

 

Still do not know why a third person view in the menus helps with "immersion" though.

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Taking a row of the mod list is not a option, Otherwise it will just become a scroll fest to get to you mods. And the reason for that is still the frame. Indeed they did it on other menus. they alowed more space and that makes is so that the movement can be kept to a minimum (still would like to just have a flat screen though so a can stop having to move to the middle position in order to read the entire page propperly.

 

Still do not know why a third person view in the menus helps with "immersion" though.

 

Making the menus stationary and getting the frame out of the way is (still) the best solution. They can still keep the tilt, in the middle position and right it's slight enough as to not affect usability. 

 

It's a little immersion trick. It doesn't work for everyone, sadly. The idea behind it is essentially that menus take you out of the game world and into a video game, and putting the character there looking at the menu brings you back into the game world. It's solid in theory, but just because of differences in the way we think it only really works for like two thirds of people.

 

You know, it almost makes me a little sad. Despite all the gripes people have with the UI, nobody disagrees that the menus themselves are phenomenal. They all look really nice now, but the bad position totally ruins it.

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Making the menus stationary and getting the frame out of the way is (still) the best solution. They can still keep the tilt, in the middle position and right it's slight enough as to not affect usability. 

 

It's a little immersion trick. It doesn't work for everyone, sadly. The idea behind it is essentially that menus take you out of the game world and into a video game, and putting the character there looking at the menu brings you back into the game world. It's solid in theory, but just because of differences in the way we think it only really works for like two thirds of people.

 

You know, it almost makes me a little sad. Despite all the gripes people have with the UI, nobody disagrees that the menus themselves are phenomenal. They all look really nice now, but the bad position totally ruins it.

I'd agree that the menus do look phenomenal, it's just how their implemented that is killing it. For me, the Frame still blocks parts of the Foundry, and I have to move the mouse to the left completely to get a good view of things on the left side. Sadly, this moves the menu to the point where things on the right start to go off screen. I agree, the Frame is the problem, and, for me, so is the tilt. But that's my personal preference, it's why a lot of us wanted a First Person POV, would help with legibility, and with the reduced sway I'm thinking a 1st Person POV would add, it would be really helpful to quell the nausea people are feeling.

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Indeed the planet map lacks any sense of progression and direction and the main menu has poor readability and is slow to get around.

Iv made some suggestions of simple ways to improve it without redesigns, hope it gets noticed   https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/286945-simple-ui-improvements-ideas-with-mockup-pics

 

Simply overlaying the current map with paths would already solve the confusion of where to go and how to get to the next planet.

It's not the prettiest way, just a quick illustration to the suggestion. 

2gsihhe.jpg

+1, looks great, keeps the current UI.

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I still do not understand how is the current messy pile of random blocks thrown around a planet "easier to understand" than the old one where you had a simple clear path going from start to end. Not to mention the planets themselves are also in a big pile with no real reason to the order.

You should just get rid of the wheel selection mentality.

I know the Older planet nodes were better and graphically pleasing.

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