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Psa: Weapon Changes (Sniper Rifles & Launchers)

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Acrid:

Damage increase to 35 is nice though. Still it doesn't bring the Acrid back to former glory.

That's a massive buff. Like insane. Against corpus a pure toxic build assuming only head shots (which is no easy feat in combat) was already pretty good.

 

Print out comparing old stats to new stats same mods being used

TWRSLiu.jpg

ptJ5SCe.png

 

(And yes, that's Head Shots only against corpus flesh if you're wondering.)

 

spreadsheet model used found here https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/261845-dps-spreadsheet-found-here-includes-procs-and-armor-scaling/#entry3043420

 

I made a special graph specifically for acrid starting around cell M200 to include the 100% toxic proc rate. It's pretty accurate for most things with a few work in progress as mentioned in the thread.

 

 

I mean, you could justify the fact that this game thrives on enemies only having an average life expectancy of 3-4 sec so the massive 9 second tic isn't relevant. But man, toxic dmg ignores shields too >.>. The only hard part is finding a mouse macro capable of getting the theoretical rate of fire. 

 

If this was the intention and not just a spur of the moment buffing frenzy I'm all for it but whoa nelly.

Edited by Quizel

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Gah, really? Really? Halving ammo capacity for launchers would be acceptable, but reducing most launchers maximum ammo capacity to less than a tenth of their original is the most horrendous thing I have ever heard of. How is anyone supposed to be able to use these weapons, even with added ammo capacity? You are completely lobotomizing these weapons to the point where they won't even be viable with builds that maximize their damage and ammunition capacity, not at early game,and definitely not at late game. This is a terrible idea, DE, and you will have ruined the arsenals of many people by doing this. I wouldn't even change launcher weapon ammo capacity, but if I really wanted to, I'd only halve it instead of decimate it. Please do not do this, because how else am I supposed to use weapons like the Angstrum? I'll get 7 clips with 21 ammo, the equivalent of half of a round of corpus defense. I doubt that is even enough to be reliant on such a weapon.

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All Launchers:

Launcher weapons now use Sniper Ammo Pool.

Won't that be a double nerf by reducing their max ammo capacity in addition to making them use sniper ammo pool since sniper ammo drops less often and gives less ammo than rifle ammo?

 

Edit: Also, OMG flux and acrid buff! * faint *

Edited by tantananan
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why... ?

just WHY?

WHY YOU DO THIS, DIGITAL EXTREMES?

WHY DID I SPEND MY TIME GIVING FORMAS TO MY ANGSTRUM... ?

WHY DID I WASTE MY HOURS IN THIS GAME?

WHY DID I REACH THE MASTERY RANK 10?

YOU CAN'T DO THIS, DIGITAL EXTREMES, YOU CAN'T >:'(

  • Upvote 7

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So not only is the ammo reserve being reduced- ammo pickup quantity is halved (Rifle = 20, Sniper = 10) and is rarer. As a Penta user, I'm glad that I built 200 Medium Team Ammo Restores in advance. Looks like I'll actually have to consider if I really need to use a grenade for that one stray Lancer.

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Great changes but what exactly is the role of snipers compared to bows really? If u want people to pick purely on visual appeal then match the crit to the bows so they can get red crits otherwise they wont match the bows ever. Since u are buffing other weapons plz plz buff the supra and braton prime they need so badly!

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More updates from Dev HQ on further weapon tweaks – still subject to change, but a quick look for you!

 

The Angstrum:

Base ammo increased to 30 (from proposed 21) considering the volume of projectiles launched.

 

The Acrid:

Base damage increased from 20 to 35.

Critical Chance increased from 2.5% to 5%.

Crit multiplier increased from 1.5x to 2x.

 

The Attica:

Fire rate increase – almost doubled.

Clip size increased from 8 to 16.

Damage increased from 100 to 125.

 

Spectra & Flux Rifle:

Both are now more Ammo efficient.

More base ammo in clips.

Faster fire rate.

Damage Increases for both weapons.

 

Snipetron (+Vandal):

Added 2.5 puncture depth (3 for Vandal).  

Increased damage from 100 to 125 (125 to 150 for Vandal).

Reduced reload time from 4 s to 3.5 s.

 

Torid changes:

Impact of Projectile: 15% Proc Chance.

Gas Cloud changes:

Now has 10% Critical Chance.

Now 2x Critical Multiplier

Now has 40 DPS in Gas Cloud.

Damage radius increase from 1.75m to 3m

 

All Launchers:

Launcher weapons now use Sniper Ammo Pool.

does this mean the Sniper Ammo Mutation mod will get a visual update or no? Perhaps plug in a new mod?

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Hm, is anything planned for the amprex/synapse?

 

I don't know about the synapse personally, but Amprex burned ammo ridiculously fast. Critical delay was practically a double benefit.

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So am I the only one who figured Sniper ammo would become Special Ammo?   Besides that I hope Miter goes to Rifle Ammo since well it deserves it.

 

Also the Snipetron buffs feel way too weak compared to the other two snipe buffs, I like the idea on punch-through but if Bow can out Crit them then it's still pretty meh, I would prefer if they were given say a high Crit Rate and Multi given the legacy of these two rifles, the first Sniper Rifle and the First True Event Weapon of Warframe should at least line up to that legacy shouldn't they?

 

Besides that Attica's Buff seems decent but maybe boosting it's Flight Speed would help along with say making it silent after all it is a crossbow.

 

Also any Sibaris/Tigris Buffs?

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I LOVE ALL THESE CHANGES... except all sniper need to have increase critical chance at have a 2.5x crit or higher since well bow still kill over every sniper-rifle due to well red crit (this does not mean u are to nerf them, they are fine the way they are and when will u guys make stealth melee a 100% kill?)

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They have the same fire rate.

It reloads one second faster than the new Vulkar will. That is not enough to make up for the lack of damage.

I said "they're" meaning I was referring to the Snipetron Series. The Snipetron Vandal not only does less damage than New Vulkar, but it also has the same crit multiplier and only a slightly higher crit chance. It isn't going to be competing at all.

No, it really isn't. And if it wasn't clear, I was talking about how they'll compare after their buffs. New Snidal<New Vulkar and that is VERY sad.

here is the stats with the buffs,

Snipetron vandal | Vulkar

Dmg:150 200

Magizine:6 6

Crit:2x 25.0% 2x 20.0%

Fire rate: 1.5 1.5

Proc: 15% 25%

Reload: 2 sec 3.5 sec

Accuracy:13.3 13.3

Puncture: 3 0

in conclusion i still think the snipetron vandal will be better than the vulkar with that 3 puncture, 1.5 faster reload, and 5% more crit chance.

EDIT: the vulkar with max crit is 59.6 and the snipetron vandal is 74.5 at max crit chance(max point strike and critical delay.) thats 14.9% more of the time that you dealing crit damage.

Edited by BoomToon43

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These changes are welcome. I don't understand some of the negative criticism here... A "Grenade Launcher" or a "Rocket Launcher" should really only be used in a situation when one shot is guaranteed to kill 5+ enemies. That or an exceptionally armored enemy. People using their Angstrum to finish clearing that ONE guy left in the room, huddled behind the box need to re-think the weapon's use. +1 to EVERYTHING... Except the Torid, perhaps if it's radius were sufficient, and the time it stayed on the ground spitting out damage were increased.

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I immediately regret having a blue potato and multiple formas in both my penta and my angstrum. This feels like when blizzard nerfed Increased attack speed on all existing items in diablo 3 by 50%. If I'd have known the DE team hadn't the capability to do math beyond a middle school level, I don't think I'd have given them any money to support what I believed to be a flowering game.

 

Not to over-react, but I think it needs reminding that we are a consumer base, we have a right to show some entitlement as the reason these companies exist is because people pay for their product. The problem with the nerf to weapons like this, is not that it's happening, but that they will nerf them 7 ways from sunday and give no second thought to refunding formas, blue potatoes, weapon slots, (Or plat for those who purchased them directly).

 

While I can understand that some nerf to ammo capacity was necessary ammo capacity on these weapons were not innately a problem, it's other elements in the game that allowed them to flourish in many different circumstances. which will no longer be the case as there will be only... 7 shots available at stock on an angstrum?

 

if you're going to fail at math, and then nerf things based on your shortcomings, the least you could do is provide some consolation to the people that devoted time to the things you're nerfing and allow them to make the decision afterwards of whether or not that time was worth it after you decided that having bullets was an over-rated concepts for a game where all you do is commit mass genocide . . . with guns.

Very rightly said. Couldn't have said it better myself.

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So I just noticed mostly everyone who saw the changes to launchers was pissed due to losing out on pretty much being able to easy mode a already easy game, maybe now it'll be more of planning when to use the Launchers.  I mean really Ogris and Penta are like Nuke Launchers with infinite ammo at the moment with this they retain their damage all they lose is the ability to be used infinitely which makes the more Le Gasp Balanced.  If anything now they'll be like what launchers should be, a weapon that is meant for large crowds or a tough enemey not for nuking the ant that looked at you funny. 

 

I have used these guns and found is too easy to just click and Alt+Tab to watch videos while just using a single nade per wave maybe two if I missed a guy and still have 535 extra ammo, sure the time of LOLAFK Def in ODD is over but at least adapt to the change it's not that big of a loss.  But really isn't more of a blessing. 

 

Now if you excuse me I'll just go back to wondering about how much more powerful Vulkar Wraith will be compared to Sniptron Vandal given that Wraiths tend to be double everything their natural counterpart is.

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here is the stats with the buffs,

Snipetron vandal | Vulkar

Dmg:150 200

Magizine:6 6

Crit:2x 25.0% 2x 20.0%

Fire rate: 1.5 1.5

Proc: 15% 25%

Reload: 2 sec 3.5 sec

Accuracy:13.3 13.3

Puncture: 3 0

in conclusion i still think the snipetron vandal will be better than the vulkar with that 3 puncture, 1.5 faster reload, and 5% more crit chance.

EDIT: the vulkar with max crit is 59.6 and the snipetron vandal is 74.5 at max crit chance(max point strike and critical delay.) thats 14.9% more of the time that you dealing crit damage.

First of all, Vulkar's reload is 3 seconds, not 3.5. 1 second is a much smaller difference, albeit still noticible.

 

Second, I've mentioned this in my previous post: Shred is an obvious choice in any snipers that doesn't already have innate punch through, as it helps make up for both their slow speed and gives them punch through. And in most situations, 1.2 punch is more than enough. 3 isn't really that necessary unless you've got a perfectly lined up hallway (the only good example I could think of is Tower Defense's main door). So having a good innate punch through means all you're really getting is the choice to switch over to Speed Trigger for faster fire rate. This is good in terms of DPS, but suffers somewhat from both Snipetrons having relatively low magazine. (Granted, SVandal can ignore it a lot better between the two). 

 

Note that I didn't bother with running both Shred and Speed Trigger, as most sniper's low clip size makes a super fast fire rate somewhat ineffective. Not to mention most players should probably be focusing on the DPH rather than purely DPS when it comes to snipers.

 

Finally, no one in the right mind with basic understanding of math is going to run Critical Delay in an already slow firing weapon. You get more damage boost from running any elemental mod instead of critical delay and they don't bring addition disadvantage to the fire rate. Even with respect to the Vectis, which ignores fire rate entirely, it is better to run an elemental mod over Critical Delay.

 

I am not saying Snipetron Vandal doesn't have its niche. 2 second reload is still a lot more comfortable than 3 seconds and the aforementioned Tower Defense hallway is a very good place for it to shine. But the truth is, these changes have made it barely on par with the Vulkar (when it used to outshine it) and made the original Snipetron barely even worth considering (when it used to be on par with Vulkar). 

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There are some questionable reductions. First one is Torid, since its rather weak as is so capping its ammo so low seems way overkill. Second is Angstrum, since having a secondary fire mode  that consumes x amount of ammo means youll have 7 clips to use, or 3 if you max out the clip size to 7. Also, why did you skip over Quanta, Mutalist Quanta and the Bow Mod Thunderbolt? Each are basically launchers as well. Mutalist Quanta and Quanta deal no friendly, meaning you can run in and explode everything for high damage and Thunderbolt turns any bow into a mini launcher but with quadruple the ammo, or there about. If I have to use my secondary as my primary ranged attack once my Launcher runs dry half way though the first wave of a defense or survival, I dont see a point in using them anymore. If you insist on these caps though, why not make a fourth slot for a heavy weapon, like what was suggested a page or so ago? That at least insures I dont need to depend on my secondary wave/minute 1 to deal damage and it at least insures I dont run completely out of ammo by wave/minute 20 or so.

 The reason the quanta wont get nerfed for awhile is its new so they got to make all other launchers nerfed to hell so people will buy the quanta. New guns come out old ones get nerfed so you will want the new ones. Then they wash rinse and repeat. they have been doing this for quite awhile. almost every gun is a beast when its released after people buy it they nerf it to make room for the next beast. 

 

 Dont get me wrong I love DE or I wouldnt have spent so much money on this game. Im just pointing out its a marketing tactic not a balancing issue. if it was a balance issue they wouldn't  have waited half a year to nerf the ammo

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Tenno,

A coming Update (likely next week’s PC update - August 13th) will include some important weapon changes for the Grakata, various launcher weapons, and sniper rifles. The ammo capacity of most launcher style weapons will be reduced to bring them more in line with what is appropriate for heavy weapons. The damage on sniper rifles will been increased to make them more rewarding to use, and the Grakata will have its ammo capacity increased. Specific details can be found below.

Grakata

-Ammo capacity increased from 675 to 750.

Angstrum

-Ammo capacity reduced from 210 to 21.

Castanas

- Ammo capacity reduced from 210 to 30.

Ogris

-Ammo capacity reduced from 540 to 20.

Torid

- Ammo capacity reduced from 540 to 20.

Penta

-Ammo capacity reduced from 540 to 20.

Lanka

Normal Attack

-Damage increased from 50 to 100.

-Critical multiplier increased from 1.5x to 2x.

Charged Attack

-Damage increased from 250 to 300.

-Critical chance increased from 20% to 25%.

-Critical multiplier increased from 1.5x to 2x.

Vectis

- Damage increased from 175 to 225.

- Proc chance increased from 5% to 30%.

- Reload time reduced from 1 to .85 of a second.

Vulkar

- Damage increased from 145 to 200.

- Clip size increased from 4 to 6.

- Critical multiplier increased from 1.5x to 2x.

- Reload time reduced from 4 to 3 seconds.

___

09/08/2014 Update: Just a quick update from dev on some of the points being raised in this thread:

More work to come, you've all raised good points. The Torid will get an additional pass to bring it up to 'launcher' par. The Snipetron family will be reviewed, as well as the Miter.

As we make our way through these posts and the threads they link to, we will see what else is to come in this batch of balance passes!

___

11/08/2014 Update:

Tenno,

More updates from Dev HQ on further weapon tweaks – still subject to change, but a quick look for you!

The Angstrum:

Base ammo increased to 30 (from proposed 21) considering the volume of projectiles launched.

The Acrid:

Base damage increased from 20 to 35.

Critical Chance increased from 2.5% to 5%.

Crit multiplier increased from 1.5x to 2x.

The Attica:

Fire rate increase – almost doubled.

Clip size increased from 8 to 16.

Damage increased from 100 to 125.

Spectra & Flux Rifle:

Both are now more Ammo efficient.

More base ammo in clips.

Faster fire rate.

Damage Increases for both weapons.

Snipetron (+Vandal):

Added 2.5 puncture depth (3 for Vandal).

Increased damage from 100 to 125 (125 to 150 for Vandal).

Reduced reload time from 4 s to 3.5 s.

Torid changes:

Impact of Projectile: 15% Proc Chance.

Gas Cloud changes:

Now has 10% Critical Chance.

Now 2x Critical Multiplier

Now has 40 DPS in Gas Cloud.

Damage radius increase from 1.75m to 3m

All Launchers:

Launcher weapons now use Sniper Ammo Pool.

Please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Give all sniper rifles Punch Through!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THIS IS SOMETHING WE KEEP ASKING YOU FOR!!!

If we are asking you for it, it is because its for a good cause! We are your game testers. We play this everyday! Please believe our feedback when we say all sniper rifles needs innate punch through!!!

This not my opinion this is what the whole community is begging for!

Edited by OrphanMaker
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Hey DE you need to put variety in the sniper rifles. One has to be the slow hard hitter (Vectis). One has to be the medium firerate, medium magazine, medium damage sniper rifle. One has to be the high firerate, high magazine, low damagage sniper rifle.

 

 

Vectis = slow hard hitter - 50% crit chance

Vulkar = medium - 7 magazine, 3.5 firerate, 35% crit chance

Snipetron = fast - 17 magazine, 7 firerate, 30% crit chance

Grinlok = cowboy - 12 magazine, 4 firerate, 25% crit chance

Edited by OrphanMaker
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let's see. using the Sniper Pool, as many have mentioned, not surprised, but does that mean 72 and Sniper Pickups or the proposed numbers and Sniper Pickups.

 

this also still has Torid in an awkward place. it doesn't deal upwards of tens of thousands of Damage to a group of Enemies per shot. it's a lot less 'effective' than the other Launchers, and therefore needs to spray a lot more Ammo to kill things. the stat increases on Torid will help, but that might only reduce the shots needed to kill an Enemy within a couple seconds from 6 to 5.

i know that you guys know that Torid was hanging on it's basically infinite Ammo Pool to be considered useful. with a much smaller one, each shot needs to be about as effective as some sort of dirty bomb to make the Ammo it's using enough to not run out after one group of Enemies.

 

i like the mild Damage increase on Acrid, but the weirdness of the guaranteed Toxin Effects is more of an issue, i think. they don't seem to quite line up with the Damage Toxin Effects are supposed to do off of their basic Damage. i'd guess it's not scaling quite right with Mods.

 

Snipetron Series concerns me. those are good for them, but now Lanka is not unique. at all. Lanka brings nothing to the table. the extra 2m of Piercing doesn't make it stand out.

so why does Lanka even exist anymore? piercing Enemies isn't unique even inside it's Weapon Class anymore, it doesn't stand out in Status, it stands out a bit in Damage but that's not really relevant once it inevitably doesn't kill with one shot, Et Cetera.

Lanka has nothing unique to it. so, with that being the case, what role is it supposed to fill? it doesn't have a role. or any reasons for a player to use it over another Sniper Rifle.

 

I still want to know, launchers max 20 or 72?

 

72 would be acceptable, 20 with Sniper Ammo pool just means Ogris and Penta will gather dust.

 

Also, do we get Legendary Cores for the heavy nerfs to Angstrum, Ogris, and Penta like the Steel Charge nerf?

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I still want to know, launchers max 20 or 72?

 

72 would be acceptable, 20 with Sniper Ammo pool just means Ogris and Penta will gather dust.

 

Also, do we get Legendary Cores for the heavy nerfs to Angstrum, Ogris, and Penta like the Steel Charge nerf?

This is true they are giving them to harsh a nerf. They already destroyed the ammo pool, and now they are giving them sniper ammo. Unless DE increase sniper ammo drop rates, this will be a game breaker!

Edited by OrphanMaker
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