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Ammo Nerf Protest


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I'm being serious though... make all LMG machineguns have like 7-8 second reload speeds without mods so that people have a reason to use the Burston again... and rocket launchers use sniper ammo so rifle mutators don't work... who's the one's that not informed again?

Totally agree.
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Why on earth are you playing an open beta game if you want something complete? Seriously, there are hundreds of other games out there that are finished products. Go play one of those instead of this one.

 

When I requested for my materials to be returned, I specifically stated Digital Extremes has no obligation as a company to comply to my request. I was hoping however, that in the name of good business ethics they would consider my request.

 

Open Beta Agreement says nowhere that Digital Extremes is bound to listen to us, provide us DevStreams or Prime Time livestreams, to post patch notes in a humorous fashion, to have a support desk that answers requests as quickly as they do, but Digital Extremes does this in the name of ethics, showing that they care about their customers. They could just leave us in the dark like some other developers, but even though they do not have as many resources as many triple-A developers, they maintain a developer-player relationship on such a personal level that I myself am indeed astounded they are able to do. 

When U14 rolled around and they didn't get to it in time for a Thursday release, Open Beta Agreement did not state they were bound to honor these time agreements. They could have easily went to bed and finished it the next day. Instead, they stayed up all night, got it finished as soon as possible, and pulled a livestream where they took the issue of it being late light-heartedly even when many people complained about them "not honoring a promise". 

If it were a developer from some other company, of some other MMOs I have played, I would have never made this request in the first place, because I know it would have simply been tabled indefinitely, aka. forever. But since it is Digital Extremes, I felt that since they are such a company, that perhaps investing time to put together a request would not be in vain.

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I'm being serious though... make all LMG machineguns have like 7-8 second reload speeds without mods so that people have a reason to use the Burston again... and rocket launchers use sniper ammo so rifle mutators don't work... who's the one's that not informed again?

 

Rifle mutation mods work for Penta/Ogris despite not being a Sniper mod.

But you just filter out all the evidence or words that might actually threaten your petty worldview.

 

I also love my semi-autos and treat the Soma as a select-fire rifle while running a Mutation Mod.

So despite your attempts at being petty, I'm just rolling my eyes at you.

Edited by PlayGooYa
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When I requested for my materials to be returned, I specifically stated Digital Extremes has no obligation as a company to comply to my request. I was hoping however, that in the name of good business ethics they would consider my request.

 

Oh, that wasn't about you. That was directed at that other guy.

 

I wouldn't hold your breath on a refund, but it's not out of the question. I know a lot of people got play refunds when they changed the look of the Dendra armor, and they were pretty good about getting the old colors back in when those got changed. They're usually decent about that kind of stuff.

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A Volt once on Pluto alert survival against grineer took the challenge in going in sword alone using the whip and speed(with Fury)...take a wild guess who got downed the most.

 

If you guess Volt, you are wrong, Volt Volt never got shot down once, he often slide swiped in, slice n diced all grineer, came out like it was nothing. Kept doing so over and over into the 20min survival on pluto alert. When someone needed saving, Volt came along, wiped everyone out, revived that persona and he'd do it again and again and again, he'd often use block as well, used a gamepad as well, even the heavies went down in 2 seconds all because of that whip. 

 

he never stopped, not even 15 minutes in although they got tougher. best part of all that was he never ran out of energy despite channeling all throughout the fight and spamming speed and shield wen needed. He never used his 4th attack or 1st. Always ran into a bunch of grineer especially heavies, many would think he'd be dead by now but he always survived. Whip alone, no guns, people dying around him.

 

The moral of this story is that you don't even need any explosive weapons to be badass and overpowered. I bet one of them has an explosive weapon and still died. Who needs explosives when you got channeling along with warframe that support melee and Mirage. And melee NEVEr has to reload or is there a limit ammo pool. With enough mods

 

SWORD ALONE > OGRIS, PENTA, ETC.

 

Now imagine Mirage with that whip or any quick or long melee weapon or Attica with thunderbolt(rapid fire(assault rifle) rockets) :)

 

And remember folks, guns cannot block

Edited by JacobLittle
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Rifle mutation mods work for Penta/Ogris despite not being a Sniper mod.

But you just filter out all the evidence or words that might actually threaten your petty worldview.

 

I also love my semi-autos and treat the Soma as an select-fire rifle most of the time with a Mutation Mod.

So despite your attempts at being petty, I'm just rolling my eyes at you.

YES you can fit the mutator on the rifle... but that doesn't mean it will convert your ammo because you're not picking up rifle ammo... you apparently didn't use the miter enough to know that it also still has this problem... not to mention the even worse problems that have risen by using an angstrum and anything else that uses sniper ammo together.

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A Volt once on Pluto alert survival against grineer took the challenge in going in sword alone using the whip and speed(with Fury)...take a wild guess who got downed the most.

 

If you guess Volt, you are wrong, Volt Volt never got shot down once, he often slide swiped in, slice n diced all grineer, came out like it was nothing. Kept doing so over and over into the 20min survival on pluto alert. When someone needed saving, Volt came along, wiped everyone out, revived that persona and he'd do it again and again and again, he'd often use block as well, used a gamepad as well, even the heavies went down in 2 seconds all because of that whip. 

 

he never stopped, not even 15 minutes in although they got tougher. best part of all that was he never ran out of energy despite channeling all throughout the fight and spamming speed and shield wen needed. He never used his 4th attack or 1st. Always ran into a bunch of grineer especially heavies, many would think he'd be dead by now but he always survived. Whip alone, no guns, people dying around him.

 

The moral of this story is that you don't even need any explosive weapons to be badass and overpowered. I bet one of them has an explosive weapon and still died. Who needs explosives when you got channeling along with warframe that support melee and Mirage. And melee NEVEr has to reload or is there a limit ammo pool. With enough mods

 

SWORD ALONE > OGRIS, PENTA, ETC.

 

Now imagine Mirage with that whip or any quick and long melee weapon or Attica with thunderbolt(rapid fire(assault rifle) rockets) :)

I'd love to see that same volt try that against the corpus on pluto...

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YES you can fit the mutator on the rifle... but that doesn't mean it will convert your ammo because you're not picking up rifle ammo... you apparently didn't use the miter enough to know that it also still has this problem... not to mention the even worse problems that have risen by using an angstrum and anything else that uses sniper ammo together.

 

A legitimate oversight. But you're too busy ascribing outright malice to DE to bother considering otherwise.

 

That grey screen of death after long survivals? Clearly an evil DE scheme to control my playstyle and torment me sadistically.

Yeah you really don't check your prejudices at all. Not against the persuasion of others or even common sense.

 

Just like that joke that seems like a clever dig to you, but just really comes across as extremely petty.

Edited by PlayGooYa
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Yeah I bet you guys think you're all so clever.

Explosives are special-case exceptions that needed the nerf.

What you think nobody went over that in 18 pages?

Those weapons do run dry if you hold the trigger closed non-stop. And they're still not AOE weapons capable of hitting entire waves.

 

@Alkira

They work with Rifle Mutations.

 

But this is nothing surprising anymore. None of you are very well-informed or listen very well.

 

They needed a nerf. I'm pretty sure everyone agrees on that.

What I don't agree on is the magnitude of the nerf, and what the nerf did, because I believe that the magnitude was too much. 

Plus as I mentioned before, this nerf doesn't address the actual issue of Angstrum.

Edited by Arabaxus
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They needed a nerf. I'm pretty sure everyone agrees on that.

What I don't agree on is the magnitude of the nerf.

 

That's a better debate. 20 feels fair, but anything below 50 would still be keeping in the spirit of the change while possibly making those guns more viable in fixed-spawn missions. 

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I find your subjectivity even less excusable now that you tell me you're a Founder, because that means you didn't even bother to filter your prejudices in the time it took them to translate from brain-to-keyboard. Other people anticipated this. Other people knew it was beta and thought it was a shade too powerful.

 

You DO realize that you wrote "a shade too powerful" and then act like giving a weapon 20 or 30 shots per mission (because sniper ammo drops about 0.0001% of the time) is an appropriate fix for "a shade too powerful"?

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it was once upon on time in Interception, never downed, got a T4 key. Corpus sliced n diced like chop suey...

Video or it never happened... but for the most part I am still supporting those that wish for all explosives to have 50 ammo and the angstrum to have 60 so that charging it becomes a viable option again... ATM when i play with my angstrum it feels like I'm playing Halo with the Famine skull on... a plasma pistol with just 3 charge shots...

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Video or it never happened... but for the most part I am still supporting those that wish for all explosives to have 50 ammo and the angstrum to have 60 so that charging it becomes a viable option again... ATM when i play with my angstrum it feels like I'm playing Halo with the Famine skull on... a plasma pistol with just 3 charge shots...

Well, you have valkyr, yes. Get that whip and try it your self, you may want rush equipped. it's not hard at all.

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They needed a nerf. I'm pretty sure everyone agrees on that.

What I don't agree on is the magnitude of the nerf, and what the nerf did, because I believe that the magnitude was too much. 

Plus as I mentioned before, this nerf doesn't address the actual issue of Angstrum.

 

This I have no problem with, even if I'm skeptical at the amounts people are asking for.

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A Volt once on Pluto alert survival against grineer took the challenge in going in sword alone using the whip and speed(with Fury)...take a wild guess who got downed the most.

 

If you guess Volt, you are wrong, Volt Volt never got shot down once, he often slide swiped in, slice n diced all grineer, came out like it was nothing. Kept doing so over and over into the 20min survival on pluto alert. When someone needed saving, Volt came along, wiped everyone out, revived that persona and he'd do it again and again and again, he'd often use block as well, used a gamepad as well, even the heavies went down in 2 seconds all because of that whip. 

 

he never stopped, not even 15 minutes in although they got tougher. best part of all that was he never ran out of energy despite channeling all throughout the fight and spamming speed and shield wen needed. He never used his 4th attack or 1st. Always ran into a bunch of grineer especially heavies, many would think he'd be dead by now but he always survived. Whip alone, no guns, people dying around him.

 

The moral of this story is that you don't even need any explosive weapons to be badass and overpowered. I bet one of them has an explosive weapon and still died. Who needs explosives when you got channeling along with warframe that support melee and Mirage. And melee NEVEr has to reload or is there a limit ammo pool. With enough mods

 

SWORD ALONE > OGRIS, PENTA, ETC.

 

Now imagine Mirage with that whip or any quick or long melee weapon or Attica with thunderbolt(rapid fire(assault rifle) rockets) :)

 

And remember folks, guns cannot block

And also, the Volt did not have redirection or any survival mod attached.

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You DO realize that you wrote "a shade too powerful" and then act like giving a weapon 20 or 30 shots per mission (because sniper ammo drops about 0.0001% of the time) is an appropriate fix for "a shade too powerful"?

 

Yet many people have run unmodded with no problems.

Given my past experiences with perch-spammers and my own ability at conserving ammo, I disbelieve you outright.

And given the perfectly alternatives of teamwork, powers, secondaries and melee, I disbelieve you outright.

 

Also bad linguistic flourish on my part. It isn't just a shade too powerful. it was overpowered. And it's still a god gun even after Mutation.

Edited by PlayGooYa
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Video or it never happened... but for the most part I am still supporting those that wish for all explosives to have 50 ammo and the angstrum to have 60 so that charging it becomes a viable option again... ATM when i play with my angstrum it feels like I'm playing Halo with the Famine skull on... a plasma pistol with just 3 charge shots...

 

That would be acceptable. Anything over 50 would be too much though. 25 and back to rifle ammo would also be a decent change.

 

We just need to have a reasonable conversation, less rage/hyperbole/QQ 

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Well, you have valkyr, yes. Get that whip and try it your self, you may want rush equipped. it's not hard at all.

I do have a scoliac TYVM... and although melee only runs can be fun... I get bored of them cause I have more fun bench marking my OP graphics card with a volley of explosives every 5 seconds while watching the fireworks and the gibs of enemies fly everywhere than I do just whipping Corpus, grineer or infested Arse all day and night... and TBH now with the epic stamina buff you can literally just run and swing without ever running out of stamina...

Edited by R3DBelmont456
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1. sure, but arguing with dps is then not that usefull cause u can´t compare in warframe weapons with it

 

As I have stated before, to you it may not be that useful because you do not compare weapons in Warframe with DPS, but others do, and the same other people have the same right to do so. They do not have rights to say that your method of comparison is bogus, but you have no right to make the same statement either. Am I standing here telling you that because you do not compare weapons by DPS you are somehow less intelligent than me? No. I am simply acknowledging the fact other players exist, and that other schools of thinking exist.

 

2. why u should put more in then corrosive in?corrosive and blast is enaugh, or did i missunderstand u?

 

It is a general trend that after using mods such as Serration and Multishot and Heavy Caliber the next way to augment damage is through the use of elementals. Of course you can argue that instead of Hellfire and Cryo Rounds I could use Malignant Force and High Voltage. Let's again, for the sake of simplicity assume everyone has the means to beat Tower 4 or the platinum to acquire Malignant Force. Not everyone was around for Tethra mods. I am not one of those players who was around. However, that would also simply be a workaround fix, as the point of those dual stat mods is to augment elemental damage and status chance, which all the explosives, with regards to status chance, either have a paltry amount or none at all.

 

3. i don´t forgett, but then u have to think how easy it is to get the credit´s ( battelpay and or sechura) and the newest player (rank 6 and below) have no access to the launchers

 

The same thing goes both ways. Not everyone has access to Sechura or thinks credits are abysmally easy to get. Of all the people, I should logically be one of the players who makes the statement that credits are easily attainable. The alliance I am in owns Sechura. Everyone has a 9% credit tax, and as an Alliance member, I do not have the same tax. However, I prefer to remember the fact that I am not the only one who plays the game, and that there are players not as far into the game yet. 

 

Ogris and Penta if I recall correctly are mastery rank six. Angstrum is mastery rank four. As much as I love the Mastery Rank system for its uniqueness, rather than a simple "the more things you kill, the higher your arbitrary rank number" system, it is a general consensus that the Master Rank system does not show any indication of player "skill" or veteranship. A friend of mine is Mastery Rank 11, and well on his way to 12, and does not own a single Prime Warframe, does not have a 6 Forma Catalyzed Penta. I am a bit over Mastery Rank 10, less ranked than him, but I have already acquired the parts or have built every single Prime Warframe, I have a Six Forma Catalyzed Penta among other things. His mastery rank may be higher, but I have more "endgame" content, as many people like to call this specific set of gear. It goes to show, Mastery Rank proves nothing beyond the number of weapons you have played with.

 

4. 

 

All your examples are examples of things that would be logical if this game had weapon socialism such as in the Call of Duty form, where most guns are simply reskins with a few changed statistics. As much as we would like to deny, weapons in a linear progressing game are tiered. Other than Amprex and Twin Vipers, most, if not all your examples are from weapons which are clearly for early game, by both their ease of acquiring, low mastery rank requirement (yes, mastery rank requirements for Prime weapons need reworks I understand this point fully so please do not try to pull this card and derail the discussion). Machine Pistols are also an issue to be addressed. Under your argument, I could complain that Flux Rifle is overpowered because it's better than a Spectra. Or that Supra or Gorgon is overpowered because it has greater DPS than my MK-1 Braton.

 

However, Amprex's ammunition economy has been present since its inception and thus all builds that have been created since that time have had that consideration in mind already. Let's assume all players don't care about DPS like you like to assume and can easily fix their build.

 

What other downsides does the Amprex have that is now similar to launchers? Your long range use is limited. Both (now) have sketchy ammunition economy. 

 

Let's step back, and make this argument for the nerf in your favor by returning to pre-nerf status, when the 540 ammunition capacity was the main complaint.

Amprex Drawbacks Prior to U 14.2:

 

-Limited Range

-Horrid Ammunition Economy

 

Launcher Drawbacks Prior to U 14.2

-Limited Range

 

Sounds like the Launchers need a nerf right? Let's look more deeply into this comparison.

 

Amprex:

-Limited Range

-Terrible Ammunition Economy

+One of the best innate damage types, electricity

+AoE/Crowd Control capabilities

+Massive Status Chance

+Sustained single target DPS on par with some of the highest sustained DPS weapons.

 

Launchers:

-Limited Range

-Low sustained DPS on par with other "good" weapons

-Innate Blast damage type, worst for heavy units (ironically when explosives are traditionally used to engage heavy armor)

-Ogris and Angstrum: Disgusting Fire Rate and reload speed complemented by travel time

-Penta: Arced nature of grenades alongside the need for manual detonation, leading in slow fire rate.

+AoE

+Ammunition Economy

 

Now one of these things has a lot more pros than cons as you might imagine. However, we seem to neglect to mention said cons for launchers all the time. Don't believe me? Maybe you'll believe the DPS tables so many people seem to follow blindly like sheep.

 

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Same amount of Forma. Same Catalyst required. 

 

I do agree Angstrum was over the top. But the solution was not to gimp ammunition. That was not the root of the problem. The root of the problem was Angstrum, as a pistol had a base damage way too high. 425 base blast? Are you serious? That's literally stronger than a Penta in your pocket disguised as a secondary. The solution would have been to reduce said ridiculous base damage, not try to stem something else in an effort to fix the bud. It's this base damage that, even with its horrible fire rate, allowed it to achieve ridiculous DPS. When your plants are dying due to dehydration, you do not cut off leaves to reduce evaporation rate, you give it more water.

 

 

See above for the aforementioned "trade-offs" proponents of the nerf always neglect to mention when talking about launchers.

OH MY Gosh, these weapons are 4-5x stronger than my Angstrum Maybe ammo cap is understandable, BUT WHY DESTROY THE ANGSTRUM? It shoots 10 bullets!!!

 

Btw, if you add penta damages together they = 425. Same as angstrum. This wasn't an accident.  DE... Who came up with this hotfix? The handiwork is so poor that I'm starting to be more humored and less mad.  (because I <3 angstrum and spent alot on/in it but now it shoots 10 shots and the launchers which had an actual overkill ammo still have infinte mutation, while angstrum has none... This is beyond botched, its stomach curdling) I mod mods, and compile multiple mods for my own interest. I don't usually stop until a game is well beyond what it once was, or is with any selection of mods. I just don't understand how ... how this was done so poorly, so improperly, does not serve the purpose it was meant to, and is such a conflaguration towards what it was supposed to be and do. I don't really want to play until this is properly sorted out.  You've had lots of genuine and proper suggestions on the forum. Besides the single fact that more than a few hundred launcher ammo is overkill, It shouldn't have been treated as repeated MOABS, especially for new players. Coming from where I'm at now, I have no intention of having a launcher. Ever, for any reason. I bought the angstrum just because I had the materials, but thoroughly enjoyed it. Now its ... useless... and it doesn't even do 4-5x the damage shown in the pictures above (it may for vets, but not for me and certainly not for newbs)

 

Rifle mutation still takes care of Primary launchers Thus defeating this entire nerf.

Making sniper ammo the source of ammunition makes launchers.... A rare and inopportune weapon.

Angstrum fires 10 shots, has no mutation (waste of mod slot anyway) And lasts for no useable duration of time on any map

Ammo caps should have been strictly set PER weapon based on its own damage output. Unless your CODE set a weapon CLASS as "x" ammo cap, Each weapon should have its proper ammo count.

 

First and foremost, sniper ammo should not fill launchers. There's no debating that. Unless its doing BFG 50k dmg per nade (which angstrum sure isn't) Ammo cap is sufficient control.

 

Main idea supported on the forums is PRIMARY and SECONDARY ammo. No more weapon separation. Each weapon gets X ammo per pickup dependent on the weapon. Probably best solution. I actually picture this implemented btw ;)

 

Secondarily which has been seen throughout posts is to set more reasonable caps PER launcher. Most people who have suggested this I believe said around 30-50 wouldn't be game breaking 35 would seem well rounded for a primary launcher given its damage vs AMOUNT OF MOBS per regular mission. While some flamed they wanted over 100 again (which probably isn't necessary for the launchers pictured above doing absurd amounts of damage)

 

I've seen this at least a dozen times where people have mentioned to raise ammo cap on Angstrum (and some who don't care, or don't mind the low ammo cap, because they enjoy other weapons isntead so they're not concerned), which I'm sure many are readily awaiting. I'd posted elsewhere, but as a full charged shot @3 per charge, I recommended at least 60 cap minimum, because that would be 20 shots.  PERSONALLY if I was modding it, I would have lowered it to 100-110 cap. Why so high? Because its doing 4-5x less damage than that stuff I just saw and quoted above. (even with my forma/catalyst, and ranked mods which I devoted into this Lovebird gun)

 

Its hard to imagine any of this reaching you DE. But you've got hundreds of posts cresting like waves just about these new changes. It wasn't done right, and the feedback is available all over the threads. I like this game so much, and if this isn't done properly, I have no faith that the future of this game will be done well. (Many many games fail in thorough consumer-care and lose entire portions of their playerbase) I work in customer service, It is my PLEASURE to take care of and bring my customers JOY. I ENJOY making them happy, I may be the only person who brightens their day. This hotfix was brazenly rash, and its discouraging. IDK if things are always handled this way, but I'm looking forward to better care of your product/project game.

 

People either spend money on games because they have fun, or they spend money because they "feel"  it will end up better (which really blows hard, destroying the purpose of game (=fun)) Both ways WILL fill the wallet, but only one serves the purpose.  Take care of your players DE. Fix the caps, fix the ammo, I miss my now-crippled-angstrum severely(Ten shots??!), and the primary launchers lowered cap is absolutely understandable.

 

I'm tired of being tired -__- DE ... ... Don't lose your players. Current decisions direct future ones.

Edited by Edgarhighman
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That would be acceptable. Anything over 50 would be too much though. 25 and back to rifle ammo would also be a decent change.

 

We just need to have a reasonable conversation, less rage/hyperbole/QQ 

 

Rifles drop 20 rounds a magazine.
Just one drop and you're set for five reloads.

It's why they made the change in the first place.

25+rifle would be laughably ineffectual.

Edited by PlayGooYa
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Yet many people have run unmodded with no problems.

Given my past experiences with perch-spammers and my own ability at conserving ammo, I disbelieve you outright.

And given the perfectly alternatives of teamwork, powers, secondaries and melee, I disbelieve you outright.

 

Also bad linguistic flourish on my part. It isn't just a shade too powerful. it was overpowered. And it's still a god gun even after Mutation.

What do you disbelieve? That sniper ammo never drops? Go play a dozen mission against each faction, and tell me if more than half of those missions drops EVEN ONE SINGLE sniper ammo. (Hint: They won't.) Also, it's NOT still a god gun... The primaries are now decent-ish for secondary, but a Lex or rapid-fire weapon is WAY stronger. (Already was against Corrupted Vor, since explosions don't effect him)

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What do you disbelieve? That sniper ammo never drops? Go play a dozen mission against each faction, and tell me if more than half of those missions drops EVEN ONE SINGLE sniper ammo. (Hint: They won't.) Also, it's NOT still a god gun... The primaries are now decent-ish for secondary, but a Lex or rapid-fire weapon is WAY stronger. (Already was against Corrupted Vor, since explosions don't effect him)

the fact that I am forced to use my dual cestra rather than my angstrum for the sake of ammo efficienty is disheartening...

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