Ammo Nerf Protest

[taiiat]

-snip-

did i specifically point at you saying you don't use anything other than your Explosives?

 

the correct answer is no. christ, the Internet is impossible to talk on. people would even take a scientific exploration of a new technology or some non human species as a freaking personal attack.

the entire Universe isn't out to get you. it's like the Internet has a giant tinfoil hat.

 

 

how can you be unable to enjoy Explosives? they're just as they were, you just... don't use them on every single Enemy. using them even sometimes will rarely run out of Ammo, because of how effective it'll be in just the one shot.

 

there's tech demo's that allow for much more satisfying experimentation with Explosives. if that's all you're interested in for Entertaining yourself, i would legitimately urge you to experiment with such tech demo's. you'd be able to blow tons of stuff into pieces, be bombarded by high pressure sound waves continuously, and that would be extremely entertaining from the end of time, if that's critically important to you.

just like people who require the highest stats they can count to in a game to have fun, which would mean a calculator is the ultimate game for them.

 

ultimately, if it's so critically important to be able to fire Explosives in all directions without a second thought, or even a first, Ammo Restores will fit this bill just fine. you'll again be able to fire Explosives constantly without any regards to the game. 

[Psiloc1n]

haven't u gotten tired of being wrong yet tx1000?

Edited August 15, 2014 by st1llborn

[R3DBelmont456]

did i specifically point at you saying you don't use anything other than your Explosives?

 

the correct answer is no. christ, the Internet is impossible to talk on. people would even take a scientific exploration of a new technology or some non human species as a freaking personal attack.

the entire Universe isn't out to get you. it's like the Internet has a giant tinfoil hat.

 

 

how can you be unable to enjoy Explosives? they're just as they were, you just... don't use them on every single Enemy. using them even sometimes will rarely run out of Ammo, because of how effective it'll be in just the one shot.

 

there's tech demo's that allow for much more satisfying experimentation with Explosives. if that's all you're interested in for Entertaining yourself, i would legitimately urge you to experiment with such tech demo's. you'd be able to blow tons of stuff into pieces, be bombarded by high pressure sound waves continuously, and that would be extremely entertaining from the end of time, if that's critically important to you.

just like people who require the highest stats they can count to in a game to have fun, which would mean a calculator is the ultimate game for them.

 

ultimately, if it's so critically important to be able to fire Explosives in all directions without a second thought, or even a first, Ammo Restores will fit this bill just fine. you'll again be able to fire Explosives constantly without any regards to the game. 

Just like every gun in warframe, ROX had their roles to fill... In DOOM the BFG 9000 has a total of 15 shots assuming you have the backpack and 600 cells on you... and cells were scarce which made it so you had to rely on other guns like the rocket launcher or the shotgun to deal with heavier units, but in maps where you're surrounded by 1000s and I mean 1000s of enemies, the developers of those maps would be fair and they'd give you like 1000s of rounds of ammo in order to fend off the legions of Demons you had to deal with at one time... In warframe, there are certain modes that have you fight off 100s of enemies at one time and without an AoE based weapon with good ammo efficiency, you could kiss your bum, and the objective good bye! in high lvl defense when there's like 100 toxic ancients and you've got like 5 rockets left, going down to pick up ammo means instant death, therefore 20 rockets is just unnacceptable, mutation mods and ammo containers or not... this lack of ammo also makes them horribly viable to solo with because you'll prolly run out of ammo before you find your first sniper ammo pick up... also FYI this nerf just means that NOVAs instead of pentas will now officially be high demand in defenses and using a speed build without a way to kill all the mobs quickly is now no longer an optimal choice...

Edited August 15, 2014 by R3DBelmont456

[R3DBelmont456]

     Just like every gun in warframe, ROX had their roles to fill... In DOOM the BFG 9000 has a total of 15 shots assuming you have the backpack and 600 cells on you... and cells were scarce which made it so you had to rely on other guns like the rocket launcher or the shotgun to deal with heavier units, but in maps where you're surrounded by 1000s and I mean 1000s of enemies, the developers of those maps would be fair and they'd give you like 1000s of rounds of ammo in order to fend off the legions of Demons you had to deal with at one time... In warframe, there are certain modes that have you fight off 100s of enemies at one time and without an AoE based weapon with good ammo efficiency, you could kiss your bum, and the objective good bye! in high lvl defense when there's like 100 toxic ancients and you've got like 5 rockets left, going down to pick up ammo means instant death, therefore 20 rockets is just unnacceptable, mutation mods and ammo containers or not... this lack of ammo also makes them horribly viable to solo with because you'll prolly run out of ammo before you find your first sniper ammo pick up... also FYI this nerf just means that NOVAs instead of pentas will now officially be high demand in defenses and using a speed build without a way to kill all the mobs quickly is now no longer an optimal choice...

 

EDIT: whoops, accidentally double posted... delete and/or ignore this message....

Edited August 15, 2014 by R3DBelmont456

[YourBusDriver]

Just like many other players I want a challenging game.

 

I don't want weapons to be rendered useless.

 

In my opinion, this nerf was done poorly - and DE may have done it because they were sick, and tired hearing about how OP the launchers are. 

 

Really though, this game is a work in progress. Players are always going to complain about nerfs (and some buffs too). My point is, the Penta is less than a shadow of its former self... it doesn't even preform anywhere near the original.

 

I don't care that this may have been a decision for monetary purposes, and/or for whiner-service. There are still many OP niches in the game, and some former ones have been part of DE's steady elimination of said outlets. 

 

I still think that this nerf is overdoing it. Since when did any weapon class receive such a drastic ammo reduction? Shouldn't DE be more focused on making other weapons more effective? Perhaps the Penta, and other launchers were OP, but did they really need to wiped off the map? Personally, I'm not going to use my Penta anymore - despite having formed it twice. I'd rather use melee, or other crit based primaries which are even more effective, and OP. The launchers really only diversified my play style, and ultimately this nerf is simply limiting my (and other people’s) gaming experience - even if only by a little. 

[Arabaxus]

Change always divides the fan base, and the rule of thumb is, when you divide your fan base, one half will stay and the other will either adopt or leave, What happens when you keep dividing your fanbase, then you dwindle your community down until you have no more players left, that's where I see this game is Headed...

 

And this is precisely why every time I suggest a balance, such as when I suggest balancing the Lex Prime and Marelok, that we do not touch the Marelok and buff the Lex Prime. 

Then people always suggest to me that the issue is the Marelok so we should nerf it.

 

I realize that Marelok is the issue. But as history as proven, buffs generally do one of two things to a player, they are happy, or indifferent, with a few unhappy folk. Meanwhile, nerfs switch out the indifferent population ratio with the unhappy one, which is why the nerf-hammer should be used much more conservatively, and the buff hammer can be applied more liberally.

 

 

 

Just like many other players I want a challenging game.

 

 

I don't want weapons to be rendered useless.

 

 

In my opinion, this nerf was done poorly - and DE may have done it because they were sick, and tired hearing about how OP the launchers are. 

 

 

Really though, this game is a work in progress. Players are always going to complain about nerfs (and some buffs too). My point is, the Penta is less than a shadow of its former self... it doesn't even preform anywhere near the original.

 

 

I don't care that this may have been a decision for monetary purposes, and/or for whiner-service. There are still many OP niches in the game, and some former ones have been part of DE's steady elimination of said outlets. 

 

 

I still think that this nerf is overdoing it. Since when did any weapon class receive such a drastic ammo reduction? Shouldn't DE be more focused on making other weapons more effective? Perhaps the Penta, and other launchers were OP, but did they really need to wiped off the map? Personally, I'm not going to use my Penta anymore - despite having formed it twice. I'd rather use melee, or other crit based primaries which are even more effective, and OP. The launchers really only diversified my play style, and ultimately this nerf is simply limiting my (and other people’s) gaming experience - even if only by a little. 

 

 

5 Forma Angstrum and 6 Forma Penta shelved indefinitely unless Digital Extremes is nice enough to grant my request to return my time and materials, or they make a reasonable change to the current launchers.

 

Meanwhile I'll work on my Amprex, since it does the same AoE effect, except with greater DPS, greater status, greater crits, better elementals, all at the cost of ammunition, unlike the launchers, which now currently trade off their DPS, status, crits, and ammunition for AoE.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Arabaxus

[SoulEchelon]

^

And don't you think because of this they could have been MUCH more subtle with it, like test a base unmodded rocket launcher in all situations and see wether 20 rounds was efficient or it was just Tying your hands to the point of having it equipped would be the equivalent of doing a secondary or melee only run through the mission...

 

Did you know DE actually does have in house testers that...probably did exactly that? And more and more players are concurring with the result.

 

Also, they alerted everyone to the change a week before it was implemented. This wasn't something abrupt.

 

And I'm glad they weren't subtle with it. Subtlety = trying to quietly get away with something without alerting the masses. No, they stood up and came right out with it. They got feedback, released it, and are open to more feedback for tweaking it.

[Currystador]

Here is how you fix it:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/290428-explosive-ammo-%E2%99%AA%E2%99%AB%E2%99%AA-the-perfect-fix-%E2%99%AA%E2%99%AB%E2%99%AA/

dude stop self promoting.. 

[YourBusDriver]

Seeing as so many people want this nerf (and probably wanted the weapon(s) removed anyhow) - I am no longer going to argue against it. Honestly I'm going to get along just fine without the weapons in this list. There are plenty other OP strategies to grasp hold of, and as the game evolves so must the player - nothing lasts for ever (except spin-to-wins).

 

Of course, what happens when your favorite weapon, or play-style gets nerfed? I'm not insinuating any of my favorite weapons are on the list - personally it's the Boltor, but everyone knows how that turned out... Just try to understand the angst people have, please? 

Edited August 15, 2014 by YourBusDriver

[OuTlAwTACO229]

Go ahead and keep complaining. Its not gonna fix anything. And now you wanna start a protest where people don't play xD okay you do that. Ill be over here enjoying the game and using DIFFERENT weapons. Not playing a game isn't gonna do anything. Thousands of players don't play the game everyday. I was never really a fan of launchers in the first place. Its too easy just doing click... click... click... click.. click.. Reload... click.. click... That takes no skill. Things get boring quite fast. Do something different now. 

[Arabaxus]

Seeing as so many people want this nerf (and probably wanted the weapon(s) removed anyhow) - I am no longer going to argue against it. Honestly I'm going to get along just fine without the weapons in this list. There are plenty other OP strategies to grasp hold of, and as the game evolves so must the player - nothing lasts for ever (except spin-to-wins).

 

Of course, what happens when your favorite weapon, or play-style gets nerfed? I'm no insinuating any of my favorite weapons are on the list - personally its the Boltor, but everyone knows how that turned out... Just try to understand the angst people have, please? 

 

See what I will never understand is why Boltor Prime is always called OP when a Paris or Latron Prime, of course, complimented with the knowledge and decency to aim for the head, is clearly superior in ammo economy, DPS, range, and accuracy.

 

And yes to your final point, I find that many of the people "happy" with the nerfs are the ones who are telling you to either "Deal with it and stick the ammo mutation as a band-aid mod" with no regard for people's prior builds or the ones that are stating "ha now you can't just stand up on a perch like a n00b" with no respect for a play style that people enjoyed and is a legitimate play style, which they and no one else had any right to try to discredit through selfish desires.

 

Edit: The poster above me is a perfect example of my final point. Heavily biased, opinionated statements with regards to what is "fun" and what "isn't fun", or what is "too easy".

Edited August 15, 2014 by Arabaxus

[R3DBelmont456]

Did you know DE actually does have in house testers that...probably did exactly that? And more and more players are concurring with the result.

 

Also, they alerted everyone to the change a week before it was implemented. This wasn't something abrupt.

 

And I'm glad they weren't subtle with it. Subtlety = trying to quietly get away with something without alerting the masses. No, they stood up and came right out with it. They got feedback, released it, and are open to more feedback for tweaking it.

Yeah, I was there when they were announcing the nerfs and for the most part people were outraged at explosive weps being nerfed to 20 shots, the angstrum was originally supposed to only have 21 total rox but they repented and raised it to 30 which is still TOO minuscule of an amount, for the most part people back then and people arguing against it now were ok with it either having 72 rounds like all sniper weapons did, or having 50 with it still using rifle ammo, As it is now it's been triple nerfed, even if DE still doesn't realize that modding your Rocket launcher for efficienty is only gonna Kill the DPS on it, making it useless overall if it's AoE isn't doing it's job...

[Arabaxus]

Yeah, I was there when they were announcing the nerfs and for the most part people were outraged at explosive weps being nerfed to 20 shots, the angstrum was originally supposed to only have 21 total rox but they repented and raised it to 30 which is still TOO minuscule of an amount, for the most part people back then and people arguing against it now were ok with it either having 72 rounds like all sniper weapons did, or having 50 with it still using rifle ammo, As it is now it's been triple nerfed, even if DE still doesn't realize that modding your Rocket launcher for efficienty is only gonna Kill the DPS on it, making it useless overall if it's AoE isn't doing it's job...

 

As if the DPS for a six Forma weapon wasn't already paltry enough.

 

A Penta with maximum mods, leveled effectively to level 30 seven times, god forbid it have barely over 10.5k DPS just because AoE.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Arabaxus

[R3DBelmont456]

As if the DPS for a six Forma weapon wasn't already paltry enough.

yeah, I'd hate to 6 forma my bows, snipers and machine guns and make them all broken, God forbid...

[YourBusDriver]

-snip-

 

I really can't say it any more times. 

 

Yes people overreacted, but then again... what do people not overreact to... penguins?

 

There are going to be emotionally charged statements, and just because you're veteran doesn't give you the right to say, "Suck it up nubs. L3rn 2 play!" That is the opposite of what video games attempt the realize. There is skill, but at some point games are meant to be virtual realities.  

 

 

launcher users be butthurt

L2play a different weapon and stop complaining

 

 

Regardless, I really do think this nerf is catered for upcoming PVP additions. I think I made a comment some time ago about this... (first comment) 

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/271490-dark-sector-conflicts-and-you/

Edited August 15, 2014 by YourBusDriver

[R3DBelmont456]

I hope this thread goes Viral before the end of this month so DE can see just how bad they have divided their community thanks to trashing Heavy weapons...

[YourBusDriver]

I hope this thread goes Viral before the end of this month so DE can see just how bad they have divided their community thanks to trashing Heavy weapons...

 

Well, after Trinity I think some people on the anti-nerf side are just vagabonds looking for a fight to pick.

 

EDIT: I really don't see any use in arguing this anymore because the nerf hammer has driven the final nail into the heavy weapons' casket, lol. 

Edited August 15, 2014 by YourBusDriver

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Well, after Trinity I think some people on the anti-nerf side are just vagabonds looking for a fight to pick.

Were people saying that was the death knell for Warframe too?  Considering Trinity is still the best frame in the game, it shows you how reliable these alarmist style posts really are.

[SoulEchelon]

I hope this thread goes Viral before the end of this month so DE can see just how bad they have divided their community thanks to trashing Heavy weapons...

 

Too bad they aren't trashed and the community isn't "divided". You still have -completely- ignored everyone else's statements but your own. I really even wonder if you've actually went ingame and tested out the changes. Extensively. As in, you didn't just go to some random Defense and spammed all your ammo out before screaming how horrible life is.

[R3DBelmont456]

Were people saying that was the death knell for Warframe too?  Considering Trinity is still the best frame in the game, it shows you how reliable these alarmist style posts really are.

thing is, there's an alternative to trinity called valkyr... cause she also has an immortal build, which is why she's raised in popularity over trinity now... but this nerf has affected ALL explosives... meaning no matter what flavor of BOOM you liked, you're screwed because they're now ALL less than optimal to use... Had they nerfed all frames that were capable of immortal builds, I can almost guarantee you that the explosion would have been far FAR greater, I'd say it would have been the difference between cleaning up after 1 atomic bomb, and cleaning up after 3 nuclear ones...

[R3DBelmont456]

Too bad they aren't trashed and the community isn't "divided". You still have -completely- ignored everyone else's statements but your own. I really even wonder if you've actually went ingame and tested out the changes. Extensively. As in, you didn't just go to some random Defense and spammed all your ammo out before screaming how horrible life is.

Oh I tried the angstrum on both a defense mission and a couple of Orokin Derelict missions... I can say without a doubt that I had absolutely no reason what so ever to charge my angstrum or to even fire it at all, for the most part I just ended up falling back on my dragon nikana constantly... IF I wanna do a melee only run of missions, then bloody hell I can just unequip the weapons, what's the point of even using it now that it's so impractical it's practically useless... Please stop being delusional and see all the hate posts all over the forums and know that this HAS indeed done some serious dmg....

Edited August 15, 2014 by R3DBelmont456

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

thing is, there's an alternative to trinity called valkyr... cause she also has an immortal build, which is why she's raised in popularity over trinity now...

Trinity is still the best frame in the game, despite alarmists saying her nerf would spell the end of the game. Alarmist posts are unreliable.

[SoulEchelon]

thing is, there's an alternative to trinity called valkyr...

 

[YourBusDriver]

thing is, there's an alternative to trinity called valkyr... cause she also has an immortal build, which is why she's raised in popularity over trinity now... but this nerf has affected ALL explosives... meaning no matter what flavor of BOOM you liked, you're screwed because they're now ALL less than optimal to use... Had they nerfed all frames that were capable of immortal builds, I can almost guarantee you that the explosion would have been far FAR greater, I'd say it would have been the difference between cleaning up after 1 atomic bomb, and cleaning up after 3 nuclear ones...

 

Not disagreeing/agreeing here, but atomic, and nuclear are synonymous...

 

Of course, DE may have a remediation plan for the launchers... hopefully. I'd really hate to see an entire weapon class get wiped out like this. 

Edited August 15, 2014 by YourBusDriver

[R3DBelmont456]

Not disagreeing/agreeing here, but atomic, and nuclear are synonymous...

 

Of course, DE may have a remediation plan for the launchers... hopefully. I'd really hate to see an entire weapon class get wiped out like this. 

I wouldn't say they are... one has a larger blast radius than the other, and is more compact... normally nuclear missles are carried on Jets whereas atomic bombs required them to be carried on large Aircraft Carriers... AKA bombers...