Ammo Nerf Protest

[SoulEchelon]

Yadyadayada

 

Sorry, when you lose my desire to answer you, you lose it completely. Go about your business - our conversation is done.

 

 

I used play super monday night combat smnc two years ago they did a level called (Blitz) its was just like defence like in Warframe 

they give us all free Blitz rocket launchers with a very Big ammo pool that got all players to levels 50 60 That Was fun.

 

This is not fun 

 

This is also not Super Monday Night Combat.

[R3DBelmont456]

Sorry, when you lose my desire to answer you, you lose it completely. Go about your business - our conversation is done.

 

 

 

This is also not Super Monday Night Combat.

Then don't bro, no one's making you do it so why you still editing my stuff?...

Edited August 15, 2014 by R3DBelmont456

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

I don't know why people are whining anyway . . .

 

http://youtu.be/bvKuWPnrZck

[gunsmoke77]

Sorry, when you lose my desire to answer you, you lose it completely. Go about your business - our conversation is done.

 

 

 

This is also not Super Monday Night Combat.

This is the same problem in all games zero ammo just like now in warframe smnc pulled in thousand,s players by doing this for the fans of the game at the time..........

 

give the players some think in game they come by the thousand,s

Takeaway ammo they just rage quit the game and move on.

Edited August 15, 2014 by gunsmoke77

[R3DBelmont456]

This is the same problem in all games zero ammo just like now in warframe smnc pulled in thousand,s players by doing this for the fans of the game at the time..........

 

give the players some think in game they come by the thousand,s

Takeaway ammo they just rage quit the game and move on.

And this makes sense because people AT TIMES like to just break the norm and just have fun for once... not be tied down by restriction after meaningless restriction...

[gunsmoke77]

And this makes sense because people AT TIMES like to just break the norm and just have fun for once... not be tied down by restriction after meaningless restriction...

Yes hit the hail on the head give gamers hope they stay takeaway from them time they put in game is a insult to them,

[R3DBelmont456]

Actually I never went below 450 in high lvl runs but that still left me with using 90 rockets in Dangerous situations before going down from my defense perch and collecting ammo... 20 IS TOO extreme of a nerf and everyone who's invested time and money on leveling these Guns are the ones really suffering for this.

Edited August 15, 2014 by (PS4)IIIDevoidIII
Cleaned

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

going down from my defense perch

And therein lies your problem.  DE clearly does not want the infested to be trivial rocket bait for easy grinding.  They want them to be there for actual gameplay.

[R3DBelmont456]

And therein lies your problem.  DE clearly does not want the infested to be trivial rocket bait for easy grinding.  They want them to be there for actual gameplay.

You'll be perching yourself on high ground once all them toxic ancients start showing up wether you use a BOW, Sniper, Machine gun and the like as it will just spell instant death... your point is Moot, in fact I dare you to just take a sword at all the ancients when they surround you and see how fast you drop...

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

You'll be perching yourself on high ground once all them toxic ancients start showing up wether you use a BOW, Sniper, Machine gun and the like as it will just spell instant death... your point is Moot, in fact I dare you to just take a sword at all the ancients when they surround you and see how fast you drop...

Don't try to derail this.  The point is, they don't want players perching and they have taken multiple steps to facilitate this change in mentality.

[Kaboinglefop]

You'll be perching yourself on high ground once all them toxic ancients start showing up wether you use a BOW, Sniper, Machine gun and the like as it will just spell instant death... your point is Moot, in fact I dare you to just take a sword at all the ancients when they surround you and see how fast you drop...

I take my sword up against them all the time and rock face.

[vaugahn]

You'll be perching yourself on high ground once all them toxic ancients start showing up wether you use a BOW, Sniper, Machine gun and the like as it will just spell instant death... your point is Moot, in fact I dare you to just take a sword at all the ancients when they surround you and see how fast you drop...

 

Toxin only procs on you when you touch them. Even in a horde it's very easy to stay safe by using the CC-resist you get from spin attacks and dodge rolls. 

 

The problem with launchers is that they made games too easy; you never had to come down, you could stay on a perch the whole game and never even take a point of damage. Now there's some risk involved in taking a launcher, because if you don't place your attacks well you can run out of ammo and be overwhelmed. I fully expect them to double the amount of available ammo, but even then your days of camping without ever having to touch the ground are over.

[R3DBelmont456]

Don't try to derail this.  The point is, they don't want players perching and they have taken multiple steps to facilitate this change in mentality.

That's not true, the recent buffing of infested and ancients being able to buff other infested further, AND the recent nerf of all explosives proves this point... and FYI, everyone both supporting the buff but hinting that they wish that all rocket launcher ammo be doubled from what it currently has only tells me that Deep down everyone hates this Ludicrous nerf...

Edited August 15, 2014 by R3DBelmont456

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

That's not true, the recent buffing of infested and ancients being able to buff other infested further, AND the recent nerf of all explosives proves this point... and FYI, everyone both supporting the buff but hinting that they wish that all rocket launcher ammo be doubled from what it currently has only tells me that Deep down everyone hates this Ludicrous nerf...

Nope, the nerf was very sorely needed.  I just think that it needs slightly fine tuned. 

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

Thread cleaned a little. Keep things civil. I'll be watching from now on.

[R3DBelmont456]

Nope, the nerf was very sorely needed.  I just think that it needs slightly fine tuned. 

That sir is a terrible understatement... needs a Major Tweak if you ask me.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

That sir is a terrible understatement... needs a Major Tweak if you ask me.

IMO, their ammo just needs doubled.  Penta would have 40 ammo instead of 20. That is a slight tweak.  It should never be like it was before with hundreds of ammo capacity.

[R3DBelmont456]

IMO, their ammo just needs doubled.  Penta would have 40 ammo instead of 20. That is a slight tweak.  It should never be like it was before with hundreds of ammo capacity.

Yes I agree that making the ammo 40 (though tbh I'd prefer 5/45) on the primary launchers and 60 on the angstrum would make them viable again... it's not like the majority of us is asking for 540 rounds back... We're all just asking for all explosive weapons to not be a paperweight... 

Edited August 15, 2014 by R3DBelmont456

[gell]

I Learned2Play the same weapon and stopped complaining. And when I want to go back to pre-ammo nerf, I put in ammo mutation and still destroy everything with extreme ease, just like old times. Still love the penta. Other weapons (like the angstrum or torid) might need a bit more of a tweak. Penta is fine now. I'd say 25 ammo could also work, but no more than 30 or it means the nerf is basically reverted. Unless they also nerf ammo pick up values, I don't see an issue here.

OP, it's not about laying down and taking DE's beating (which it isn't anyway). It's about what DE intended with this change, and I believe it to be the right call (they should balance ammo in the game in general, but launchers were the most egregious offenders). To offset the insane damage launchers do, we sometimes have to go pick up ammo now. Launchers didn't have any downsides before (they were highest burst but also highest sustained dps by far, paling in comparison only to something like a Soma hitting a crit spot after 10 seconds). Reload time is a bit long on some launchers, although Penta was tolerable (this is subjective though, but mods exist for that very reason, and in customizable degrees).

 

The line I will draw will be when the launchers stop being what they are: extremely powerful burst damage weapons. As long as they are viable in most fights, DE hasn't crossed that line yet. On the other hand, Torid still hasn't recovered from its super nerf when Damage 2.0 came around.

 

If you're going to spend your energy complaining about weapons sucking, look to the bigger offenders like shotguns being outclassed by most rifles, or sniper rifles having quite a few situations they not only don't excel at, but are unusable in. This is just the flavor of the week as far as complaints are concerned, but it will pass. And for those who can't get past it, I'm sorry you can't keep enjoying the Penta that is effectively almost identical to what it was before.

Edited August 15, 2014 by (PS4)IIIDevoidIII
Cleaning

[gell]

Yes I agree that making the ammo 40 (though tbh I'd prefer 5/45) on the primary launchers and 60 on the angstrum would make them viable again... it's not like the majority of us is asking for 540 rounds back... We're all just asking for all explosive weapons to not be a paperweight... 

 

No, you're asking for ammo to never be a thought. With 40 ammo, you're likely to be able to use the weapon without the slightest concern about ammo at all, so effectively it will be as if it was never nerfed. There is no difference between 40 and 540 ammo on the penta; you never need to go get ammo when it will just refill by walking near anything. At 20 (or 25, that would be ok), limited ammo makes you consider your shots a bit more, if even just a bit.

[R3DBelmont456]

No, you're asking for ammo to never be a thought. With 40 ammo, you're likely to be able to use the weapon without the slightest concern about ammo at all, so effectively it will be as if it was never nerfed. There is no difference between 40 and 540 ammo on the penta; you never need to go get ammo when it will just refill by walking near anything. At 20 (or 25, that would be ok), limited ammo makes you consider your shots a bit more, if even just a bit.

By the time you consider your shot you're already dead... also, even if it only has 2 rockets total like any other rocket launcher in today's shooters... equipping a mutator mod would still make it infinite regardless... The fact that it not only has 20 rounds but uses sniper ammo to boot is problematic, no matter what anyone says in it's defense, the lack of ammo forces you to play so conservatively that you may as well not use it at all... that's not fun, it's a headache... and if only a minuscule of people actually consider it fun, then why should it not be tweaked to better suit everyone's needs. Also you're forgetting an important detail.... by detemining it's total ammo based on how powerful it is with maximum Catalyst/forma/dmg build rather than a base unmodded gun, then all you're doing is handicapping those players that need to lvl it to optimal settings before they can start seeing results, I can now say without a doubt that All launchers are mastery fodder and are not worth investing the now more ridiculous time needed to upgrade them...

[vaugahn]

By the time you consider your shot you're already dead... also, even if it only has 2 rockets total like any other rocket launcher in today's shooters... equipping a mutator mod would still make it infinite regardless... The fact that it not only has 20 rounds but uses sniper ammo to boot is problematic, no matter what anyone says in it's defense, the lack of ammo forces you to play so conservatively that you may as well not use it at all... that's not fun, it's a headache... and if only a minuscule of people actually consider it fun, then why should it not be tweaked to better suit everyone's needs. Also you're forgetting an important detail.... by detemining it's total ammo based on how powerful it is with maximum Catalyst/forma/dmg build rather than a base unmodded gun, then all you're doing is handicapping those players that need to lvl it to optimal settings before they can start seeing results, I can now say without a doubt that All launchers are mastery fodder and are not worth investing the now more ridiculous time needed to upgrade them...

 

Are you kidding me? 20k damage in a huge AoE is now mastery fodder because you can't spam it endlessly? Maybe if you play only capture and exterminate, but nerf or no they're still the go-to weapon for defense and survival. Also, prove to me that only a minuscule amount of people like the ammo changes. I'm not seeing it.

[R3DBelmont456]

Are you kidding me? 20k damage in a huge AoE is now mastery fodder because you can't spam it endlessly? Maybe if you play only capture and exterminate, but nerf or no they're still the go-to weapon for defense and survival. Also, prove to me that only a minuscule amount of people like the ammo changes. I'm not seeing it.

that's cause you're not looking hard enough... and try getting a base unmodded ogris or penta with no forma or catalyst up to par with just 20 shots... you'll burn through your team ammo reserves faster than a grandpa Chewing Tabacco... and if you want proof, then look at this, an uforma'd untattered ogris with 20 rounds and add firestorm to it for it's maximum AoE: 

http://warframe-builder.com/Primary_Weapons/Builder/Ogris

 

And after that do you still wanna tell me that the ogris deserved to be dropped down all the way to 20 shots? not even making it stay as rifle ammo pick ups... it's just insane.

Edited August 15, 2014 by R3DBelmont456

[vaugahn]

that's cause you're not looking hard enough... and try getting a base unmodded ogris or penta with no forma or catalyst up to par with just 20 shots... you'll burn through your team ammo reserves faster than a grandpa Chewing Tabacco...

 

You could say the same for pretty much any unmodded weapon. Excluding a few high-damage outliers, unranked weapons aren't very effective. That's an incentive for you to rank them up or mod them. You aren't supposed to be clearing whole waves away with one.

 

The insane levels of hyperbole and QQ are hurting your position more than I or anyone else ever could. Let's all just talk about this like adults, and maybe then we'll get somewhere.

[R3DBelmont456]

You could say the same for pretty much any unmodded weapon. Excluding a few high-damage outliers, unranked weapons aren't very effective. That's an incentive for you to rank them up or mod them. You aren't supposed to be clearing whole waves away with one.

 

The insane levels of hyperbole and QQ are hurting your position more than I or anyone else ever could. Let's all just talk about this like adults, and maybe then we'll get somewhere.

But I am talking about it like an adult... and I'm saying this is more bad for those who enjoyed using rocket launchers than it is for people who don't really care... This bad for those who put a lot of work in them, forma'ing, tatering and re leveling it up to perfection, but it's FAR worse for people who are now getting it and have to level it up with it's 20 ammo reserve, honestly this is why I say it's mastery fodder because even if you happen to get it up to par and equip all the much needed dmg mods on it, you're probably gonna be using it now 4% of the time when leveling it and are instead gonna be stuck using your secondary or melee weapon to lvl it, is that really what warframe has come down to?... Leveling your favorite guns not by using them, but by using another gun to get them up to speed so you can use them the way they were meant to be used... The truth is I never got to make the penta because I was gonna focus on building the ogris first since I painted it to look just like the BFG 9000... but thanks to the nerf happening now, not only am I never gonna touch the ogris again, but I'm not even gonna bother building the penta or even looking at it, I mean what's the point now?...

Edited August 15, 2014 by R3DBelmont456