Pvp Balance Feedback

[Cleesus]

Hello, the purpose of this thread is to collect feedback and  info on where the frames/weapons stand as of the current patch and balance changes. 

 

I want to collect the info so the devs know where each frame and weapon stands and what needs the most work, and what needs changes in general after each balance pass.

 

BTW this is just in regard to how the weapons and frames perform in PVP,  I plan to do this every other balance patch if the response if good enough.

 

This will go in a similar vein to PsySnakes thread some of us helped him put together, which means this will be a community effort. (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/270271-dark-sectors-pvp-early-feedback-updated-26072014/ for reference)

 

Even if you have only played one or two matches and you feel like you don’t know enough to contribute, you opinion is still valuable because I need opinions from newer and older players alike!

 

Trolling/Derialing/Off topic posts will be dealt with according to the code of conduct so please read over it: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/286054-psa-warning-points-20-code-of-conduct/

 

Please list the frames in the order of those needing the most help first and describe what abilities/stats you feel needs to be looked at. 

Example:

1. Banshee

 Banshees soundquake is currently unusable due to the slow casting times/low damage/ and lack of damage migration while the skill is active. 

1. Ash

Ashs Blade storm is unbalanced because of the insane bleed procs/invurnability/able to cast from far away/no way to skillfully block/dodge the damage. The skill still tracks you if you move outside of its initial radius if you are marked.

Etc

 

Those are just examples I do not believe Banshee is actually the biggest problem out there lol.

 

After you have finished that, list the weapons you have used or have had used against you. List with a quick note on why you may believe its unbalanced.

 

Examples:

 

What not to do 

 

1.!!!!!1!1! Boltor Prime too op PLOX nerf nao

 

Proper way

1. Boltor Prime – Needs (blank) damage tuned down/ Has the ability to snipe better than Snipers. One con is lack of ammo.

You don’t have to write more than a sentence or two the important thing is to constructively make you point on the gears problem areas.  

 

While the primary purpose of the thread is for each person to post their opinions and feedback, feel free to discuss only if you do so in a respectful and constructive manner. Also it is to keep the devs updated on how the recent balance changes are working in pvp and what still needs more work done!

 

Any help is appreciated

Edited August 18, 2014 by theclinton
updated

[Deidaku]

Yay i'm first

 

Damage , Mod leveling in PVP , and enemies 

: they should climb  up faster.

 

Because most of the Time I enter a PVp match and the enemies are already immune to my attacks!

You do like litterraly no damage and serve as Melee weapon fodder for the enemy.

 

 

The Ai bots are too spongey and take ages to kill if you entered the match at about 50 completion.

 

Unless you have explosives you litterally can't kill enough enemies to be efficient in any ways.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Deidaku

[Hueminator]

DS Conflict

 

Nekros

 

I don't think his Terrify works on players and can his Desecrate spawn health orbs from players' corpse?  As of right now I only actively use his #1 Soul Punch on players.

 

Status Effect on Players

 

Electricity proc pretty much does not affect players from what I observed, should it temporary make players unable to roll or block?

 

Slide attack

 

Most of the dual sword grip have very high slide attack damage (like 180-300).  PVP can be over in 1 or 2 slide attack. I think they should be somewhat reduce (by 40%?)

 

Stun locking

 

I think these approaches can help reduce stun locking:

 

-Quick attack will have lower chance to stagger players

-Chance of getting stagger lower when taking damage from the front (keep stagger the same if you are attacked from the back)

-Diminishing stagger chance of normal combo (E E E), but increasing stagger chance of special combo

 

Consumable

 

I think that adding consumable with a cooldown (30s) would make game play more dynamic, since "potting" is a skill.  

Edited August 14, 2014 by Hueminator

[RawGritz]

Loki (and Prime) - 

 

I really feel Radial Disarm should disarm ballistics from Tenno for a limited time. Maybe they are disarmed until they respawn or maybe their weapons are transported to the player spawn...where you know, players spawn in...forcing them to use melee or retreat to retrieve their disarmed ballistic weapons.

 

This would give it more utility in PVP and also push for more awesome melee battles.

 

It would be nice if the Decoy was fully textured to look like a real player as well for more utility in PVP.

 

^^UPDATED for clarity!

Edited August 14, 2014 by RawGritz

[Frostosti]

i only have one small problem;

If i join the game halfway, when enemies are high level already and im still level 1.

[Deidaku]

Other issue with PVP

 

Maps.

 

They should be less linear and more arena -ish and parkour friendly.

 

Right now it feels like we're in  a MOBA

[RawGritz]

i only have one small problem;

If i join the game halfway, when enemies are high level already and im still level 1.

you spawn in at the level of the lowest ranked Tenno. 

[RobWasHere]

Dragon nikana kills any player by one hit when channeled...unmodded.

[Cleesus]

Okay the feedback you are giving is good but for right now im looking more for warframe/weapon balance feedback and less general pvp feedback. Spectre feedback is fine too since many powers work differently on players and spectres.

 

Feedback on things like climb speed, stun locking, roll speed etc is fine too.

[Auramaru]

Two-handed melee weapon stun-locking: the damage for dual-melee-weapons in spin attacks is a lot to begin with... And to add to it, you can stun-lock other players by repetitively spinning on top of them. Unfortunately, if you were to nerf the stun-lock, melee would be insignificant unless the damage was buffed... As it still takes a while to spin slash someone if they are aware that you are trying to do so... It might be a good idea to remove stunlocks and buff the damage hugely?

Valkyr (IN CONCLAVE): if a Valkyr builds mods correctly, she can have 6k or more effective health than any player running a maximized-tank build on any other warframe. In dark sector PvP, this isn't a problem because she needs that health to use her ability kit... But in conclaves - where abilities are seldom used due to limited energy - this sort of tankiness has no place.

That's all I've got for now (posted via smartphone, so mind the autocorrect).

Edited August 14, 2014 by Auramau

[Cleesus]

Two-handed melee weapon stun-locking: the damage for dual-melee-weapons in spin attacks is a lot to begin with... And to add to it, you can stun-lock other players by repetitively spinning on top of them. Unfortunately, if you were to nerf the stun-lock, melee would be insignificant unless the damage was buffed... As it still takes a while to spin slash someone if they are aware that you are trying to do so... It might be a good idea to remove stunlocks and buff the damage hugely?

Valkyr (IN CONCLAVE): if a Valkyr builds mods correctly, she can have 6k or more effective health than any player running a maximized-tank build on any other warframe. In dark sector PvP, this isn't a problem because she needs that health to use her ability kit... But in conclaves - where abilities are seldom used due to limited energy - this sort of tankiness has no place.

That's all I've got for now (posted via smartphone, so mind the autocorrect).

Good point about removing the stunlook, melee probably would need better range as well as more damage if they removved it. Or at least a way to effectively block/ get out of the stunlock if they dont.

 

Feel free to post more whenver you have the time

[Rakshal]

Conclave Feedback

1. Damage: Damage right now is too low, it makes tanky frames like Valkyr and Ash much more viable than say Excalibur. It also doesn't reward skillful weapons like the Vectis, Grinlok, and in some cases the Sybaris. I think DE should revert the damage numbers back to the way they were.

2. Melee Stagger: Right now you can stagger someone when you melee them which leads to stun locking players in melee. Also you can slide attack someone and then empty a magazine into them when they get staggered. I hate using it on people and I hate it when it happens to me.

3. Parkour: It is kinda hard to parkour after the slingshot nerf. Adding that back would be awesome.

4. Accessibility to new players: Right now, conclave is only for endgame players. I think a way to make it more accessible to new players is to add a modding section for PvP where you have access to all of the mods at max rank. This would also make it possible to remove conclave restrictions to maps. I'm sure some people are getting bored of Europa.

5. Quick Thinking and Rage: This combo is really powerful and broken. I think that Rage shouldn't give so much energy and Quick Thinking should have its efficiency reduced.

Dark Sector Conflict Feedback

1. Same.

2. Same.

3. Same.

4. Same.

5. Same.

6. Valkyr's Hysteria: It isn't as bad now but reducing the duration wasn't enough. I think DE should remove her invulnerability and give her damage reduction that is greater than Warcry instead.

7. Ash's Blade Storm: There just needs to be a counter to this like blocking or something.

8. Vauban's Traps: There is no way to get past them. I think they should be able to be destroyed.

9. Leveling: Some people may like it but I hate it. I think DE should just remove it.

10. Loki's Decoy: This thing actually needs a buff. It should function like the hologram in Halo Reach where you cast it and it walks in a strait line and is identical to the player.

11. Ash's Shurukin: This thing does to much damage for how little skill it takes. You should have to aim with it and it have travel time.

12. Map Design: The map design doesn't favor mobility over tactfulness. I think the maps should be more vertical and have ways to easily chain wall runs.

 

13. Health bar for attacking rail: The health bar for the attacker's rail should return. It makes it so rails end faster and it gives a better chance for the defenders.

 

14. Tickets or Timer:  I feel that there should be a timer for the attackers rather than tickets so you can go into a game with randoms and still have a chance of winning.

 

Will probably put more when I think of more.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Rakshal

[RawGritz]

Hmmm. I really love the leveling. It's very unique and exhilarating when you get your mods online. It's a micro-goal that I absolutely love. It also challenges experienced players to switch up their builds and play styles. 

 

Absolutely love the leveling. Now...does it need balancing? Probably. Should there be more micro-objectives and mini-goals that work toward leveling? Sure. Should reviving downed players contribute a portion to leveling? I think so.

 

Still love it though...

Edited August 14, 2014 by RawGritz

[Cleesus]

Oh yeah QT + Rage+ Reflex is absolutely broken I agree, I also like the leveling Raw.

[RawGritz]

Oh yeah QT + Rage+ Reflex is absolutely broken I agree, I also like the leveling Raw.

Did I mention I love the leveling enough for ya. LOL

 

What about that Loki love? Can Radial Disarm, you know, actually disarm Tenno? I would even be happy with it depleting their energy pool and functioning like Ancient Disrupter.

 

;P

[Cleesus]

Did I mention I love the leveling enough for ya. LOL

 

What about that Loki love? Can Radial Disarm, you know, actually disarm Tenno? I would even be happy with it depleting their energy pool and functioning like Ancient Disrupter.

 

;P

Thats up to the devs but my guess is I cant see them letting players disarm other players. Would be pretty much the only power worth using if that happened.

[RawGritz]

Thats up to the devs but my guess is I cant see them letting players disarm other players. Would be pretty much the only power worth using if that happened.

Really? Hmm. I only use a Paris Prime to get my Gleaming Talon online and then I go melee pretty much the rest of round. I mean melee now is pretty powerful.

 

I would only want it to disarm ballistic weapons not melee, and only for a limited time...either until respawn or they could 'port back to main spawn point. 

 

OR it could just deplete our energy pool, until blur orbs or energy station-refill.

 

Otherwise what is the function of Radial Disarm in PVP?

[RawGritz]

Mirage

 

Prism seems a bit OP. I see players spamming it from their spawn point as it travels to the enemy spawn point killing everything. 

 

Would be nice if the beams could be blocked with melee and/or the darn thing could be shot down.

[Cleesus]

Really? Hmm. I only use a Paris Prime to get my Gleaming Talon online and then I go melee pretty much the rest of round. I mean melee now is pretty powerful.

 

I would only want it to disarm ballistic weapons not melee, and only for a limited time...either until respawn or they could 'port back to main spawn point. 

 

OR it could just deplete our energy pool, until blur orbs or energy station-refill.

 

Otherwise what is the function of Radial Disarm in PVP?

Im not sure, a good number of powers dont exactly work the same in pvp.

[Racercowboy]

Trinity: Link is insane. While active, you essentially cannot do anything to her without severe backlash to you or your team. This mostly stems from the fact that Link reflects damage, status effects, and CC.

 

Weapons with a V polarity in the top left box by default: Due to the way leveling works weapons that fall into this category have a natural advantage over other weapons simply because they can get serration/hornet strike/etc. earlier.

[RawGritz]

Come on, Tenno. We need more feeback/intel from Dark Sector players, experienced and otherwise.

[Racercowboy]

Maybe not many are posting because a lot has already been said overall on the forums here. Nonetheless I shall make another contribution.

 

Nyx's Chaos: Super large area stun + mass confusion that turns all enemies against each other, bar actual players. The impact is to big and can easily halt all progress for the enemy team.

[Cleesus]

Maybe not many are posting because a lot has already been said overall on the forums here. Nonetheless I shall make another contribution.

 

Nyx's Chaos: Super large area stun + mass confusion that turns all enemies against each other, bar actual players. The impact is to big and can easily halt all progress for the enemy team.

Oh its fine if they dont post alot. But there hasnt really been a central balance thread in awhile especially sine the new changes

[Kashiki]

Right now it feels like we're in  a MOBA

 

Intended.

 

Now, if it's true that weapons do not use forma and aura mod space... please change this. Make these usable, but turn off the aura effects. People worked hard to get their mods and forma on, so they deserve to use it.

 

Otherwise, just work on making the knockdown effect abilities less "knockdown-y". Oh, and Loki's invisibility requires a bit of a nerf. Take away that melee bonus damage and we'll be fine.

[(PSN)Alphapsykongaroo]

a ton of this stuff has been talked about on other threads a ton, but ultimately ignored.

but i got some more suggestions, some which have been said already, such as,

make shuriken skillshot based.

make bladestorm avoidable. but just blocking isnt enough since switching from your firearm to melee isnt fast enough. but maybe ppl will say "well just equip your melee, duh!" sure i could, but that just discourages the use of firearms in general, and it can make it so that im restricted to using my melee while the other team is free to shoot me from afar.

it needs a longer delay, some kind of visual cue that its about to hit, and can be avoided by rolling or coptering. or by killing the clones that have suddenly appeared near you.

make teslas destroyable. bastile and vortex gernades should be destroyable as well to give players an interesting chance to escape or counter it.

about hysteria, increase sprint speed and make it like a reverse zyphyrs turbulence. where hysteria makes you invulnerable if you are near your opponents. needs a visual indicator for that as well to know the range. invulnerability range should be effected by range mods.

or just make it give damage resist and sprintspeed.

Edited August 18, 2014 by (PS4)Alphapsykongaroo