Pvp Balance Feedback

[Cleesus]

Interesting ideas.

 

I wouldnt say any of the feedback has been ignored since concerns/ideas from us have made it in the game and affected balance. But of course balance takes time so they cant just throw a bunch of changes out at once.

 

Continuing to provide feedback will help more than you think!

 

Thanks, which reminds me I keep forgetting to leave my own feedback. I might see what this weeks patch brings first before i write something up.

[nekrojiji]

1) AoE abilities or weapons,

 

Abilities like Miasma, Avalanche, Radial Blind, etc. and weapons like Penta, Castanas, Stug, etc. work like this:

 

 

For balancing reasons, I think they should work like this:

 

 

Ogris already works like this, so it's not imposible.

 

More, AoE skills should have a visual effect before they start their effect, so, if one sees it, one can, at least try to, avoid it.

 

To make people really show skill in using AoE, the damage/CC should affect any target caught in it's path (enemy or ally). This will stop Saryn players from using Miasma in a brawl or Castanas using players asisting their allies with a rain of explosives (that actualy target only the enemy).

 

 

[Cleesus]

That is a good idea man and nice visuals to go along with it. I definitely agree that explosives shouldn't magically go through solid matter like it isn't there. At most maybe a shock wave with lowered damage.

 

Updated the OP

[motorfirebox]

If it's going to be a MOBA, why not have a "shop" the way many MOBAs do? When you level up, you can go to an arsenal station and select what mods you want to add to your loadout. To make things faster, your mod selection should probably consist only of mods that are in your main loadout. So if you go into a battle with only an unranked Redirection mod, when you level up and go to an arsenal station the only thing you'll have to select from is an unranked Redirection mod.

 

That seems like a much more player-friendly solution than the weird system they have in place now, where you have to put your mods in the right order and oh btw your formae don't have any effect.

[Cleesus]

Hmm the formas not working might be for balance reasons, im 50/50 on my opinion of it. But idk if a mod shop system might work in warframe, would you think a gun shop system would be better?

[Hueminator]

Ground Slam in DS conflict (using Heavy weapons)

 

At early level is pretty effective (if not lethal) since you don't have your sure footed/handspring mod yet.  I can't seems to block it (even though they slam in front of me).  If you are in the air, you also get knock down by ground slam, so jump to avoid it is not an option.  Hard to get out of range if you don't use a copterable weapon.  If you also uses heavy, then pretty much whoever gets their ground slam first wins  (or you can kill them while they are in the air).  

 

Possible solution?

 

1) Reduce the slam range

2) Reduce knock down chance on slam

Edited August 19, 2014 by Hueminator

[Cat_Jam]

Couple issues with PvP as far as I know:

 

1) Reflex Guard - This this is way too over powered as it is in PvE (in my opinion) and is god-like in PvP... A 55% chance to negate ALL damage? Half of the time they're going to be invincible IF you use a semi automatic weapon... Fully automatic weapons work differently, if 1 shot is blocked then a continuous block is enabled meaning after that first blocked shot all of your shots deal no damage. Fixing this could be done by either having the mod reduce damage by 25% when blocked or by removing the continuous blocking in PvP.

 

2) The Health And Shield Buff - This buff included 50% more damage on shields and 25%(?) more on health. It's a fair buff for warframes like Nova or Mirage who are squishies but not for the tanks. The 'frames with the most effective health have MORE effective health than what they had to begin with- meaning they are even more tanky. This is an issue because recently after the buff more and more players are using Valkyr (who has the most effective health in-game even without her 3rd ability...) and she's nearly impossible to take down if one decides to use a weapon that isn't considered "meta". Fixing this would be to keep the health and shields buff for the squishie warframes and remove/reduce it for the 5 most damage taking 'frames (Valkyr, Saryn, Frost, Rhino and Ash).

 

3) Melee Stunning (And Slide Attacking) - I'm not sure whether it was there pre-U14 but after the update I've noticed that every time a melee weapon touches you you get stunned (the same animation as when Quick Thinking kicks in). Boy is this a problem. Nearly 70% of the enemies I've encountered in PvP have been using rapid RoF melee weapons in order to stun lock anyone they come across and kill them slowly (or quickly depending on the melee weapon). The "tactic" is rather annoying because it's next to impossible to stop being stun locked- occasionally you can escape by either sliding/rolling away from them or getting 1 quick melee hit on them to stun them back. This requires no skill to use, as all it takes to initiate the stun is 1 single touch of the blade. Often people use slide attacking to get a quick, heavy damaging hit on the target as well as stunning them- allowing the person who hit the guy to walk over and continue stunning the target. This can be solved by simply removing the stun from melee attacks (and maybe toning down the damage from slide attacking would help too).

 

4) War Cry - Valkyr's 3rd ability can be used for a medium duration to slow the target down, effectively rendering them unable to react to any damage output you have on them (I've seen multiple players use this power to use the melee stun stated in 3)). It's not a big problem but toning down the duration or the amount it slows the target down could help when balancing PvP.

 

5) The Map (And Stealth) - This one is more of a suggestion to help boost stealth in PvP. First of all: the map. When a player shoots with an unsilenced weapon a red tenno sign will appear in the place they shot and will fade out over 5(?) seconds. This will alert the opponents of their previous position (this would also make the "Hush" and "Suppress" mods more effective in PvP). Secondly: the red aura. Currently in PvP enemy players are shown with a red aura (much like the aura on your warframe when your shields are depleted) and makes them visible from anywhere on the map. To improve stealth remove this aura from constantly being applied and enable it when the player is shot for a small duration (again, 5 (?) seconds).

 

Other things I have missed out area already balanced in my opinion- Including QT + Rage. I think these mods are balanced because they were nerfed and also because it makes squishie 'frames more viable for PvP.

 

Thanks for reading.

[Cleesus]

I think for next week or the week after that depending on the patches themselves I wlll take all the info from this and other feedback threads and list it in the op so the info is easier to read and track. Great suggestions and points you are bringing up here guys thanks again.

[Hueminator]

Another thing with forma not working is you need to remember your warframe/weapon original polarity position in order to mod effectively.  Pretty much I have to google images of unforma weapon/frames.  It's more of a UI issue I guess.

[Irorone]

The pvp is just ridiculous as is.  Constantly joins up to games where either you're steamrolling or getting rolled (usually the latter since we all know which side tends to leave mid mission), join mid-mission and you're severely gimped since you have MUCH lower levels (getting one shot by loki with a nikana because he's level 30 even when playing my tanky blessing trin), and to top it off some abilities just being stupidly effective in tenno conflicts (i.e. snow globe with what looks like 80% slow inside or bladestorm simply cause bleed procs and spammability with the right mod set).  Literally would've been fine with warframe staying pve since everytime I've seen anything like this pvp/pve split its always bad one or another.  On that note really glad I'm a one man clan who doesn't really care about sector control (other than taxes and the general balance issues).

[Cleesus]

Another thing with forma not working is you need to remember your warframe/weapon original polarity position in order to mod effectively.  Pretty much I have to google images of unforma weapon/frames.  It's more of a UI issue I guess.

Hmm I think it still can be seen as a frame or weapon issue since you wouldnt need to do all that if forma polarities worked in pvp.

[(PSN)Alphapsykongaroo]

i think reflex guard should be removed completely as it's basically a luck based frontal invulnerability shield. and also grants immunity to auto or burst weapons. with qt and reflex guard included, only the vectis stands a chance of hurting your enemy. even then, if you got 2 people using vectis on each other, the one who has luckier reflex guard rolls will win. and comeon... luck shouldnt be what decides who the victor will be, it should be skill, right?

but if it must remain in the game, it should at the very least definately also take stamina into account. and it would only work it you have over 50% of your stamina remaining, then it would be somewhat balanced.

Edited August 21, 2014 by (PS4)Alphapsykongaroo

[--Q--uaint]

I posted something here, but I suppose it's more relevant here. However, I didn't want to post a duplicate post :P

[Cleesus]

Round 2 will be coming soon, get your paragraphs ready to throw at me (╯°□°)╯︵*paragraphs*