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Totalbiscuit Quit Warframe Over The U14 Ui.


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So I'm watching TotalBiscuit's DOTA2/hearthstone stream right now and someone in the chat asked him if he's revisited Warframe. He said he did, but when he saw the new UI he was so confused he quit.

He said it was snazzy but too complicated.

 

Make of that what you will.

Firstly, i do not know nor care of who this guy is.

Secondly, its not even hard to figure out. It's either he's lazy or he is really challenged with all due respect

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Well, I respect his opinion. After all, people can have opinions.

For myself, he maybe somewhat famous out there.

But in the game? He's just like every other Tenno.

 

For UI, it is a visual-heavy update. Maybe a problem for people who want simple UI (me included). But people adapt. We are humans after all. That said, DE could just make a setting for people to change their UI back to old style, but personaly I have zero idea how much extra work needed for that.

Edited by Lorche
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Simulation sickness. And because it does actually bother some people if the HUD bounces around as their character moves. So...that can be turned off.

 

That's pretty standard, and makes the way they've ignored it for the ship UI more puzzling.

So the hud bouncing around gives a person motion sickness.

But spinning around constantly while jumping, sliding, to try and kill enemies does not?

 

I'm pretty sure if someone is getting motion sickness from something as simple as a bouncing hud they shouldnt even be playing this game. Maybe DE can put a seizures / motion sickness warning on start up of the game to warn those types of players.

 

 

**And dont get me wrong the new ui could use some work still but it is far more new player friendly than the old one and looks much cleaner. All it really needs is a good tutorial for when you first get on your ship.**

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Here, let me repeat it again: the old UI is not the only good UI design in the world

 

That does not justify a new bad UI design, as you do over and over, and you try and silence all criticism in any way, shape or form of DE. That you insist that you can "improve" a terrible design, when it needs to be taken back for a complete redesign...as you admit they won't fix any of the important issues.

 

Be *honest*, tell him to quit. (and to tell his friends to quit, for that matter)

 

 

Sev7n -  That's correct. Simulation sickness is not the most intuitive concept, but it's very important if you're doing HUD/UI work.

Telling a significant percentage of people "stop playing because we don't want your business" is not the way to make a successful game.

 

That you think making people nauseous is good...really says it all.

 

Oh, and no, it's not sufficient to put seizure warnings on games either, you have to avoid using certain types and frequency of flashing - because it can trigger latent epilepsy in people who are not diagnosed with it and have not previously had epileptic fits. You will no doubt rage at that too.

Edited by DawnFalcon
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Why should I care about a lame internet celebrity? I tell you a secret, I was also *@##$ing about it, a lot, I got used to it by now and the beautiful view makes up for it. Not to mention it got improved a lot since the first release.

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I'm pretty sure if someone is getting motion sickness from something as simple as a bouncing hud they shouldnt even be playing this game. 

 

Yet they can play the game fine just to turn off the hud movement.  So I am not sure how you are so sure for something that people already said otherwise.  The normal in-game movements such as forward, back, turn, step left and right, etc., their vestibular system can agree with the movement they see on the screen when they press those commands so it wouldn't cause problem.  However the bouncing hud and menu swaying are further away from normal movements so that's likely to cause disagreement between what one sees and does.  For example, why does the selection tool e.g. cursor (not eyes, it's DE's wrong idea) moves to left causes the menu plane to rotate to the left?  There is also training and individual difference involved.  I don't get motion sickness from bouncing hud and swaying menus, however if I tried to read a book on a bumpy road in a car for some time I'd get nauseous, the idea is similar, and I don't know if anyone can keep their food in the guts if you're on high seas on a small boat, maybe those who have done it many times can get used to it.

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Here, let me repeat it again: the old UI is not the only good UI design in the world

....

While I agree with the statement, we are far from good UI design in warframe at the current state (we are talking about a user interface, not gameplay.  The ship is not the UI, its the backdrop for the UI.  Saying that is like saying the construction menu is the dojo).  It is clearly unfinished and most likely untested.

It could of easilly been released in stages when the individual parts were finished and mostly complete enabling them to get feedback on each part as it went along rather than what we got.

Edited by Loswaith
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Yet they can play the game fine just to turn off the hud movement.  So I am not sure how you are so sure for something that people already said otherwise.  The normal in-game movements such as forward, back, turn, step left and right, etc., their vestibular system can agree with the movement they see on the screen when they press those commands so it wouldn't cause problem.  However the bouncing hud and menu swaying are further away from normal movements so that's likely to cause disagreement between what one sees and does.  For example, why does the selection tool e.g. cursor (not eyes, it's DE's wrong idea) moves to left causes the menu plane to rotate to the left?  There is also training and individual difference involved.  I don't get motion sickness from bouncing hud and swaying menus, however if I tried to read a book on a bumpy road in a car for some time I'd get nauseous, the idea is similar, and I don't know if anyone can keep their food in the guts if you're on high seas on a small boat, maybe those who have done it many times can get used to it.

The examples you gave are not similar. People get motion sickness because what they see does not match what their body is feeling. Getting motion sickness from a game's hud moving is complete bs. I can understanding it being unnecessary because it is annoying or makes things more difficult than they should be but i guarantee you no one is actually getting motion sickness from it.

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The examples you gave are not similar. People get motion sickness because what they see does not match what their body is feeling. Getting motion sickness from a game's hud moving is complete bs. I can understanding it being unnecessary because it is annoying or makes things more difficult than they should be but i guarantee you no one is actually getting motion sickness from it.

"I haven't heard of it which means it doesn't exist"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulation_sickness#Simulation_sickness

The cause is is the same minus the physical motion component and the symptoms are exactly the same.

User input and visual feedback do not match, further aggravated by the game excessively directing your focus using camera movements and blur. This causes discomfort, nausea or just plain old headaches. For me, a fair amount of eye strain as well.

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Here, let me repeat it again: the old UI is not the only good UI design in the world

 

I put it in bold and italics so you pay extra attention to it. With improvement the new UI will easily match and surpass the old one. Sadly, that improvement will not be along the lines of making it back into the old one. If you disagree with the UI on an aesthetic level, well, there's really nothing any of us can do about that.

that you quoting your own personal opinion as gospel yet again?, seems my own and other peoples opinion isnt worth anything unless it matches yours?

 

also "design/looks" i could care less about, ive said it until im blue in the face, im more interested in functionality/operation/presentation/ease of use and the new one hasnt got it as well as the old, nor has it the spare room to change into anything as well ordered as the older ui.

 

and yes your right, theres nothing that can be done if i dont like the new ui mechanics which is why i just stopped playing and only check the forums for updates/etc to see if anything has changed i may like, ive fully accepted that the new vision doesnt mesh with what i like and just accepted that, doesnt mean my opinions on the matter are somehow invalid tho.

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Be *honest*, tell him to quit. (and to tell his friends to quit, for that matter)

my friends / family quit long ago around U11 era and about 98% of my clan mates, i was the only 1 clinging on to hope the whole time, since about december tho ive not really had any reason to stay other than the typical "collect em all" mindset and the lack of anythig better to play, warframe doesnt really have anything to make you want to stay once you have nearly everything going, the bad UI changes just pushed me over the edge.

 

Up to U13, ive had pretty much nothing to do for about 8 months but i still logged in just to lvl or forma some wpns or frames coz i was bored, now tho i dont even feel the need to do that because i dislike the way the UI functions and operates, it was just the final straw to make me not bother.

 

now tho im just wasting my time playing FireFall, RoboCraft and back to ME3-MP so i have at least something to occupy my time while i keep reading the forums back here, i did the same thing when eve online and wow spiralled away fro what i enjoyed so its nothing new to me and no big deal tbh.

 

deal with it or quit, 2 easy options, no grey areas, its not like anyone cant coem back if/when it improves, a lot of older warframe vet players used to suggest playing other stuff anyways to avoid burnout while some endgame or other appealing entry arrived on warframe.

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Now that I've played with the new UI a bit (after being exposed to the old for awhile) I've reached a few conclusions;

 

1) Motion sway in menus need to go. I don't have a motion sick problem, but a large enough group of people are complaining about it.

2) The frame needs to disappear once a menu is brought up. This allows the user to clearly see options on the left side (how this got approved despite QA testing and user testing, I'll never know).

3) When going through color options on items, the background should be neutral colored and have even lighting so the player gets an accurate idea of how colors look on their stuff.

4) Seperate the planets more on the navigation menu. Basically make the planets appear as a 2d circle on the screen so a user can scroll over quickly. The whole carousel deal really smacks of "this works fine on controller, but sort of half baked on m/k)

Edited by Trajhenkhetlive
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"I haven't heard of it which means it doesn't exist"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulation_sickness#Simulation_sickness

The cause is is the same minus the physical motion component and the symptoms are exactly the same.

User input and visual feedback do not match, further aggravated by the game excessively directing your focus using camera movements and blur. This causes discomfort, nausea or just plain old headaches. For me, a fair amount of eye strain as well.

It doesnt exist because the hud swaying is not intense enough to cause something such as motion sickness. If it is something is wrong with the player and should not even be playing video games.

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It doesnt exist because the hud swaying is not intense enough to cause something such as motion sickness. If it is something is wrong with the player and should not even be playing video games.

I love how you're ignoring all the medical evidence and basing your opinion on "I haven't personally been affected by it, so it must not exist for anyone ever."

 

Gotta love humanity. Ignorant in the face of the facts.

 

The hud sway causes motion sickness because the body isn't doing anything that says "move this to the left/right", while hitting a control that you know is bound to left/right (and therefore causes the character to move left or right). It's all about how the brain perceives what it sees in relation to what it's doing.

Edited by KvotheTheArcane1
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I don't care who it is or what anyone thinks of him.

 

A player found the new UI bad enough to stop playing, and he won't be the only one.

 

It is only known by DE whether the numbers are significant to their business model or not.

Edited by Egg_Chen
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I love how you're ignoring all the medical evidence and basing your opinion on "I haven't personally been affected by it, so it must not exist for anyone ever."

 

Gotta love humanity. Ignorant in the face of the facts.

What medical evidence? A wiki link with a detailed definition?

 

I'm not being ignorant to any of it im just not dumb enough to try and use motion sickness as an excuse for why the ui is bad.

 

**And all of you claiming you have it from the hud need to do a little more research on it because you are misinterpreting its definition**

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I don't care who it is or what anyone thinks of him.

 

A player found the new UI bad enough to stop playing, and he won't be the only one.

 

It is only known by DE whether the numbers are significant to their business model or not.

 

Steam numbers are up. The devs have said overall player numbers are up since U14. If people are quitting, there's not enough of them to make a difference right now.

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What medical evidence? A wiki link with a detailed definition?

No, as in, doing a basic google search.

 

Oh, and I'm sure I can find it if you want, but last I read, Wikipedia was about as accurate as the Encyclopedia Britannica, so screw the argument of "but that's wikipedia!".

 

I'm not being ignorant to any of it im just not dumb enough to try and use motion sickness as an excuse for why the ui is bad.

That's being pretty ignorant. You're ignoring a bunch of evidence of motion sickness can be caused by video games/computers. Here, some quick links from a basic google search:

http://www.padgadget.com/2014/02/11/new-medical-study-shows-ipad-can-cause-motion-sickness/

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/BenLewisEvans/20140404/214732/Simulation_Sickness_and_VR__What_is_it_and_what_can_developers_and_players_do_to_reduce_it.php

 

both of those say what causes it, what the symptoms are, etc.

 

And it's not just this that makes the UI bad. It's still inefficient. A good UI is simple, quick to get to whatever you want, and doesn't have a million buttons for every different thing. Instead, each area should have multiple things, such as the old UI's mod system.

 

**And all of you claiming you have it from the hud need to do a little more research on it because you are misinterpreting its definition**

Yes and no. Proper term is simulation sickness I suppose, but it has the same effects as motion sickness, hence people calling it motion sickness.

 

Or, if we're completely off the mark, please tell us why.

 

TL;DR, you're wrong.

 

Steam numbers are up. The devs have said overall player numbers are up since U14. If people are quitting, there's not enough of them to make a difference right now.

It's always up after an update. Give it time and it'll drop down again, just check the steam charts over say, the last year or so. Every spike is around update time.

Edited by KvotheTheArcane1
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It's always up after an update. Give it time and it'll drop down again, just check the steam charts over say, the last year or so. Every spike is around update time.

 

It's already come down. We're hanging at around 20k online at any given time right now, before the update we were at around 12k

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No, as in, doing a basic google search.

 

Oh, and I'm sure I can find it if you want, but last I read, Wikipedia was about as accurate as the Encyclopedia Britannica, so screw the argument of "but that's wikipedia!".

 

That's being pretty ignorant. You're ignoring a bunch of evidence of motion sickness can be caused by video games/computers. Here, some quick links from a basic google search:

http://www.padgadget.com/2014/02/11/new-medical-study-shows-ipad-can-cause-motion-sickness/

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/BenLewisEvans/20140404/214732/Simulation_Sickness_and_VR__What_is_it_and_what_can_developers_and_players_do_to_reduce_it.php

 

both of those say what causes it, what the symptoms are, etc.

 

And it's not just this that makes the UI bad. It's still inefficient. A good UI is simple, quick to get to whatever you want, and doesn't have a million buttons for every different thing. Instead, each area should have multiple things, such as the old UI's mod system.

 

Yes and no. Proper term is simulation sickness I suppose, but it has the same effects as motion sickness, hence people calling it motion sickness.

 

Or, if we're completely off the mark, please tell us why.

 

TL;DR, you're wrong.

 

It's always up after an update. Give it time and it'll drop down again, just check the steam charts over say, the last year or so. Every spike is around update time.

To quote it up quick 

No. I am right.

And i honestly dont give a f*** if some 12 year old kids are going to use motion sickness from something as simple as the hud sway to try and benefit their argument.

 

But hey if i am wrong i apologize to all you who get motion sickness. It must suck not being able to even watch a youtube video since they cause a more intense situation where motion sickness could be in play. 

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