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Why Do People Dislike Coptering?


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I find it odd that DE decided to keep coptering, when in the past they did fix a movement exploit that came previsouly. It was some kind of bunny hop slide exploit that did pretty much exactly what coptering does. DE got rid of it because, "It just didn't look right, and was unintended"

 

Which leads me to believe that coptering's continued existance isn't exactly set in stone, contrary to what DE has been reported to say

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Coptering is bad because:

1) I trivializes the other fun skills like wall running, sliding, etc. along with other "movement skills" like Excalibur's Slash Dash, Nova's Wormhole and others.

2) It narrows weapon selection/mod loadouts

3) Looks dumb.

4) In a game where the tanky frames aren't used much outside of defense missions because they get left behind, lose all credits, because the rushers refuse to wait those extra 20 seconds at the exit it just separates the gap (Rhino + Arcane Vanguard is the exception).

5) Rushing through also trivializes the gameplay/combat for a co-op game that you want the team to stay together and fight.

 

All in all, I wouldn't mind coptering if it weren't for the rushers and the ability of them to rob their teammates of co-op, xp, etc. In general I view rushers as only one step above those AFK: i.e. leeches.

 

1. Not really. There are things that Wormhole and other movement skills can do that coptering can't. E.g- Travel vertically.

2. Incorrect. You are not forced to use weapons that are good for coptering. You are not forced to copter.

3. This is subjective.

4. Rhino is one of the most widely used frames in this game. This 'point' is just you expressing your distaste for rushers. Coptering does not inherently make you a rusher. Edit: Now that I think about it, this complaint doesn't even make sense as an anti-coptering argument. Taking coptering out of the game wouldn't change the fact that faster frames are faster. And coptering isn't even the only way to make yourself faster.

5. This 'point' is just you expressing distaste for rushers, see the last sentence in #4.

 

You're in the wrong thread. No one is asking for your opinion on rushers. Rushers and Leeches are complete opposites of each other. I question your understanding of what a rusher is.

Edited by SquirmyBurrito
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1. Not really. There are things that Wormhole and other movement skills can do that coptering can't. E.g- Travel vertically.

2. Incorrect. You are not forced to use weapons that are good for coptering. You are not forced to copter.

3. This is subjective.

4. Rhino is one of the most widely used frames in this game. This 'point' is just you expressing your distaste for rushers. Coptering does not inherently make you a rusher.

5. This 'point' is just you expressing distaste for rushers, see the last sentence in #4.

 

You're in the wrong thread. No one is asking for your opinion on rushers. Rushers and Leeches are complete opposites of each other. I question your understanding of what a rusher is.

I would say that his fourth point was more unclear than just expression of distaste. Mainly because he says they lose all credits when that is only true in tower/orikin derilect missions. Also for the fact that you have to take in the account of Arcane helmets no longer being available to newer players, so that's irrelevant. 

I would also say his fifth point is just a bad example where, as we are a cell of stealth ninjas, you should realize that staying to fight isn't always a good option, along with the fact that it is smarter to send one person forward for reconassaince or as a room clearer for the slower, tankier frames. Or just the plain fact that the whole cell could stay together while all going super fast to, well... GTFO. 

 

Also, your third point on his third point seems to be a "majority rules type of thing" It seems to be a 40/40/20 pie chart thing, the first 40%'s being the people who dislike the look, the next 40% being the people who are indifferent and the last 20% to be the people who like the look. 

 

 

And very lastly, the second point. Look above. I already said something about that. 

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I only really bring a weapon to copter if i feel i'll need to keep up (ex: frost and even then it's only to keep up since i don't know all the parkour opportunities available on each map). With certain frames i'll make use of their other abilities if necessary though (warpspeed rhino/excal, ripline valkyr, etc.)

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Coptering is bad because:

1) I trivializes the other fun skills like wall running, sliding, etc. along with other "movement skills" like Excalibur's Slash Dash, Nova's Wormhole and others. - Skill sets those that do not copter may use(keep in mind there are many that do not copter due to various reasons). Most people still slide. I never saw anyone spam wallrun even in closed beta. I see you like running. you like rush then, eh? Running os for toher games. Scraping your &#! on the tarmac is where it's at.

2) It narrows weapon selection/mod loadouts - Not my loadouts, though I like using copter. I don't see uch coptering these days, looks like they discovered other mods/weapons.

3) Looks dumb. - Well, sliding in midair looks dumb as well as the strike that follows it. Could use a better animation which the same result that supports the copter.

4) In a game where the tanky frames aren't used much outside of defense missions because they get left behind, lose all credits, because the rushers refuse to wait those extra 20 seconds at the exit it just separates the gap (Rhino + Arcane Vanguard is the exception). - This happens w/o the copter and most people i see don't copter

5) Rushing through also trivializes the gameplay/combat for a co-op game that you want the team to stay together and fight. - Often see teams stay together, some never slide and get left behind.

 

All in all, I wouldn't mind coptering if it weren't for the rushers and the ability of them to rob their teammates of co-op, xp, etc. In general I view rushers as only one step above those AFK: i.e. leeches.

Not many copter users these days. Must be lucky or the numbers aren't that great. Also notice big gaps in corpus planets that there aren't any coptering there. it's like it's becoming rare. Feel alone whenever I decide to use it. Hardly anyone uses it.

 

Not really an issue anyway...

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My issue with it is that it causes essentially a multiplication effect on movement differentials between warframes. 
A Loki running 1.25 meters per second, and a Rhino running .9 isn't too bad of a difference. But if that Loki has copters and that Rhino doesn't, there is no reasonable way for teamwork to happen between those two speeds. Even a Loki running at Rush modded levels compared to that Rhino isn't teamplay breaking. But when combined with the disparity between Copter and no copter allowing him to not only cross horizontal distances faster, but use less stamina to do so, while also having more sprint speed to use with that extra stamina. It's just totally teamplay breaking. If every weapon could copter, that would be fine. If no weapon could copter, that would also be fine. 
 

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It looks ridiculous. Especially when I, showing the game to someone else who doesn't understand coptoring, and it looks like a bunch of d bags swinging in the air. That's the high level gameplay. Plus, it renders parkour even more useless than it already is since you can just soar thru the air like an eagle. I'd like parkour to be relevant...

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My issue with it is that it causes essentially a multiplication effect on movement differentials between warframes. 

A Loki running 1.25 meters per second, and a Rhino running .9 isn't too bad of a difference. But if that Loki has copters and that Rhino doesn't, there is no reasonable way for teamwork to happen between those two speeds. Even a Loki running at Rush modded levels compared to that Rhino isn't teamplay breaking. But when combined with the disparity between Copter and no copter allowing him to not only cross horizontal distances faster, but use less stamina to do so, while also having more sprint speed to use with that extra stamina. It's just totally teamplay breaking. If every weapon could copter, that would be fine. If no weapon could copter, that would also be fine. 

 

Well, it's pretty obvious those individuals have no desire for teamwork. If they are not using copter than they are using another method to lead others in the dust especially slide strike which is 2nd to coptering.

 

It's also likely those individuals have no interesting in shooting anything which goes back to that rush mentality. Those that want to kill shall not copter, those that do not wish to kill shall copter only slam into a two man door then proceeding to cuss out the slow individual under his breath, then there are those rare instances where the individual does both.

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It looks ridiculous. Especially when I, showing the game to someone else who doesn't understand coptoring, and it looks like a bunch of d bags swinging in the air. That's the high level gameplay. Plus, it renders parkour even more useless than it already is since you can just soar thru the air like an eagle. I'd like parkour to be relevant...

Then they should reinvent it. "2.0" is what they call it, yes?

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Well, it's pretty obvious those individuals have no desire for teamwork. If they are not using copter than they are using another method to lead others in the dust especially slide strike which is 2nd to coptering.

 

It's also likely those individuals have no interesting in shooting anything which goes back to that rush mentality. Those that want to kill shall not copter, those that do not wish to kill shall copter only slam into a two man door then proceeding to cuss out the slow individual under his breath, then there are those rare instances where the individual does both.

They're not rushers per sey, they just like going fast. Rushing mentality is an entirely different notion from the mentality of speed and movement and the organized distribution of speed increasing mechanics. 

I copter, and kill everything in my path, I will also engage in teamwork with whoever is the nearest to my speed level, and will even slow down to stay with them, or speed up if they are more aggressive speedsters, so long as they are interested in shootings things.

However, regardless, the fastest speed a player can be in the game, should not be able to clear multiple tiles in the same time the slowest player can clear one so long as they are progressing in the same fashion. 

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Why is Coptering such a problem? I've looked through multiple threads and found nothing to answer this question and I'd like a straight answer. Or at least a better answer than the most used "He's faster than me." 

 

a fair question

 

this thread i think has done a decent job answering it, but ill try to bullet point

 

"copter-ing" (bonus point for anyone who actually remembers how it got given the name) ...

 

- negatively incentivizes most all vaulting/parkour movement, since coptering is easier, requires no terrain usage, and is faster in most cases

 

- negatively incentivizes the use of other movement ability warframe powers (especially in the horizontal)

 

- negatively incentivizes the use of slower melee weapons (they have to be 'heavy' weapons), since the speed of a melee weapon is tied to the copter spd

 

- makes base frame spd differences pointless (frost with an amphis can fly across the map faster than a loki with a fragor)

 

- makes all stamina/rush/etc mods worth less, since coptering requires no stamina conservation and can be spammed regardless

 

- defeats the entire purpose of having an existing stamina/sprint mechanic ingame (a system which has been abandoned in ruins for over a year now)

 

- looks buggy and ridiculous, not in-theme with the warframe universe at all

 

- for whatever reason, the DEv team thinks that coptering = rocket-jumping, but i disagree, rocket-jumping did not have a laundry list of negative correlations with quake that coptering has with warframe

 

MANY of us in the community are fine with the sliding melee spin atk, but we want the ridiculous flying across the room acceleration removed

 

IMHO the ideal solution would be to rework the existing stamina/sprint system (parkour 2.0 can be its own thing, seperate), and make running/sprinting viable and functional, then ppl wouldn't be relying on coptering to spd through missions

 

sidenote - MANY ppl hoped that melee 2.0 would rework the copter mechanic and that DE would give us a more fitting gap-closer, at least a more in-theme animation and function (flying at blur spds across a tile is not very usable in combat, it is often random and hard to aim)

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They're not rushers per sey, they just like going fast. Rushing mentality is an entirely different notion from the mentality of speed and movement and the organized distribution of speed increasing mechanics. 

I copter, and kill everything in my path, I will also engage in teamwork with whoever is the nearest to my speed level, and will even slow down to stay with them, or speed up if they are more aggressive speedsters, so long as they are interested in shootings things.

However, regardless, the fastest speed a player can be in the game, should not be able to clear multiple tiles in the same time the slowest player can clear one so long as they are progressing in the same fashion. 

It is also clear that often, those that copter have no interest in teamwork. They rarely do. If they don't copter, they shall slide strike away from everyone or vault walls and jump away.

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It is also clear that often, those that copter have no interest in teamwork. They rarely do. If they don't copter, they shall slide strike away from everyone or vault walls and jump away.

Coptering is such an oftenly used mobility tool I do not understand the grounds for your assumption. 

 

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Coptering is bad because:

1) I trivializes the other fun skills like wall running, sliding, etc. along with other "movement skills" like Excalibur's Slash Dash, Nova's Wormhole and others.

2) It narrows weapon selection/mod loadouts

3) Looks dumb.

4) In a game where the tanky frames aren't used much outside of defense missions because they get left behind, lose all credits, because the rushers refuse to wait those extra 20 seconds at the exit it just separates the gap (Rhino + Arcane Vanguard is the exception).

5) Rushing through also trivializes the gameplay/combat for a co-op game that you want the team to stay together and fight.

 

All in all, I wouldn't mind coptering if it weren't for the rushers and the ability of them to rob their teammates of co-op, xp, etc. In general I view rushers as only one step above those AFK: i.e. leeches.

 

1. Not really. There are things that Wormhole and other movement skills can do that coptering can't. E.g- Travel vertically.

2. Incorrect. You are not forced to use weapons that are good for coptering. You are not forced to copter.

3. This is subjective.

4. Rhino is one of the most widely used frames in this game. This 'point' is just you expressing your distaste for rushers. Coptering does not inherently make you a rusher. Edit: Now that I think about it, this complaint doesn't even make sense as an anti-coptering argument. Taking coptering out of the game wouldn't change the fact that faster frames are faster. And coptering isn't even the only way to make yourself faster.

5. This 'point' is just you expressing distaste for rushers, see the last sentence in #4.

 

You're in the wrong thread. No one is asking for your opinion on rushers. Rushers and Leeches are complete opposites of each other. I question your understanding of what a rusher is.

 

1. There are other advantages, but hardly anyone uses them.

2. True that you don't have to "copter", but along with #4, you can set up a speed build for Frost, Amphis, max speed, etc. and out run EVERYTHING and skip over entire content. Say that big Corpus hanger. You can wall run, jump and copter across the entire first half of the map before the players can keep up. Even if the other players are in some of the fastest frames equipped with all speed mods and doing all the parkour, they'll never catch up, or be limited by terrain and enemies.

5. I have a distaste for rushers. Rushers are the ones who leave others behind and rush away letting the rest of the team fend for themselves. The only ones I see coptering are rushers, or those who have "given in" to using a select set of "coptering" weapons to try and keep up with the rushers.

 

It's a bad mechanic, negatively reinforces team play and should be removed.

 

That said, if you are correct that there are other ways to rush hard. Zephyr, Single-Use Wormhole, etc. The problem IS rushing. Otherwise there'd be little advantage to coptering. Left 4 Dead solved this in its own way very well. Warframe's "friendship doors" are a weak attempt at best.

Edited by PlebbyMilliner
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What I don't understand, is the community.

 

A few monthes ago, the majority were supporting coptering. Heck even the moderators joined in the "Gotta Go Fast" thing. A major outcry broke out after DE tried removing it. Now it's back. Now everyone is disliking coptering. Either that or a very vocal minority is behind all this.

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What I don't understand, is the community.

People rarely know what they want. They see parts of good in something and go 'I want that.' 

Without realizing that the whole may not be something they want at all. It might also be something they want, but not in that form. Coptering is the latter. People like the feel of moving that fast, but it's in the wrong form because of the disparity between copter powers. 

Coptering is effectively a critical multiplier on speed(Notice The highest critical chance weapons tend to be low on base damage otherwise), it makes the faster player with a better copter able to move exponentially faster than a slower player with a worse copter. But coptering isn't balanced like high crit potential is to low base damage. 

People want to move faster than the standard mechanics allow currently, and people want fairly seamless teamwork so long as that team is progressing through the mission in the same fashion. But giving that speed to only select set of weapon types, further limited by needing a certain speed threshold hampers the potential for both high speed and teamwork together. 

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