Why Do People Dislike Coptering?

[Tiqalicious]

Some people really just don't like the idea of emergent gameplay and will always label it as badwrongfun.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Tiqalicious

[Trajhenkhetlive]

My reasons here

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/292310-remove-zoren-coptering-and-increase-movement-speed/?p=3353073

[CY13ERPUNK]

Some people really just don't like the idea of emergent gameplay and will always label it as badwrongfun.

 

wrong, and you should feel bad for using weak-strawmen like this

 

coptering works against and hurts several other existing ingame mechanics, calling it "emergent gameplay" is a total cop-out and not reflective of the truth

 

just because some ppl like it is not a good reason to leave this bug ingame, that's incredibly poor logic

[(PSN)theelix]

My reasons here

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/292310-remove-zoren-coptering-and-increase-movement-speed/?p=3353073

Eh. 

 

wrong, and you should feel bad for using weak-strawmen like this

 

coptering works against and hurts several other existing ingame mechanics, calling it "emergent gameplay" is a total cop-out and not reflective of the truth

 

just because some ppl like it is not a good reason to leave this bug ingame, that's incredibly poor logic

Isn't that, like someone else said, How the combo system in mortal combat was born? 

[Alphafox]

wrong, and you should feel bad for using weak-strawmen like this

 

coptering works against and hurts several other existing ingame mechanics, calling it "emergent gameplay" is a total cop-out and not reflective of the truth

 

just because some ppl like it is not a good reason to leave this bug ingame, that's incredibly poor logic

What other mechanic? The clunky wall run? Without coptering I don't even think I would use wallrun. 

Edited August 19, 2014 by Alphafox

[SquirmyBurrito]

wrong, and you should feel bad for using weak-strawmen like this

 

coptering works against and hurts several other existing ingame mechanics, calling it "emergent gameplay" is a total cop-out and not reflective of the truth

 

just because some ppl like it is not a good reason to leave this bug ingame, that's incredibly poor logic

 

It works against and hurts nothing. Wallrunning, butt sliding, regular running, movement abilities, walking, all of those offer something that coptering doesn't. To say it hurts them is to basically claim that the only movement that matters in this game is fast, one-directional, horizontal movement. And that is false.

[AM-Bunny]

If they'd just remove coptoring and make regular parkour of comparable utility, everyone would be happy.

 

It's due for an overhaul anyway right?

[insaninater]

Call of Duty and realism in the same sentence, wow.

Seriously we use antimater,vortext that send you god know where and stomps that stop time and the freaking gravity.

I can't believe zoren copter is what some people find the least realist. 

 

My point is, if we go down this realism path, the antimatter and vortex powers are going to be taken behind the barn and shot, and the lotus will get replaced by the president of the united states. My point is Warframe isn't realistic, and it should stay that way! Because it's more fun that way!

 

 

Sooo I should be ignored because I don't agree with something? Seems reasonable. 

I mean I listen to feedback, I don't say that people shouldn't have their complaints completely ignored.

 

Oh and btw, I am not one of those people who wants warframe to become a CoD game. If it ever becomes that, I'll leave it faster than I did the body of JFK...

 

Wait I shouldn't have said that.

 

 

Well they don't make much sense, i mean why try to turn other games into CoD instead of just playing CoD? Play a game for what it is, not to try and make it conform to the dull, brown, military, shooter game landscape we live in. It's OK to be unrealistic when you're playing a shooter game. I mean for f*** sake, we play as magical ancient cyborg space ninjas from another dimension, you'd think that would establish that it's OK to have some unrealistic gameplay mechanics, like coptering, like the tenno abilities, ect. But still we get people complaining about realism. If there's a place in this world for ridiculous-but-fun shooter mechanics, and i think there is, it's warframe.

[(PSN)theelix]

My point is, if we go down this realism path, the antimatter and vortex powers are going to be taken behind the barn and shot, and the lotus will get replaced by the president of the united states. My point is Warframe isn't realistic, and it should stay that way! Because it's more fun that way!

 

 

 

Well they don't make much sense, i mean why try to turn other games into CoD instead of just playing CoD? Play a game for what it is, not to try and make it conform to the dull, brown, military, shooter game landscape we live in. It's OK to be unrealistic when you're playing a shooter game. I mean for f*** sake, we play as magical ancient cyborg space ninjas from another dimension, you'd think that would establish that it's OK to have some unrealistic gameplay mechanics, like coptering, like the tenno abilities, ect. But still we get people complaining about realism. If there's a place in this world for ridiculous-but-fun shooter mechanics, and i think there is, it's warframe.

Please refer back to believablility vs realism argument before. Where coptering is not believable and can not be made believeable, due to aerodynamics and the fact that spinning in such a way in midair would not induce forward momentum. It would induce nothing but floating in the same place unless you curve the swords upward to go down or downward to go up, respective to how they spin now, right to left (i believe). 

 

It is believable that somewhere down the line, we develop weak psyhic abilities, and we built/created/grew WarFrames and they amplify our abilities. It is not believable that if I go outside with my two Katars, jump and spin really fast, I could go flying and accelerate faster than my car can go from zero to five MPH. 

 

Do you see? Realism is based on what is possible currently. You can not currently jump from five stories and survive the fall, but it is believable we create/grew/built exoskeletons A.K.A Warframes that are able to negate the damage you should sustain. It isn't real that we currently have psyhic abilities, as far as I know anyway, but it is believable that we evolved/created technology to have such and then made Frames to amplify them.

 

Especially since realism of 20~ years ago, no one thought we would REALLY have bionic eyes. I mean, it's not possible, right? 

 

Edited August 19, 2014 by (PS4)theelix

[Arabaxus]

People don't like coptering because they think just because they don't like going fast gives them the right to complain about something other people enjoy and doesn't affect their own gameplay choices, thus hoping it is ruined for the people that do enjoy it.

[insaninater]

Please refer back to believablility vs realism argument before. Where coptering is not believable and can not be made believeable, due to aerodynamics and the fact that spinning in such a way in midair would not induce forward momentum. It would induce nothing but floating in the same place unless you curve the swords upward to go down or downward to go up, respective to how they spin now, right to left (i believe). 

 

It is believable that somewhere down the line, we develop weak psyhic abilities, and we built/created/grew WarFrames and they amplify our abilities. It is not believable that if I go outside with my two Katars, jump and spin really fast, I could go flying and accelerate faster than my car can go from zero to five MPH. 

 

Do you see? Realism is based on what is possible currently. You can not currently jump from five stories and survive the fall, but it is believable we create/grew/built exoskeletons A.K.A Warframes that are able to negate the damage you should sustain. It isn't real that we currently have psyhic abilities, as far as I know anyway, but it is believable that we evolved/created technology to have such and then made Frames to amplify them.

 

Especially since realism of 20~ years ago, no one thought we would REALLY have bionic eyes. I mean, it's not possible, right? 

 

 

I get what you're trying to say, and i don't want to sound rude here, but i don't really care that much.

 

I get the distinction you're making, and it's perfectly valid, i just don't think believablity or realism are important to the game.

 

What's important is copering is fun. And fun > realism+believability when i'm playing this game.

[vaugahn]

What's important is copering is fun. And fun > realism+believability when i'm playing this game.

 

Things being believable is important. It's pretty much the entire basis of the sci-fi genre, which Warframe falls into.

 

Obviously since this is a video game fun is the primary concern, but we have to have a layer of believable over the top of that to suspend our disbelief. 

[JacobLittle]

All you people are doing is regurgitating the same lines you said pages ago. It's like watching reruns or soap operas.

Edited August 20, 2014 by JacobLittle

[insaninater]

All you people are doing is regurgitating the same lines you said pages ago. It's like watching reruns.

 

Welcome to internet forums.

[luanle21]

not coptering, its Choptering (Chopping Enemy Along The Way)

reason is ur using swords to do it, not fist or heavy duty weapon

 

its useful cause rushing reason, people dislike it because they yet to figure how big of a grind wall this game has and decide to take it slow

its not like DE has anything to really stop rushing in anyways shape or form

 

+ who really want to not rush a mission when u played the mode over and over and over

if ur new, ya,,,, i can't blame u for hating it until u threw 100hr then tell us ur opinion

[Kartumterek]

because its a movement exploit. its really very simple

[(PSN)theelix]

All you people are doing is regurgitating the same lines you said pages ago. It's like watching reruns.

It's because people tend not to read what had happened in previous pages.

[(PSN)CrimsonShinku]

Things being believable is important. It's pretty much the entire basis of the sci-fi genre, which Warframe falls into.

 

Obviously since this is a video game fun is the primary concern, but we have to have a layer of believable over the top of that to suspend our disbelief. 

have you seen zero suit samus rocket boots? i just imagine they do something like that with the void force. i mean even before coptering, just using a slide in the air gives you a speed boost.

[ArbitUHM]

I agree with the believability arguments from theelix and others.  Even the name is silly.  It sounds like something a little kid does - arms outstretched, spinning, making a PHTHTHTTHTTH noise, until they fall over from dizziness. 

 

Wheeeee coptering woooooo *barf*

 

Plus it is an arbitrary handicap for weapons with slow swing speed.

[(PSN)CrimsonShinku]

I agree with the believability arguments from theelix and others.  Even the name is silly.  It sounds like something a little kid does - arms outstretched, spinning, making a PHTHTHTTHTTH noise, until they fall over from dizziness. 

 

Wheeeee coptering woooooo *barf*

 

Plus it is an arbitrary handicap for weapons with slow swing speed.

and the fact that most melee coptering weapons are weaker than no-copter weapons isn't a handicap to copter weapons? the dual ichors can copter acceptably, the dual zorens copter much better, but are much weaker. the dakra prime does an ok copter, the dragon nikana makes you sink like a rock, the amphis is much weaker than these two, instead it's the best copter around.

 

hell, even before coptering was granted ascended bug status, you know which were the two most used weapons? galatine and orthos prime.

 

in fact, people ONLY used these two, they were the best thing ever for damage. and nobody complained about coptering rendering them useless back then.

 

coptering brings more to the table besides "which is stronger". in the same way that i might pick a volt to go fast instead of a rhino that has better crowd control and survivability, but is slower.

 

also coptering is a fan-name, it could have been called boosting, spinboost, spinlaunch, spinvaulting, airdashing, etc etc etc.

[Alphafox]

To sum up the situation.

[SquirmyBurrito]

because its a movement exploit. its really very simple

 

It has been adopted as a legitimate mechanic, it's really very simple.

[LukeAura]

 

Coptering does not limit weapon choice. Coptering is never a requirement therefore you are always free to completely ignore it.

 

It doesn't hurt weapon choice per se, it hurts the cooperation between people. 
Most cooperative games organize themselves so that no character is significantly faster than another. This means that even fairly independent players will roughly be running in to the same challenges, or even if going different paths they will be doing so, roughly at the same time, even without directly helping each other they will still be in some way dividing it up as they go. 
Most then reinforce the notion of one class being faster by making it mostly related to in combat skills with more mobility/flexibility. Getting between combat situations is only a small differential between different classes. 
They don't rely on people being cooperative with each other to feel cooperative, and it actually makes them better coop games oddly enough. 
 

[SquirmyBurrito]

 

 

 

It doesn't hurt weapon choice per se, it hurts the cooperation between people. 

Most cooperative games organize themselves so that no character is significantly faster than another. This means that even fairly independent players will roughly be running in to the same challenges, or even if going different paths they will be doing so, roughly at the same time, even without directly helping each other they will still be in some way dividing it up as they go. 

Most then reinforce the notion of one class being faster by making it mostly related to in combat skills with more mobility/flexibility. Getting between combat situations is only a small differential between different classes. 

They don't rely on people being cooperative with each other to feel cooperative, and it actually makes them better coop games oddly enough. 

 

 

 

Don't know, I can think of at least one cooperative game wherein one class was significantly faster (unless my memory is off which is possible, I'm too lazy to load it up and check) than the others and it was not the result of combat skills. I have a feeling that I know of quite a few but I just can't think of them right now. The games that usually follow your description are MMOs, games where speed variation among classes is practically unheard of or barely there.

[(PSN)Urabask]

The same reason people hated everything about GunZ.

It's technically a bug and people can't do it, so they hate.

Pfft.  Any idiot can copter.  K-style etc. etc. is a very different story.