Krabat Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 So, TF2 and APB both have great gambling incentives, and I know some people that spent more in those games than any other games. I believe this game could really benefit from this feature. A box should cost something equal to $1 or $2, containing, say one of the following: Gold Box - $2: Warframe - Very low likelihood Weapon - Low likelihood Boost - Good likelihood Experience - Great likelihood Silver Box - $1: Maybe another type of box could contain: Rare, special weapon - Very low likelihood Gold, bronze, silver color for Warframe - Low likelihood Random Blue Mod - Good likelihood Credits - Great likelihood This could really help to monetize this franchise. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enfo Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PocketSand Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) Gambling at all is an EXTREMELY nasty business practice in f2p games. You will always have people with far more bad experiences with the system than people with positive experiences. Gambling for ADVANTAGES will straight up make groups of people unhappy in addition to the previous. See, thing about TF2 is that the goal of crates was to unbox an entirely useless item THAT CAN BE OBTAINED BY ANYONE except with a special modifier attached. Mods, credits, frames, weapons, boosts, are not entirely useless and they can only be obtained by people with the cash for it. Edited January 11, 2013 by PocketSand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingway Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) Oh yeah, let's make it so the you can get rare weapons from those boxes and mods so you don't even have to do a single mission before becoming completely broken in power... you don't really see that that would kind of ruim the whole point of the game right? Edited January 11, 2013 by Ingway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegatechBody Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) This same system is already working great in F2P games like All Points Bulletin and Cosmic Break and the majority of players like those systems. Gashapon is also wildly popular in japanese online games. Just keep the items to things you can already obtain in-game and you're good to go. The current mod system is randomized already so this isn't much different at all. Oh yeah, let's make it so the you can get rare weapons from those boxes and mods so you don't even have to do a single mission before becoming completely broken in power... you don't really see that that would kind of ruim the whole point of the game right? Super Secret: You still need to level your character to use high level mods. Also if a player can become "completely broken in power" that is a fundamental game balance problem. A player should not be able to become "completely broken in power" via free means either. Your entire post is invalidated, try again. Gambling at all is an EXTREMELY nasty business practice in f2p games. You will always have people with far more bad experiences with the system than people with positive experiences. That's cool do you have any citations for those claims or do all those MMOs that have successfully implemented Gashapon systems not exist? no. The obstinant person without reason is just a stubborn person. Edited January 11, 2013 by MegatechBody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aodhifa Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 We should get hats too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegatechBody Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 We should get hats too. But only if we can trade these hats with other players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmmokK Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 We should get hats too. Yeah! Maybe something that makes you look like a chicken would be fun! Oh... wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingway Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Super Secret: You still need to level your character to use high level mods. Also if a player can become "completely broken in power" that is a fundamental game balance problem. A player should not be able to become "completely broken in power" via free means either. Your entire post is invalidated, try again. Super secret, if you can get rare weapons from the start you'll plow trough the beginning and level up fast and get acess to the mods wich will make even the later stages easy. Also, a player should not be completely broken via free means, but if it's a fundamental game balancing problem that kind of makes it not work out in the first place, what your basically saying is, people who devote time to get the stuff should not be getting advantages at all, and should be left behind because they don't spend as much or are not willing to gamble on this. Seriously, any additing of gambling for normal items is fine, but making it rare items is just not gonna work, or better yet, make it so those boxes contain some unique warframe designs and colors, you'd be surprised at how many people are willing to waste money on customization, one glitch that happens in game for example makes your warframe get a pretty sick looking design and his back instead of black becomes blood red, i'd be willing to pay for that, and so would many others. Making the game even more pay and win would not help at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aodhifa Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 War Fortress 2! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingway Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) We should get hats too. lol man, i'd imagine warframes walking around with top hats and such... would be incredibly silly. Also your comment just reminded me that his idea would basically be the same as the whole tf2 boxes deal... Edited January 11, 2013 by Ingway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegatechBody Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) Super secret, if you can get rare weapons from the start you'll plow trough the beginning and level up fast and get acess to the mods wich will make even the later stages easy. Also, a player should not be completely broken via free means, but if it's a fundamental game balancing problem that kind of makes it not work out in the first place, what your basically saying is, people who devote time to get the stuff should not be getting advantages at all, and should be left behind because they don't spend as much or are not willing to gamble on this. Seriously, any additing of gambling for normal items is fine, but making it rare items is just not gonna work, or better yet, make it so those boxes contain some unique warframe designs and colors, you'd be surprised at how many people are willing to waste money on customization, one glitch that happens in game for example makes your warframe get a pretty sick looking design and his back instead of black becomes blood red, i'd be willing to pay for that, and so would many others. Making the game even more pay and win would not help at all. No, what I'm saying is that no player should be broken in the first place. That's what I said. As in no item in the game should make your character broken. Why should the people that sit on their duff and play the video game and not support it in any way get the best stuff? System works fine as long as no one is broken. I already said this so why are you making me repeat it, it's obnoxious. If S#&$ is broken in the game fix the broken S#&$ do not use it to lobby against cash shop items for people who actually support the development of the game and are getting the SAME EXACT ITEMS as free players. The two points are completely unrelated. If the cash shop items are the same exact things as the in-game earnable items then the cash shop items are clearly not the problem here. If you want the real truth the most successful F2P games actually run on a system where the paid players get all of the best items. They get the best items that's better than everyone else and they have large advantages. Look at SoE, Ijji, Gamersfirst, Gamigo, Nexon, etc. They all do it. Why are people who do not contribute to games even allowed to post anything but bug reports on the forums? Also your comment just reminded me that his idea would basically be the same as the whole tf2 boxes deal... It has existed long long before TF2. Edited January 11, 2013 by MegatechBody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PocketSand Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) This same system is already working great in F2P games like All Points Bulletin and Cosmic Break and the majority of players like those systems. Gashapon is also wildly popular in japanese online games. Just keep the items to things you can already obtain in-game and you're good to go. The current mod system is randomized already so this isn't much different at all. That's cool do you have any citations for those claims or do all those MMOs that have successfully implemented Gashapon systems not exist? If you don't read the forums, the playerbase of APB: Reloaded is EXTREMELY UNHAPPY with the management of the game. The fact that people spend HUNDREDS of dollars to gamble at getting overpowered weapons free to play users can't access is a tremendous driving factor in why the management has the nickname "Moneyfirst". Cosmic Break APPEARS to be a game designed for people that want an action minigame to go with their anime girl boob dressup - which is the main attraction judging by the videos and art displayed on their website - and that means they'd be gambling for totally useless items or they'd be gambling for things that aren't even related to the main part of the game. Investigating further on the NON-OFFICIAL FORUMS (gashapon not successful enough to host them?) brings some pretty good evidence that this is true. http://puu.sh/1Mjwl.jpg The single most active thread in the general forums. Even then, just because maybe a korean game implemented gashapon and was brought over to north american shores doesn't mean it would fit every single f2p game on the market. Yes, it would help monetize the market. What about the risks? Get a load of this. http://tera-forums.e...t-RNG-Cash-shop The korean version of this game has MOST OF THE CASH SHOP as a gashapon, but after one attempt of that was made on the North American market, there was EXTREMELY harsh backlash by the community. It doesn't fit every market. The best thing about that petition is that it WORKED. There is now no RNG-based cash shop item on the market for that game. It can work as an attempt as a cash grab, but I believe it is almost always harmful to a game's reputation. Edited January 11, 2013 by PocketSand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegatechBody Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) So what you're saying is a tiny vocal minority of players do not like the system? 201 people out of how many who play Tera? I'm sure the number of people who have bought the things is far higher than that! Okay cool I'm going to say it doesn't matter then. Go whine about starving orphans in darfur not video game cash shops and get off your high horse. If 50,000 quiet wheels are paying you hundreds of dollars each while being quiet and 200 wheels are being squeaky while paying you a goose egg I wonder if you're going to give two jimmies about the 200 squeaky wheels when you have 50,000 available. Also you buy the best bots in cosmic break using the gashapon. You can't even earn many of them in-game. Some are only available in the cash shop for a limited time too. Same goes for SD Gundam Force Online. Cosmic Break also has a BBS system not a traditional forum. It can work as an attempt as a cash grab, but I believe it is almost always harmful to a game's reputation. How many supernerds that actually care about that kind of junk do you think actually play these games? Being grossly negligent is dumb yeah but implementing reasonable ways to earn more revenue especially when players can earn the same precious virtual pixel items for free by playing the game is the way games stay in business and the way companies hire more developers to make more content for the game. It's a co-op game for goodness sakes it's not like they're going to run around beating you up they're going to team up with you. Edited January 11, 2013 by MegatechBody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PocketSand Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) So what you're saying is a tiny vocal minority of players do not like the system? 201 people out of how many who play Tera? I'm sure the number of people who have bought the things is far higher than that! Okay cool I'm going to say it doesn't matter then. Go whine about starving orphans in darfur not video game cash shops and get off your high horse. 201 of the MAYBE 1000 people that play a game is still a whole fifth of the userbase. The game has maybe 70 active users on the forums, people made the effort to go make their opinion known and 201 signatures is a miracle by that game's standards. It's dead. At least 20 of the people on that list were sent christmas cards by community team for the game for being valued members of the community. The people with the biggest reputations in the game, the biggest names that people LISTEN to, signed it. And it worked. The distributor actually had to stop everything, go to their supplier and tell them that it wasn't working and ask to get a setup designed JUST FOR THEM because of how heavily the remaining community weighed in. And I will remain on my high horse where I belong. It's useful for transportation. Edited January 11, 2013 by PocketSand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheetaki Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Yeah! Maybe something that makes you look like a chicken would be fun! Oh... wait... lol this post... just so much lolz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegatechBody Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) 201 of the MAYBE 1000 people that play a game is still a whole fifth of the userbase. The game has maybe 70 active users on the forums, people made the effort to go make their opinion known and 201 signatures is a miracle by that game's standards. It's dead. At least 20 of the people on that list were sent christmas cards by community team for the game for being valued members of the community. The people with the biggest reputations in the game, the biggest names that people LISTEN to, signed it. And it worked. The distributor actually had to stop everything, go to their supplier and tell them that it wasn't working and ask to get a setup designed JUST FOR THEM because of how heavily the remaining community weighed in. Those are some cool anecdotes but the fact is you don't have anything to back that up with bro. They may have changed the cash shop method because of caving to vocal minorities (or other reasons) but you don't have access to the statistics on who bought what when and in what quantitiy and how many people are actually playing the game. e: Seems they were using a costume system for these? Appears they could make more money just selling the costumes people wanted than doing it on a gashapon based system. Edited January 11, 2013 by MegatechBody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PocketSand Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) Those are some cool anecdotes but the fact is you don't have anything to back that up with bro. They may have changed the cash shop method because of caving to vocal minorities (or other reasons) but you don't have access to the statistics on who bought what when and in what quantitiy and how many people are actually playing the game. It's more than anything you've provided. The two games you cited as sources of 'successful' gashapon have either a terrible reputation from it or revolve around it. But let's hear what you have to say. Why, exactly, is this game in need of a gambling system to support itself? What good is to be gained from it? Edited January 11, 2013 by PocketSand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenericBadGuy Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 "Gambling Boxes" and similar are a disgusting practice, even in a game like TF2 which I think has a great F2P system. Keep them far away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegatechBody Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) But let's hear what you have to say. Why, exactly, is this game in need of a gambling system to support itself? What good is to be gained from it? It generates revenue for the developers to produce more valuable game content like bosses, warframes, abilities, and weapons and it's a way for people who want to support the game who have far less time to run around farming mods for hours to get similar modifications so they can enjoy the game after a hard day's work or putting their kids to bed or whatever they have to do in the real world. Not everyone who plays games can sit around all day and farm crap. In fact it's actually pretty detrimental all around to encourage that kind of behavior. Sedentary lifestyles can lead to plenty of health problems. At least you can play Warframe with a controller which means if you're using something like a recumbent bike you can play and exercise at the same time but I'm sure many many people dont have the space or means to get one of those. "Gambling Boxes" and similar are a disgusting practice, even in a game like TF2 which I think has a great F2P system. Keep them far away. Why? Edited January 11, 2013 by MegatechBody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PocketSand Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 It generates revenue for the developers to produce more valuable game content like bosses, warframes, abilities, and weapons and it's a way for people who want to support the game who have far less time to run around farming mods for hours to get similar modifications so they can enjoy the game after a hard day's work or putting their kids to bed or whatever they have to do in the real world. Not everyone who plays games can sit around all day and farm crap. The same thing can be accomplished by simply selling content directly. What if the customer does not receive the bonus on a mod that he or she desires? Are complaints going to come up that people have spent money without satisfaction? Are those people going to tell their friends about the game in a positive manner if that occurs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegatechBody Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) The same thing can be accomplished by simply selling content directly. What if the customer does not receive the bonus on a mod that he or she desires? Are complaints going to come up that people have spent money without satisfaction? Are those people going to tell their friends about the game in a positive manner if that occurs? Okay so you're saying we should just be able to buy whatever mods you want for weapon and warframes directly for plat? If you're worried about player backlash that seems like a great way to do it. Edited January 11, 2013 by MegatechBody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PocketSand Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) Okay so you're saying we should just be able to buy whatever mods you want for weapon and warframes directly for plat? If you're worried about player backlash that seems like a great way to do it. Let me put it this way. What would make gambling for content advantageous over selling the content directly to the consumer? Additonaly, I'm now wondering what you think based on the quoted statement. Does the risk of failure involved with gambling make it more fair to free users? If so, how? Edited January 11, 2013 by PocketSand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neKroMancer Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Oh, the gambling system. Bioware decided to use it as an only way players could get their hands on equipments - We called it TROLL STORE. /thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naruchico Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) No...No...and NO...If they want my money, make me a game worth spending on, not using cheap tactics to rip me off, I will pay into a game that doesnt have to play me like a con-man. look you can buy this pretty sword (its a skana with a pretty skin) I'll be happy with that. not: Bought 20 mystery boxes got 8000 credits, and a stupid decal, when joe bob bought 1 and got the super-duper mystery box warframe. Ask yourself this next time you think of this idea, would you buy a box for 10 dollars at a gorage sale not knowing whats inside? Btw it was old tupper-ware. Edited January 11, 2013 by Naruchico Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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