A Diffrent Take On The "damage Mod Problem"

[Adaptor-Face]

The damage increasing mods all have no downside to equipping them, and thus is "necessary" in "every" build, reducing build variation available. We have seen a few suggestions about how to tackle it, like adding different versions with different sub stats, removing it and make weapon increase damage for each rank up, etc.

 

My idea is a little different. Make these mods effects as a part of the mod points pool, and remove the mods themselves. More free points = more damage, simple. This gives a new slot to "Play with" and gives damage increases a downside. A little indicator besides the mod pool points to show the overall damage boost.

It will turn "SHOVE ALL THE DAMAGE MODS IN" to carefully balancing the gun to perfection. It will also promote the overuse of formas to get more damage on your favorite weapon.

 

 

The scaling of this is going to get wonky, as each weapon type is balanced around its damage mod (hornet strike giving more bonus damage than serration). But for simplistic reasons lets focus on rifles (serration) and each mod point gives 10% bonus damage, to get my idea across. The balancing must be done so that mods like Hellfire is worth using.

 

"But what about catalysted weapons?" well I dont know what is the best but i have some ideas for solutions to that aswell. 

 

The first is that a catalysted weapon gives half damage boost per mod point (5% per mod point) for the same total of 300% at rank 30, like non-catalysted weapons

 

The second is that the mod points the catalyst gives is not counting as part of the bonus damage, resulting in that if you mod your weapon for 30 mod points, it will give you the full bonus damage (using the catalyst provided mod points first).

 

The last is that it an unmodded rank 30 weapon (60 mod points) boost your bonus damage to max 600%, but this will make the game favoring catalyst users even more than it already is.

 

 

The downside to this suggestion is that it might push those "useless" mods further away from being used.

Should buff up the damage slightly across the board aswell

 

 

TL;DR: Remove the mods and make the damage bonus as a part of the mod points pool, and balance it accordingly.

 

EDIT: edited for clarity

Edited August 21, 2014 by Adaptor-Face

[Aure7]

I am very very very very very very intrigued by this. I didn't care about any of those "damage mods are always necessary!!!" threads, this is the first one that I would be very excited to be implemented.

[TheEidolon]

An interesting idea, although I feel it works in opposition to the mod system itself. The whole point of having free mod points is to use them to increase the effectiveness of your gear. Also, if this concept promotes reducing the "overuse" of formas, what then is the point of even having formas? Again, formas are integral to the mod system, and this idea would work against it.

Edited August 21, 2014 by TheEidolon

[Renegade343]

Your first solution:

 

You really need to ensure that the tradeoff is significant. Using your 10% each mod point Serration as an example with that solution, I could still max it and gain 110% + (5% * 46) = 340% damage increase (compared to 300% damage increase without installing any mods in a Catalyst weapon), and that is without slotting the Serration in a V Polarity. 

 

Your second solution: 

 

That makes weapons even more powerful, which further worsens the problem. 

 

Your third solution: 

 

Yes, it does. We already have a power difference for weapons that have Orokin Catalysts installed compared to said weapons that do not (granted, Forma can lessen the problem), and I think that is already enough to make us deal large amounts of damage. The third solution would actually widen the power gap, which is not really needed right now in Warframe. 

[Adaptor-Face]

Your first solution:

 

You really need to ensure that the tradeoff is significant. Using your 10% each mod point Serration as an example with that solution, I could still max it and gain 110% + (5% * 46) = 340% damage increase (compared to 300% damage increase without installing any mods in a Catalyst weapon), and that is without slotting the Serration in a V Polarity. 

I meant to remove the mods completly, integrating the damage they provide into the mod points pool

Edited August 21, 2014 by Adaptor-Face

[TheEidolon]

Remove the mods? So the hundreds of millions of credits players have collectively spent of ranking up mods, the thousands upon thousands of hours collectively spent farming mods, goes to waste? That's probably never going to happen.

[Renegade343]

I meant to remove the mods completly, integrating the damage they provide into the mod points pool

That is not really going to go down too well with most of the community, as well as DE(L) (to an extent). 

[Adaptor-Face]

Remove the mods? So the hundreds of millions of credits players have collectively spent of ranking up mods, the thousands upon thousands of hours collectively spent farming mods, goes to waste? That's probably never going to happen.

any segnificant change to these mods will bring a complaintstorm with it. This was just my idea how to deal with the problem these mods have in a different manner. I wasn't expecting a change like this to happen without some form of compensation, and shouldn't really be necessary to point out.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Adaptor-Face

[Renegade343]

any segnificant change to these mods will bring a complaintstorm with it. This was just my idea how to deal with the problem these mods have in a different manner. I wasn't expecting this change to happen without some form of compensation, and shouldn't really be necessary to point out.

The problem is, even with compensation, there will be quite a huge uproar over this (even if the compensation is Legendary Cores), since your idea does break quite a lot of set builds. 

 

Not to say that it is bad and such, but there is that factor to consider as well. It is not really like the magnitude of the uproar over the launcher ammo decrease, but will be lots more. 

[Yopee]

Removal of the damage mods would help a little bit with the drop table dilution problem but I don't think your suggested changes are worth it, OP.

Like Renegade said, it doesn't really do anything for the power gap between a potatoed and unpotatoed version of the same weapon as well as between different weapons.

Furthermore, with your new mod point damage system, it promotes people to not use mods on their weapons. I am always against the idea that a player will perform better by not using what is in their inventory, especially things like mods that they worked for and earned.

 

 

 

The problem is, even with compensation, there will be quite a huge uproar over this (even if the compensation is Legendary Cores), since your idea does break quite a lot of set builds. 

 

Not to say that it is bad and such, but there is that factor to consider as well. It is not really like the magnitude of the uproar over the launcher ammo decrease, but will be lots more. 

Every time the level up system/mods were changed, people go crazy and complain about it nonstop so that's not really a valid point to use for arguing whether the change should or should not happen. I still remember those days when we switched from the skill tree to the mod card system and it was hilarious how shortsighted/impulsive so many of the complainers were. "My weapon is so weak and useless now!" "I have to farm all my mods again?" "All these fusion cores are worthless!"

Edited August 21, 2014 by Yopee

[Adaptor-Face]

Removal of the damage mods would help a little bit with the drop table dilution problem but I don't think your suggested changes are worth it, OP.

Like Renegade said, it doesn't really do anything for the power gap between a potatoed and unpotatoed version of the same weapon as well as between different weapons.

Furthermore, with your new mod point damage system, it promotes people to not use mods on their weapons. I am always against the idea that a player will perform better by not using what is in their inventory, especially things like mods that they worked for and earned.

 

I was aware of this drawback when i posted, and that this is a more elitist/maxed rank approach to the problem. The thing is that the road from rank 0 to rank 30 is not that long. 

 

But you seem to have forgotten how the damage mods actually work (thats what i gathered from your post). They increase ALL damage (100% serration doubles your elemental damage), unlike the elemental mods do (multishot mods are still an option aswell). Thus slapping a couple of mods (elemental, multishot, reload) should be more beneficial (i did say it had to be balanced accordingly), but adding several  mods reduces the damage output, but increasing utility in the weapon, or atleast that was my intetion when posting this idea 

 

The one thing i forgot to mention was that this change should NOT decrease the potential damage output, only open for more ways to use your weapons

Edited August 21, 2014 by Adaptor-Face

[Renegade343]

Every time the level up system/mods were changed, people go crazy and complain about it nonstop so that's not really a valid point to use for arguing whether the change should or should not happen. I still remember those days when we switched from the skill tree to the mod card system and it was hilarious how shortsighted/impulsive so many of the complainers were. "My weapon is so weak and useless now!" "I have to farm all my mods again?" "All these fusion cores are worthless!"

I feel that time was a bit tame compared to some of the flames I see in other games. And since this time, the damage+ mods have stayed for longer than the skill tree and that the majority of players (which would be more than during the skill tree implementation) are quite used to having these mods, having them taken away in replace of something will most certainty destroy quite a bit of things and builds, and thus cause a heck lot more complaints. 

 

If we take small steps and slowly remove them (say first decrease the effectiveness of the damage+ mods) in order to swap to the original poster's system, at least the flames can be spread out a bit instead of one huge lump-sum that would drown the forums. 

[Dasmir]

Is a game about killing stuff so dps will be always better also DE is terrible balancing stuff either they overbuff it or make it totally useless. Mods has a total chaos in balance.

 

Pistol mods, In the beta pistol mods was stronger than anything mainly becouse secondary weapons was weaker than the primaries one. But with the release of new secondaries stronger than the old ones (Power Creep), Rifles quicky fall behind in terms of damage and even a shotgun was dealing more damage than rifle at distance. So they buffed a little the rifle mods and totally destroyed the shotguns (The infamous Hek nerf) making they pellets to become popcorn at X distance but pistol mods remained untouched.

 

And dont make me start with the Melee mods...