The Hunhow 2.0 (Utility-Only Companion Concept) The Rebirth

[ZeroJackdaw]

--UPDATE! Added New Secondary Abilities for all Hunhow--

 

+ 10 for the parrot-like ^^

;D I might tweak Mimic slightly in the final version, but so far I like how the Mimic reads. Expect colorful parrot coloring for this guy coming soon.

 

I want this more and more, I REALLY hope DE adds theses. 

Thank you. :D

*pats at DE's face*

DE sempai, please notice the Hunhows...

 

Hey Zero, have you given any thought to universal ability mods for the Hunhow? Y'know, such as how sentinels can use Sanctuary and Guardian? May be something to consider as an alternative to creating another Hunhow just for a couple fringe abilities.

 

EDIT: Actually, that "Iron Skin Lite" suggestion would be a prime candidate. I have the feeling excluding that power to one bird would create another Carrier situation.

 

*points to Original Post* Inspired by your input, I put the universal abilities in. I think they flesh out the usefulness of the Hunhow quite well. Thanks so much for suggesting it, because originally all of these skills would've been divided amongst the Hunhow classes and you're completely right that it just encourages the "Carrier Master-Companion" mentality.

 

As far as a slight Rhino skin skill, I was hesitant to tack that on to every Hunhow when I really thought about it, but I still liked the idea. So instead, I spun with the idea and made "Phoenix Guard" a more balanced version of the "Iron Skin" shield.

 

Let me know what you think of the skills, because all of them are likely in need of tweaking and balancing.

[Xanosh]

Yes. Birdie nam nam. Yes

[CaiusVrixen]

Recycle the kubrows and give us these beautiful Space Canaries ^^.

[Kaito_Kaiju]

The Plunderer Hunhow looks epic. I want one so bad so I can call it Bloodwing <3

[Rorkyr]

The Plunderer Hunhow looks epic. I want one so bad so I can call it Bloodwing <3

For me, Coldbeak, Nighthowl or Blackclaw ^^

[Kyotra]

-snip-

Neat. Glad you liked my suggestion, I appreciate that.

 

Phoenix Down Guard is an intresting alternative to an Iron Skin-like ability, honestly it's more of a Quick Thinking for pets (or the unreleased Sacrifice mod). All in all, good ideas, I can't see any blatant power issues with them, they'd really need to be tested to know for sure.

 

Not sure about the Taunt ability though, just seems like a blatant upgrade from Djinn, and I would rather Djinn be upgraded than replaced.

[IceDragonofAmber]

I got some more ideas for the Hunhows

 

What if the Tenno themselves tell the Hunhows when and how to use their abilities (apart from passive ones like the Plunderer abilities)? Use the mouse scroll wheel to switch between Warframe and Hunhow abilities and then select which ability you want to use (maybe even add a custom slot and mods to determine if the Hunhow themselves decide what to do or the Tenno do it)

 

I also got some ideas for some more abilites, these can be either all-around abilities or specific to one Hunhow, your choice:

 

1. Screech - A hunhow lets out a very loud screech that has a AOE effect of stunning enemies (like Excalibur’s radical blind).

 

2. Convoy - In the case of missions like Mobile Defence and Deception, a Hunhow equipped with this mod would be capable of carrying the datamass itself, freeing up the hands of the Tenno

 

3. Hold up - If a capture target is running the Hunhow will fly past the Tenno to catch the target and hold them in place for a limited time, however without it dealing damage to them

 

Another variation of this abaility would be to have the Hunhow being sent to distract an enemy, fluttering in their face for several seconds to distract them, dealing no damage but stunning the enemy for several seconds, rendering them incapable of attacking, moving or otherwise defending theselves.

 

Hope you like my suggestions

[ukovalian]

the parent hunhow should attack when anything get to close (5m) to the nest

[MagPrime]

Beautiful work, as always!

 

I hope DE gets a chance to look at your work, I would love to see these in game.

[ZeroJackdaw]

 

D: Nooo, I need puppies too. We can have both right?

 

...Although... in all honestly. I'm more of a bird than a dog person...soooo...Ermm. *fires up the puppy blender* I...best make room if these do happen.

(Naw, I would like to keep both. XD)

 

 

Aaaaah nice! Gotta love the Borderlands. I'd call mine Quoth, Death's Raven from Terry Prachet's books.

 

 

...I was so tempted to put Phoenix Down you have no idea, and thanks again for the suggestion.

 

The Taunt ability I could rework. I've not actually used a Djinn (their design just....disturbs me a bit, so I never wanted to try it) and I forgot they have that ability. I'll mess around with it, or just..scrap it. We'll see.

 

 

Added a community suggestion tab in the original post and put the powers there. :D

I like these. A bit situational, but hey, they certainly would be handy and worth trying out. Thanks for the feedback.

 

 

Ahh, a lot about the hunhow is that they don't attack, at least not directly. Perhaps a screech with knockback would be good considering you have to parkour up to the nests... Might give players some challenge. The thing is, I really don't like how you farm for Kubrows, it seems so... dishonorable to slaughter so many dogs for their young. I don't want that to transfer over to the Hunhow whereas you'd just be shooting them out of the sky just because they were protecting their offspring (stealing isn't any better but still).

 

I think Warframe needs something that can't just be shot and won instantly. The idea is "Space Ninjas" and with all the violence and loud gunfire you forget that. What might be more fun, is having to obtain the eggs with stealth or distracting the parents and stealing the egg. Adds much more variety to gameplay than shooting it. Aaaand I'm rambling, sorry. XD I will probably rework how you obtain the Hunhow slightly now.

 

 

Aww, thanks Noa! :D

 

------------

 

UPDATE: Outrider Design Rework Art complete! Reworking the Infiltrator Hunhow now.

Edited August 26, 2014 by ZeroJackdaw

[HollowFrame]

These pets look too good, I find my adorable kubrows ugly now.. I want need these. I hate you OP.

[gir240]

i love u man

[Jamescell]

Great update. The stuff looks amazing. 

[TrashSpider]

Beautiful, useful, and tactical. Not exactly a fan of the Kubrow due to them being mainly raw damage type pets. I'm also hopping if DE does put this in, obtaining the Mimic Hunhow. 

[AlphaHorseman]

Haha, posts like these, with splendid ideas that could be such great additions to the game are why I come to the Forums. +1 from me my friend.

[ZeroJackdaw]

These pets look too good, I find my adorable kubrows ugly now.. I want need these. I hate you OP.

...Come now, bat-dogs are equally as cute as bird-snakes. XD

 

 

Beautiful, useful, and tactical. Not exactly a fan of the Kubrow due to them being mainly raw damage type pets. I'm also hopping if DE does put this in, obtaining the Mimic Hunhow. 

:D I feel there needs to be at least one more living companion to balance out the divide between Sentinels and Kubrow. And I have to agree utility > damage....so much so.

 

Haha, posts like these, with splendid ideas that could be such great additions to the game are why I come to the Forums. +1 from me my friend.

Thank you sir.

 

((Update coming soon... I got distracted by the new update and school))

[Rorkyr]

The "howl" style for the first Hunhow is awesome ^^

[Aroran_Svitskna]

I REALLY WANT MAH HAWK/TENNO BIRD THING!

[Doom_Bunny]

Stealth bomber with the accuracy of a seagull it covers it's foes in excrement... I'm joking I'm joking

 

Awesome work as always.

[Khunvyel]

Sorry to deliver so late.

 

While Kubrow are mainly focused on damage and Sentinels offer a balance between damage and utility, Hunhow are fully focused on utility and will not directly attack enemies. By sacrificing direct damage, the Hunhow offer unprecedented usefulness on the field of battle in buffing their masters abilities. (Loyalty therein, will instead correspond to the percentage of energy can a Hunhow can use at a time and not damage output like a Kubrow.)

 

I'm still not sure how the energy distribution actually works which leads me to believe, they don't even HAVE an energy pool to begin with and instead everything is solely working on a cooldown timer there. Hence just use loyalty as it is, for increased damage output, as I'm not keen to push the Hunhows into the pure utility area. Also, Kubrows have GREAT utility value, if you just think about their very own Master Thief, as shared ability.

 

I would put Hunhows into "high burst damage, low overall damage, split utility" sector. And that you're already doing with the Plunderer type, as there is no "Carrier" type Kubrow. Considering the Hunhows are flying, they should be best used in open areas, while decreasing their viability in narrow spaces as they can't fly there.

 

So what would happen once they are in confined areas? Not being able to fly will seriously impede their mobility and is also stripping them from most of their abilities. The should get a generic ground based attack that hacks on people's toes. This should only happen in corridors and rooms with a very low ceiling, but of those we have quite a few on regular tiles. Thankfully, nothing like that on Defense maps. Well, perhaps Phobos Defense, but I'm not sure right now.

 

>> I sort of...hate how the breeds are RNG based with the Kubrow, so here's a fun alternative!

Definitely a very good call that I wholeheartedly support. Type C Hunhow is found on Planet 3. Oh yes.

 

>> Obtaining the Hunhow

I think it is a bad idea to reduce spawn chance of Hunhow nests while making the egg drop a guaranteed one. While that sounds pleasant at first, it automatically means that the chance to get mods for them plummet into oblivion as well. Nope. Not liking that. At least I get Kubrow mods when farming for the eggs. However, here is an alternative that might be as well implemented for Kubrow eggs;

 

It is an egg, damn right, and eggs are to be handled with care. My suggestion to Hunhow/Kubrow eggs is; let them be a pickup like datamass canisters. If you get knocked down or accidentally swap to your primary weapon, you drop the egg and it breaks. The egg has it's own HP pool, so it can be hit by stray fire and also from explosion damage.

This would be a reasonable way to increase egg drop chance and still have a bonding feeling of "I need to get this into safety now."

 

 

But now to the respective types of Hunhows. I have to admit, that I find it a bit irritating that some of these abilities seem to be with solo play in mind, and others in group play, invalidating each other's viability with changing squad size.

 

[size=4]OUTRIDER FEEDBACK:[/size]

The owlish appearance with the Lotus symbol incorporated in that is flat out amazing. Sadly, I can't quite agree with the rest. Keen eye does something the player might love or hate, which is a problem. The Outrider dashing forward and likely alerting enemies, isn't going to be nice for stealth players. The waypoint setting is also very questionable. Which waypoint would it be? If it is the player's one, then that might override the very waypoint the player just set to either highlight a mod or do something else. If the waypoint is getting a separate entity as for the Hunhow, then soon things will clutter the minimap, as it takes quite a while for them to disappear. Think about 4 Outriders in a group. They fly ahead and spot the group at the same time. Suddenly, the minimap gets blotted with 4 waypoints

 

I would cut out the "scouting" and the waypoint, the keen eye critical hit buff itself sounds fine as it is. I wouldn't go all bonkers with markers and whatnot, but with just a minor Aura around them, similar to Valkyr's hysteria effect that highlights enemies within a certain range a little bit. You have to take into consideration what happens with a plethora of enemies standing around. If the critical hit buff is overpowered or not, I cannot say. It sounds like a nice enough idea though, as long as it is within certain limits. However, the question remains again how the crit buff will be applied. As flat percentage bonus or as stacking multiplier? The latter would just further disparate low crit weapons vs. high crit weapons.

 

Caw to arms is a great name XD The question is how stacking bonuses from other Outrider Hunhows would happen, and if a speed+damage boost combined is a bit too much or not. This could quickly become the new "Mandatory" companion to passively improve your overall damage as a no-brainer, and at that specific moment, it ceases to be a utility but becomes a prerequisite.

If anything, I would go more literal with the name and either decrease weapon swap time and / or reloading time. While it could be argued that reload time is right up the alley of improved damage, this is only half of the truth. Some people just need to reload faster in order to waste more than half their clip into the thin air.

Weapon Swap speed is a very underrated and forgotten thing, and I remember my first Aura to be Speed Holster which is helping everyone who mods Primary / secondary weapons for different enemy types (corrosive + radiation for Grineer, for example) and swap accordingly. Also, it decreases the swap time to scanner and back, which is extremely important to reduce vulnerability times. If Speed Holster had more points to give, I'd probably use it a lot more. But I digress.

 

 

[size=4]MIMIC FEEDBACK:[/size]

Element adapt is again reeking of "you NEED to have this in scenario X" due to stacking bonuses. Take Infested for example, if you get hit by elemental hits, those are usually toxin. Add to that the Antitoxin mod and the aura, and suddenly everything becomes very dull. The second skill, Ventriloquism, gives the Mimic the general idea of getting things off the Tenno's back. So I would change Element Adapt to something like an AoE effect that removes all current status procs (or only elemental ones, not IPS) from players.

 

Ventriloquism is a very interesting addition to the pool of distraction and stealth, and I fully endorse this.

 

 

[size=4]PLUNDERER FEEDBACK:[/size]

Treasure Hunter should totally work as it is advertised, but perhaps without the "Master Thief" bonus, which should remain in the "Dog" territory. I pondered if this ability can be split the way it works. For example, "big" items like mods or spheres of health / energy need to be carried separately, up to three at once (beak, left+right claw) while the rest is small enough that it can be "tornado'ed" into the direction of the player with heavy wing flaps. Horray for items thrown around on the map! Okay, okay, I stop being silly. Small items are not limited for carrying as long as the Hunhow has one "slot" of the 3 left.

 

I would personally agree with the Scavenge part, if it wouldn't leave a bitter taste in my mouth to what it does to Nekros, axing at an iconic association for this Warframe. Yes, you did a good job of tuning it down tremendously, to the point where it shouldn't matter and I really like that you pushed it down so far to become a "very poor Tenno's Desecrate". Still, it feels a bit off, but that might just be me.

 

 

[size=4]INFILTRATOR FEEDBACK:[/size]

A huge and resounding "no" to the way the Alarm silencer works. Companions should not meant to be substitutes for things the player could do, and if, then they should be under no way perform BETTER than the player. 3 seconds is way too low. Put it to 8. Imagine you are a Hunhow. Or better not. Imagine you are you, and have to touch things with your nose. You hit them, and then have to take a look before another hit to see if you've even touched the right thing and pulled it into the right direction. Now imagine the speed a Hunhow would have to peck on the console to achieve as many "clicks" in 3 seconds. Neckbreaking.

Plus, for people who can't hack OR who don't have the time due to a crucial moment, there is always one thing to do: Ciphers.

 

Disruption sounds like something a technological companion should / could do but not a biological one. It is a very good idea, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't sound like it would fit to an organic being. I mean, sure, Orokin and all but *shrug?* I'd rather have a new sentinel use this. *wink wink nudge nudge concept idea*

So what would I do instead? Either do a quick "poor man's Banshee Silence" that doesn't last very long, as the supersonic screech acts as a sound-obfuscating bubble. OR; a screech that happens when there are enemies close by, similar to Wyrm's crowd control. But instead of a knockdown, enemies get staggered due to a forced impact proc.

 

 

 

[size=4]GENERAL ABILITIES FEEDBACK:[/size]

 

• From the Ashes: Wouldn't work in solo mode, so it is a no-go the way it works. I would simply use "From the Ashes" as self-rez and call it "Phoenix", because the name itself starts to get a bit too long to be stuffed into a mod card (( which is, by the way, a general problem that many people seem to have when they design things, as they don't take UI space into consideration. )) You could also change it to let the Hunhow try to pick up a downed player, but that would require a hack for solo mode so players only get into downed state when this skill is equipped and the Hunhow is alive.

   

• Lockpick; so you give us a dedicated Master Thief with the Plunderer type AND a regular one? What happens when they stack? :P Which is another proof of reason why the Plunderer Hunhow should not get this ability, and I still think this should be dropped. I also dislike the Kubrow Scavenging, as it has a way higher chance to succeed than Master Thief, and is a lot easier to obtain.

   

• Taunt; Ugh. I hate any and all kinds of forced aggro mechanics in any game, so I have a hard time with this one. But... why would it target the player instead of the Hunhow? I would rather have the Hunhow do quick feinting attacks by descending and ascending around enemies, which would provoke them to shoot the Hunhow over the player. That is a way I can live with aggro mechanic. Doing actually something that would convince you of switching target.

   

• Endless magazine: No. what? Just no. Not sure why reality hacking would be a Hunhow / Orokin thing. And as you mentioned yourself, the ability won't work on Bows and melee weapons, and neither would it work on the Vectis, for that matter. So an ability that doesn't work under all circumstances when triggered is worthless. I would scrap this.

   

• Escape Artist; That one I like again, as long as it is short enough to not be able to exploit for "infinite speed boost and stamina regen." Oh and just to make sure; speed boost should be movement only, not actual firing / swing speed.

   

• Phoenix Guard: Paladin Hunhow the Phoenix! XD My bad, I couldn't resist. I would rework it a little to be less of a "death flag" saver. once the player drops to "low health" (as indicated by the heartbeat and flashing red borders) the Hunhow links with the player and remains close by, since the link has a limited range. This link splits the damage the player received on health and runs half of it to the Hunhow. This is a one way ticket though, if the Hunhow takes damage directly from any source, it receives it in full. We don't want the Hunhow to kill the player by accident, right?

  Notice how I mentioned "damage to health." This should be kinda the alternative to Shield replenishing of Sentinel / Kubrow. Damage received on shields which have regenerated in that time are not subject to the link.

   

• Shield spark; Too op. I stand there with my Hunhow and drop Shield Boosters all day long and reel in unlimited energy. And why would I even get energy from it's shield? I'd rather to the following; if you drop to zero energy, the Hunhow sacrifices half of it's current shield, and you get a relative percentage of the points sacrificed, which increases with rank. But not to the point where half of Hunhow shields = your energy full. That would be bad.

 

 

 

[size=4]INTRODUCING COMBAT ABILITIES[/size]

Now that I've thrown some of the abilities away, it is time to fill the gaps I've left. I mentioned above that they should get a combat oriented possibility, similar to Sentinels. With that I mean, that if you take their precept away, they only try to fly with you and activating their utility skills, doing nothing else.

 

I can totally see several types of air-to-ground attacks. One that lands on the enemy, grabs them by the shoulders  and hacks on their heads with the beak. One that is a nose-dive that pummels enemies to the ground (which Zephyr already does). Another one acting as half damage / half CC skill, with a wing buffet that pushes enemies forcibly to the ground. You could even have one of them use a ranged attack in form of an acidic spit.

All these attacks are meant to be high damage, with no "generic" attack, so it takes a few seconds until they land the next one. This should also help with targeting and not "wasting" damage, as they pick an enemy and do their thing, instead of the poor Kubrow trying to run after an enemy and failing to hit due to the melee-tracking issue.

 

So from there, you can attribute different aerial attacks to the different types of Hunhows to fit their appeal. It would also be neat to have one of these attack abilities to be more effective against airborne targets.

 

 

[size=4]CLOSING WORDS[/size]

All in all, I love what you pulled out of your butt with not only concept art but also implementation. This feels like a really valuable idea to add to the Companion variety. Yet I have to admit, I'd rather not see them for a while, as I feel that U14 was more in the "new fluff" area and now we have to get a bit back on the track with content and fixes.

[alex342213334]

 

Yes... you win

Edited September 2, 2014 by alex342213334

[Mystery27zx]

Why does this only have 3 pages, I want one of these more than the Kubrows.

[Haden56]

Why does this only have 3 pages, I want one of these more than the Kubrows.

It's possible the author is having a hard time trying to make most people happy, adding suggestions but keeping some self-preferred suggestions, or people just don't have enough interest in it.

 

I for one love the idea of Hunhows. They seem concept wise far better than Kubrows, maybe even better than sentinels. Although I can see their AI being a problem due to how the Kubrows act at the moment. I'm just hoping that if these ever get into the game(PLEASE DE!), they don't have a ludicrous upkeep like the Kubrows did.

[ZeroJackdaw]

--UPDATE! NEW DESIGN FOR MIMIC HUNHOW! New abilities added for Mimic, as well as adjustment to older abilities. New Guardian Hunhow added! (That ability was just too good for just ever Hunhow to have...and I really felt it was better than the Infiltrator Hunhow which was removed)--

Thank you. :D

 

 

...You know I actually did think of doing that at one time. XD

 

Soooo much text.... my God man. XD I appreciate the feedback so much. I rewrote a lot of things throughout the original post, but I'll probably still continue to adjust the things you listed. (I took out a lot of abilities, swapped even more, and took out the Infiltrator entirely.)

 

I approve of the Harvey Birdman gif. XD

 

*shrugs* It could be because I don't spam the thread. I only post when I have an update usually. So long as DE has a chance to see it I'll be good and happy. :D Views are nice, feedback is even better, but the important thing is that the concept there for DE. I don't do it to be popular. :)

 

 

AI-wise, they would likely have the same pathing as Kubrow and enemy AI. Weird thing about designing flying units is that they're easier than ground units especially animation-trigger wise. The thing is, instead having the pawn interacting with the ground, it hovers in a fixed position above and cycles through animations for turning, moving and idling. Really it would actually interact with other geometry far less than the Kubrow does. XD

Edited September 4, 2014 by ZeroJackdaw

[Rorkyr]

OwO ... The mimic is really colorful ! Like a kind of parrot ^^ I'm already enjoyed to see the Guardian hunhow *^*