Enemy Combat Ai [Mega Suggestion]

[Kashiki]

TL;DR Introductory Rambling

Anyone who plays Warframe knows that DE tries their best to create the best experience; while there will be the unfortunate, loud minority who accuse them of disliking their playerbase - and I kindly ask that you check yourselves at the door with whatever personal problems you have IRL, I believe DE is trying their damnedest to give us a good experience.

 

Now, with that said, the game's enemy system suffers from three primary things: rather low difficulty spike, lackluster scaling tactics, and predictable enemy strategies. I can't help the difficulty spike, seeing as that's mostly due to the fact that we can wreck faces with super-powered weapons, and that's how Warframe was intended I'd like to believe. Scaling is something that can be tackled, but predictable enemy strats are what I want to focus on.

 

Thus, this idea was born.

 

The Enemy Combat AI is just a suggestion. However, it will span over the game's three factions - I want to come up with three categories of strategies for them. These strategies will constantly be updated, despite anyone's objections to it. So, please try and be positive and help discussion; it won't get anywhere if you aren't being conducive to the idea - your comment will just be ignored, anyways :P

 

Each AI difference has some explanation behind it. Now, a few things:

• Ideas are still being developed. Thus, things will probably not be too elaborated on; that's what I need the experienced playerbase for.
• There may be math, and it will be incorrect. I major in game development, but mathematical formulae are not my strong point. Any budding/current math whiz's on here: feel free to check and wreck me - it'll teach me things and keep the discussion rolling.
• Give input! Opinionated people, give some suggestions on each of these, tell me what I should change, create new things, and bring forth your inner developer. I want to try and simulate some sort of agile discussion thing; let us iterate, create, and annihilate!

Beyond that, I'll cross whatever bridge I come to. So, let's get started...

 

Oh, wait! It's dangerous and fiery out here in the wild, so take this:

 

For Everyone's Protection

__________________________________________________________

 

G R I N E E R

Really, the only troops to pose a major threat are the powerful shock troops (Scorches and Eviscerators) and the Heavies. What they need are some good combat tactics - ones that don't involve just standing there... watching... shooting. Actually, if they're going to do that, they need some tactility behind it. They are a military, after all.

 

AI: COMBAT FORMATIONS

Remember "Combat Formation Bravo"? Well, that was a cool joke for the time, but now this should be serious. The combat formations are the various positions that the enemy take to increase their tactical efforts and damage output. Each formation should have the ability to have the enemy behave differently. More to come later.

• Bravo: The primary Grineer striking formation; they all split up, taking different sized groups to hunt down Tenno. The size of a group of Grineer group going after the Tenno is proportional to the number of available troops during the formation's creation.
  • Without Heavies/Eximus: When there are no Heavies or Eximus troops available, these groups will take a few Lancers, some melee units, and one or more Trooper/Scorch/Evicerators within the group, depending on the level and spawn rate.
  • With Heavies/Eximus: Now, they have their group leaders. For each group, there will be one or more of them, depending on the level and spawn rate. The groups will consist of normal units, a Heavy or two, and maybe even an Eximus there with them.
  • Disruption: The Bravo groups can be dispersed rather easily by either just dispatching the groups, or through the defeat of the team leaders (Heavies and Eximi). Getting rid of them will cause the other soldiers to regroup 
• Phalanx(?): A defensive-style of Grineer strike position. The ranged Grineer units will release a Regulator (subject to change), stand in a horizontal straight line in plain sight, and begin hailing down continuous fire on any Tenno in sight.
  • Troop Positioning: Their primary positioning is usually in front of doorways and paths where Tenno are attempting to escape. This way, a Tenno cannot simply run away from the battle without finding a way to either outmaneuver them or just brute force their way around. They adapted this strategy to deal with the more efficient and quick enemies.
  • Targeting: They will target any Tenno in range during the Phalanx formation. If there is a single Tenno, all fire will be directed on them. If more than one are there, the fire will be spread out.
  • Disruption: The Phalanx is not as easily disrupted; the destruction of the Regulator will allow for full damage on the Grineer once more, but the phalanx stands tall. However, use of explosives knockdown will disperse the group. Otherwise, they will keep this stance. A good strategy is to preemptively stop any phalanxes as the Grineer begin lining up after the release of the Regulator 
• Shadow: Taking to a camping maneuver, Grineer groups will hide around corners and behind cover. Their sniping shots from these positions are more precise than before.
  • Troop Positioning: Their strategy is to hide and snipe. Thus, wherever there is maximum cover for them, they will hide. They never stray too far from one another. Heavies may or may not hide (up for discussion).
  • Damage + Proc Increase: The damage increase they gain is through burst. They will have more precise shots that will proc whatever element is their forte, as well as deal more damage than they would under normal circumstances.
  • Disruption: This is, possibly, the easiest to disrupt. Upon coming into a 10m view behind their cover, the troop will lose their S#&$ and start blind-firing at you while running away. This makes them easy pickings, as they lose that precious damage increase 
• Reinforcements: A broad category. A group of Grineer under fire may call for backup - at that point, enemies will either spawn or those in range will redirect their attention to the Tenno they are supposed to be targeting.
  • Targeting: The targeting for this one is a little more complicated. The Grineer who have focus on a certain Tenno/group of Tenno will call their reinforcements to deal with those they originally had problems with. Some Grineer in the area, as well as more spawned units, will target those specific Tenno even if the caller of the reinforcements diverts their attention.
  • Action: The spawned forces will use the above combat formations, but will target only a certain Tenno until they are killed or disrupted.
  • Disruption: Disrupting attention from the targeted Tenno works as it does at any other point; another Tenno has to pose a more immediate threat. Get the attention diverted and you will save your brother-in-arms

AI Improvements

-- Upon reaching Level 20 (considered "hard" level for Interception):

--- The normal Grineer troops gain the ability to bomb-rush. This bomb-rush is similar to the Ancient's knockback/down, where the troop will rush and blitz a single Tenno. They will then focus their fire on the prone Tenno.

--- The Grineer turn quickly when a Tenno runs behind them to hit cause a stun with their melee hit. This can only be done when a Tenno has been detected. They will focus their fire on the Tenno they hit, running away from them as they shoot to quickly take cover.

--- [Needs Discussion] Grineer accuracy becomes higher; units are able to snipe from farther stations, and have a chance to hit airborne (Zoren) Tenno while they're in mid... flight (lol).

--- Grineer begin flanking from different sides. When there is an alternative path available, the Grineer will sneak around that way and deliver a stun blow to Tenno who are taken off guard.

--- Grineer gain the ability to call reinforcements via the use of the "Combat Formation".

 

- Ballista: A very, very good unit, wasted on simple hipshot AI mechanics.

-- Used for more sniper-based measures. They will perch/hide and snipe the Tenno from long range.

-- Used for counter-sniper measures. If they spot a Tenno with a sniper rifle out, or if the Tenno attacks from a higher elevation, they will target them first and foremost. [To be discussed: Counter-sniper shots deal extra damage/proc].

-- Higher accuracy than normal Grineer. (Possibly already a mechanic).

-- Focuses on a single Tenno at once instead of changing targets constantly. They will change targets to another Tenno that comes near them.

 

C O R P U S

Coming when I get some sleep.

 

I N F E S T A T I O N

The Infestation are a hive mind of creatures whose goal is to attack, spread, and multiply. Ingrained in their system is an inherent aggression toward all things non-Infested, as well as a burning urge to infest that organism. However, there are many, many instances where the Infestation could be a little less predictable - they are a living, frightening, aggressive virus; they'll need some AI that mirrors that. 

 

AI: Manifestation & Subduing

Manifestation is the process of creating more of their kind. Through twisting the bodies of their enemies, the Infestation fuel their numbers. However, there is always a set number of them, even if said number is enormous. Now, look around - there are plenty of places where the Infestation's massive numbers could be added to. Using the growths around you that are just everywhere on the map, the Infestation could begin appearing out of them.

 

When they appear out, they leap on an unsuspecting Tenno, triggering some sort of cinematic for the victim. They begin taking damage while the Infested creature is on top of them, roaring and doing stuff to them (think Zanuka from "The Profit" trailer). Upon kicking it off or getting a teammate to shoot it off, the Tenno will resume battle like normal. Out of that space, more Infestation will appear, alongside the ones that appear normally. It adds to that scare factor.. If the Tenno was knocked down already, they'll have some time before another beast attempts knock them down for less rage.

 

AI: Subduing Advanced

Some Infestation that jump on a Tenno will deal some moderate damage to them, sending them into the cinematic. The Tenno needs to get that Infested off of them, either through kicking it off or getting a teammate to do it. If the Tenno was knocked down already, they'll have some time before another beast attempts knock them down for less rage.

 

AI: Random Leaper/Runner Cloning

Something that would be cool; lots of people know that it's easy to trick a Leaper by running behind it. So, when a Tenno tries that, the Leaper will suddenly grow an extra Leaper, who will immediately lunge at the Tenno at a long range. This won't trigger a cinematic, it will follow normal Leaper knockdown mechanics. For a Runner, there are random times when the Runner will explode, and from the explosion one or two more Runners will appear. They will run at the user, exploding when in range.

 

AI Improvements

Ancients

The Ancients, as of right now, are just beefers with an awesome aura. However, that aura and pull are almost unavoidable. If you get caught by an Ancient, 9/10 you're done if they are a Disrupter. Beyond this, they aren't really a threat unless they are Eximi - that's no fun, and they're still (relatively) easy to kill.

• All
  • Make their arm visible, using that as the way to catch you. This is said knowing that the hook is a placeholder. Make their pull ability slower as it flies at you.
  • Make the damage reduction values for their aura more noticeable.
  • Have a high resistance to knockdown.
• Infested Healers
  • Have the ability to revive dead allies, so long as their heal pulse happens before the bodies dissipate.
  • Their heal pulses heal health over time for all Infested units after the initial burst of health regen so long as the aura is over them.
  • Make their heal pulses generate a resistance to knockdown.

 

-------------------------------------

Again, everything here is continually being iterated on. Even as you comment, I'm working on it and taking in any discussion.

 

Credits

Currently channeling notionphil's thread. Hopefully, RNG will bring him in here.

 

Need Working On

- Corpus AI Improvements

- Infested AI Improvement

- Survivability Across All Three Factions

 

Additions:

- Added "Ballista" AI changes.

Edited August 25, 2014 by Kashiki

[Photon95]

Neat stuff. I will add that new infested are in the works, some of which fit parts of your suggestion. Although, what comes to mind when I read the part about a cinematic, infested usually come out in massive numbers, and on top of that, you have various poisonous attacks that can make it even more of a hassle to remove the attacker with minimal damage unless everything else had little to no effect for that duration. Just my thoughts. Keep it up!

[Agentcheese]

although I like your ideas for most of the grineer combat formations I have to agree with photon when it comes to the cinematic. for me the cinematic could easily  turn into some sort of constant stun-lock. and I already hate it how much the infested ancients  stun-lock you all over the place.

 

but other then that though I like a few of these ideas.

[unknow99]

This + notionphil = gold.

[AgentSkye]

For those who haven't seen it, unknow99 is almost certainly referring to this massive thread:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/238581-forget-better-ai-we-need-better-dumb-enemies/

[Lukap99]

Just finished reading the Grineer section, and there's something I have to point out.

Grineer actually always aim at you no matter what. They have 100% accuracy, it's only the weapon spread that gives the illusion of them missing.

It's something that's been bugging me ever since I noticed it fighting Vay Hek back in U7 & U8.

[letir]

Just finished reading the Grineer section, and there's something I have to point out.

Grineer actually always aim at you no matter what. They have 100% accuracy, it's only the weapon spread that gives the illusion of them missing.

It's something that's been bugging me ever since I noticed it fighting Vay Hek back in U7 & U8.

Actually, all gunners in this game have delayed aim and slow turning speed.. If you run fast enough around them, they will always miss.

Edited August 24, 2014 by letir

[Kashiki]

Neat stuff. I will add that new infested are in the works, some of which fit parts of your suggestion. Although, what comes to mind when I read the part about a cinematic, infested usually come out in massive numbers, and on top of that, you have various poisonous attacks that can make it even more of a hassle to remove the attacker with minimal damage unless everything else had little to no effect for that duration. Just my thoughts. Keep it up!

 

Thanks, mate.

 

Yeah, that's what planned on tackling, today. I was thinking about the cinematic thing once I wrote it; the infinite stun lock is such a damned problem. I think (as I'm too f-ing tired at the moment) that I put something about a cooldown before that can happen, again? Like, it won't happen again because the Tenno becomes more aware of the creatures hiding in the shadows.

 

Yeah, the minimal damage portion was just to keep a Tenno on their toes. I'll think about it as I update. Thank you for your input, brother Tenno.

 

although I like your ideas for most of the grineer combat formations I have to agree with photon when it comes to the cinematic. for me the cinematic could easily  turn into some sort of constant stun-lock. and I already hate it how much the infested ancients  stun-lock you all over the place.

 

but other then that though I like a few of these ideas.

 

Thank you, Mr. Cheese.

 

Yesh, yesh, I shall think up more on the cinematics.

 

This + notionphil = gold.

 

For those who haven't seen it, unknow99 is almost certainly referring to this massive thread:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/238581-forget-better-ai-we-need-better-dumb-enemies/

 

 

Yeah, I love that guy's thread. Get him in here if you can.

 

 

Just finished reading the Grineer section, and there's something I have to point out.

Grineer actually always aim at you no matter what. They have 100% accuracy, it's only the weapon spread that gives the illusion of them missing.

It's something that's been bugging me ever since I noticed it fighting Vay Hek back in U7 & U8.

 

Really? o-o That's... lame. Alright, I'm going to add something about aim and how to fix that problem in the AI Improvements. Thank you, Brother Tenno.

[Lukap99]

Actually, all gunners in this game have delayed aim and slow turning speed.. If you run fast enough around them, they will always miss.

ThisRequiresMoreTesting™

[unknow99]

For those who haven't seen it, unknow99 is almost certainly referring to this massive thread:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/238581-forget-better-ai-we-need-better-dumb-enemies/

Yup, exactly man.

 

 

Yeah, I love that guy's thread. Get him in here if you can.

 

Notionphil?!! Get yo Ash up here, we're asking for it!! (please.)

[Lukap99]

Yup, exactly man.

 

 

Notionphil?!! Get yo Ash up here, we're asking for it!! (please.)

I may not be notionphil, but I may know what he might say.

Something along the lines of "What good are intelligent enemies if they don't live long enough to use their newfound intelligence?"

[Vastaren]

I may not be notionphil, but I may know what he might say.

Something along the lines of "What good are intelligent enemies if they don't live long enough to use their newfound intelligence?"

This.

I read through the Grineer suggestions, and I'm all for having formations and squad-level tactics and immersive, interesting stuff like that... except my one big concern is crowd control. Mag's Pull, Banshee's Sonic Boom and even Excalibur's Slash Dash are all designed to completely negate enemy defenses like the ones you propose to enhance. Formations (AI?) are all well and good until someone discovers Metal Auger or Thunderbolt. These changes, for he most part, would be great if only they could be appreciated in the split second before a barrage of Shred-augmented Soma rounds tears through them, leaving players to wonder, 'was I just that lucky to catch them all in a straight line?'

However, paired with leaders who are knockdown-resistant, armor which redirects punchthrough shots, or just simple enemy design tweaks like suggested in notionphil's thread, these would certainly be way more visible and effective changes. But until then, I can't see enemy AI as a priority over enemy design.

[Freeburn_Sage]

Perhaps getting notionphil in a thread is RNG based? Gotta go sacrifice 666 Corpus, brb. 

 

On another note, I kinda like this, but at the same time I feel like not too much would change. You can still kill enemies in fractions of seconds. Just because the bowling pins are lined up a different way, it won't make much difference when you can just send a nuke at them. That being said, I feel like this with a mixture of notionphil's enemy types and whatnot would seriously make this game fun again. 

[Kashiki]

I may not be notionphil, but I may know what he might say.

Something along the lines of "What good are intelligent enemies if they don't live long enough to use their newfound intelligence?"

 

Let's not forget that I'm pitching AI, not survivability just yet. I want to get people's opinion on the AI idea, first. Survivability is an issue that I'd like to tackle, but not before I'm able to flesh out everything.

 

 

This.

I read through the Grineer suggestions, and I'm all for having formations and squad-level tactics and immersive, interesting stuff like that... except my one big concern is crowd control. Mag's Pull, Banshee's Sonic Boom and even Excalibur's Slash Dash are all designed to completely negate enemy defenses like the ones you propose to enhance. Formations (AI?) are all well and good until someone discovers Metal Auger or Thunderbolt. These changes, for he most part, would be great if only they could be appreciated in the split second before a barrage of Shred-augmented Soma rounds tears through them, leaving players to wonder, 'was I just that lucky to catch them all in a straight line?'

However, paired with leaders who are knockdown-resistant, armor which redirects punchthrough shots, or just simple enemy design tweaks like suggested in notionphil's thread, these would certainly be way more visible and effective changes. But until then, I can't see enemy AI as a priority over enemy design.

 

Yes, the dangers of CC were not lost on me either. I'll take your suggestions into account.

 

Perhaps getting notionphil in a thread is RNG based? Gotta go sacrifice 666 Corpus, brb. 

 

On another note, I kinda like this, but at the same time I feel like not too much would change. You can still kill enemies in fractions of seconds. Just because the bowling pins are lined up a different way, it won't make much difference when you can just send a nuke at them. That being said, I feel like this with a mixture of notionphil's enemy types and whatnot would seriously make this game fun again. 

 

Notionphil's thread has gained the reputation it has because it's a good thread, I understand - I'm working on looking over his posts to see what I can add to my own. However, you can't just gloss over something with shiny enemy types and higher defenses, as well as just have some super smart AI - just having one or the other would be just as DE has it now.

 

God, notionphil, where are you, mate? I need you in here. Back to work!

[Kashiki]

Added some things for the Ancients in the AI. Just drafted ideas that will need some tweaking.

 

AI Improvements

Ancients

The Ancients, as of right now, are just beefers with an awesome aura. However, that aura and pull are almost unavoidable. If you get caught by an Ancient, 9/10 you're done if they are a Disrupter. Beyond this, they aren't really a threat unless they are Eximi - that's no fun, and they're still (relatively) easy to kill.

• All
  • Make their arm visible, using that as the way to catch you. This is said knowing that the hook is a placeholder. Make their pull ability slower as it flies at you.
  • Make the damage reduction values for their aura more noticeable.
  • Have a high resistance to knockdown 
• Infested Healers
  • Have the ability to revive dead allies, so long as their heal pulse happens before the bodies dissipate.
  • Their heal pulses heal health over time for all Infested units after the initial burst of health regen so long as the aura is over them.
  • Make their heal pulses generate a resistance to knockdown.

 

EDIT: DE, please give us the BBCode Editor option - tired of the bad list code formatting.

Edited August 25, 2014 by Kashiki

[Dragon_AV]

Don't forget hopping movement, 2 soldiers fire while other 2 reposition, then they open fire so the other guys can move and so on. High level squads could make effective use of covering fire, since their weapons do a lot of damage.

[unknow99]

And tactics should follow enemies levels.

 

Right now there's no difference between a normal Lancer & an elite one, except from the mask and the weapon.

[Kashiki]

And tactics should follow enemies levels.

 

Right now there's no difference between a normal Lancer & an elite one, except from the mask and the weapon.

 

That's an extremely good point.

 

Perhaps the Elite Lancers are the ones who have the ability to call reinforcements, as well as deploy the troops. If I wanted to go the notionphil route and talk about enemy durability, they should have noticeably higher levels of armor. I mean, they are "Elite".

[noveltyhero]

Suggestion:

Grineer -this is more of an addition to mechanics but ties into AI a lot

 

Every once in a while a squad get's placed in, this squad specializes in single target takedowns, similarly to the G3 (how they were intended, results are better though) but happens a little more often and is less dangerous.

 

Squad composed of:

(A)-1 Heavy Gunner

(B)-1 Heavy Gunner that provides a boost aura for his allies (10% more health, 5% more damage, 5% more movement speed) <-optional but I thought it was a nice touch, leader of squad and all

( C )-2 Lancers

(D)-4 Shield Lancers

(E)-1 Scorpion (does the hunting)

 

Formation:

 

__A__

_CBC_

__E__

DDDD

 

This squad will actively seek one person, moving in a very tight formation very quickly towards that target, if the target is down they move to another one. One by one

 

I am not sure how good is this or not but seems nice on paper

Edited September 1, 2014 by noveltyhero