Mirage Is So Unbalanced She Ruins The Game.

[saltshaker42]

Calm down, it can't be that serious. I've been playing MD missions casually, and I can't say I can even tell if someone else is a mirage. In fact, I as Volt do more killing than anybody else.

 

Nerfs will come, and you only need to be patient about it.

[atpbx1]

I am playing with Mirage almost exclusively at the minute.

 

Hall of mirrors is fine, what I am surprised about however is that DE let the Disco Ball Death Star out in to the wild, its fantastic

 

Its something that is far too much fun, and as such I expect it to be nerfed to Australia and back again in the near future.

Edited August 26, 2014 by atpbx1

[Kestral9999]

People saying "wait and see" are the same reason it took over a year for DE to get off their duffs and fix the ammo pool on launchers. It should not have taken that long, THIS should not take that long.

 

The fact that it doesn't work (as well) on higher level content is not a balance, either. It just means people will continue stomp all over low level missions with it, where newer players are. The ones who are generally more apt to leave. Because, once again, there IS no late game to keep people occupied, and separated from lowbie players.

 

Hall of Mirrors is busted and way too easy to take advantage of. Even if the damage is lower, the proc rates for status and aoe effects are orders of magnitude higher, since there are now 5 of you rng'ing. And don't even get me started on the system load it costs, welcome to lag-town. Or how about just how damn distracting having 10 foot wide wall of fire/lasers/rockets/explosions and shiney clones can be while everyone else is trying see what they're doing.

 

Also Toxic ancients are not a balance for Mirage either, if ANY warframe gets a toxic proc above level 25 they are dead, with how heavy those things proc anymore.

 

If you added Hall of Mirror's type of functionality to other frames you'd get this:

Rhino's: Iron Skin & Roar are rolled into one move that costs 25 energy, is now time based unlimited mitigation, and provided +100% damage and %100 status proc on all primary weapons. That should keep the kids from needing to spam Stomp...

 

Trinity's: Blessing now costs 25 energy, has 75% standard mitigation, buffs damage 100%, emits Pink Floyd Laser Light show the entire time

 

Nova's: Antimatter Drop creates wall of death 100 meters long 10 meters wide, that follows the player, plus damage mitigations, randomly DC's teammates

 

Ember's: World on Fire now costs 25 energy, turns player into Mirage

 

All other Frame's: See Ember changes..

 

Attica's and LSD will be handed out at the start of every mission. etc....

Someone is a big fan of hyperbole.

[MadHatHacker]

Nerf the Thunderbolt damage, and you're good to go. The reason the Mirage-Attica combo is so viable is because it relies on Thunderbolt to carpet bomb everything. The ability to shoot a max of 14 arrows at a time in a fully automatic mode that can all do multiple explosions (depending on punch-through) sounds pretty scary, yes. But, nerf the explosions, and you pretty much just nerfed the entire build.

So, yeah, deal with the Hall of Mirrors-Thunderbolt scaling, and you'll be forced to use the Attica as an actual weapon, as opposed to a method for generating Thunderbolt procs.

[RealPandemonium]

Pretty much every frame can run ahead of the rest of the group and wipe rooms before anyone can get close (unless teammates are also doing the same thing.)  This is not a Mirage-specific problem and she's not even close to the best at it anyway.  (Ever seen Miasma spam?)  

 

The only annoying thing about Thunderbolt spam is the screen shake, which we should be able to turn off on our end.

Edited August 26, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[Rakshal]

I was doing a melee only defense against infested when a Mirage with the Attica came along. Left after 5 waves, that is how little fun I was having. :/

[RealPandemonium]

I was doing a melee only defense against infested when a Mirage with the Attica came along. Left after 5 waves, that is how little fun I was having. :/

And anyone with any OP weapon or a 4-spammer would have ruined your fun way more than that Mirage.  The only thing that Mirage accomplished especially was shaking your screen annoyingly.  

[Dwarfstar]

why would you complain about a sucky gimmick frame?

what you're really complaining about is players who run obnoxious weapons with it, like attica, quanta, or any explosive.

there are plenty of matches to pick from. i just leave when players are being obnoxious. mirage isn't any different from speed spam aoe frames- like rhino, saryn, ember, or ash.

the issue with someone loading up on a clear-everything combo and then clearing everything, not letting you play, is not new, or exclusive to mirage.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Dwarfstar

[GTG3000]

I would like to point out that Mirage needs a bug fix.The maximum damage the holograms can achieve is 45.8% of yours, but this penalty doesn't apply to Thunderbolt.

 

Should this be fixed (it should), then the best you can hope for with Thunderbolt is 120 damage, which isn't much (all things considered).

Additionally, thanks to the ammo nerf on explosives, Pentogris spamming is less viable.

 

If we fixed everything that can obliterate level 30 enemies, nothing would be left in the game.

 

Thunderbolt only deals 250 damage, it's a non-issue. Barring explosive spam, Mirage is fairly balanced (seeing how other frames can clean out rooms as fast, if not faster in some cases). The only problem with her is that she's new, and that explosives are annoying to everyone else. Damn screenshake.

[fatpig84]

Bet you haven't since how fast mirages croak then, even against just low level 60 enemies.

She IMO even more glass than Nova.

 

Her HOM is an incredible AOE magnet making her downright the worst idea to bring in any mid or high level grineer map unless you have an extremely good baby sitter or a really on the ball Loki holding down his 4 button. Yes she can kill sh1t loads of enemies, but her HoM while powerful, makes her very vulnerable.

[RealPandemonium]

Bet you haven't since how fast mirages croak then, even against just low level 60 enemies.

She IMO even more glass than Nova.

 

Her HOM is an incredible AOE magnet making her downright the worst idea to bring in any mid or high level grineer map unless you have an extremely good baby sitter or a really on the ball Loki holding down his 4 button. Yes she can kill sh1t loads of enemies, but her HoM while powerful, makes her very vulnerable.

HoM has the opposite effect.  It decreases the chance that you will be targeted by enemy attacks as your clones take aggro in your stead.  Any time your clone is targeted by an explosive odds are you would have been the target of the explosive instead, so it doesn't make any more explosions come your way than would have otherwise; if anything, it makes the explosive easier to dodge because its trajectory is not centered on your position.  HoM combines with Eclipse and Prism to make Mirage one of the safest warframes.  Mirages that drop like flies in higher level content are just poor players (who are likely accustomed to using gameplay-eliminating CC or invulnerability button abilities from other frames.)

[Loveshack]

The only thing I really hate about Mirage is her effect on FPS  :(

The fact her #1 power scales so much better than other frames is also a bit disheartening.

[RealPandemonium]

The only thing I really hate about Mirage is her effect on FPS  :(

The fact her #1 power scales so much better than other frames is also a bit disheartening.

Her 2 and 3 are completely situational, though.  1 is powerful without being too powerful.  Which number is assigned to the ability should not create an expectation of the ability's power.

[fatpig84]

HoM has the opposite effect.  It decreases the chance that you will be targeted by enemy attacks as your clones take aggro in your stead.  Any time your clone is targeted by an explosive odds are you would have been the target of the explosive instead, so it doesn't make any more explosions come your way than would have otherwise; if anything, it makes the explosive easier to dodge because its trajectory is not centered on your position.  HoM combines with Eclipse and Prism to make Mirage one of the safest warframes.  Mirages that drop like flies in higher level content are just poor players (who are likely accustomed to using gameplay-eliminating CC or invulnerability button abilities from other frames.)

 

Definitely not against Napalms. A bigger target is STILL a bigger target, if the Napalm happens to hit the wall where your Mirror is there, you still die either way. Never mind that we have a host of other Eximus and their AOE abilites.

 

Max damage Mirages (IE blind rage + narrow minded stackers) tend to only run 2 skills, HOM + Eclipse. Because there aren't any other slots available left open. And they do only 1 thing, maximize damage. So hiding in shadows is the last thing they will ever do. 

They maximize their stats to kill, not to survive. I know of a few who use QT + Rage + flow + vitality to compensate, but ultimately she is still extremely fragile.

 

As for using Prism, Mirage is poor as a CC frame, even with Natural Talent. She is at best comparable to Excal using RB WITHOUT Natural Talent. The conflicting nature of her skills make her an unreliable CC frame as blind requires Overextended and Stretch for maximum effect. But this heavily weakens her killing power and durability with Eclipse. The use of narrow minded which further kills off the range of her blind. 

 

 

But I can agree with you on one thing, if you built her as a jack of all trades, she is indeed a very safe frame.

Fast blinding with a nice range and decent damage etc. But if you are going to specialize, that is where her fatal flaws start to show.

Edited August 26, 2014 by fatpig84

[Oriviagene]

What's wrong with killing enemies faster? :o

If I were u I'll just sit and let dat mirage kills everything while I got free xp,same goes with nova :/

[Rakshal]

What's wrong with killing enemies faster? :o

If I were u I'll just sit and let dat mirage kills everything while I got free xp,same goes with nova :/

It makes the game boring. :/

[taiiat]

At least Nova is actually a glass cannon.

 

Also, kills from Hall of Mirrors have their xp go mainly towards the Warframe and not the weapons.

screwing them out of proper xp rewards for even bothering to play along with them.

-

 

- kills from any means by another player awards the 3 other Players Shared XP. it's distributed the same way regardless of how your Allies kill something, it's still Shared XP. which the last i recall was 40% of the value is Shared.

 

and Shared XP is evenly distributed. which is why when levelling a bunch of things at the same time it's the Meta to let other people kill things for you. you get more XP to all of the items that way. all of the items get maximum XP.

 

 

Edit:

Disclaimer: anti tinfoil hat statement - i'm not condoning the way that some of Mirage's Powers work, or work with certain Weapons.

Edited August 26, 2014 by taiiat

[taiiat]

Nerf the Thunderbolt damage, and you're good to go.

eek, Thunderbolt is barely usable as it is. if we were going to go this route, i'd rather Thunderbolt just not apply to the Clones. the 250 Damage @ a 30% Chance that Thunderbolt is makes it barely niche as it is, when the direct impact from the Weapons that can Equip Thunderbolt easily deal several thousand Damage and can hit rows of Enemies, while Thunderbolt deals 250 at Point of Impact and fallsoff from there. it does have a radius, but most Enemies will be taking like, only double digit Damage.

 

(also, where's my plain text editor so i can actually add on to posts, WYSIWYG is Cancer in a box :/)

Edited August 26, 2014 by taiiat

[RealPandemonium]

Definitely not against Napalms. A bigger target is STILL a bigger target, if the Napalm happens to hit the wall where your Mirror is there, you still die either way. Never mind that we have a host of other Eximus and their AOE abilites.

 

Max damage Mirages (IE blind rage + narrow minded stackers) tend to only run 2 skills, HOM + Eclipse. Because there aren't any other slots available left open. And they do only 1 thing, maximize damage. So hiding in shadows is the last thing they will ever do. 

They maximize their stats to kill, not to survive. I know of a few who use QT + Rage + flow + vitality to compensate, but ultimately she is still extremely fragile.

 

As for using Prism, Mirage is poor as a CC frame, even with Natural Talent. She is at best comparable to Excal using RB WITHOUT Natural Talent. The conflicting nature of her skills make her an unreliable CC frame as blind requires Overextended and Stretch for maximum effect. But this heavily weakens her killing power and durability with Eclipse. The use of narrow minded which further kills off the range of her blind. 

 

 

But I can agree with you on one thing, if you built her as a jack of all trades, she is indeed a very safe frame.

Fast blinding with a nice range and decent damage etc. But if you are going to specialize, that is where her fatal flaws start to show.

Napalms will shoot the nearest/highest threat level target.  If it's just you, it will target you.  If it's you + 4 clones, it will target one of the 5 targets.  If someone else is closer or there is a decoy/molt/Absorb (etc.) around, it will shoot that instead.  The most HoM might do is one of the clones drawing the Napalm's attention from slightly farther away (2m) than normal.  Whether you use HoM or not, the only thing that prevents you from taking napalm shots is your awareness and reactions. HoM will not increase the number of incoming shots.

 

Maxing Narrow Minded and Blind Rage is almost always a bad idea.  Most of the time Narrow minded only needs to be leveled such that a Stretch nullifies its downside (rank 6.) Blind Rage also usually shouldn't be upgraded beyond rank 2 to use up the extra 15% efficiency that max FE and Streamline give.  The reason not to max out these two mods is because abilities can be recast frequently enough at high levels of efficiency that their downsides outweigh their benefits past those ranks I mentioned (this also saves  on mod capacity, increasing build flexibility.)  

 

Prism's CC is both powerful (blind renders enemies helpless) and safe (it can be triggered remotely and has a huge radius.)  I run a rank 6 Narrow Minded on my Mirage and the range is still tremendous; more than enough to trivialize any content (including T4s.)  

 

Also, Excalibur's Radial Blind has plenty of range with just Stretch.  Overextended is overkill and neuters Super Jump needlessly.  

 

 

- kills from any means by another player awards the 3 other Players Shared XP. it's distributed the same way regardless of how your Allies kill something, it's still Shared XP. which the last i recall was 40% of the value is Shared.

100% of it is shared.  If you see 800 that means that your frame got 200, primary 200, secondary 200, and melee 200.  If you dont have one or more equipped then that XP is divided among the equipment you do have with you.  

Edited August 26, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[taiiat]

100% of it is shared.  If you see 800 that means that your frame got 200, primary 200, secondary 200, and melee 200.  If you dont have one or more equipped then that XP is divided among the equipment you do have with you.  

that sounds more correct.

[Vallerian]

I personally dont really see anything game breaking when I play as or play with a Mirage. I think more of the problem is that you use OP weapons and her clones do half the damage effectively making you OP weapons more OP, Mirage dosnt need a rework, the OP weapons need a balance pass.

 

Mirage is one hell of a glass cannon aswell, One toxic ancient gets the jump on you you go down in a second.  

True, but then again so do a lot of other frames who don't get the same damage output as Mirage =P

[RealPandemonium]

True, but then again so do a lot of other frames who don't get the same damage output as Mirage =P

People need to 1) Get Good and 2) invest in Health Restore blueprints.

Edited August 26, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[MSD3000]

People saying that Napalms are an issue have obviously never heard of the Flame Repellent mod. And I pity your lack of "gud". Now that fire is 60% out of the equation, yes Mirage is harder to kill than other glass cannon frames.

Either way, being vulnerable to only ONE type of enemy doesn't mean a Frame is easy to kill, anymore than you could argue that Zepher isn't nearly immune to grineer and corpus thanks to Turbulence, because Toxic ancients can still kill her.

 

While it's true that Hall of Mirrors broked'ness is only more noticeable the better and cheaper your weapons are, it's still a major problem when the games purpose is about finding the cheapest and most OP weapon at the moment.

 

To those who think I either havent played Mirage, or am somehow "jealous". I got her day 1, leveled her, forma'd, leveled again and played her for about a week solid before dropping her for being boring as hell. Her current setup is nothing but "press 1 every few seconds", aim in general direction of enemy, press 4 every now and then for effect, win, zzzzzz.

 

At the very least, her moves should be shuffled around to make HoM her 4, with 75-100 energy cost, to make it less "always on" and more situational. Move her Disco ball to 3, and 50 (+5 sec), to make it more desirable to use. Eclipse is 2, with 25 energy cost, of the things that would be more balanced as "always on", Eclipse is it. And SoH should be 1, with only 10 energy cost, rock bottom energy cost would allow people to experiment with it more and get better at it, maybe becoming as situationally useful as power jump on Excal.

 

Those changes wouldn't solve the problem outright, because the issue goes waaaay deeper than just one power. But it would at least encourage players to use her whole host of powers as intended, and not abuse 1 move just because it's the "Obvious" reason to use the Frame.

[Mesyra]

the only issue I have with mirage is that my 760 gtx and AMD FX 8 core cant keep 60 FPS solid with one in the cell unless I'm host.

 

other than that I could care less. it looks silly when someone is using Phage and has 5 different tentacle guns tickling the infested.

[BrazilianJoe]

Hall of mirrors is beyond OP. 

 

I'd have it work in a different way:

 

Hall of mirrors would spawn 2 Mirages, one at the left and one at the right. They would always be oriented to the warframe's left and right, and would move accordingly. 

 

Power upgrade would increase damage output, but also upkeep. 

 

It would be a toggle-enable ability, with a 25 activation cost and would continually suck energy while it's activated. 

 

Higher power levels would increase the energy drain.