The Vauban Condition - (Aka Paywall)

[StinkyPygmy]

Ur missing the point, the argument here is not that its hard or time-consuming, its that ithe system that the blueprints are distributed its stupid. Ppl spent months on it, just because its hard TO COME BY. How is time vs money when there is no standar way to actually spend ur time on it?

 

 

The ones that want this to be a fanboy-whospendsalldayplaying exclusive OBVIOUSLY did. Ppl who spent months working on it mostly agree that the distribution system 1+ year after its release must change.

Source for that last line please OP.

Its random. Just deal with it.

Because getting hostile isn't helping your case or argument.

Your only supporting evidence is that 'some people agree with me and I am angry, this is stupid'

 

Its just making me want to throw you some cheese and crackers to go with your whine.

Edited August 26, 2014 by StinkyPygmy

[vaugahn]

Ur missing the point, the argument here is not that its hard or time-consuming, its that ithe system that the blueprints are distributed its stupid. Ppl spent months on it, just because its hard TO COME BY. How is time vs money when there is no standar way to actually spend ur time on it?

 

Uh, there is. Just play. The alerts come up frequently enough that even with casual amounts of playtime you'll get him within a month or two. I don't play regularly and I work during the day, and it only took me 2 months to get him. The whole point of the system is that Vauban is supposed to be an advanced, hard-to-obtain frame.

 

The ones that want this to be a fanboy-whospendsalldayplaying exclusive OBVIOUSLY did. Ppl who spent months working on it mostly agree that the distribution system 1+ year after its release must change.

 

Do you have proof of that? Because everyone I know got Vauban through alerts, and I've never heard a single complaint.

 

Oh and as for the event mods: they all come back, there's no point complaining. Also, when events happen they're up for several days. They're hard to miss. 

[StinkyPygmy]

They are pre-released so a few ppl get them + then the rest buy plat to give it to the "lucky" ones that were not on vacation or working when the even happened. The only one actually profiting is the DE.

 

How can something that can only be bypassed with seer luck not be a paywall? Skill+hard work is the way f2p games are supposed to be playable. The only valid argument I heard in this post is working ur way to the 300 plat by selling stuff to other players, however I still find it really bad for the DE to play such tricks to get money.

Have you ever played any online game? Tonnes of events have temporary exclusives. Its not exclusive to WF. The only issue is your patients to wait.

I Missed out on all the event mods except breeding grounds and what do you know, now cicero mods are available. Lucky me.

Sorry OP but your argument isn't holding water. A pay wall is when you must pay to enjoy the other 90% of content.

Not Bad luck with RNG.

Do you know how many alerts time zones have screwed me out of? A lot.

I just deal with it and move on. You're jumping at shadows with your DE conspiracy theories. 

Let me get my tinfoil hat ready.

Edited August 26, 2014 by StinkyPygmy

[StainPain]

You can look the rest of the topic or google the words "vauban warframe allert" and see the related results. Ur having 1062 posts and u want to say to me that u never seen ppl agree with how the system is stupid? I think ur the one that needs to support ur arguments better and stop lying to make ur case.

 

Its just making me want to throw you some cheese and crackers to go with your whine.

 

Who's getting hostile now? I only defended myself to ppl like u attacking me directly because I voiced my opinion. Ofc im mad and furstarted and this thread is the result of that. However I give reasons and don't throw tantrums like ur implying, I will obviously get "hostile" to ppl that are hostile to me for no apparent reason. if u like the current system why even bother posting here?

[StainPain]

Have you ever played any online game? Tonnes of events have temporary exclusives. Its not exclusive to WF. The only issue is your patients to wait.

I Missed out on all the event mods except breeding grounds and what do you know, now cicero mods are available. Lucky me.

Sorry OP but your argument isn't holding water. A pay wall is when you must pay to enjoy the other 90% of content.

Not Bad luck with RNG.

Do you know how many alerts time zones have screwed me out of? A lot.

I just deal with it and move on. You're jumping at shadows with your DE conspiracy theories. 

Let me get my tinfoil hat ready.

 

 

I think it will be better to read the whole post before trying to attack me directly. That's IF u can understand whats written here because from what I see ur either twisting my arguments or not understand them. Either way I have no intention to keep answering u. If u like the current system then feel free to make a post on how smart and nice it is, I dont get why you are here attacking me...

[StinkyPygmy]

You can look the rest of the topic or google the words "vauban warframe allert" and see the related results. Ur having 1062 posts and u want to say to me that u never seen ppl agree with how the system is stupid? I think ur the one that needs to support ur arguments better and stop lying to make ur case.

 

 

Who's getting hostile now? I only defended myself to ppl like u attacking me directly because I voiced my opinion. Ofc im mad and furstarted and this thread is the result of that. However I give reasons and don't throw tantrums like ur implying, I will obviously get "hostile" to ppl that are hostile to me for no apparent reason. if u like the current system why even bother posting here?

I didn't say I've never seen people agree. Read my post. I said some people, and some people thinking its unfair is still 100% opinion based. 

Pages on google isn't really an argument OP...

I only ever saw you get hostile first, and honestly my sarcasm isn't exactly insulting and aggressive. Especially considering how you're acting.

Sorry but if all your argument boils down to is "I'm angry and impatient, I should get what I want now and your all stupid paying fanboys" then there isn't really anything more that needs to be said.

You haven't given really given much of and argument to discuss or provided me with any evidence to make much of a supporting case. 

I'm out before this gets more inflamed.

 

Edit: honestly if you think that my mild sarcasm is attacking you then you must be rather sensitive. I never once insulted you OP. I've seen you do just that to everyone else here though. Curious.

Edited August 26, 2014 by StinkyPygmy

[StainPain]

I didn't say I've never seen people agree. Read my post. I said some people, and some people thinking its unfair is still 100% opinion based. 

Pages on google isn't really an argument OP...

I only ever saw you get hostile first, and honestly my sarcasm isn't exactly insulting and aggressive. Especially considering how you're acting.

Sorry but if all your argument boils down to is "I'm angry and impatient, I should get what I want now and your all stupid paying fanboys" then there isn't really anything more that needs to be said.

You haven't given really given much of and argument to discuss or provided me with any evidence to make much of a supporting case. 

I'm out before this gets more inflamed.

 

Edit: honestly if you think that my mild sarcasm is attacking you then you must be rather sensitive. I never once insulted you OP. I've seen you do just that to everyone else here though. Curious.

 

Pages on reddit, gamefaqs and warframe forums (The links provided by google) are highly relevant to the matter, ill say again as written in the first post, again in the middle and again now (thats why I guess U didn't take the time to read everything) I completely agree in supporting the DE (there would be no game if no one did), I have gave more money than I should have in this game (I wont disclose the number but believe me its more than enough), however I wont give money if im forced  like that in a supposedly f2p game. I never said that paying=fanboy. I said that ppl who come here to insult me for no reason are. Ur just trying to force your opinion on me using "mild sarcasm" and that's not ok, neither is an argument (the same thing u say  I'm lacking) so u can see how I'm not happy with it...

Edited August 26, 2014 by StainPain

[vaugahn]

Pages on reddit, gamefaqs and warframe forums (The links provided by google) are highly relevant to the matter, ill say again as written in the first post, again in the middle and again now (thats why I guess U didn't take the time to read everything) I completely agree in supporting the DE (there would be no game if no one did), I have gave more money than I should have in this game (I wont disclose the number but believe me its more than enough), however I wont give money if im forced  like that in a supposedly f2p game. I never said that paying=fanboy. I said that ppl who come here to insult me for no reason are. Ur just trying to force your opinion on me using "mild sarcasm" and that's not ok, neither is an argument (the same thing u say  I'm lacking) so u can see how I'm not happy with it...

First off, you've called everyone who disagrees with you names all throughout this thread.

Second, nobody is forcing you to buy Vauban. Nobody. And when you forum search "vauban alert", pretty much all the threads that come up are from the alert forum about vauban alerts that are up.

Third, you've yet to present any sort of argument.

[Tsukinoki]

@OP
Please stop pulling out the "Vauban is a Paywall" argument when thats completely false.
Here is the definition of paywall:

Paywall: 

An arrangement whereby access is restricted to users who have paid

Now, I know a lot of people (including myself) who got Vauban completely for free from the alerts.
So that breaks the definition of paywall as that proves that Vauban is not restricted to users who have paid

So lets move past that 'argument' as it has already been soundly destroyed.

Second, stop claiming that you are being "forced" to pay DE in order to get Vauban.
Because you aren't.
They aren't twisting your arm, they aren't holding a gun to your head, and they aren't preventing you from getting Vauban without paying.
So, no, you are not being forced to buy Vauban.

The only thing that has happened is you are getting impatient and whinging about how you haven't gotten him near instantly.
So what?
He is a *very* small percentage of the content in the game.
And if you had some patience you would be able to get him quite easily.

Third, when I search "Vauban Alert" most of the results that come up are talking about Vauban pieces that have just appeared in an alert.
Very few of them are complaint threads.

Fourth, please present an actual argument, not just whinging.  And provide something that backs it up other than "Im angry at this so its bad!"

And finally, please stop insulting the people that disagree with you.
It becomes hard to take you seriously at any level when all you're doing is insulting everyone else in the thread and trying to play the victim.
You aren't a victim, so stop trying to claim you are.

[Kestral9999]

Getting Vauban is hardly an advantage.

Or a necessity for that matter. Like Rhino, he turns the game into easy mode even if you don't really mod him properly. Otherwise he's way overpowered.

[StainPain]

First off, you've called everyone who disagrees with you names all throughout this thread.

Second, nobody is forcing you to buy Vauban. Nobody. And when you forum search "vauban alert", pretty much all the threads that come up are from the alert forum about vauban alerts that are up.

Third, you've yet to present any sort of argument.

I called ppl names??? Where and when? Plz quote those "names"

 

I never said I was forced, however vauban does a specific job (was designed for it) and if u want to do that that U have no reliable way of getting it except selling stuff for that 300 plat.

 

What arguments exactly u want on what matter? The original post has my opinion in it as well as my arguments. The purpose of it is

1. To state them

2. Ppl who agree to comment on them possessively

3. Ppl who dont agree to comment on them negatively

4. Alternatives to be suggested

 

What else do u want? My problem here is that I dont want fanboys (yeah that's the one thing I said - to noone specifically) to stop forcing their opinions on mine. What dont u understand?

[Kestral9999]

I like having the right tool for the right job. Thats what he is, I uderstand that many ppl might not like him however that doesnt mean I should not be able to get him. Whats the point then? When I realized that the allerts are completely random (its not that hard to put a SCHEDULE smth like 1 part per week every friday or so) and that I havent seen a vauban bp the whole time that I play this game (relatievely new player) it was a huge let down on this game for me.

 

EDIT- Also this is the classic attitute of someone who already has him, played him and already got bored of him. Its obvious no frame/game can keep u happy forever. At a time u were eager to get him, u either got lucky or spent way more hours that u should have on waiting...

His blueprint is a login reward. That's why.

 

PS he's not half as hard to get as you're making him seem. I have my already built one, and two completely full BP's which I plan to keep until we are able to trade regular Warframe parts. I didn't even go that far out of my way to get him. Vauban is a test of patience, of which it seems you are lacking. I truly mean no offense, but you're relatively new and want one of the endgame Warframes to be easier to attain, there are reasons that Vauban is as "hard" to get as he is. It prevents the game from being flooded by new users running Vauban and spamming Bounce to be funny. Same reason he's as expensive as he is.

 

It's less that he's hard to get and more that it takes a fair amount of time and either dedicated playing or having an alerts app so you can keep up to date. Wish they'd announce alerts ahead of time on the app for phones admittedly, so I can be sure to have free time when I need it.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Kestral9999

[vaugahn]

I called ppl names??? Where and when? Plz quote those "names"

 

I never said I was forced, however vauban does a specific job (was designed for it) and if u want to do that that U have no reliable way of getting it except selling stuff for that 300 plat.

 

What arguments exactly u want on what matter? The original post has my opinion in it as well as my arguments. The purpose of it is

1. To state them

2. Ppl who agree to comment on them possessively

3. Ppl who dont agree to comment on them negatively

4. Alternatives to be suggested

 

What else do u want? My problem here is that I dont want fanboys (yeah that's the one thing I said - to noone specifically) to stop forcing their opinions on mine. What dont u understand?

 

Here, let's try this one for starters:

 

Damn my post got flooded by sore "veteran" donators attacking me (as I predicted) ppl who already have him (obviously most payed for it), will look down on me with wrath for DARING to complain. Get a god damn life and stop attacking ppl in random posts.

 

Pretty much all of your posts have an attack directed at someone in them.

 

Also, let's not mistake an actual argument for whining. All you've said so far is that you're angry because you can't get Vauban fast. That's whining. Every reason you've given has been absolute nonsense, and if anyone calls you out on it you jump straight to attacking.

[(PSN)Strifedecer]

The rest of the game is pretty darn good. Plus the game isn't P2W.

Let the devs get their dough man.

[StainPain]

 

@OP

Please stop pulling out the "Vauban is a Paywall" argument when thats completely false.

Here is the definition of paywall:

 

Now, I know a lot of people (including myself) who got Vauban completely for free from the alerts.

So that breaks the definition of paywall as that proves that Vauban is not restricted to users who have paid

So lets move past that 'argument' as it has already been soundly destroyed.

Second, stop claiming that you are being "forced" to pay DE in order to get Vauban.

Because you aren't.

They aren't twisting your arm, they aren't holding a gun to your head, and they aren't preventing you from getting Vauban without paying.

So, no, you are not being forced to buy Vauban.

The only thing that has happened is you are getting impatient and whinging about how you haven't gotten him near instantly.

So what?

He is a *very* small percentage of the content in the game.

And if you had some patience you would be able to get him quite easily.

Third, when I search "Vauban Alert" most of the results that come up are talking about Vauban pieces that have just appeared in an alert.

Very few of them are complaint threads.

Fourth, please present an actual argument, not just whinging.  And provide something that backs it up other than "Im angry at this so its bad!"

And finally, please stop insulting the people that disagree with you.

It becomes hard to take you seriously at any level when all you're doing is insulting everyone else in the thread and trying to play the victim.

You aren't a victim, so stop trying to claim you are.

 

 

"paywalls are used to bring in extra revenue for companies by charging for online content"

 

Although the word might not been optimally used in this case it is relevant.

 

I dont get why ur trying to suggest that in some way I said that if u dont get Vauban u cant progress the game, its just an important piece of the game that it's very hard to access unless u pay.

 

Ive played countless mmo's, unfortunately spent hundreds of hours in "crafting", "enchanting" ech... my argument is that this is not skill-work-grind based, its just a stupid system to give it away for free at random times.

 

Why do u ppl say I said that if u look for "vauban allert" in the wf forums u will find posts supporting mine? Plz quote me if I said that and ill shut it.

I simply stated that if u google on the matter u will find posts in relevant forums supporting both sides of the argument (so in extension my side of the argument...).

 

Again, why should I present an argument when I already did? On what? I must argue why I keep having that opinion? what is this a philosophical discussion?

[Tsukinoki]

Also another thing I want to part with:
Your idea that:

(its not that hard to put a SCHEDULE smth like 1 part per week every friday or so)

Has one big flaw:
Which timezone do yous schedule it for?
And what happens when you're not in that timezone for the week?
And what about in countries where Friday isn't the end of the work week?

The only way to be fair about alerts like Vauban is to keep them as random as any other alerts.  Otherwise you open up a whole new can of worms.

And honestly, how much would you be complaining when it takes it a month or so so that a single part (and probably not even the part that you want) is available at a time you are available to play?
As it is, it is infinitely more likely to give everyone a fair shot at it than your idea.

[Kestral9999]

"paywalls are used to bring in extra revenue for companies by charging for online content"

 

So, by that definition, literally everything on the market is a paywall?

 

No, sir. You are redefining terms to suit your own ends. Something for which I have no mercy nor tolerance.

 

Paywalls are put in place so that certain features of games cannot be accessed without paying for them with ingame currency purchased or valued along side real world money. If that feature's purchase  can be subverted through grinding or attained for free in any way, it is not a paywall and you need to edit the title of this thread and your posts accordingly.

 

Vauban is not in any way even close to a paywall exclusive.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Kestral9999

[vaugahn]

"paywalls are used to bring in extra revenue for companies by charging for online content"

 

Although the word might not been optimally used in this case it is relevant.

 

I dont get why ur trying to suggest that in some way I said that if u dont get Vauban u cant progress the game, its just an important piece of the game that it's very hard to access unless u pay.

 

Ive played countless mmo's, unfortunately spent hundreds of hours in "crafting", "enchanting" ech... my argument is that this is not skill-work-grind based, its just a stupid system to give it away for free at random times.

 

Why do u ppl say I said that if u look for "vauban allert" in the wf forums u will find posts supporting mine? Plz quote me if I said that and ill shut it.

I simply stated that if u google on the matter u will find posts in relevant forums supporting both sides of the argument (so in extension my side of the argument...).

 

Again, why should I present an argument when I already did? On what? I must argue why I keep having that opinion? what is this a philosophical discussion?

 

Except Vauban is not hard to access for free, and he's not a very important part of the game, and he's not behind a paywall, and you did say to look for "vauban alert" to find posts supporting you right here:

 

You can look the rest of the topic or google the words "vauban warframe allert" and see the related results. Ur having 1062 posts and u want to say to me that u never seen ppl agree with how the system is stupid? I think ur the one that needs to support ur arguments better and stop lying to make ur case.

 

You've not presented an argument. So far all you've given us is anger, insults, and inaccurate statements about the nature of the game.

[StainPain]

 

Pretty much all of your posts have an attack directed at someone in them.

 

Also, let's not mistake an actual argument for whining. All you've said so far is that you're angry because you can't get Vauban fast. That's whining. Every reason you've given has been absolute nonsense, and if anyone calls you out on it you jump straight to attacking.

 

Again NO DIRECT insult to anyone, you will obviously get mad when ppl try to force their opinions using sarcasm and calling u names (impatient, noob ech."  when U just made an argument on some things u dont like.

 

I'm more than happy to see ppl trying to suggest ways past this, and sharing their experience, however with this gaming community that seems to be the 10% max. The rest are "smart" cookies like u  beeing "mildly sarcastic" to someone who is newer to the game and DARES to state his opinion on things he doesn't like.

 

Also to ppl who insist that Vauban is an "advanced, endgame warframe" and I'm impatient. I dont get how is this true when he doesn't even have a minimum limit on the rank that someone needs to be when he purchases him.

 

The one and only argument  I used all along is that its stupid not to have a CONSISTENT way of getting him. I would not mind low drop-rates, neither something like the Hydro warframe, or Nekros with a specifically harder way on getting them. THAT'S what defines end-game content and NOT a random easy mode event.

[Sinistro6]

I remember when Vauban came out. Back in "the old days", Endless Defense was the ONLY form of "endgame". The only real challenge the game presented was getting past Wave 50 on Xini, A single lvl 100 Toxic Ancient could instagib the pod just by dying near it.

 

Vauban was then regarded as "Godframe".

 

For obvious reasons, everybody wanted him. I could have paid for him, but alas, I had already decided never to buy any stuff I could farm for free (yes, after realizing I spent too much plat on mundane stuff). Boy, was I in for a hell of a frustrating waiting game.

 

You must realize we're talking about the OLD Alert system. In the old system, everything was random. EVERYTHING. Most veterans remember these days as "the great potato famine".

 

Vauban, of course, was amidst all these RNG chaos. After he was officially released, it took THREE WEEKS for the first part to show up on an Alert. I got Android apps, and even recruited some RL friends that had different work schedules than I to help keep watch. Some weird late-hours alarm buzzes after, I had him.

 

So, is the system equally fair and just for every player in every timezone? Nope. Is it a paywall scam from the greedy milk oozing from DE's devs to suck you dry of every dollar you have? Definitely nope.

 

Vauban IS hard to get. So are other frames. Others are easy. It's just how it is, wether you like it or not.

[StainPain]

No, sir. You are redefining terms to suit your own ends. Something for which I have no mercy nor tolerance.

 

I guess Thesauruswill be mad with me... 0 tolerance right?

 

I guess I have to be more exact because this isn't a laughing matter, its 100% serious.

 

You've not presented an argument. So far all you've given us is anger, insults, and inaccurate statements about the nature of the game.

 

Again and again I will ask, what more do u want? I stated my opinion, provided what led me to it. What else do u want? An academic analysis why after all this time after its release vauban should have been easier to access and its not?

[AsianLyf]

If you were looking for a paywall to complain about, its should be directed to Excalibur Prime (when it was still obtainable), because the only way you could have gotten it was by buying the bundle for it. 

[dzxbeast]

"paywalls are used to bring in extra revenue for companies by charging for online content"

 

Although the word might not been optimally used in this case it is relevant.

 

I dont get why ur trying to suggest that in some way I said that if u dont get Vauban u cant progress the game, its just an important piece of the game that it's very hard to access unless u pay.

 

there. you said it yourself. hard. not impossible. so that means you agree, that getting him without paying is possible. so it is not a paywall.

 

and you said yourself, that he is not needed to progress in the game. that, again, means he is not a paywall.

 

so all you do is complain and whine, even to the point were you contradict yourself

[vaugahn]

Again NO DIRECT insult to anyone, you will obviously get mad when ppl try to force their opinions using sarcasm and calling u names (impatient, noob ech."  when U just made an argument on some things u dont like.

 

I'm more than happy to see ppl trying to suggest ways past this, and sharing their experience, however with this gaming community that seems to be the 10% max. The rest are "smart" cookies like u  beeing "mildly sarcastic" to someone who is newer to the game and DARES to state his opinion on things he doesn't like.

 

Also to ppl who insist that Vauban is an "advanced, endgame warframe" and I'm impatient. I dont get how is this true when he doesn't even have a minimum limit on the rank that someone needs to be when he purchases him.

 

The one and only argument  I used all along is that its stupid not to have a CONSISTENT way of getting him. I would not mind low drop-rates, neither something like the Hydro warframe, or Nekros with a specifically harder way on getting them. THAT'S what defines end-game content and NOT a random easy mode event.

 

An insult is an insult whether it's directed at a specific person or not. When confronted with logic, you turn directly to attacking. That's not a sign of a solid position.

 

And many endgame items do not have mastery requirements. Vauban is advanced and endgame because he's harder to get than other frames, just like how a Boltor prime is still endgame even though it's only MR2. We don't even have a proper endgame. Vauban is very powerful, so he's hard to get. That's how it's supposed to work.

 

We do have a consistent way of getting him. Perhaps one day he'll be moved to proxy war quests or the new tactical alerts, but the current system is generally reliable. The alerts aren't totally random, that's been fixed since his release. You will see a full set around once a month. You are impatient, and your anger only exacerbates the situation.

 

I'm out. This thread is going nowhere fast.

[StainPain]

there. you said it yourself. hard. not impossible. so that means you agree, that getting him without paying is possible. so it is not a paywall.

 

and you said yourself, that he is not needed to progress in the game. that, again, means he is not a paywall.

 

so all you do is complain and whine, even to the point were you contradict yourself

Its an 100% "soft" paywall, thats the definition if u want it exact and thats why I said that simply characterizing it as paywall is not the best choice. I never said its impossible for everyone, just for ppl that are not available for gaming many hours a day (aka casual players).

 

If you were looking for a paywall to complain about, its should be directed to Excalibur Prime (when it was still obtainable), because the only way you could have gotten it was by buying the bundle for it. 

thats what I hate about this game, u said it! however Excalibur is kinda of a cosmetic update since normal Excalibur with forma is pretty close exept from the looks.

 

EDIT-

 

I'm out. This thread is going nowhere fast.

YAY! Thank you!

Edited August 26, 2014 by StainPain