Trinity Is Very Awkward To Mod Now. Please Revise Blessing And Link.

[StinkyPygmy]

That's fine. I'll just play Rhino like everyone else.

Well thats just boring.

Add one more rhino to the fold I guess...

Edited August 27, 2014 by StinkyPygmy

[FaintestAura]

That's fine. I'll just play Rhino like everyone else.

 

That is a great shame. Trinity is in a good place right now. 3/4 abilities are useful in various respects. If this doesn't convince you then thats quite sad. 

[Calayne]

Hmm, I think you're a returning player, aren't you?

 

You've got pretty impressive command of the English language. However, I'd definitely recommend not inciting the other forum members. They're simply providing feedback to your feedback, and when this topic was raging many months before, a lot of the main concerns were already addressed.

 

The reason why Trinity is now considered a reactionary frame is because of her Blessing. However, to compensate the loss of permanent invincibility for upwards of half a minute, she now has the ability to cast much faster, and mid-air. Furthermore, her Energy Vampire is now almost guaranteed to pay you back your energy cost, assuming you're within range of the affected enemy, even if they're killed immediately after the skill is cast.

 

If you haven't given her a long enough time to warm up to you, I suggest you don't judge her too harshly. She's a mellow young lady who just wants to help. 

 

I personally prefer her now as she is, and I'm on Trinity every time I'm in a group setting. The reactionary element is what makes using her so exciting, personally speaking. 

 

Regardless, if you dislike her role as a support class, which involves the careful monitoring of your team's status, then perhaps that play-style isn't meant for you. Rhino may suit your needs more, considering he's immune to knock-down while Iron Skin is active. If you'd like to consider still using Trinity, combining Well of Life with a full duration Blessing, Link and a good sense of timing will still get you very far. 

 

If you're still keen on continuing the discussion, I highly recommend you suggest some constructive feedback, at least, and start anew. Let the previous conversations be water under the bridge. The game has changed immensely, after all, and clinging to the old ways of playing may not be the most constructive; The game moves on, new mechanics are introduced, game-breaking utilities are changed, and life goes on.

 

It's only a game, friend. Don't hate on your fellow Tenno just for that.

[Synthua]

Hmm, I think you're a returning player, aren't you?

 

You've got pretty impressive command of the English language. However, I'd definitely recommend not inciting the other forum members. They're simply providing feedback to your feedback, and when this topic was raging many months before, a lot of the main concerns were already addressed.

 

"Feedback to feedback" is not a thing. Usually feedback to games in beta is done in confidential forms that go directly to the company's quality assurance desk and not in a forum of open opinion like this. Shouting people down for taking the time to share their experience with a product instead of uninstalling it quietly is counterproductive and quite frankly disgusting.

 

The reason why Trinity is now considered a reactionary frame is because of her Blessing. However, to compensate the loss of permanent invincibility for upwards of half a minute, she now has the ability to cast much faster, and mid-air. Furthermore, her Energy Vampire is now almost guaranteed to pay you back your energy cost, assuming you're within range of the affected enemy, even if they're killed immediately after the skill is cast.

 

If you haven't given her a long enough time to warm up to you, I suggest you don't judge her too harshly. She's a mellow young lady who just wants to help.

 

I am quite aware of Trinity's new kit. The energy vampire change was 1.5 years overdue and happened long after energy starvation has stopped being a thing. It is easier to pop down a team energy restore.

 

I personally prefer her now as she is, and I'm on Trinity every time I'm in a group setting. The reactionary element is what makes using her so exciting, personally speaking.

 

Not everybody enjoys watching health bars all the time. Being able to play the game while providing support was what made Trinity fun for me and that is gone. Now I'll just disable half the zone for 25 energy like everybody else. Because that's perfectly alright and a working team damage reduction buff is not.

 

Regardless, if you dislike her role as a support class, which involves the careful monitoring of your team's status, then perhaps that play-style isn't meant for you. Rhino may suit your needs more, considering he's immune to knock-down while Iron Skin is active. If you'd like to consider still using Trinity, combining Well of Life with a full duration Blessing, Link and a good sense of timing will still get you very far.

 

The blessing buff is useless. Compensating for it by playing harder won't make it less useless.

 

If you're still keen on continuing the discussion, I highly recommend you suggest some constructive feedback, at least, and start anew. Let the previous conversations be water under the bridge. The game has changed immensely, after all, and clinging to the old ways of playing may not be the most constructive; The game moves on, new mechanics are introduced, game-breaking utilities are changed, and life goes on.

 

It's only a game, friend. Don't hate on your fellow Tenno just for that.

 

"Constructive"? Nobody likes the new blessing. Everybody builds around it. Everybody compensates. It is bad.

 

I don't care about finding compromise with the forum dwellers. If I was into this for karma I would have equipped my forum bling.

[PsychedelicSnake]

Nobody likes the new blessing. 

[StinkyPygmy]

"Feedback to feedback" is not a thing. Usually feedback to games in beta is done in confidential forms that go directly to the company's quality assurance desk and not in a forum of open opinion like this. Shouting people down for taking the time to share their experience with a product instead of uninstalling it quietly is counterproductive and quite frankly disgusting.

 

 

 

I am quite aware of Trinity's new kit. The energy vampire change was 1.5 years overdue and happened long after energy starvation has stopped being a thing. It is easier to pop down a team energy restore.

 

 

 

Not everybody enjoys watching health bars all the time. Being able to play the game while providing support was what made Trinity fun for me and that is gone. Now I'll just disable half the zone for 25 energy like everybody else. Because that's perfectly alright and a working team damage reduction buff is not.

 

 

 

The blessing buff is useless. Compensating for it by playing harder won't make it less useless.

 

 

 

 

"Constructive"? Nobody likes the new blessing. Everybody builds around it. Everybody compensates. It is bad.

 

I don't care about finding compromise with the forum dwellers. If I was into this for karma I would have equipped my forum bling.

Well I like her new blessing, so theres that.

No one shouted you down.

Stop playing the victim. If you post on a public forum then yes "feedback too feedback" is a thing.

If you want confidentiality then PM a dev directly.

Don't create flame bait, insult other forum goers that dare to comment or disagree and then try and victimize yourself.

 

You don't have to like new trin and thats fine. You're more then entitled to your opinion and to voice said opinion.

But you can't expect everyone to agree and start being aggressive when people participate in the discussion.

Thats not fair and quite frankly disgusting.

 

On a more relevant note: I find the dmg reduction fine because thats not what blessing is really primarily used for (in contrast to before when it was almost never about healing but exploiting bad design). I use it as a panic button when someone is in trouble and needs quick heals. The DMG reduction is just icing on the cake for the guy in trouble. Its that simple. Sure it requires you to pay attention a bit more but thats fine by me personally. Its nice to have something that requires a bit more then spamming 4 consistently to use. Then again I also use WOL (I know, right?) when its not a dire situation so I'm clearly in the minority. Although WOL  should be made to work like energy vampire just for ease of use. Blessing does what it is functionally supposed to do. Everything between that is just keeping everyone high on energy and using link to keep your self going.

 

It all works just fine for me.

Edited August 27, 2014 by StinkyPygmy

[FaintestAura]

"Constructive"? Nobody likes the new blessing. Everybody builds around it. Everybody compensates. It is bad.

You cannot generalize that for the entire community. Impossible 

[Synthua]

You cannot generalize that for the entire community. Impossible 

 

So far, every reply that wasn't in the lines of "oh too bad you can't be OP anymore, hur hur" was about minimizing the buff's duration. If anybody liked it, they would seek to make use of the buff.

[Calayne]

"Feedback to feedback" is not a thing. Usually feedback to games in beta is done in confidential forms that go directly to the company's quality assurance desk and not in a forum of open opinion like this. Shouting people down for taking the time to share their experience with a product instead of uninstalling it quietly is counterproductive and quite frankly disgusting.

 

 

 

I am quite aware of Trinity's new kit. The energy vampire change was 1.5 years overdue and happened long after energy starvation has stopped being a thing. It is easier to pop down a team energy restore.

 

 

 

Not everybody enjoys watching health bars all the time. Being able to play the game while providing support was what made Trinity fun for me and that is gone. Now I'll just disable half the zone for 25 energy like everybody else. Because that's perfectly alright and a working team damage reduction buff is not.

 

 

 

The blessing buff is useless. Compensating for it by playing harder won't make it less useless.

 

 

 

 

"Constructive"? Nobody likes the new blessing. Everybody builds around it. Everybody compensates. It is bad.

 

I don't care about finding compromise with the forum dwellers. If I was into this for karma I would have equipped my forum bling.

 

LoL, you're quite the combative fellow.

 

"Feedback to feedback" is actually kind of a thing. It's normally known as "Discussion", and it's how people decide if the feedback is legitimate and relevant, or if it's not. This is a forums, after all, and not a place that's tied directly to DE's hotline. While it's true feedback is sometimes done in a more confidential matter such as that, the scale of Warframe makes that method absolutely untenable.  

 

I'd also like to note there was no shouting down at all, and perhaps it's best to just leave it as it is, and move on. 

 

Regarding "Not everyone likes staring at the health bars all the time" comment, I agree that it's true. It's also true that some people do like it, and Trinity is made specifically for these people. People like me, really. And Casardis, another forum-goer I know who is quite fond of Trinity, especially after the changes were made. At any rate, Warframes cater to specific styles. If you aren't particularly fond of one style, perhaps you can support your team in another way, with another frame. Valkyr still has invincibility, you know. With that, you can support your team with revives, when everyone's dropping like flies. Vauban has Bastille, Loki has Radial Disarm, Excal has Radial Blind, Oberon has Renewal. 

 

The point being, of course, that support is not strictly limited to Trinity, though that is her main function, and healing is part of that. But she's not the only one who can do it. Run with another frame you think can be helpful. Heck, even Rhino has Roar.

 

The blessing buff, in fact, was done to further accentuate her role as a reactionary healer; You don't "Heal" someone until he's injured, unless you're part of a Goblin Medic team. The fact that she could grant invincibility before anyone was injured, keep it up nigh-permanently, and then blow herself and everyone around her to smithereens with Link was, frankly, going a bit too far. "Don't play harder to compensate bad mechanics" is not a valid counterpoint, because it's a gameplay element that was reviewed and seen to require adjustments, precisely because it became too easy to play her. This is the right level of "Play", so to speak.

 

I'd like to point out your comment: 

 

"Everybody builds around it. Everybody compensates. It is bad."

 

You may recall that that's what builds are for: Specialising in a specific role, using a specific set of abilities. I build my Excalibur around Radial Blind. Does that mean it's bad? Certainly, the duration will be lower if I use "Fleeting expertise", and if I use "Overextended", my Slash Dash and Radial Javelin will be week. But that by no means suggests that the skill itself is bad. 

 

Finally, a word of advice:

 

If you can't be bothered to respect your fellow forum-goers, expect to receive none in turn. This is not a threat. This is common courtesy. This is not about karma. This is about respect.

[Calayne]

So far, every reply that wasn't in the lines of "oh too bad you can't be OP anymore, hur hur" was about minimizing the buff's duration. If anybody liked it, they would seek to make use of the buff.

 

Well, I did point out that if you use the maximized duration style as I do, you can use it with Link and Well of Life when your blessing is still up. The reason why everyone keeps talking about minimizing the buff's duration is for the same reason why the majority likes Rhino, Iron Skin, and Rhino Stomp. 

[FaintestAura]

So far, every reply that wasn't in the lines of "oh too bad you can't be OP anymore, hur hur" was about minimizing the buff's duration. If anybody liked it, they would seek to make use of the buff.

Because it functions as a spammable heal. Sure it has damage reduction and some people build to that, while others build for blessing spam. She can be built in a variety of ways. But yeah these are just a couple of people in the thousands that visit the forums.

 

Still not justified in saying everyone hates blessing. 

[StinkyPygmy]

So far, every reply that wasn't in the lines of "oh too bad you can't be OP anymore, hur hur" was about minimizing the buff's duration. If anybody liked it, they would seek to make use of the buff.

The buff is made use of. When someones in trouble and blessing is popped. Now that guy on 10 HP with a few gunners chewing into him has a bit more time to react and better chances of surviving. The buff was always just a bonus to stop players getting instantly healed and then downed again in 2 seconds because mobs in T4 hit like trucks.

Thats the simple mechanics of it. The primary use is the instant healing that applies globally so even when you are on the otherside of the map you can help the team. The buff is a nice little perk that makes it significantly more helpful for "endgame" content.

 

You can either build for the buff or build for spamming insta-heals and help link in the process.

Thats the point of multiple play styles and builds. If you can have it all with no downside then we would be even more OP then we already are. Which is why Rhino is abused. Because he is now about as easy mode as you can get and generally used by the players that don't like watching health bars, spam iron skin, stop and ignore roar.

I love rhinos that use roar.

Edited August 27, 2014 by StinkyPygmy

[Synthua]

I'd like to point out your comment: 

 

"Everybody builds around it. Everybody compensates. It is bad."

 

You may recall that that's what builds are for: Specialising in a specific role, using a specific set of abilities. I build my Excalibur around Radial Blind. Does that mean it's bad? Certainly, the duration will be lower if I use "Fleeting expertise", and if I use "Overextended", my Slash Dash and Radial Javelin will be week. But that by no means suggests that the skill itself is bad.

 

You might want to re-read what you are replying to. What you are describing is optimizing for a skill. That's the complete opposite of what I wrote.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Synthua

[Kestral9999]

I just hope the devs read the topic starters and not the ridiculous newbies that argue with feedback.

 

No, getting knocked on my arse all the friggin' time did not make the game more interesting for me.

The change from tanky in-the-fray frame to a ranged energy restore bot was not fun.

The variable damage reduction buff sucks.

Having to slot unranked mods to circumvent this feature is stupid.

 

This is my feedback. Deal with it.

The irony...

 

It's palpable.

[Synthua]

Because it functions as a spammable heal. Sure it has damage reduction and some people build to that, while others build for blessing spam. She can be built in a variety of ways. But yeah these are just a couple of people in the thousands that visit the forums.

 

Still not justified in saying everyone hates blessing. 

 

It only functions as a spammable heal if the buff gets minimized via downranking and negative duration mods. Otherwise the buff prevents from recasting the heal.

[StinkyPygmy]

You might want to re-read what you are replying to. What you are describing is optimizing for a skill. That's the complete opposite of what I wrote.

Well then go for a general build when no skill is optimised and no skill loses out either...

Its the same process for every frame. Trins no acceptation.

 

 

"It only functions as a spammable heal if the buff gets minimized via downranking and negative duration mods. Otherwise the buff prevents from recasting the heal."

 

Once again thats the point. Having both would be ridiculous.

Edited August 27, 2014 by StinkyPygmy

[Eredoc]

"Feedback to feedback" is not a thing. Usually feedback to games in beta is done in confidential forms that go directly to the company's quality assurance desk and not in a forum of open opinion like this. Shouting people down for taking the time to share their experience with a product instead of uninstalling it quietly is counterproductive and quite frankly disgusting.

 

"Constructive"? Nobody likes the new blessing. Everybody builds around it. Everybody compensates. It is bad.

 

I don't care about finding compromise with the forum dwellers. If I was into this for karma I would have equipped my forum bling.

 

Feedback to Feedback is the easiest way to find compromise for something, which people tried to do however you insulted them when they said that they were fine with Blessing in it's current iteration.

 

As Pygmy said, if you want something said confidentially then PM a Dev, otherwise you assume that everyone who reads your topic is free to voice their opinion much like you did yours,

 

Generalising an entire community based on your own personal opinions? Clearly a few people disagree and I'm more looking forward to levelling Trinity because her blessing isn't as powerful as it was, the same reaction I had with Nova.

 

The Forum is the easiest place to have your ideas read and reviewed and yet we still participate in the game, we don't just hang around the forum because we feel like it and being a founder doesn't make an opinion any more right or wrong, to me the founders will hold some respect to the money they gave out to get this game on it's feet, but in no way does that mean that I'll cling to their argument like it's never wrong.

 

All in all, I still stand by that you're acting very juvenile but people came here to help you find a build that you would be happy with and you turned this discussion into an argument.

Edited August 27, 2014 by DarkHybridWolf

[Calayne]

You might want to re-read what you are replying to. What you are describing is optimizing for a skill. That's the complete opposite of what I wrote.

 

Optimizing might be, to most, what I call "Building around" it, such as how I build my Oberon "Around" Renewal and Reckoning. 

 

Unless, of course, I misunderstood what you meant by "Building around"? Perhaps you meant that Blessing has to be gimped entirely for certain people to get the desired use of it? Such as lowering the duration as much as possible on Blessing, which, normally, would be increased to benefit people?

 

If that were the case, then I'd also say it's a kind of optimization. There are two camps who optimize blessing in two completely different ways: One, the one which completely destroys its duration to get as many spam-heals as possible, and the other, which is to time one good Blessing, make it last as long as possible, and get impressive damage reduction.

 

Of course, I may have misunderstood you again. The opposite of Optimization, though, would be Generalization, wouldn't it? In which case, forgive me, cause I really don't know what you're talking about by now.

[fatpig84]

You can either go long duration blessing DR trinity with link or reactionary healer.

There is 2 choices right there.

Edited August 27, 2014 by fatpig84

[Kestral9999]

What exactly is it that OP can't stand? Is it the fact that Trinity's blessing no longer makes you temporarily immortal? Or is it the fact that in order to get the maximum benefit of Blessing you have to know the right time to cast it?

 

If it bothers you so damn much, why keep the skill slotted? Just spec for Link and Energy Vampire and be done with it. Not every skill has to appeal to you and just because it used to doesn't mean that it has to go back to the way it was. You're showing a clear predisposition to whining instead of adapting your playstyle.

 

It is your opinion, and it is valid. But only as valid as everyone else's opinion. Being the OP doesn't make you an enemy to the opposed nor does it make you superior to them.

 

 

 

One thing I will say in favor of OP. I do wish that they would add an option to lock replies from anyone but game staff for feedback. Not that everyone should use this, but it does somewhat feel counterproductive and discouraging to post your feedback and then have everyone else come along to undermine it.

 

EDIT: Fixed some grammatical repetition.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Kestral9999

[-Himari-]

Stick to the topic of Trinity's ability, Tenno. Let's not fly off course.

[Synthua]

Optimizing might be, to most, what I call "Building around" it, such as how I build my Oberon "Around" Renewal and Reckoning.

 

Okay, we have a misunderstanding here. I meant building around in the sense of driving a car around a pothole. To avoid it.

 

 

 

Of course, I may have misunderstood you again. The opposite of Optimization, though, would be Generalization, wouldn't it? In which case, forgive me, cause I really don't know what you're talking about by now.

 

No, generalization is not the opposite of optimization. There is maximization, minimization, and generalization. In order to optimize your radial blind build, you maximize its range and efficiency. In order to optimize a blessing build, I have to minimize its duration.

 

Anyway, enough of this. I have another kubrow to level and freeze forever.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Synthua

[Synthua]

What exactly is it that OP can't stand? Is it the fact that Trinity's blessing no longer makes you temporarily immortal? Or is it the fact that in order to get the maximum benefit of Blessing you have to know the right time to cast it?

 

Since blessing no longer gives any kind of reprieve from damage, not even a couple seconds, the right time to cast it is to spam the button until the red bars on top-right stop losing their blue. I gave this new playstyle a fair try and found it neither effective nor enjoyable.

[Kestral9999]

Since blessing no longer gives any kind of reprieve from damage, not even a couple seconds, the right time to cast it is to spam the button until the red bars on top-right stop losing their blue. I gave this new playstyle a fair try and found it neither effective nor enjoyable.

Love how I already replied to this concern. Clearly some people can adapt to the change.

 

If it bothers you so damn much, why keep the skill slotted? Just spec for Link and Energy Vampire and be done with it. Not every skill has to appeal to you and just because it used to doesn't mean that it has to go back to the way it was. You're showing a clear predisposition to whining instead of adapting your playstyle.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Stick to the topic of Trinity's ability, Tenno. Let's not fly off course.

Okay.

 

Tthe skill is fine as it is, period.  You can build for low duration if you want a spammable heal, or you can build for long duration if you want to keep at a constant 99.7% (correct me if this is the wrong max) damage reduction up at all times.   You can stop anywhere in between for a fully customized experience.

 

It is balanced because you have to pick which is more important to you, and you can't have both long duration and heal spam.