[DE]Glen

Nat-Pmp

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[DE]Glen    6,703
Forwarding router ports is often a tricky processes but luckily many modern routers support Universal Plug and Play (UPnP) which is a protocol that allows us to automatically configure forwarding rules for you. Unfortunately a few popular models of router (most notably Apple’s Airport series) have opted to support a different protocol called NAT Port Mapping Protocol (NAT-PMP) instead of UPnP (they both do the same thing, though). 

 

Remarkably many modern routers work just fine without any forwarding at all -- we do quite a lot of packet trickery in order to hint to the router what ports we need and in many cases this is all we need to do. I recently bought an new Airport router for testing and played Warframe through it for a whole weekend without any problems -- no UPnP, no manual port forwarding -- it just worked. 

 

Using my new router as a test platform I added support for NAT-PMP and it will be shipping in Update 14.5; it is currently configured to only activate only if UPnP is disabled in-game or no UPnP support is detected. If you are currently stuck behind a Strict NAT the new NAT-PMP support could fix it for you if your router supports it.

 

Note: If you have forwarded ports manually on your router you should make sure to disable UPnP and NAT-PMP (both options are available the in-game Options).

 

Also: NAT-PMP support will be coming to PS4 when Update 14.5 passes through certification; since there is currently no UPnP support in Warframe for PS4 this might have an even larger impact there. 

 

Hopefully this will further reduce networking problems; I am looking forward to hearing if it helps anyone!

 

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Rydian    6,437

It's good to see DE making attempts to fix long-standing problems like this.

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xethier    3,545

thank you very much [DE]Glen for working to resolve the StrictNAT issues plaguing the community.

While I don't suffer from this, (my problems rest squarely at the feet of my ISP) As a person who builds routers for a living I greatly appreciate seeing the efforts that DE (and you specifically) have put forth to help resolve these problems.

 

Doubly so when you consider that the abysmal state of routers these days. It would be easy for you folks at DE to just wash your hands of it and say, "Well, buy a better router" instead of spending what is obviously a good number of man-hours to implement new components to warframe to help alleviate issues.

 

Kudos!

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Letter13    37,762

Definitely a good thing that there's better network support/compatibility down the road.

 

 

I read NAT-PMP as NAT-Pimp...

NAT keeping tight control over the ports it leases out...

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Yorinar    2,052

I read NAT-PMP as NAT-Pimp...

NAT keeping tight control over the ports it leases out...

 

 

"Where's my port?  I said, where's my port?  Do I look like a Cisco router to you?  Is that what you're sayin?" *slaps*

 

True story.  Quote taken from Apple design docs.

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Adagio    175

it doesn't do anything if the strict NAT is due to using usb modem right ?

 

i mean like, i got a strict NAT as i'm using usb modem and ports are all closed from my ISP or something (thus i am unable to port forward etc) - just trying to not get my hopes up high 

Edited by Adagio

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noveltyhero    8,133

Omg nice! PS. Will this affect those stuck on mobile networks? (our ports are given to us and we have limited options)

If not any possible fix on that?

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xethier    3,545

Omg nice! PS. Will this affect those stuck on mobile networks? (our ports are given to us and we have limited options)

If not any possible fix on that?

 

probably not. you're in a situation where you're at the mercy of the carrier/isp. 

possibly, but i wouldn't hold my breath.

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Andaeros    344

 

Forwarding router ports is often a tricky processes but luckily many modern routers support Universal Plug and Play (UPnP) which is a protocol that allows us to automatically configure forwarding rules for you. Unfortunately a few popular models of router (most notably Apple’s Airport series) have opted to support a different protocol called NAT Port Mapping Protocol (NAT-PMP) instead of UPnP (they both do the same thing, though). 
 
Remarkably many modern routers work just fine without any forwarding at all -- we do quite a lot of packet trickery in order to hint to the router what ports we need and in many cases this is all we need to do. I recently bought an new Airport router for testing and played Warframe through it for a whole weekend without any problems -- no UPnP, no manual port forwarding -- it just worked. 
 
Using my new router as a test platform I added support for NAT-PMP and it will be shipping in Update 14.5; it is currently configured to only activate only if UPnP is disabled in-game or no UPnP support is detected. If you are currently stuck behind a Strict NAT the new NAT-PMP support could fix it for you if your router supports it.
 
Note: If you have forwarded ports manually on your router you should make sure to disable UPnP and NAT-PMP (both options are available the in-game Options).
 
Also: NAT-PMP support will be coming to PS4 when Update 14.5 passes through certification; since there is currently no UPnP support in Warframe for PS4 this might have an even larger impact there. 
 
Hopefully this will further reduce networking problems; I am looking forward to hearing if it helps anyone!

 

 

I love reading devs posting information such as this. Networking is quite an interesting art. I'm glad to know that manual configs are still a toggleable option by disabling the auto-configs. Thanks for this post, Glen.

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aoguro    617

im glad to see a thread now about the biggest problem with the game which i have since i play it

 

support wasnt able to help me to fix the issues to this theme so im pleased and in hope that i get real professional help here

 

and mostly a better understanding how things function with warframe to this theme based on what i have expirienced, expirience and what i know and what you suggest

 

i will start soon asking and give a clear overview about the troubles with the warframe network which i expirience since i play

 

i hope we can fix this, thx

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SunBlade_ger    99

thanks Glen, but i still get "Strict NAT detected."

fortunately for me i can circumvent the strict nat bug by enabling DMZ in my router. but that also exposes all of my pc to the internet.

i am finally annoyed enough to ask: what exactly is the difference between strict nat and open nat? (you may speak tech, i can handle that)

like most routers mine uses symmetric NAT with static port mapping. i don't use UPnP nor PMP (also disabled in WF). i use static IPs for all devices in my LAN. i have forwarded ports 4000-4999 UDP&TCP to my local IP. my maximum connection speed is 256KBps downstream and 48KBps upstream.

Warframe is the first application which refuses my router.

Warcraft3: i could host games and annoy other players ("you lag like hell.").

Bittorrent: while downloading open office i get incoming connections.

Teamspeak: i can host a server, max remote clients: 3 (any more and speech gets scrambled)

Unreal Tournament: i could host a dedicated server ("ping is over 9000!!! dude, close your server.")

Supreme Commander: i could host a game session ("my units are teleporting all over the place. let me host.")

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xethier    3,545

specifically define each port to your ip address and use UDP only.

each port should have it's own entry, not a range.

 

i.e. if you're using the defaults it should be:

4950 & 4955

 

make sure you turn off UPnP & PMP in warframe.

after that you should be golden.

just remember that each port usually requires it's *OWN* entry on your router. (at least in warframe's case)

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aoguro    617

specifically define each port to your ip address and use UDP only.

each port should have it's own entry, not a range.

 

i.e. if you're using the defaults it should be:

4950 & 4955

 

make sure you turn off UPnP & PMP in warframe.

after that you should be golden.

just remember that each port usually requires it's *OWN* entry on your router. (at least in warframe's case)

 

ok, after u14 this message left

 

after u14.smth and u14.5 its back again

 

now a reset on my modem was needed and i opened the ports and did what DE is describing

 

the result is, that i have now 2 different message on 2 different times

 

sometimes i get: be shure that you allow 4950 & 4955 in your firewall (my firewall is down because i know where i go in the web)

and all the other times i have the wellknown message back

i checked all with the provider-technicians and with the modem-company-technicians and they are quite in a ??? about and asked me for going to DE for a good result ...

 

and then i have this continous gamecrashes which i mentioned in glens other thread

btw, before it crashes, the game freezes for around one second

when i use the bandleable graficsettings on my laptop the game crashes

when i use lowest grafic-settings the game moves on after the short freeze

AND THIS THIS MONTHES NOW and even the contact to support was not really useful until now

 

im simply astonished when this can be fixed, glen and if, how ?

thank you

Edited by 7ENN0

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SunBlade_ger    99

specifically define each port to your ip address and use UDP only.

each port should have it's own entry, not a range.

whether you forward a whole range or just single ports should not change anything. just to be sure i tested port forwarding with 4950,4955 udp only. no doesn't work either.

make sure you turn off UPnP & PMP in warframe.

just checked. yes still off.

i checked all with the provider-technicians and with the modem-company-technicians and they are quite in a ??? about and asked me for going to DE for a good result ...

yes, i also get ??? whenever i read "strict nat". just to make sure the problem is not related to my router/firewall configuration i asked around the network staff at university. none of them knows the terms "strict nat" or "open nat", one even had me run sockettest and create udp servers on ports 4950 and 4955. guess what, they worked.

so, to the people responsible for the network code: what exactly is the difference between Strict NAT and Open NAT? (you may speak tech as much as you like, i can handle that)

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xethier    3,545

-snip-

whether you forward a whole range or just single ports should not change anything. just to be sure i tested port forwarding with 4950,4955 udp only. no doesn't work either.

-snip-

 

it shouldn't. you're right. but some routers are flaky and don't follow the rules properly. on those, many times adding in separate, individual port forwards will resolve it. it was worth a shot at any rate.

 

strict / moderate / open nat breaks down generally like this:

 

open nat means that the port assignment policy is minimal and that it is fully compliant with UPnP.

 

moderate nat means that the port assignment policy is minimal but the device is filtering addresses or ports.

 

strict nat means the port assignment policy is aggressive. (filtering addresses and ports rigidly) 

 

does that explain the differences enough for you? 

 

btw, this open/moderate/strict terminology is microsoft's and i don't think anybody else uses it as rigidly.

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aoguro    617

as i get simply ignored with my problem i have a bad feeling:

 

that www-wiki is right, upnp was written for local networks as for example in companies, it was never written for a world-wide-web-usage like in games

 

next is, i watched carefully my laptop and when the game crashes: i think smth in this network has big synchronisationproblems with different connections and the datastream which is moving through and bringing all players together in a harmonious way

i wait now one day more for help from DE/glen and then i will post my laptop-specs, then you will see that my comp is for shure not too small for warframe (i say it again: my lappy handles easy frostbite 3/rivals on high settings, and moderate - but not lowest - settings at cod ghosts and there are no gamecrashes)

 

i also checked with the support of my provider if i have a unstable backbone in my area where im connected with, no, there is nothing ...

im adult, so, i spend in relation to the game and the quality i get more then 500 bucks until now, this leads me straight to point out why i got a warning point ...

im not shure how clear i have to talk or how deeply i have to bow down - before whom at de - to get my needed professional support, and yes, for my money, that is how economy functions and this is how economy carries success for seller and customer :-)

 

ok, back to logical technical things now, see you

Edited by 7ENN0

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xethier    3,545

-snip for brevity-

 

Could you offer some details about your 'net connection?

Cable / DSL / Router manufacturer?

Wired / Wireless local network?

 

I've noticed that I, too, get the occasional "freeze" moment when I'm hosting followed by 1-2 players being dropped. (obviously a problem leading to a host migration) -- My problem is easy, my maximum upload speed is 768k on a DSL. So when I'm hosting 3 players and my connection becomes saturated (dsl overhead is the likely culprit) everything goes bonkers for a second or two and players are dropped.

 

So I doubt this is your computer's performance, the more likely issue is your router / isp. Supplying additional details would help troubleshoot the problem.

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