-GM-Cha_Dude- Posted August 28, 2014 Author Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) How does it hurt me, as an avid Nova player? Oh I don't get to automatically have the highest kill count at the end of the match, yawn, I never cared about that anyway. You may not have, but that doesn't make it right. If it's my ability that kills an enemy, why would I not get credit for that kill? This is ridiculous that we even have to debate this at all. Edited August 28, 2014 by -GM-Cha_Dude- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatpig84 Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Psst. Put natural talent on Nova. Prime and shoot em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Nova is locked in the casting animation for a significant period of time. Her team mates are not going to be sitting around waiting for it to end. She was supposed to be a glass cannon. Now she is just a liability to the player playing as her. I agree; Nova players that learn about the change will just stop using M.Prime when it should be used as it will only hurt them. The prime is delayed so others don't necessarily get to the punch before you. I don't see how this changes anything for Nova besides she will generally get less warframe exp and more radial exp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bl4ckhunter Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 i don't get what people complaing about, you still get the xp share from your teammates and this way actually you can rank something other than nova with mprime so i actually think it's a good change, and besides xp distibution m-prime is an offensive skill and this is a shooter not a mmorpg (and ranking caster frames is extremely easy) the purpose of m-prime is to cc and kill stuff not to let you brag about kills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DesecratedFlame Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 i don't get what people complaing about, you still get the xp share from your teammates and this way actually you can rank something other than nova with mprime so i actually think it's a good change, and besides xp distibution m-prime is an offensive skill and this is a shooter not a mmorpg (and ranking caster frames is extremely easy) the purpose of m-prime is to cc and kill stuff not to let you brag about kills. You say that like they couldn't have just given the XP to Nova's weapon instead of just Nova. Instead, Nova players will be wasting their own energy to give more XP to OTHER players. It makes no logical sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwiceDead Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 You may not have, but that doesn't make it right. If it's my ability that kills an enemy, why would I not get credit for that kill? This is ridiculous that we even have to debate this at all. Yes you are right. I can't rightly fathom why you insist on debating about it, or made the topic in the first place. Your problem with the change is not really a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-GM-Cha_Dude- Posted August 28, 2014 Author Share Posted August 28, 2014 Yes you are right. I can't rightly fathom why you insist on debating about it, or made the topic in the first place. Your problem with the change is not really a problem. TThe fact that you resort to argument fallacy directly supports the fact that you have no argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwiceDead Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) TThe fact that you resort to argument fallacy directly supports the fact that you have no argument. Because there is literally nothing to argue here. Edited August 28, 2014 by TwiceDead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-GM-Cha_Dude- Posted August 28, 2014 Author Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) Because there is literally nothing to argue here.You're completely ignoring the fact that the kills don't count to the player. They cast the ability, they did the damage, yet they don't get credit for this. This directly affects leader boards, profile kills and the frame xp(should they be levelling it at the time). Just because you don't care about kills doesn't mean you're right. You can't just throw out a detail that you doesn't matter to you because you feel like it. Edited August 28, 2014 by -GM-Cha_Dude- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 You're completely ignoring the fact that the kills don't count to the player. They can't the ability, they did the damage, yet they don't get credit for this. This directly affects leader boards, profile kills and the frame xp(should they be levelling it at the time). Just because you don't care about kills doesn't mean you're right. You can't just throw out a detail that you doesn't matter to you because you feel like it. They never should have counted to the Nova player. The chaining on molecular prime was always a weird bait-and-switch for those things. M Prime was the only ability that did something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwiceDead Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) You're completely ignoring the fact that the kills don't count to the player. They can't the ability, they did the damage, yet they don't get credit for this. This directly affects leader boards, profile kills and the frame xp(should they be levelling it at the time). Just because you don't care about kills doesn't mean you're right. You can't just throw out a detail that you doesn't matter to you because you feel like it. If you care about your profile kills and numbers, go to Mercury survival, grab any frame with press 4 to win, initiate repeated button presses, finish the round, rinse and repeat. If you're a competitive player and you took pride in the amount of kills you got from Molecular Prime, then I want you to know... that you didn't earn those kills. Those high kill-counts at the end-reward screen were literally forged, not legit numbers, and if you thought they were you were wrong. Now if someone should be leveling Nova at the time, they could use Antimatter-drop like any civilized person would rather than MP spam. Granted AM-D is kind of unreliable unless you're host, so make sure you are. Now Nova's won't screw over the other three players that are trying to level up one specific item. Edited August 28, 2014 by TwiceDead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-GM-Cha_Dude- Posted August 28, 2014 Author Share Posted August 28, 2014 They never should have counted to the Nova player. The chaining on molecular prime was always a weird bait-and-switch for those things. M Prime was the only ability that did something like that. Just because it's unique, doesn't make it wrong. What's your argument for why the kills should count to a player that didn't cast the ability? Please don't just state it as fact, give a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DesecratedFlame Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 They never should have counted to the Nova player. The chaining on molecular prime was always a weird bait-and-switch for those things. M Prime was the only ability that did something like that. Wrong. The first kill should be long the the player that killed it. The additional kills should belong to Nova as she is the one killing them with her power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-GM-Cha_Dude- Posted August 28, 2014 Author Share Posted August 28, 2014 Wrong. The first kill should be long the the player that killed it. The additional kills should belong to Nova as she is the one killing them with her power. Exactly this. All the arguments about the experience are ignoring this. Their issue is with the experience system, but they're happy to destroy the kill system as long as the result is what they want. Change the way xp is distributed, not the kills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-GM-Cha_Dude- Posted August 28, 2014 Author Share Posted August 28, 2014 If you're a competitive player and you took pride in the amount of kills you got from Molecular Prime, then I want you to know... that you didn't earn those kills. Those high kill-counts at the end-reward screen were literally forged, not legit numbers, and if you thought they were you were wrong. Honey, I could get just as many, if not more, kills using any frame that has an AOE, especially rhino. Also, why, if those kills weren't "earned" as the Nova, should they be "earned" as a frame played next to a Nova? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwiceDead Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) Just because it's unique, doesn't make it wrong. What's your argument for why the kills should count to a player that didn't cast the ability? Please don't just state it as fact, give a reason. Honey, I could get just as many, if not more, kills using any frame that has an AOE, especially rhino. Also, why, if those kills weren't "earned" as the Nova, should they be "earned" as a frame played next to a Nova? I'm not your Honey. Let's hop into your world where kills matter for a moment. I will confine this world to the spoiler tag. Inside this spoiler is where kills matter. Imagine a competition where the amount of kills mattered, one single Nova competes. In order to win this competition, all the Nova has to do is cast molecular prime once, then all the enemies affected by molecular prime's insane radius automatically becomes her kills, along with any enemies walking close to the affected target. Even if the other players try to shoot/kill the targets affected by molecular prime, at most they will get one kill while the rest of the kills vanish and are automatically added to her killcount. It would literally be like framing numbers, because even if the other players find chunks of enemies ripe for the taking, chances are they are already affected by Molecular Prime. The Nova doesn't even have to be close to these enemies, or even see them, all she has to do is cast molecular prime since she knows it's range will eventually reach them unless the other players can out-run the radius and kill every enemy outside it before it affects them. Considering how long MP lasts, enemies would automatically spawn affected by molecular prime, which is why it wouldn't be fair as far as kills go. Now luckily kills outside of PvP don't really matter in Warframe other than to catch people who is taking on more than they can chew or slacking off, so there's no reason to be upset. XP is far more valuable than kills. Edited August 28, 2014 by TwiceDead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-GM-Cha_Dude- Posted August 28, 2014 Author Share Posted August 28, 2014 I'm not your Honey. Let's hop into your world where kills matter for a moment. I will confine this world to the spoiler tag. Inside this spoiler is where kills matter. Imagine a competition where the amount of kills mattered, one single Nova competes. In order to win this competition, all the Nova has to do is cast molecular prime once, then all the enemies affected by molecular prime's insane radius automatically becomes her kills, along with any enemies walking close to the affected target. Even if the other players try to shoot/kill the targets affected by molecular prime, at most they will get one kill while the rest of the kills vanish and are automatically added to her killcount. It would literally be like framing numbers, because even if the other players find chunks of enemies ripe for the taking, chances are they are already affected by Molecular Prime. The Nova doesn't even have to be close to these enemies, or even see them, all she has to do is cast molecular prime since she knows it's range will eventually reach them unless the other players can out-run the radius and kill every enemy outside it before it affects them. Considering how long MP lasts, enemies would automatically spawn affected by molecular prime, which is why it wouldn't be fair as far as kills go. Now luckily kills outside of PvP don't really matter in Warframe other than to catch people who is taking on more than they can chew or slacking off, so there's no reason to be upset. You've still not responded to my argument, so I'll post it for you again. If you can address this in a way that is logical, it'd be very helpful and may even convince me that this change is merited. Why would a kill count towards Player A, if it was Player B who killed it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Wolfer93 Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Psst. Put natural talent on Nova. Prime and shoot em. This?? I've never suffered animation delay with Natural Talent on. I still get kills aplenty. Aside from that, I'm probably dense as hell, but I thought it was always like this. The XP system always confuses me anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurpleBomber Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 So if I understand it right, the player who triggers the M. Prime chain gets all the kill credit, meaning Nova gets shared exp amongst all her weapons... Welp, Nova's my top grinding frame now. Just pack your unrankeds and M. Prime for days. XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwiceDead Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) You've still not responded to my argument, so I'll post it for you again. If you can address this in a way that is logical, it'd be very helpful and may even convince me that this change is merited. Why would a kill count towards Player A, if it was Player B who killed it? Because player B(Nova?) was not present when player A initiated the chain-reaction. If Nova is not there to initiate her own chain reactions, the kills should not go to her. Edited August 28, 2014 by TwiceDead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metroidman12311 Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 why does anyone care about this?! if you are using nova that means you are leveling her or already have her maxed. for leveling it doesn't matter as she will take a bit longer to max out but your other stuff gets XP. if you already have her maxed then it matters even less because now your other weapons get the XP so it isn't wasted on the maxed out frame you are using. as for the kill argument, what part of you is compelled to be the one that killed the most enemies that round? this is a PvE game with PvP in it. that means most of the time you are working together to help the team succeed, not just your own leaderboard rank. it's a welcomed change to a frame that people used too much for bragging rights. that's my opinion, your's is different I know, bit think about what this change means before trying to start a flamewar over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DesecratedFlame Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 In order to win this competition, all the Nova has to do is cast molecular prime once, then all the enemies affected by molecular prime's insane radius automatically becomes her kills. Meanwhile, a Rhino can just stomp and instantly kill them all. Saryn can blow them away in an instant. Etc. Why the double standards? The enemy kill by the other player should count as a kill for that player. The enemies killed by the chain reaction should count as kills for the Nova player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-GM-Cha_Dude- Posted August 28, 2014 Author Share Posted August 28, 2014 Because player B(Nova?) was not present when player A initiated the chain-reaction. If Nova is not there to initiate her own chain reactions, the kills should not go to her. How can you say this? They were obviously there in the game and cast an ability that affected that enemy. why does anyone care about this?! if you are using nova that means you are leveling her or already have her maxed. for leveling it doesn't matter as she will take a bit longer to max out but your other stuff gets XP. if you already have her maxed then it matters even less because now your other weapons get the XP so it isn't wasted on the maxed out frame you are using. as for the kill argument, what part of you is compelled to be the one that killed the most enemies that round? this is a PvE game with PvP in it. that means most of the time you are working together to help the team succeed, not just your own leaderboard rank. it's a welcomed change to a frame that people used too much for bragging rights. that's my opinion, your's is different I know, bit think about what this change means before trying to start a flamewar over it. My argument isn't about experience. It's based in logic and equality. That's right, equality, not equity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwiceDead Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) Meanwhile, a Rhino can just stomp and instantly kill them all. Saryn can blow them away in an instant. Etc. Why the double standards? The enemy kill by the other player should count as a kill for that player. The enemies killed by the chain reaction should count as kills for the Nova player. Rhinos and Saryns have to be present in an area for the enemies to die. Nova can cast, run off to another area, prepare another MP, and expect her teammates to award her with kills. How can you say this? They were obviously there in the game and cast an ability that affected that enemy. My argument isn't about experience. It's based in logic and equality. That's right, equality, not equity. You must be trolling me. Example: In the void(or any other map tileset), there are lots of corridors, each leading to their own enemy spawn. Molecular prime has an insane duration and range, so she can cast, run off in one direction while knowing that she will still get the kills that would spawn in the direction she is running away from. Meanwhile, the other player runs the opposite direction because he wants experience for his weapon, but get's sadly disappointed when he finds out that molecular prime's duration and range is infinite and every enemy he encounters is affected by molecular prime. Have you even played anything else than a Nova? Edited August 28, 2014 by TwiceDead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metroidman12311 Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 My argument isn't about experience. It's based in logic and equality. That's right, equality, not equity. then why are you arguing about something as trivial as who got the most kills? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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