Beloved De: U16: Pause Of The Next Big Thing. (Straw Poll Included)

[Angius]

The opposition draws inspiration from the knowledge about how F2P games work.

 

No new content = no players = no money.

 

Warframe lives solely thanks to new content. Most of the players play from update to update, because they give us new stuff to do. Making U16 one big hotfix with no content whatsoever would cause massive exodus of players. Each update brings something new to do - Kubrows, quests, Archwing, this kind of stuff. You can't play hotfixes, you can't have fun with hotfixes, nobody will be interested in Warframe if it says "U 16! No new content, only fixes!" instead of "Experience our brand new gamemode with brand new frames and brand new weapons!"

 

Content keeps the game alive.

 

Hotfixes increase the overall quality of our gameplay, true, but they don't add anything. And - let's be honest - Warframe couldn't be more repetitive. People are already burnt out. Without a promise of new content, do you think, that somebody would bother? No, because ther'd be even less to do, than it is now.

 

Yes, hotfixes are necessary, but not for the cost of new content. Why won't we keep it as it is now, eh? Hotfixes plus content. You get your un-fun stuff, we get our fun stuff. Everybody's happy.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Angius

[Nkomo-Sama]

So you're suggesting they make content but not release it.

No I am suggesting they release it when it is not broken. Extend the dev cycle.

[vaugahn]

No I am suggesting they release it when it is not broken. Extend the dev cycle.

 

So you're suggesting they delay updates...because that worked so well with U14

[Eredoc]

No I am suggesting they release it when it is not broken. Extend the dev cycle.

 

How do you justify when something isn't broken? When there's no bugs?  Something that is literally impossible to achieve on the scale that warframe is in?

Edited September 2, 2014 by DarkHybridWolf

[Angius]

No I am suggesting they release it when it is not broken. Extend the dev cycle.

So, you want DE to put all of those updates through beta-testing before releasing, right?

Well, I don't know how to tell you...

 

WE are beta-testers. Warframe IS a beta-test, what we have now IS the extended dev cycle.

[Nkomo-Sama]

So you're suggesting they delay updates...because that worked so well with U14

I am not sure where the disconnect in communication is. Smart guy... EVERY update since U9 has been "delayed" and every time everyone complains. It will always happen because people are basically impatient and stupid if you want to speak in general terms. ALSO. I am not suggesting delaying anything. I am suggesting dedicating ONE SINGLE DEVELOPMENT CYCLE to doing a clean-up pass to the game. How is this such a bad thing? It will improve the game that we play and allow us ALL to enjoy all of the new things that come after that, This is the kind of talk that will always keep Mcdonalds in business. They are notorious for selling sub par, toxic "food". Yet every idiot in the world will go there to eat because 1. it is fast and hot 2. it is cheap. These will be the same people that want to sue Mcdonalds when they cannot fit through their door or when they need two airplane seats or are 25 and cannot walk a flight of stairs without taking a break. QUALITY TAKES TIME.

[vaugahn]

I am not sure where the disconnect in communication is. Smart guy... EVERY update since U9 has been "delayed" and every time everyone complains. It will always happen because people are basically impatient and stupid if you want to speak in general terms. ALSO. I am not suggesting delaying anything. I am suggesting dedicating ONE SINGLE DEVELOPMENT CYCLE to doing a clean-up pass to the game. How is this such a bad thing? It will improve the game that we play and allow us ALL to enjoy all of the new things that come after that, This is the kind of talk that will always keep Mcdonalds in business. They are notorious for selling sub par, toxic "food". Yet every idiot in the world will go there to eat because 1. it is fast and hot 2. it is cheap. These will be the same people that want to sue Mcdonalds when they cannot fit through their door or when they need two airplane seats or are 25 and cannot walk a flight of stairs without taking a break. QUALITY TAKES TIME.

 

I'm honestly not sure what you're suggesting.

 

That we stop releasing content? That we push back updates? I cannot discern your point, and the weird analogies are just making things more confusing.

[PsychedelicSnake]

So, you want DE to put all of those updates through beta-testing before releasing, right?

Well, I don't know how to tell you...

 

WE are beta-testers. Warframe IS a beta-test, what we have now IS the extended dev cycle.

Not disagreeing with you, but whenever I see the word "beta" I immediately leave the thread permanently.

 

I think we put too much stock into terms nowadays. "Beta" is just a four-letter word for "in-development" or "unfinished", both of which Warframe is. Sadly, people think too much on the "beta" part and too little or not at all on the "unfinished" part.

 

EDIT: Also, people fail to understand how bugfixing works a disturbingly large amount of the time. It's not as simple as finding a bug or glitch and fixing it. Bare-bones, it goes like this:

 

1) Testers play, and maybe find a bug.

2) Tester reports it (via forums).

3) Dev notes the report and attempts to recreate the bug.

   - At this point, it can split into two paths.

Path 1: Bug is successfully replicated several times over.

Path 2: Bug is not successfully replicated. Keep doing it over and over and over until Path 1 is achieved.

   - At this point, it continues on:

4) Attempt to fix bug in a way that achieves best results. If results are unsatisfactory, restart it and do it all over again and get better results. Do this multiple times. If effects are gamebreaking, perhaps the bug is better off left in, or if the effects are minimal (but not perfect), release the fix at the cost of one or two additional (but not as severe) bugs.

5) Repeat as necessary.

 

That's essentially how it goes, and as simple as I can make it for people to understand.

Edited September 2, 2014 by PsychedelicSnake

[jennibear]

I am not sure where the disconnect in communication is. Smart guy... EVERY update since U9 has been "delayed" and every time everyone complains. It will always happen because people are basically impatient and stupid if you want to speak in general terms. ALSO. I am not suggesting delaying anything. I am suggesting dedicating ONE SINGLE DEVELOPMENT CYCLE to doing a clean-up pass to the game. How is this such a bad thing? It will improve the game that we play and allow us ALL to enjoy all of the new things that come after that, This is the kind of talk that will always keep Mcdonalds in business. They are notorious for selling sub par, toxic "food". Yet every idiot in the world will go there to eat because 1. it is fast and hot 2. it is cheap. These will be the same people that want to sue Mcdonalds when they cannot fit through their door or when they need two airplane seats or are 25 and cannot walk a flight of stairs without taking a break. QUALITY TAKES TIME.

The devs set these release dates themselves, we don't force them to release things, if they stopped creating new things they would lose money. You can't force them to do anything, including forcing them to take a break and fix old stuff.

 

what are some examples of things that are so wrong in this game that need so badly to be fixed according to you?

[Nkomo-Sama]

How do you justify when something isn't broken? When there's no bugs?  Something that is literally impossible to achieve on the scale that warframe is in?

 

 

So, you want DE to put all of those updates through beta-testing before releasing, right?

Well, I don't know how to tell you...

 

WE are beta-testers. Warframe IS a beta-test, what we have now IS the extended dev cycle.

Hey... thanks for the info... As a fellow beta tester... we have been reporting several prevailing issues for 1 year that have not been addressed. I feel as a beta tester that some of that input should be looked into before we have more stuff to test. What do you think fellow beta tester? Are you a beta tester or a player? Both? Me too.

[Angius]

Not disagreeing with you, but whenever I see the word "beta" I immediately leave the thread permanently.

 

I think we put too much stock into terms nowadays. "Beta" is just a four-letter word for "in-development" or "unfinished", both of which Warframe is. Sadly, people think too much on the "beta" part and too little or not at all on the "unfinished" part.

Well, beta = unfinished, yes. There's no difference in saying "we are beta-testers, what we have is beta" and "we are testing the unfinished game that is still in development" - none of these two makes OP's point more valid, though.

 

@OP: Yes, you ARE asking for delaying the content. if it is ready for U16 let it be RELEASED in U16, do not hold them back because YOU want U16 to be pure hotfixes.

 

You are asking for exactly that:

 ALSO. I am not suggesting delaying anything. I am suggesting dedicating ONE SINGLE DEVELOPMENT CYCLE to doing a clean-up pass to the game. 

To stop the content in development cycle and push it to further update.

 

Yes, I am both. A beta tester and a player. I can't see your point, TBH, what it has to do with anything?

Yes, there are some bugs from a long time ago, but who says, that they won't be fixed with, let's say, 14.6? Or in U15, together with new content, huh?

 

The fact, that some bugs had been noted and are not fixed yet doesn't mean, that we shouldn't get more to test. This is our job - test the content and report any bugs. How can we test it with no content being released?

Releasing more stuff won't stop bugfixing, and Warframe desperately needs content.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Angius

[Eredoc]

Hey... thanks for the info... As a fellow beta tester... we have been reporting several prevailing issues for 1 year that have not been addressed. I feel as a beta tester that some of that input should be looked into before we have more stuff to test. What do you think fellow beta tester? Are you a beta tester or a player? Both? Me too.

 

Somethings aren't that Easy to find, Coding is a delicate art, and when you have thousands upon thousands of lines it can be incredibly hard to find what you're looking for but just because we find and report a bug doesn't mean that it can immediately be fixed, the bug might originate from more than one location as well.

 

And to touch upon what you said, Simply because the bug you found wasn't fixed immediately doesn't mean that DE hasn't taken it's existence into account.

 

EDIT: We are Both of those but how these support what you're trying to say is beyond me.

Edited September 2, 2014 by DarkHybridWolf

[PsychedelicSnake]

 

And to touch upon what you said, Simply because the bug you found wasn't fixed immediately doesn't mean that DE hasn't taken it's existance into account.

Although it is a separate topic, this same idea can be applied to many of the reactions to Archwing. Just because DE didn't show or tease Focus does not mean it doesn't exist or it was scrapped or they aren't working on it. It just means they didn't show it, same as the fixes. 

 

Just because it hasn't been fixed yet doesn't mean they aren't actively trying to fix it or have ignored it. It just means they haven't found a fix they have found satisfactory yet. Like good 'ol Lord Gaben once said...

 

And, depending on the complexity and "hard-to-findness" of the bug, glitch, or messed up content itself, more time than others.

[AM-Bunny]

Artists, 3D designers, mapmakers are not equal to programmers. Ceasing to add new content will just make the creative team sit on their posteriors doing nothing, it would not speed up fixing, it would only halt new content.

 

Your idea is to, basically, tell a plumber to stop working, because the electrician needs help.

 

Telling a 3D artist to solve Strict NAT is like telling a painter to create a sonata.

 

I don't know why topics like this one still happen... Can nobody, really, grasp the concept?

You're correct, but OP's concern isn't completely uncalled for. I remember just recently Scott said in a dev stream that the Oberon changes and sniper buffs were completely brushed off for weeks because he had been so focused on the new update 14 content.

You really think the programmers that *would* be fixing these things won't have their hands full with a whole new truckload of arch wing bugs?

[Nkomo-Sama]

I'm honestly not sure what you're suggesting.

 

That we stop releasing content? That we push back updates? I cannot discern your point, and the weird analogies are just making things more confusing.

I apologize. I often assume people can glean context and meaning from my written word. Then I remember I can be weird and occasionally a bit verbose. Please allow me to elaborate. Mcdonalds is a company that sells a sub par and toxic product as a substitute for food. (in this example I am defining a company that sells a sub par product, I am making a SLIGHT comparison to warframe which I DO NOT think is sub par but it is in need of some attention to core features of it's animation and core mechanics.) Logic would assume that Mcdonalds would be out of business. (by this I am saying that "common" sense would dictate that a company selling documented toxic food would have been bankrupt years ago.) However Mcdonalds is a thriving business. In addition I am drawing a relationship between the thought process of those rendered obese and unhealthy as a direct result of someone eating mcdonalds for years, and then suing MCDONALDS (thereby shifting the responsibility from themselves where it rightfully belongs for patronizing and over indulging.) and relating them to someone who will patronize a business that has released a less than polished (polished not in graphics but in ANIMATION. There is a difference.) product and will then in turn criticize the company for issues that may arise from that product without first requesting the company to make changes that you would find beneficial.

[Nkomo-Sama]

Somethings aren't that Easy to find, Coding is a delicate art, and when you have thousands upon thousands of lines it can be incredibly hard to find what you're looking for but just because we find and report a bug doesn't mean that it can immediately be fixed, the bug might originate from more than one location as well.

 

And to touch upon what you said, Simply because the bug you found wasn't fixed immediately doesn't mean that DE hasn't taken it's existence into account.

 

EDIT: We are Both of those but how these support what you're trying to say is beyond me.

I am aware at how extensive coding/debugging is. I code for an open source 2d fighting game and have been for years.I am not referring to MY bug reports. I am referring to the recurring community reports, requests and suggestions...take for example Parkour.... There have been more reasons to not institute a new dodge/mobility system then I care to name. The blame has fallen on the stage developers, the programmers, the community and the animation department. Sooo... ok. You mean this obstacle CANNOT be overcome? How true does that sound to you?

[Nkomo-Sama]

Although it is a separate topic, this same idea can be applied to many of the reactions to Archwing. Just because DE didn't show or tease Focus does not mean it doesn't exist or it was scrapped or they aren't working on it. It just means they didn't show it, same as the fixes. 

 

Just because it hasn't been fixed yet doesn't mean they aren't actively trying to fix it or have ignored it. It just means they haven't found a fix they have found satisfactory yet. Like good 'ol Lord Gaben once said...

 

And, depending on the complexity and "hard-to-findness" of the bug, glitch, or messed up content itself, more time than others.

 

 

 

 

BY THE WAY IF U15 ADDRESSES ALL THOSE LITTLE THINGS WE AS A COMMUNITY MAY NOT EMBRACE SO READILY PLEASE BY ALL MEANS IGNORE THIS THREAD

 

 

I agree with you. THIS IS WHY I AM PROPOSING DEDICATING ONE... ONLY ONE development cycle for a fix/touch up pass. Is it that we will not wait? Gtfoh lets be serious we will all bech and moan no matter what DE does...they might as well do it anyways... By the way... once Archwings gets here we will be flying through space and whatnot we will be busy... we can wait. I hope that is the plan. To make this update as good as possible and then while we are playing that DE can focus on the unfinished business.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Nkomo-Sama

[Nkomo-Sama]

You're correct, but OP's concern isn't completely uncalled for. I remember just recently Scott said in a dev stream that the Oberon changes and sniper buffs were completely brushed off for weeks because he had been so focused on the new update 14 content.

You really think the programmers that *would* be fixing these things won't have their hands full with a whole new truckload of arch wing bugs?

THANK YOU.

[Nkomo-Sama]

EDIT: We are Both of those but how these support what you're trying to say is beyond me.

As a gamer. I would like to enjoy my game more. As a beta tester among MANY, I would like some of the most common, recurring, most upvoted requests to be addressed. Does this help you see how this supports what I am trying to say?

Edited September 3, 2014 by Nkomo-Sama

[Nkomo-Sama]

Well, not necessarily, but...

 

The game needs some story, even if it's only in written form, that starts tying things together.

I know it's beta and everything, but given that it's been around for 2 years, there's an alarmingly large amoung of loose ends that needs tying, and unanswered questions that could use some answers.

This too. I am not saying we need some the life story of each corpus crewman but Warframe will definitely have a cult following once more lore is introduced...hell it already does.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Nkomo-Sama

[Eredoc]

I am aware at how extensive coding/debugging is. I code for an open source 2d fighting game and have been for years.I am not referring to MY bug reports. I am referring to the recurring community reports, requests and suggestions...take for example Parkour.... There have been more reasons to not institute a new dodge/mobility system then I care to name. The blame has fallen on the stage developers, the programmers, the community and the animation department. Sooo... ok. You mean this obstacle CANNOT be overcome? How true does that sound to you?

 

Again, Just because DE haven't said anything in regards to these that they're not noted, They know people want a better parkour system, they know people want better stealth mechanics, the question is: When can they optimally do it without disregarding new content, after all many people have difficulty in finding things to do in Warframe due to the lack of endgame content, and this is what DE are trying to do while having weekly updates.

 

 

I agree with you. THIS IS WHY I AM PROPOSING DEDICATING ONE... ONLY ONE development cycle for a fix/touch up pass. Is it that we will not wait? Gtfoh lets be serious we will all bech and moan no matter what DE does...they might as well do it anyways... By the way... once Archwings gets here we will be flying through space and whatnot we will be busy... we can wait. I hope that is the plan. To make this update as good as possible and then while we are playing that DE can focus on the unfinished business.

 

Sure, When U15 rolls out we will be busy, but DE want to have more and more content in this game, and again the different Departments do different things, the problem with fixing stuff is time, after all, they have to find the bug and squash it without affecting the core game.

 

 

As a gamer. I would like to enjoy my game more. As a beta tester among MANY, I would like some of the most common, recurring, most upvoted requests to be addressed. Do this help you see how this supports what I am trying to say?

 

As a gamer, I don't WANT to enjoy the game more, I enjoy the game as much as I can while it's here, bugs happen and not all of them have an easy solution so I don't let them deter me from my enjoyment, unless they are game breaking.  As a Beta tester, I want to see Warframe Move forward, and it Weekly content and Bug fixings is the way DE like to do it then I'm fine with that because it works, there's no need to dedicate a single Update number to bug fixing because it already happens.

Edited September 3, 2014 by DarkHybridWolf

[SmokinDevil]

As for bugs, not all are the same. League of Legends had bugs in their game LONGER than the existence of warframe. I know where OP is coming from but I also fully understand the business side. Are you going to buy more plat if next update fixes a bunch of bugs? Probably not. But if I gave you some really cool stuff, yup, plat is coming. Even if it's bugged, the plat has already been purchased.

[Abenoki]

U16 discussion already? My body isnt ready yet....

[Nkomo-Sama]

I actually have posted exactly this on many, many game forums... but I have to switch sides now. Warframe could definitely use a clean-up pass from all departments. Map bugs, weapon clean up/rework/updates, optimization... every other livestream Scott tells us frame balance is waiting because he's busy, we have technical threads ongoing, drop tables...

 

This is not a house that needs just a plumber, it's fixer'up'er that needs everything.

THANK YOU

[Nkomo-Sama]

Again, Just because DE haven't said anything in regards to these that they're not noted, They know people want a better parkour system, they know people want better stealth mechanics, the question is: When can they optimally do it without disregarding new content, after all many people have difficulty in finding things to do in Warframe due to the lack of endgame content, and this is what DE are trying to do while having weekly updates.

 

NKOMO SAMA:  Please see the bottom of the OP

 

Sure, When U15 rolls out we will be busy, but DE want to have more and more content in this game, and again the different Departments do different things, the problem with fixing stuff is time, after all, they have to find the bug and squash it without affecting the core game.

 

HISTORY DOES NOT SUPPORT THIS THEORY. 9 months ago I sounded alot like you.

 

 

As a gamer, I don't WANT to enjoy the game more, I enjoy the game as much as I can while it's here, bugs happen and not all of them have an easy solution so I don't let them deter me from my enjoyment, unless they are game breaking.  As a Beta tester, I want to see Warframe Move forward, and it Weekly content and Bug fixings is the way DE like to do it then I'm fine with that because it works, there's no need to dedicate a single Update number to bug fixing because it already happens.

 

WE ARE DEFINITELY DIFFERENT TYPES OF GAMERS AND THAT IS OKAY. IN A GAME THAT IS CONSTANTLY EVOLVING I WOULD PREFER THAT EVOLUTION TO ALSO INCLUDE A GROWTH IN MY ENJOYMENT. FOR OVER A YEAR THIS GAME HAS DOMINATED MY FREE TIME AND REDUCED MY CONSOLES TO FURNITURE. I MUST REFER YOU TO MY MCDONALDS ANALOGY (FOUND IN POST 65) IN REFERENCE TO THE REMAINDER OF YOUR POST. BY THAT I AM DRAWING A PARALLEL BETWEEN THOSE THAT WILL INDULGE IN MCDONALDS AND YOURSELF. I MEAN NO DISRESPECT BUT AT THE SAME TIME IT IS NOT A COMPLIMENT.

RESPONSES IN BOLD AND CAPS

Edited September 3, 2014 by Nkomo-Sama