Beloved De: U16: Pause Of The Next Big Thing. (Straw Poll Included)

[Eredoc]

1:The Bottom of the OP doesn't seem to add much:

 

BY THE WAY IF U15 ADDRESSES ALL THOSE LITTLE THINGS WE AS A COMMUNITY MAY NOT EMBRACE SO READILY PLEASE BY ALL MEANS IGNORE THIS THREAD

 

So unless I'm not looking at the right part then I'm confused.

 

2: This is hardly a Justified response, there have been times where I have spent days, if not weeks, trying to find some bugs for a C++ program for my studies, the Problem with bug fixing is how noticeable an error is, if a bug has not been fixed it could mean that either;

 

A: The bug has yet to be found

 

B: The bug has been found but a solution has yet to be found

 

To that matter it sounds like you've became impatient with some bug fixings and all I can say is just wait, at some point your bug MAY be fixed, if it can be fixed at all.

 

3: The analogy of McDonalds is confusing, are you trying to say that DE should polish their game and that I'm to blame as the reason they're not? [using myself as a generalisation of those who have commented along the same lines as me].

[SmokinDevil]

The analogy doesn't match up.

 

And there is nothing from stopping the bug from popping up again just because it's fixed now. Fixing this bug may introduce 10 new ones. Introducing new content can make a patched bug reappear and be even worse than before.

[Nkomo-Sama]

1:The Bottom of the OP doesn't seem to add much:

The bottom of the op says "

BY THE WAY IF U15 ADDRESSES ALL THOSE LITTLE THINGS WE AS A COMMUNITY MAY NOT EMBRACE SO READILY PLEASE BY ALL MEANS IGNORE THIS THREAD"

 

That means "if  U15 fixes all the stuff we as a community have been asking about or that we may not be too happy about then please disregard this thread."

 

 

So unless I'm not looking at the right part then I'm confused.

 

2: This is hardly a Justified response, there have been times where I have spent days, if not weeks, trying to find some bugs for a C++ program for my studies, the Problem with bug fixing is how noticeable an error is, if a bug has not been fixed it could mean that either;

 

A: The bug has yet to be found

 

B: The bug has been found but a solution has yet to be found

 

To that matter it sounds like you've became impatient with some bug fixings and all I can say is just wait, at some point your bug MAY be fixed, if it can be fixed at all.

 

3: The analogy of McDonalds is confusing, are you trying to say that DE should polish their game and that I'm to blame as the reason they're not? [using myself as a generalisation of those who have commented along the same lines as me].

Some how this seems to have turned into a debate with a scoreboard attached, It is not my goal to out score you all or even convince you of the validity of my opinion. I have no interest in that. Sooo.. there I win. The analogy is a tree. We are talking about a forest (that means you are focusing on the small picture and not noticing the much larger picture which the smaller picture is only a very small part of). Ok... what I am saying is that the same thinking found in a person who purchases KNOWN toxic "food" and then later tries to sue the company that sold them the world renown established-to-be-toxic "food" can be found in those in defense of not wanting to improve the pillars of this game and will be displayed in the next rant thread of how terrible "this" or "that" is.

 

Mcdonalds analogy unlocked:

I apologize. I often assume people can glean context and meaning from my written word. Then I remember I can be weird and occasionally a bit verbose. Please allow me to elaborate. Mcdonalds is a company that sells a sub par and toxic product as a substitute for food. (in this example I am defining a company that sells a sub par product, I am making a SLIGHT comparison to warframe which I DO NOT think is sub par but it is in need of some attention to core features of it's animation and core mechanics.) Logic would assume that Mcdonalds would be out of business. (by this I am saying that "common" sense would dictate that a company selling documented toxic food would have been bankrupt years ago.) However Mcdonalds is a thriving business. In addition I am drawing a relationship between the thought process of those rendered obese and unhealthy as a direct result of someone eating mcdonalds for years, and then suing MCDONALDS (thereby shifting the responsibility from themselves where it rightfully belongs for patronizing and over indulging.) and relating them to someone who will patronize a business that has released a less than polished (polished not in graphics but in ANIMATION. There is a difference.) product and will then in turn criticize the company for issues that may arise from that product without first requesting the company to make changes that you would find beneficial.

 

 

A bug and a lack of attention to an animation suite are two distinctly different things. For the umpteenth time. What I propose is that once U15 is rolled out that DE take a step back and make some changes with what they currently have...ENEMY BALANCE, Dodge animations, Melee animations, MOBILITY, Performance, IDLE ANIMATIONS, Weapon Skins, ONCE AND FOR ALL GIVING THE DARK DAGGER A STANCE POLARITY THAT IS COMPATIBLE WITH ONE OF THE ONLY 2 STANCES CURRENTLY AVAILABLE FOR IT, FLESHING OUT SOME MORE STANCE COMBOS... allowing pc players full control of the UI with a controller just like xbone/ps4...Jeez... seriously I will have to consult my list/the forums for the most common complaints those are just the few I remember with some of my own..

 

 

At least I can say that those who are against this are DEFINITELY the vocal minority (Thank GOD) as of right now 59% of voters in the poll support 23% are against and 18% don't care either way.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Nkomo-Sama

[Eredoc]

Some how this seems to have turned into a debate with a scoreboard attached, It is not my goal to out score you all or even convince you of the validity of my opinion. I have no interest in that. Sooo.. there I win. The analogy is a tree. We are talking about a forest (that means you are focusing on the small picture and not noticing the much larger picture which the smaller picture is only a very small part of). Ok... what I am saying is that the same thinking found in a person who purchases KNOWN toxic "food" and then later tries to sue the company that sold them the world renown established-to-be-toxic "food" can be found in those in defense of not wanting to improve the pillars of this game and will be displayed in the next rant thread of how terrible "this" or "that" is.

 

SO because a debate of me, trying to understand what you are wanting, and myself trying to explain to you that DE make content alongside the bug fixes somehow gained "A scoreboard" that you win? even though I still have no idea what you're asking because what you're proposing is given along side content

 

Also we do want to improve the "Pillars" of this game, it's just that we understand how a F2P business model works and how game development teams work, therefore, you're analogy is a bust

 

A bug and a lack of attention to an animation suite are two distinctly different things. For the umpteenth time. What I propose is that once U15 is rolled out that DE take a step back and make some changes with what they currently have...ENEMY BALANCE, Dodge animations, Melee animations, MOBILITY, Performance, IDLE ANIMATIONS, Weapon Skins, ONCE AND FOR ALL GIVING THE DARK DAGGER A STANCE POLARITY THAT IS COMPATIBLE WITH ONE OF THE ONLY 2 STANCES CURRENTLY AVAILABLE FOR IT, FLESHING OUT SOME MORE STANCE COMBOS... allowing pc players full control of the UI with a controller just like xbone/ps4...Jeez... seriously I will have to consult my list/the forums for the most common complaints those are just the few I remember with some of my own..

 

 

At least I can say that those who are against this are DEFINITELY the vocal minority (Thank GOD) as of right now 59% of voters in the poll support 23% are against and 18% don't care either way.

 

And here's where I'll make my final post because it's starting to feel like I'm talking to a brick wall:

 

This content that you are asking for is produced alongside Bug fixes, animation touch ups, new weapons etc... people don't realise just how many bug fixes there are, go look at 14.5.0 patch notes there's a huge list of fixed bugs.

 

Also you can't say that we're the vocal minority, just because you have a poll up does not mean that people will vote, I for one didn't and I'm fairly sure that 83 people do not make up the entire Warframe community.

 

Anyway I'm done, Like I said it feels like nothing I say is actually getting through.

Edited September 3, 2014 by DarkHybridWolf

[Nkomo-Sama]

SO because a debate of me, trying to understand what you are wanting, and myself trying to explain to you that DE make content alongside the bug fixes somehow gained "A scoreboard" that you win? even though I still have no idea what you're asking because what you're proposing is given along side content

 

Also we do want to improve the "Pillars" of this game, it's just that we understand how a F2P business model works and how game development teams work, therefore, you're analogy is a bust

 

 

And here's where I'll make my final post because it's starting to feel like I'm talking to a brick wall:

 

This content that you are asking for is produced alongside Bug fixes, animation touch ups, new weapons etc... people don't realise just how many bug fixes there are, go look at 14.5.0 patch notes there's a huge list of fixed bugs.

 

Also you can't say that we're the vocal minority, just because you have a poll up does not mean that people will vote, I for one didn't and I'm fairly sure that 83 people do not make up the entire Warframe community.

 

Anyway I'm done, Like I said it feels like nothing I say is actually getting through.

I see what you are saying. What I am saying is that each new content release causes more NEW gamebreaking bugs to be focused on leaving the old issues, concerns and bugs to be swept under the rug until some fresh pair of eyes can get in and sneak in a fix or 10. See...you are new. When I was new I sounded just like you. It is kind of sad to me that I don't anymore. I still kind of feel like that way and I will still defend DE as the great company they are and having made my all time favorite game. I am simply suggesting that we tidy the game up. I must say I am surprised by the opposition. By the way taking ONE update cycle and dedicating it to tidying it up will not destroy the companies income.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Nkomo-Sama

[DJ_Redwire]

Pretty sure I recall DE_Steve even saying at one point, pretty recently I think, that they WANT to take time and address long standing issues throughout the game, but that to do so isn't sustainable in their business model. Bug fixes don't bring in revenue - new content does.

Edited September 3, 2014 by DJ_Redwire

[Nkomo-Sama]

Pretty sure I recall DE_Steve even saying at one point, pretty recently I think, that they WANT to take time and address long standing issues throughout the game, but that to do so isn't sustainable in their business model. Bug fixes don't bring in revenue - new content does.

This is plausible as many posters here tried to tell me. Heartbreaking but plausible. I would think that dedicating one dev cycle especially during the release of a new staggered  console build would be the perfect time to do it. You have infused a new revenue stream(tbh I have no idea how much)....PS4 and Xbone both updating behind the PC. My favorite dev says it aint so....it aint so. /thread

[Talinoth]

Delaying new content by even one development cycle would be catastrophic for this game.

 

It's been mentioned before, but if people had to wait for two update cycles instead of one to get new content, people would be quitting the game in droves.

 

Many people log in from update to update, completing the new levels/events and scoring the new items before they leave to come back later, repeating the cycle.

But if you delay content by even one update, that makes those players bored of waiting, and they move to other games.

 

This game's monetisation requires the constant creation of new content. If that new content isn't made, people don't splash out big on platinum to buy Update Pack bundles and buy up Prime parts on the market, etc etc.

 

I can see why you're asking for this "Let's push content back while we fix bugs" delay.

 

But... It just. Isn't. Feasible.

 

...

 

Besides, Warframe may have bugs, but I've played very few games that don't have bugs. I don't know about you - but Warframe's bugs aren't severe enough that they interfere with my gameplay.

 

And that's the only real thing you should be measuring DE's success at fixing the game by.

It doesn't matter if "one" particular bug goes unfixed for 12 months. Some bugs are;

 

1: Extremely rare,

2: Very hard to replicate,

3: When you do replicate them, you have no idea why the f*** they're happening

4: Have very little impact on the game and, most importantly

5: Are very, VERY hard to fix.

 

And sometimes, you leave those bugs in, because any time spent trying to tackle such low priority bugs is WASTED when you could have been working on something MUCH more important.

 

You seem to have some kind of misconception - that if you just take some of the programmers who are making content, and just have them pull apart the codebase and fix bugs for a bit, that they can magically make the game perfectly stable (before they release more content which will undoubtedly make the game slightly buggy again, lol).

 

There's no guarantee that they'd fix all of the bugs that are making you mad, and even if they did, they'd be spending very, very limited and valuable time which they need to use to make more content.

 

 

In any business, knowing what your priorities are - what you work on and when - is incredibly important. Making games is undoubtedly no different.

 

DE has - rightly so (see the beginning of this post) - placed a high priority on making content and releasing it as quickly as possible, to appease an often impatient and content-hungry playerbase. I perfectly agree with this plan of action, because we as players serve as testers for that content, saving DE valuable time and money.

 

-

 

I'm sorry. I've read through your posts OP, and considered your argument.

 

But you just haven't logically explained why this would be a good idea at all.

Just because you *want* it to happen doesn't mean it's a good idea.

 

Take a nap. Think through what you want to say. Then present it in logical terms, leaving out the weird metaphors and real life examples with little direct relation to the topic.

 

Remember, the burden's on you to explain why this is a better idea then just releasing more content and releasing bug fixes at the same time.

[Kuestenjung]

As a matter of fact I am positive if for U16 you said "We are not adding anything new at this time we are going to focus on fine tuning what we have" 

 

Then there is no reason to even call it U16. I understand what you are saying with your post, but like others said it won´t happen and I do not want it to happen.

[ndantony]

If you have playing many online games, you would notice that...

...pausing releasing new contents will happen soon or later, and you may call it "pausing," but really is, when the game is dying out and the devs have moved on to another project or focus. The devs and the company may not tell you immediately yet, until after many months later, which is by that time everybody would be long gone.

[Pisirk]

If you have playing many online games, you would notice that... ...pausing releasing new contents will happen soon or later, and you may call it "pausing," but really is, when the game is dying out and the devs have moved on to another project or focus. The devs and the company may not tell you immediately yet, until after many months later, which is by that time everybody would be long gone.

 

That's okay, if warframe dies, we can all hop on Wyrmius.

[ndantony]

That's okay, if warframe dies, we can all hop on Wyrmius.

That doesn't mean that they will make Wyrmius. Another focus is just a company's talk. They each could have also gone working with other companies, and Warframe as you know it, along with your Wyrmius, would never be realized.

[vaugahn]

That doesn't mean that they will make Wyrmius. Another focus is just a company's talk. They each could have also gone working with other companies, and Warframe as you know it, along with your Wyrmius, would never be realized.

Wait, I'm confused. Are you claiming warframe is dying?

[Sebastianx]

I voted Yes, but I know that deep inside I'm dying if we don't get the Focus system Q_Q

[Cpt_Atroxium]

Id rather get two flies in one blow. 

[CorrTerek]

Gotta love all the people who seem to think that once content is created it's just magically added to the game. The same people who are responsible for bugfixing are responsible for coding the new content. If there's a pathfinding bug on the asteroid tileset, adding an ice tileset with its own pathfinding bugs just doubles the workload for the guy who has to fix pathfinding bugs. 

[DJ_Redwire]

This is plausible as many posters here tried to tell me. Heartbreaking but plausible. I would think that dedicating one dev cycle especially during the release of a new staggered  console build would be the perfect time to do it. You have infused a new revenue stream(tbh I have no idea how much)....PS4 and Xbone both updating behind the PC. My favorite dev says it aint so....it aint so. /thread

 

I think you took what I said a little too literally. Remember, pretty much every major update is 30% new content and 70% changes/fixes. And another point that you somewhat brought up was the addition of yet another platform - and with each new platform comes a greater need to address bugs BEFORE an update is shipped to a console platform. 

 

We may never see a big huge intermediate update that is composed of nothing but mechanics reworks, balance changes, bug fixes, and content polishing, but you can be certain that future updates will always be focused more on those changes and fixes rather than new content altogether - as they have been.

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

I think you took what I said a little too literally. Remember, pretty much every major update is 30% new content and 70% changes/fixes. And another point that you somewhat brought up was the addition of yet another platform - and with each new platform comes a greater need to address bugs BEFORE an update is shipped to a console platform. 

 

We may never see a big huge intermediate update that is composed of nothing but mechanics reworks, balance changes, bug fixes, and content polishing, but you can be certain that future updates will always be focused more on those changes and fixes rather than new content altogether - as they have been.

 

I agree.  They shouldn't just revamp the game in one update, even if they did have the resources to do so.

 

I don't even think the player base wants that kind of thing to happen, sweeping changes on multiple things overnight would cause such an uproar.  I believe that incremental improvements/changes is best, because then developers have a chance to "feel things through" with the player base and truly see if the changes are well received or not.

[Monolake]

They cant and they wont pause because NEW stuff gets more people playing and returning to the game (you can even see in steam players numbers).

[Monybags33]

Oh wow this thing is spiraling out of control, I came back after just a single day too see the same guy who posted this just post another 20 times just to get his points across. I'm sure everyone can agree you got the opinion you wanted but its a cold hard fact our of experience that if a person has to reply that many times back then A. Their very frustrated with how the way things work atm. Or B. They are very passionate about wanting something changed. You seem very very angry about getting other peoples opinions the more posts you make, and at this rate the topic will go down the drain and be cut off before its considered.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Monybags33

[Nkomo-Sama]

Gotta love all the people who seem to think that once content is created it's just magically added to the game. The same people who are responsible for bugfixing are responsible for coding the new content. If there's a pathfinding bug on the asteroid tileset, adding an ice tileset with its own pathfinding bugs just doubles the workload for the guy who has to fix pathfinding bugs. 

This is the core of my concern and the inspiration for the thread

[Nkomo-Sama]

.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Nkomo-Sama

[Grulos]

EDIT3: I have been playing warframe almost daily for over one year. I know what I am talking about. The vets were having THIS VERY DISCUSSION within three months of me joining in a thread called Open letter from your vets...the thread has been locked unfortunately.

 

Edit 2 :Thanks for all of your opinions. This is what I asked for. I will try and say this clearly: There have been some instances of bugs and lackadaisical animations/pathing etc.. since U7 That ARE STILL IN THE GAME. ALL I am proposing is that instead of adding new potentially broken content (THAT IS GOING TO REQUIRE MORE HOTFIXES TO WORK AS INTENDED) on top of old-almost-broken-but-totally-non-gamebreaking-content....we stop...take a second and fix the old-almost-broken-but-totally-non-game-breaking-stuff.

 

EXAMPLE :THE Puzzle FIX of U13. Does anyone remember HOW HAPPY DE_REBECCA WAS WHEN THE HACK PUZZLE (BROKEN FROM CLOSED BETA) Warframe was finally fixed U13...

 

EDIT :

YOU ALL SEEM TO  BE MISSING THE POINT. I AM REFERRING TO THE PORTION OF THE STAFF THAT DEVELOPS AND INSTITUTES CHANGES IN THIS GAME NOT THE CREATIVE CONCEPT ARTISTS WHO CAN DO THEIR JOB JUST AS THEY ALWAYS HAVE.

 

 

FIRST OFF: I LOVE THIS GAME FOR MANY REASONS AND THE DE STAFF IS THE BEST.

 

 

 

I LOVE ALL THE NEW ADDITIONS AND AM SURPRISED AND HAPPY FOR EVERY UPDATE THAT ADDS A NEW FACET TO THIS WONDERFUL GAME.

 

 

That being said

 

So for the ENTIRE U16 update cycle can we just kind of PAUSE with the adding of the new things (weapons, stages, enemies, mission types, warframes, sounds, U I changes, AND SOLELY FOCUS on fine tuning what you CURRENTLY have up to that point? (U15) PLEASE??? I love the new additions to the game but sometimes they feel rushed and incomplete. You won't lose us for this. As a matter of fact I am positive if for U16 you said "We are not adding anything new at this time we are going to focus on fine tuning what we have" The community would understand, encourage and be grateful for it. This has been asked many different ways by many different people. I am trying this way. If anyone has an opinion one way or another about this subject please upvote comment or both.

 

Here is a straw poll. http://strawpoll.me/2480157

 

 

BY THE WAY IF U15 ADDRESSES ALL THOSE LITTLE THINGS WE AS A COMMUNITY MAY NOT EMBRACE SO READILY PLEASE BY ALL MEANS IGNORE THIS THREAD

There already should have been major bug fixing and tuning updates. The bugs amassed over the new content additions and only few got fixed.

The main problem is balance.

We now more than ever need a fix-only update, not new, badly executed stuff with even more bugs.

[Nkomo-Sama]

There already should have been major bug fixing and tuning updates. The bugs amassed over the new content additions and only few got fixed.

The main problem is balance.

We now more than ever need a fix-only update, not new, badly executed stuff with even more bugs.

You have been playing this game 2 months longer than me. YOU KNOW what I am talking about. Thank you.

[MadHatHacker]

Oh, yes, DE, please do exactly what Hi-Rez did with Global Agenda: turn your attention away from a successful business model just long enough for the player base to drop, and then immediately focus elsewhere now that the game's profit margin is declining.

Seriously, though, don't do that.