Nkomo-Sama Posted September 3, 2014 Author Share Posted September 3, 2014 (edited) -snip- except for my favorite part Take a nap. Think through what you want to say. Then present it in logical terms, leaving out the weird metaphors and real life examples with little direct relation to the topic. Remember, the burden's on you to explain why this is a better idea then just releasing more content and releasing bug fixes at the same time. I will not make a sweeping comment condemning your quasi-condescending tone nor the fact that your entire wall of text hinges on opinion and speculation and bares no reflection of actual facts kind of like my op. I will however point out that that very same well thought-out wall of text also has little bearing on the OP which you have so carefully read. I am referring to the halt of distribution of new content for ONE dev cycle in order to POLISH the CURRENT CONTENT. (up to U15) Some how bugfixes became the focus of those opposing this idea and has served its purpose as scapegoat long enough. I am talking about issues that have been in discussion since Update 7 and are still prevalent now (generally speaking)....MOBILITY/PARKOUR, ANIMATION, GAMEPLAY DEPTH, UI/CONTROLLER SUPPORT,ENEMY BALANCE.... Just to name a few... These are issues that have had players concerned since my first day over 1 year ago. I know DE does a buttload of fixes and additions. Lord knows this is the best gaming company I have come to know. I admire the personalities and the business model in addition the community participation. However I think what people are responding to in this thread is a knee-jerk "protect DE" reaction rather than truly analyzing what it is that I am trying to promote....but I am NOT BASHING DE....I am guilty of this. I go full PROTECT DE mode in the face of DE-bashing.... If it is not a financially feasible option...Fine I was wrong and I admit that from here also in my OP at the end I wrote basically "hey if u15 addresses the communities concerns then please scrap this thread". . In hindsight though I guess when that whole founders pc exclusive thing that came out it was a poor idea huh? Probably did not generate any revenue huh? That is why prime access does not work right? Trying to offer some exclusives to XBONE OR PS4 would not be a viable option huh while this maintenance is happening? There is nothing we can do right? These are all rhetorical questions posed to provide a new set of eyes on the subject. Do not be so short sighted there are options. Marketing is a hell of a tool. I am one of those people who when you tell me something is not possible I pity your inability to see past your own self-imposed limitations. I am weird like that. It can be done and it should be done. For everyone that "my analogy" which has confounded some of this greatest minds this forum has ever seen and I apologize. I will try one last time to simplify it. I am thinking the obese thing is rubbing a lot of people the wrong way. That's not intended but totally fine. A place of business puts out a product that can use some improvements for it to be better. Some loyal customers will patronize that business because...reasons. Other loyal customers will promote improving the product over patronizing...because reasons Now I am of the opinion that the cust that patronizes that business without promoting improvement is not creating a demand for the improvement of that product it is actually hindering that improvement because if it ain't "broke" (people can still play and have fun) then don't try and fix it.. Thank GOD DE is not comprised of buttholes and they are deciding to fix it anyways. I am just trying to provide an IDEA for a way to do that. It may very well not be feasible in todays market but I do not believe that so easily. I guess it comes down to player loyalty, attention span...and the lack there of. You all seem to be of the opinion that if DE took 2 months to polish the game that everyone would quit. I say your 100% wrong but that is my personal OPINION. I would not leave. Perhaps some of you all would. This is not global agenda or any of those other crappy games I am sure someone will bring up. This game is unique and offers game play that no game before it has dared to try or think of. We waited over 6 months for melee 2.0 and that still is not done it is getting hotfixes all the time. I would believe that the two console revenues (ESPECIALLY IF A FOUNDERS-ESQUE PROGRAM OPENED UP FOR THEM) would manage the dip in pc players. Also I would not want those players to come back anyways but if they did fine.ALso...they will. They may wander and complain but lets face it they will be right here playing this game and in the forums... I mean are the pc players contributing as much as the ps4 players nowadays anyways? Who knows how well Xbone is gonna do. There is NOTHING like warframe on the Xbone...people were soooo happy to hear about it coming to xbone..I have had family in 3 states call me and tell me they are finally playing Warframe....imagine... Edited September 3, 2014 by Nkomo-Sama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talinoth Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 (edited) II am talking about issues that have been in discussion since Update 7 and are still prevalent now (generally speaking)....MOBILITY/PARKOUR, ANIMATION, GAMEPLAY DEPTH, UI/CONTROLLER SUPPORT,ENEMY BALANCE.... Just to name a few... Now we're getting somewhere! See, this isn't just bug-fixing, this is the revamping of old content (quite different really) - and, importantly, this is fairly close to adding new content to the game. I could support this actually. ... But you'd do this alongside adding completely new stuff, lol. Instead of DE completely stopping the development of completely new content, they could just slow it down for U16, so we don't lose large numbers of players between update cycles. Development isn't an all or nothing process. You can work a little on this, then go back to that, then back again. I'd rather they slowed down content release for one cycle rather than completely stopping it, yeah? Might not sound like much of a difference, but it's really, really important. I have seen many games die due to a lack of content releases. It's scary. I don't want it to happen again. - Maybe, for U16, DE could be like "Hey guys! We know that Melee 2.0 was a disgusting mess. So now you can have Melee 3.0! With even more combos that are stronger, more fluid, can be performed while moving, more decapitations and dismemberments, etc. And best of all, Charge Attacks are back!" Ah. Maybe only in my dreams. Having Charge Attacks back would be nice though... But anyway, in this example, alongside that big revamp (again lol) of the melee system, you'd release a small yet still significant amount of new content to balance things out, and keep all of the max-level mastery grinders and update-by-update players from raging on the forums. - To address your specific concerns... Mobility/Parkour I suppose needs some work too. I mean, I don't really notice half the time, because Ichors/Zorens/Dakra slide attacks *are* my mobility, but yes, if you don't have a melee that lets you go fast, movement around the map is slooooow and tedious. Animation... most of the animations in the game are pretty good. But I agree that there are things that need to be fixed. Like the way the Galatine is held almost completely upright against the right shoulder with one hand... it's so unnatural... why the hell does my character hold a humongous zweihander like a one handed sword... why would they put such a stupid ready animation in for such an awesome looking weapon... it's mind boggling... Ugh! Sorry, I went off track. Anyway... Gameplay Depth? Warframe probably needs it, but gameplay depth is usually generated by adding more content. It's a vague, nebulous term though. User Interface... our current one is pretty lackluster - especially the new mod selection/fusion menu. That could definitely use some serious work. High priority work. User interface is one of the most important things in any game, and this one just isn't up to scratch in many places. - And my personal favourite, Enemy Balance. Yeah, some things do need to be tuned up here. Bosses could do with being smarter and tougher. Grineer Seekers shouldn't be among the deadliest enemies in the entire game (even if they're squishy compared to other nasty enemies). Most importantly, infested Ancients should get something cool that they can do that isn't that stupid Scorpion pull they have. - Anyway, all of these things can and do need to be redeveloped, but releasing small but significant amounts of new content at the least is also a priority. Edited September 4, 2014 by PygmyPower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraverLeech37 Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 I really don't see the problem with OP's idea the current content we have could use some fine tuning but I am not saying that everyone but the programers stop doing their job just save the new content they have for the update after u16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angius Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 I really don't see the problem with OP's idea the current content we have could use some fine tuning but I am not saying that everyone but the programers stop doing their job just save the new content they have for the update after u16 Can't you understand, that no content = no income, no content = no players, that majority of players play only from update to update? No new content, especially shipped with a major update = death of Warframe. This game desperately needs content, more, and more, and more, constant flow of new stuff. Making U16: nothing new, just bugfixes is equal to shooting yourself in a knee. With a rocket launcher. There won't be a hotfix-only update, hotfixes bring no income, new stuff does. You can't sell Bug X fix for 75 Plat, you can, however, sell Syandanas, weapons, frames... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndantony Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 (edited) ... There won't be a hotfix-only update, hotfixes bring no income, new stuff does. You can't sell Bug X fix for 75 Plat, you can, however, sell Syandanas, weapons, frames... LOL. True. I think with the f2p model that DE has right now, and the same model that many of us players love, brings in but just enough income for the devs continue daily developments and works on the game. Maybe best suggestion is have them raise the price in the market and sell more exclusive accessories in the Prime Access that the players cannot farm/grind for them anywhere. In facts, it's amazing that DE even got this far for Warframe with the f2p model they have right now. Edited September 4, 2014 by ndantony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nkomo-Sama Posted October 20, 2014 Author Share Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) Can't you understand, that no content = no income, no content = no players, that majority of players play only from update to update? No new content, especially shipped with a major update = death of Warframe. This game desperately needs content, more, and more, and more, constant flow of new stuff. Making U16: nothing new, just bugfixes is equal to shooting yourself in a knee. With a rocket launcher. There won't be a hotfix-only update, hotfixes bring no income, new stuff does. You can't sell Bug X fix for 75 Plat, you can, however, sell Syandanas, weapons, frames... nvm..lowblow Edited October 20, 2014 by Nkomo-Sama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nkomo-Sama Posted October 20, 2014 Author Share Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) LOL. True. I think with the f2p model that DE has right now, and the same model that many of us players love, brings in but just enough income for the devs continue daily developments and works on the game. Maybe best suggestion is have them raise the price in the market and sell more exclusive accessories in the Prime Access that the players cannot farm/grind for them anywhere. In facts, it's amazing that DE even got this far for Warframe with the f2p model they have right now. It looks like DE might actually be gearing up to do something like what you and I are talking about... there is alot of exclusive content coming soon. Also the void token system...DE will make money because 1..they are WORLDWIDE. That paper is rolling in AS IT SHOULD BE. Remember that guys...Don't be stupid. Notice all of the other languages that are translated to. 2. Karma. They are putting out too much good material with a good spirit not to get a good return...their F2P business model being an Overwhelming success is an example of that. I think DE.. I think DE_Steve/Sheldon/Scott/Rebecca/Geoff. I think DE_S/S/S/R/G I think a team of good natured people offering me awesomeness for free so whenever I have money to spend on entertainment or that sweet discount I will support and buy something awesome because when I had no money they still let me play the best game ever made. Edited October 20, 2014 by Nkomo-Sama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nkomo-Sama Posted October 20, 2014 Author Share Posted October 20, 2014 Now we're getting somewhere! See, this isn't just bug-fixing, this is the revamping of old content (quite different really) - and, importantly, this is fairly close to adding new content to the game. I could support this actually. ... But you'd do this alongside adding completely new stuff, lol. Instead of DE completely stopping the development of completely new content, they could just slow it down for U16, so we don't lose large numbers of players between update cycles. Development isn't an all or nothing process. You can work a little on this, then go back to that, then back again. I'd rather they slowed down content release for one cycle rather than completely stopping it, yeah? Might not sound like much of a difference, but it's really, really important. I have seen many games die due to a lack of content releases. It's scary. I don't want it to happen again. - Maybe, for U16, DE could be like "Hey guys! We know that Melee 2.0 was a disgusting mess. So now you can have Melee 3.0! With even more combos that are stronger, more fluid, can be performed while moving, more decapitations and dismemberments, etc. And best of all, Charge Attacks are back!" Ah. Maybe only in my dreams. Having Charge Attacks back would be nice though... But anyway, in this example, alongside that big revamp (again lol) of the melee system, you'd release a small yet still significant amount of new content to balance things out, and keep all of the max-level mastery grinders and update-by-update players from raging on the forums. - To address your specific concerns... Mobility/Parkour I suppose needs some work too. I mean, I don't really notice half the time, because Ichors/Zorens/Dakra slide attacks *are* my mobility, but yes, if you don't have a melee that lets you go fast, movement around the map is slooooow and tedious. Animation... most of the animations in the game are pretty good. But I agree that there are things that need to be fixed. Like the way the Galatine is held almost completely upright against the right shoulder with one hand... it's so unnatural... why the hell does my character hold a humongous zweihander like a one handed sword... why would they put such a stupid ready animation in for such an awesome looking weapon... it's mind boggling... Ugh! Sorry, I went off track. Anyway... Gameplay Depth? Warframe probably needs it, but gameplay depth is usually generated by adding more content. It's a vague, nebulous term though. User Interface... our current one is pretty lackluster - especially the new mod selection/fusion menu. That could definitely use some serious work. High priority work. User interface is one of the most important things in any game, and this one just isn't up to scratch in many places. - And my personal favourite, Enemy Balance. Yeah, some things do need to be tuned up here. Bosses could do with being smarter and tougher. Grineer Seekers shouldn't be among the deadliest enemies in the entire game (even if they're squishy compared to other nasty enemies). Most importantly, infested Ancients should get something cool that they can do that isn't that stupid Scorpion pull they have. - Anyway, all of these things can and do need to be redeveloped, but releasing small but significant amounts of new content at the least is also a priority. A fair and just compromise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nas711 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Forget all this stuff. It's a PVE game. Focus on the E. Please just rework the AI and make us rethink how to play warframe entirely. Throw us a total grenade to the face. I want grineer that come from the back and flank, teleport from no where like stalker, flip dive and barrel roll out of the way, deflect our abilities or use the against us etc etc. Improve the AI and it will feel like a new game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanyizzle Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Voted no. New content is the only thing that keeps me in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nkomo-Sama Posted October 20, 2014 Author Share Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) Voted no. New content is the only thing that keeps me in this game. I have so much shiny stuff to sell you......don't worry by the time you are done with it I will have more for you...they call it F. Gold... I forget what the F stands for but I can definitely get you some for a GREAT price!! credit card info pls? please do not give anyone your credit card info. Especially me. Edited October 20, 2014 by Nkomo-Sama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venarge Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 So for the ENTIRE U16 update cycle can we just kind of PAUSE with the adding of the new things (weapons, stages, enemies, mission types, warframes, sounds, U I changes, AND SOLELY FOCUS on fine tuning what you CURRENTLY have up to that point? (U15) PLEASE??? I love the new additions to the game but sometimes they feel rushed and incomplete. You won't lose us for this. As a matter of fact I am positive if for U16 you said "We are not adding anything new at this time we are going to focus on fine tuning what we have" The community would understand, encourage and be grateful for it. This has been asked many different ways by many different people. I am trying this way. If anyone has an opinion one way or another about this subject please upvote comment or both. So lets give the art designers/ warframe makers/ weapon makers etc all 3 months off and just let the programmers work right :D Dont make me laugh.... And pls. Dont say "the community would understand" since you dont have a clue what the community wants.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sitchrea Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 EDIT3: I have been playing warframe almost daily for over one year. I know what I am talking about. The vets were having THIS VERY DISCUSSION within three months of me joining in a thread called Open letter from your vets...the thread has been locked unfortunately. Edit 2 :Thanks for all of your opinions. This is what I asked for. I will try and say this clearly: There have been some instances of bugs and lackadaisical animations/pathing etc.. since U7 That ARE STILL IN THE GAME. ALL I am proposing is that instead of adding new potentially broken content (THAT IS GOING TO REQUIRE MORE HOTFIXES TO WORK AS INTENDED) on top of old-almost-broken-but-totally-non-gamebreaking-content....we stop...take a second and fix the old-almost-broken-but-totally-non-game-breaking-stuff. EXAMPLE :THE Puzzle FIX of U13. Does anyone remember HOW HAPPY DE_REBECCA WAS WHEN THE HACK PUZZLE (BROKEN FROM CLOSED BETA) Warframe was finally fixed U13... EDIT : YOU ALL SEEM TO BE MISSING THE POINT. I AM REFERRING TO THE PORTION OF THE STAFF THAT DEVELOPS AND INSTITUTES CHANGES IN THIS GAME NOT THE CREATIVE CONCEPT ARTISTS WHO CAN DO THEIR JOB JUST AS THEY ALWAYS HAVE. FIRST OFF: I LOVE THIS GAME FOR MANY REASONS AND THE DE STAFF IS THE BEST. I LOVE ALL THE NEW ADDITIONS AND AM SURPRISED AND HAPPY FOR EVERY UPDATE THAT ADDS A NEW FACET TO THIS WONDERFUL GAME. That being said So for the ENTIRE U16 update cycle can we just kind of PAUSE with the adding of the new things (weapons, stages, enemies, mission types, warframes, sounds, U I changes, AND SOLELY FOCUS on fine tuning what you CURRENTLY have up to that point? (U15) PLEASE??? I love the new additions to the game but sometimes they feel rushed and incomplete. You won't lose us for this. As a matter of fact I am positive if for U16 you said "We are not adding anything new at this time we are going to focus on fine tuning what we have" The community would understand, encourage and be grateful for it. This has been asked many different ways by many different people. I am trying this way. If anyone has an opinion one way or another about this subject please upvote comment or both. Here is a straw poll. http://strawpoll.me/2480157 RESULTS AS OF 10/20/14 Should DE pause any new additions to Warframe (after U15) and address concerns about it's current content ? 1. Yes 159 votes (58%) 2. No 79 votes (29%) 2 TO 1 AGREE THAT WE SHOULD WAIT 3. I dont care 34 votes (13%) 272 total votes BY THE WAY IF U15 ADDRESSES ALL THOSE LITTLE THINGS WE AS A COMMUNITY MAY NOT EMBRACE SO READILY PLEASE BY ALL MEANS IGNORE THIS THREAD Poll speaks for itself. I got over a year of experience in this game and still have yet to see every problem that was faced fixed. I.E. Stealth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MihawkDulacr1 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) The much I might support further bug fixes and existing gameplay improvements, the much i have to say no to your idea as well. Money stuff and all that aside, if DE would be to dedicate an expansion just for bug fixes- that would result in an uproar and maybe not massive but a whole bunch of players would leave and this game might meet the grim reaper at that moment. Compromises however would be fine. Lets say before every major release there will be a major improvement on bug fixes and gameplay(and naturally the major bug fix behind the big update too). So there would be still work for the creative team and those who like it get their bug fixes. And naturally the big update with new stuff comes right behind it. Or any other compromise, but not an expansion that is just a big bug fix. These were just my 2 cents in this matter, i believe in DE that they will lead warframe into the right direction and that they will hear and consider the desires of the community. Edited October 20, 2014 by MihawkDulacr1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nkomo-Sama Posted October 20, 2014 Author Share Posted October 20, 2014 The much I might support further bug fixes and existing gameplay improvements, the much i have to say no to your idea as well. Money stuff and all that aside, if DE would be to dedicate an expansion just for bug fixes- that would result in an uproar and maybe not massive but a whole bunch of players would leave and this game might meet the grim reaper at that moment. Compromises however would be fine. Lets say before every major release there will be a major improvement on bug fixes and gameplay(and naturally the major bug fix behind the big update too). So there would be still work for the creative team and those who like it get their bug fixes. And naturally the big update with new stuff comes right behind it. Or any other compromise, but not an expansion that is just a big bug fix. These were just my 2 cents in this matter, i believe in DE that they will lead warframe into the right direction and that they will hear and consider the desires of the community. This is progressive. I like compromises. The goal is to fix the old issues before more new issues bury them and so on.. Sitchrea made an example of Stealth as something to fix. TECHNICALLY it would not be NEW content but I can ASSURE you eveyone would receive it as new.. it would really be revisiting mapping, A.I.pathing and awareness (as we have already seen done with invisibility and weapons/bumping into an enemy) rewards..etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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