Meta, What Do You Think?

[RSITH]

it's part of the game. people want the best gears, so they will always talk about min-max stuff. i wont enjoy some guys *@##$ing about that all day, but i enjoy discussion occasionally.

He knows ^^

[Yazeth]

Speaking of secondaries: Hikou Prime. Can't wait to finally become a legit Ninja Prime. :D

 

Back on topic, just let people min-max if they want to. Some people enjoy it, others don't. Warframe has a large community, so expect to see many kinds of players.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Yazeth

[Arcane_Intelligence]

I was playing Cryotic Front in Europa as Oberon with Magistar, which are considered as bad/average by some people.

 

Yet I didn´t die once while those Rhino Primes with Boltor Prime/Soma keeps dying constantly.

[thececilmaster]

I was playing Cryotic Front in Europa as Oberon with Magistar, which are considered as bad/average by some people.

 

Yet I didn´t die once while those Rhino Primes with Boltor Prime/Soma keeps dying constantly.

Because Obewan is amazing. And Rhino Prime is typically not use properly.

[paragasu]

The usual people that with me in team dun even care if people use skana...I my self love the Pangolin sword and dark dagger

[GottaGoFast]

I'm Chinese. I'm also American.

 

A cartoon once told me, "What makes a warrior strong is not the weapon, but the warrior holding the weapon."

[Hamco.io]

I am a min-maxer. Anything powerful I'll put a bunch of Forma and try to go for DPS. Doesn't mean I can't have fun.

 

I've also "min-maxed" a Hydroid, albeit only 2 Forma. I still play my Galatine in low level missions, and I have a pair of Catalyzed AKBroncos.

 

It is indeed a way for me to have fun, because I find progression necessary in any MMO I play, and min-maxing, or striving for it, is one of the motivators that keeps me playing, albeit not recently because the recent changes I mostly do not agree with on principle. 

 

However, I can also respect if someone who doesn't want to play "the best" things, because I can understand that some players enjoy playing those things. I cannot say the same about the players who always whine "nerf this nerf that" without regards to other players who may enjoy them though.

 

Coincidentally, I am also Chinese. Traditional Chinese family environment has been sort of a real life "min-maxing", for the best, most efficient things on paper. Many Chinese parents want a male child since it is easier for a male child to make it further in Chinese society. Call me sexist but it's been proven through statistics. They encourage their child to study as hard as possible, strive for perfect grades, get specific jobs, like stereotypcial lawyer, doctor, etc. because they are secure and well paying job. Think of this as min-maxers going for highest, on paper DPS. They ignore things like a child's mental health, physical health to an extent (little time is spent outside exercising and playing as healthy children should), and what I like to believe as a child's right to a childhood. (Think of this as min-maxers ignoring utility, "fun", and whatever other reasons you and I may not use the "best" on paper weapons). 

 

It's not only a coincidence, it's kind of Chinese human nature, to be perfectly honest. I don't put it past them, what works for them may work for them, but may not work for me and you. Either way we should respect their choices of how to play, whether or not they respect ours.

Oh! Good to find someone who came from the same background as me :D

 

But yea, my family is a bit less intense on min-maxing my life, at least they didn't say no when I told them I want to be a barista...

 

And HYDROID!!!! I would love to see you 2-forma build!

[Hamco.io]

Speaking of secondaries: Hikou Prime. Can't wait to finally become a legit Ninja Prime. :D

 

Back on topic, just let people min-max if they want to. Some people enjoy it, others don't. Warframe has a large community, so expect to see many kinds of players.

Same here, I want Hikou Prime so badly! I don't have any shuriken weapon and I think it is going to be my first.

 

And yes, I understand the fact that there will be different types of people out there, just a little bit (just a little bit, really) discouraged when people pop up to you and say the weapon/warframe is useless..

[Yazeth]

And yes, I understand the fact that there will be different types of people out there, just a little bit (just a little bit, really) discouraged when people pop up to you and say the weapon/warframe is useless..

 

Yeah, I get it. It sucks how I was discouraged from using my Ash on T3S (before T4 was a thing). Felt good how I got 50+% dmg contribution in the end.

[C.Aether]

Same here, I want Hikou Prime so badly! I don't have any shuriken weapon and I think it is going to be my first.

 

And yes, I understand the fact that there will be different types of people out there, just a little bit (just a little bit, really) discouraged when people pop up to you and say the weapon/warframe is useless..

Just ignore them.Play your own way,or even prove them they're wrong.

The usefulness is depend on the player.

[Hamco.io]

Yeah, I get it. It sucks how I was discouraged from using my Ash on T3S (before T4 was a thing). Felt good how I got 50+% dmg contribution in the end.

 

Good on you man :D

 

But personally I don't really like taking the DPS thing too seriously, it sometimes makes me spend too much into it, but still, you are doing well :P

[Ritchel]

u easily get affected by that? cant stand on a clan just by that? i think you have a problem

use what u like

Edited September 3, 2014 by Ritchel

[Blatantfool]

 I don't really min-max myself, but I tend to appreciate the insight from those who do. It is helpful to know how to maximize my effectiveness so that if I wanted to I knew what I wanted to do. Besides that, they're some of the most impressive players to play with if they're as good at moving through the map as they are maxing their DPS.

[Hamco.io]

u easily get affected by that? i think you have a problem

Well, I do think I have quite a bit of problems...being too easily affected by other people's opinion, I know that.

 

I'm trying really hard to not give a firetruck on how other people think, but sorry, that's just me :(

[SSI_Kryptix]

To those who do that, if you dont like something, dont use it,no need of complaining, its not like you cant take any other strong weapon. These kind of people can never be avoided.

[Hamco.io]

 I don't really min-max myself, but I tend to appreciate the insight from those who do. It is helpful to know how to maximize my effectiveness so that if I wanted to I knew what I wanted to do. Besides that, they're some of the most impressive players to play with if they're as good at moving through the map as they are maxing their DPS.

I can understand that to a certain extend, I do min-max a lot of my favorite weapons and frames too, just because I like them (look, mechanism, playstyle, and of course, damage), but I simple can't understand why they have to degrade other weapons or frames to make their best weapon look better.

[Hemmo67]

I just use weapon that looks good, feels good and is unique compared to others. power on other hand i do not like cuz what is point been and insta killer and spoil fun for others :c

[CapedBaldy]

Min-maxxing isn't just about DPS, a good min-maxxer knows how to look at the values of a gun and know what it means, unless it has some weird mechanic like the Nukor.

[Sebastianx]

Only yesterday I have discovered that maxing range and efficiency on oberon with a bit of duration makes for a great support frame.

 

Hollowed ground over a pod is so huge that it provides a fighting arena for the whole team where they can't get CC'd, or proc'd.

Renewal barely costs anything if allies are nearby, maybe 10 energy to restore their HP.

And Reckoning while it doesn't really do any damage due to Overextended, the 100% radiation proc chance transforms into a Nyx's Chaos.

 

The only problem with that build is that you run out of mod slots for almost any survivability besides 1 slot, which I chose Vigor since it's my go-to survivability mod on any frame that focuses heavily on powers (which are 90% of my frames).

[Hamco.io]

Only yesterday I have discovered that maxing range and efficiency on oberon with a bit of duration makes for a great support frame.

 

Hollowed ground over a pod is so huge that it provides a fighting arena for the whole team where they can't get CC'd, or proc'd.

Renewal barely costs anything if allies are nearby, maybe 10 energy to restore their HP.

And Reckoning while it doesn't really do any damage due to Overextended, the 100% radiation proc chance transforms into a Nyx's Chaos.

 

The only problem with that build is that you run out of mod slots for almost any survivability besides 1 slot, which I chose Vigor since it's my go-to survivability mod on any frame that focuses heavily on powers (which are 90% of my frames).

hmmm.....looks interesting, guess that's probably a good way of min-maxing Broberon....though not quite sure about the relevancy of the post but anyways, will try it out

[Hamco.io]

Min-maxxing isn't just about DPS, a good min-maxxer knows how to look at the values of a gun and know what it means, unless it has some weird mechanic like the Nukor.

Hmmmm, maybe we are talking a different kind of min-maxing? Fine-tuning every weapon to its full potential is definitely fine for me, I do that too, cause it makes me feel like I am creating something awesome myself.

 

What bothers me is the other kind of min-maxing: minimizing the use of "crappy" weapon/warframe and maximize the use of "top tier" weapon/warframe, so everything became "top tier or crap". People even tend to have other people accept what they believe is the truth, that's the type of min-maxing I have problem understanding. 

[Sev7n]

First of all, I'm a Chinese, and what I saw can't really represent the whole nation of China or the whole community of WF players....

 

But seriously, no matter where I go (forum both English and Chinese ones, different clan chats, even wiki discussion), I can see people rating a weapon/frame as crap because they are not as good as those "best" ones out there (quick example, Detron is a pretty decent weapon by itself but there are a whole lot of people commenting on it like "this is just crap comparing to Brakk/Despair"). And because of that, I couldn't stay in any clan for more than a week, having people talking like that just simply drives me nuts.

 

So guys, is that just me, or is there any other people who also can't stand the way min-maxers comment on stuff? :(

I cant stand it either

Its the reason false meta's are created

[CapedBaldy]

Hmmmm, maybe we are talking a different kind of min-maxing? Fine-tuning every weapon to its full potential is definitely fine for me, I do that too, cause it makes me feel like I am creating something awesome myself.

 

What bothers me is the other kind of min-maxing: minimizing the use of "crappy" weapon/warframe and maximize the use of "top tier" weapon/warframe, so everything became "top tier or crap". People even tend to have other people accept what they believe is the truth, that's the type of min-maxing I have problem understanding. 

Yea, I'm talking about bringing out the full potential of weapons and frames. Now that's the good side of min-maxing. DPS is just one tiny aspect of min-maxing. Some things like max armour Valkyr or Invincibility Trinity are very common knowledge nowadays, but have you ever seen before an Ash lock down an entire map in Interception? Ever seen before a Rhino so fast that he can easily cover all points in Interception? A near invincible Mirage? A Proc Torid that force enemies to stay in the AoE and fight each other at half life? A Lanka that can down enemies in an area with just one shot? A Supra that actually utilizes the fact that bullets are slow to maximize damage output? I'm going to try to make a minimum power duration trinity that specializes in killing single targets, no matter how tough they are, soon.

 

These are the kind of things and mechanics that min-maxers utilize to make the game more interesting. There are still a lot of aspects are either undiscovered or not very well known. These would be things that we would never have without the current mod system, so for those supporting a skill tree, please think about this!

 

I am generally very open minded about builds even if they're not very spectacular. But coming from DotA, a super meta heavy game, I do get unhappy when I see people not know the reason they have this build other than 'it's the popular build' or 'I've seen people play this in competitions and dominate'. I firmly believe that by putting some thought into your build, even if it's as simple as 'Zephyr benefits largely from power duration because it increases Turbulence duration for maximum survivability', it will make players come up with better builds and play their builds more skilfully.

[Somedude1000]

Anything can be made  awesome as fvk while playing, it just depends on how much effort your'e willing to invest into them. 

 

 

Excalibur Miter Kunai Glaive ftw!

[LeoAtKnight]

Yea, I'm talking about bringing out the full potential of weapons and frames. Now that's the good side of min-maxing. DPS is just one tiny aspect of min-maxing. Some things like max armour Valkyr or Invincibility Trinity are very common knowledge nowadays, but have you ever seen before an Ash lock down an entire map in Interception? Ever seen before a Rhino so fast that he can easily cover all points in Interception? A near invincible Mirage? A Proc Torid that force enemies to stay in the AoE and fight each other at half life? A Lanka that can down enemies in an area with just one shot? A Supra that actually utilizes the fact that bullets are slow to maximize damage output? I'm going to try to make a minimum power duration trinity that specializes in killing single targets, no matter how tough they are, soon.

 

These are the kind of things and mechanics that min-maxers utilize to make the game more interesting. There are still a lot of aspects are either undiscovered or not very well known. These would be things that we would never have without the current mod system, so for those supporting a skill tree, please think about this!

 

I am generally very open minded about builds even if they're not very spectacular. But coming from DotA, a super meta heavy game, I do get unhappy when I see people not know the reason they have this build other than 'it's the popular build' or 'I've seen people play this in competitions and dominate'. I firmly believe that by putting some thought into your build, even if it's as simple as 'Zephyr benefits largely from power duration because it increases Turbulence duration for maximum survivability', it will make players come up with better builds and play their builds more skilfully.

Couldn't have said it better myself.