Meta, What Do You Think?

[MeduSalem]

I stopped min-maxing (top tier gear vs crap gear) a long time ago because the game got pretty boring that way. Just "press 4 to win"-spam or take Boltor Prime/Soma and oneshot everything. BORING. Doesn't even remotely feel like a challenge nor are those the weapons I like the most.

 

I like to play with Ember Prime and I like to play with my Grinlok or Ignis. I friggin don't care about if some selfentitled ultra-elitists start to rage when I bring that to a mission though I'm MR17 and should know better. Still faring better than most of those people, still getting downed much less because I learned to overcome the limitations of that gear. I know when I'm able to facetank something and when to pay attention and pick specific enemies out before they get ugly, rather then sitting on a box and nuke everything with a Penta from a distance.

 

I'm no fan of immortal builds... because why do I even play then if there's not even a chance to lose due to me not paying attention? There's no challenge to be had with such builds no matter how difficult the tiers/enemy levels.

 

 

 

Also, there are very bad weapons...such a Glaxion, Skana and many others.

 

There are no such things as very bad weapons. On the Star Chart everything does just fine or at least decent.

 

But I wouldn't expect to get far in T3/T4 endless mission types with some of them. People mostly whine around just because a weapon can't oneshot something in Wave 40 in T4 or whatever... Which is a topic that's pretty ridiculous to begin with.

 

That said there will never be every weapon equal to each other... As much as I'd like to see that the game is no Unreal Tourmanet where every weapon is balanced out in comparison to each other. Warframe has too many RPG elements and therefore there's some sense of progression through the available weapons. Some will eventually do worse than others when taking them against the maximum possible difficulty settings.

 

It's up to the player if the player wants to overcome those limitations with skill or stay lazy and take the easy way.

Edited September 3, 2014 by MeduSalem

[nazgul112]

First, this man isn't a Chinese, Chinese don't talk in this gramma. And Chinese won't repeat "I'm Chinese " so many d amn time without an obvious reason . A 12 year old psycho racist

End of story

[thececilmaster]

Only yesterday I have discovered that maxing range and efficiency on oberon with a bit of duration makes for a great support frame.

 

Hollowed ground over a pod is so huge that it provides a fighting arena for the whole team where they can't get CC'd, or proc'd.

Renewal barely costs anything if allies are nearby, maybe 10 energy to restore their HP.

And Reckoning while it doesn't really do any damage due to Overextended, the 100% radiation proc chance transforms into a Nyx's Chaos.

 

The only problem with that build is that you run out of mod slots for almost any survivability besides 1 slot, which I chose Vigor since it's my go-to survivability mod on any frame that focuses heavily on powers (which are 90% of my frames).

Might I suggest Vitality on this build instead? It'll probably go further toward keeping you alive with Obewan.

[SuperBadPig]

Just ignore them. 

You play with any weapon you want, the most important thing is style and fun. All weapons and frame has its own use. 

Some people like to play with high DPS weapons it is their choice. And this game is not all about DPS, cause if you miss all your shots, then DPS won't really matter. 

 

Use something that is compfortable for you, people saying Brakk is better than Detron they might be right on paper, but not in practice.

Okey Brakk has higher DPS than Detron, I agree, but past a certain level 120+ when one of the best DPS weapon in the game feels like an unmodded Lato, this is where the Detron has it's use. It can be used as a pocket-Nyx due to it's radiation base damage which is a nice utility.

 

In all, don't let other people's opinion influence you, especially those one. I myself prefere to be different from others for example, I used to like the boltor prime, cause of the look, sounds and impale, but then I stopped using it because too many people use it, so I felt like I was just one of "those players using boltor prime". I tried the Sybaris, haven't seen many players playing with it, and I totally loved it. I can most of the time out DPS Rhinos/Boltor prime/ brakk, because I can pop those HS faster from longer distance.

 

It is all about your playstyle and how you take advantage of your assets.

And don't forget to have fun ! ^^ 

[Xievie]

I'm sorry for finding enjoyment in min/maxing, I'm sorry for having fun, and I'm sorry for having a different opinion.

 

On a more constructive note, I don't like either side of min/maxing vs non-min/maxing.

Some people find enjoyment in min/maxing and enjoy being at full power. People like that are usually people who play a game to 100% it or something.

Non-min/maxers are usually players who are more casual and would not care to 100% it. 

 

You never really see people call another person a scrub for not 100%ing a game, and you never see people say "oh those people who 100%... nobody loves them and they should stop playing the game I like". However, when it comes to Warframe and min/maxing, both sides hold an Ichor and <insert whatever melee non-min/maxers use> to eachother's throats just because they don't agree with eachother's opinion.

 

Personally, I am a min/maxer, but occasionally pick up a fun weapon because you know, it doesn't take a whole week to forma a weapon to the point of min/maxing. It's really annoying to see both sides fighting, and I think both sides are at fault to a degree.

-Some Min/maxers are also at EACHOTHER'S throats in discussions.

-Some non-min/maxers hate min/maxers are are absolutely toxic to people who use the Boltor Prime, Brakk, etc. 

 

It's also to a degree DE's fault because there's no way to separate the two (yet). If we got hardcore endgame that only min/maxers could access (without entirely locking that content from non-min/maxers), we'd be cool. A lot of people min/max but have nowhere to use it.

 

Honestly, this game seems to be a casual game (and it doesn't seem like DE currently has any plans to change that), and min/maxers and whatnot have picked it up. 

S#&amp;&#036;, it's just like Pokemon. It's made for kids and stuff but you can pick it up as a more hardcore players and then theorycraft on what the meta is and find ways to wreck other player's S#&amp;&#036;. Both sides don't give a crap about what the other does, so why can't so many Warframe players to do the same?

[Efro_D_Siac]

Well, what do you expect. 

 

I mean, we have all those God-Tier weapons and frames. If you dont use them, play solo.

What frame do you use? Not rhino prime or nova, you say? Please die.

Whats your primary? Not a Boltor Prime? Get out.

And your secondary? Not a Brakk or Marelok? Gtfo.

Your melee? HAH! Scrub, ninjas dont melee. Ever.

 

What I said above is the mindset of those who need to be slapped in the face.

Multiple times.

With a fish.

thank you, it is not seen often but some people really do get riled up when you don't use a certain weapons and frames in a game that has a lot of options when it comes to load outs. with the passive aggressive comments like "gee Ive never seen that used in a serious (insert game mode) before" like calm it down sir and take notes you might be surprised.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Efro_D_Siac

[Babellon]

I like karak, its a good accurate weapon, I've used continuously through out the game. I've beaten every boss with it, gone 30-45 minutes in survivals with it. Other people tell me I'd be better with soma, I think soma is a ammo hog, and not as accurate. I've leveled a lot of weapons, found many of them to be fun. 

I don't mind the min/maxers statistics, I do mind the attitude that preempts new players decision making process by making them feel they are required to have a certain weapon, or frame, to play the game effectively. It is misleading, and over all untrue to say that a weapon is no good, because some calculator on some site says so. What really makes any weapon good or bad, is the player behind it. If a person likes a weapon, they should use it. the same goes for frames. I see people complaining about how people use their powers, some have even called it "cheap" play. I find it interesting, because the point of the powers is to be used. 

When I do group with people, I encourage them to use their powers, fully, I don't mind that they get xx number of kills, or how they got them, the objective is to succeed at the mission, and anything which lends to that principle is certainly acceptable game play to me. 

the MIn/maxxer out there is welcome to do his statistics all he wants, Just don't pass judgement on the rest of us for choosing how we play, or what we play with. 

[xethier]

I like karak, its a good accurate weapon, I've used continuously through out the game. I've beaten every boss with it, gone 30-45 minutes in survivals with it. Other people tell me I'd be better with soma, I think soma is a ammo hog, and not as accurate. I've leveled a lot of weapons, found many of them to be fun. 

I don't mind the min/maxers statistics, I do mind the attitude that preempts new players decision making process by making them feel they are required to have a certain weapon, or frame, to play the game effectively. It is misleading, and over all untrue to say that a weapon is no good, because some calculator on some site says so. What really makes any weapon good or bad, is the player behind it. If a person likes a weapon, they should use it. the same goes for frames. I see people complaining about how people use their powers, some have even called it "cheap" play. I find it interesting, because the point of the powers is to be used. 

When I do group with people, I encourage them to use their powers, fully, I don't mind that they get xx number of kills, or how they got them, the objective is to succeed at the mission, and anything which lends to that principle is certainly acceptable game play to me. 

the MIn/maxxer out there is welcome to do his statistics all he wants, Just don't pass judgement on the rest of us for choosing how we play, or what we play with. 

^^ well said.

 

as for "cheap" play, the only time i start to get frustrated by that is when someone is griefing.

frost throwing snowglobes around specifically to block teammates lines of fire.

trollban tossing bounce under other players.

things of that nature.

 

there is another aspect to this (pvp) but since i don't play it after my few forays into it, i don't really care.

if they like using mirage + hom + penta & bladestorm spam, more power to 'em. i just won't be a part of it ;)

[thececilmaster]

 

-snip-

trollban tossing bounce under other players.

-snip-

But that's so much funnnnnn!!

 

On topic: I think what this thread is boiling down to is that both sides hate it when the other side gets all up in the other's business and decreases their fun. If, as the wise min/maxer xievie said, both sides were to stop taking dumps on each other's parades, and we could all enjoy the game how we wanted without being forced to deal with people that don't want to play with the other group, we'd all be happy.

[xethier]

 

 

But that's so much funnnnnn!!

 

On topic: I think what this thread is boiling down to is that both sides hate it when the other side gets all up in the other's business and decreases their fun. If, as the wise min/maxer xievie said, both sides were to stop taking dumps on each other's parades, and we could all enjoy the game how we wanted without being forced to deal with people that don't want to play with the other group, we'd all be happy.

 

 

i think the problem crops up when one of the min-maxers starts being elitist and demanding certain thresholds when assembling a group.

now i totally understand his attitude and will defend his right to assemble his group however he likes. (it's his game, he can play however he likes)

but it is very frustrating for someone that knows damn-well he can handle himself in that particular match but doesn't meet the criteria that is being requested.

 

the fault doesn't lie completely with the player requesting those thresholds. he's simply using the tools available to try to make sure his chances of success are maximized.

 

DE does hold some of the responsibility because there is no good way to determine relative effectiveness in build. conclave is basically a joke and MR doesn't show anything except a players interest in completion-ism.

[Blowfist]

Loki + nukor+3 forma, and he becomes the god of mischief.

 

Good work by DE in releasing weapons that are finally made for support or fun and not all about the max power.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Blowfist

[xethier]

Loki + nukor+3 forma, and he becomes the god of mischief.

 

Good work by DE in releasing weapons that are finally made for support or fun and not all about the max power.

 

that's exactly what i've been running for the last few days. and it's an absolute blast.

my aklex are 10x more effective, but this really has been a boatload of hilarity.

[Sebastianx]

hmmm.....looks interesting, guess that's probably a good way of min-maxing Broberon....though not quite sure about the relevancy of the post but anyways, will try it out

Was just saying that min-maxing can be done in different ways, but SOME frames/weapons are limited due to how some of their skills are...before the Oberon changes, he was one of those frames where I couldn't figure out a way to min-max him for late-game play, a thing which I do with all my frames...sadly there's a few more that fall into that category, like Saryn, Ash, Ember and Trinity being the ones which I can't for the love of god figure out an end game build for.

[Oriviagene]

The best weapons is what i think is the best weapon imo :)

Don't listen to other ppl lol

[Atmos_Tech]

Why are you all so salty? Fun is............... subjective. I have fun by being the bringer of death to Corpus Tech [150], Napalm [200], or Ancient Healer [9999]. Some people have fun doing other things.

 

Besides, anybody that's as much of a beast as they claim wouldn't be pubbing anything worth min-maxing for. Period.

[(XBOX)Etsoree]

Ok.

 

On-Topic.

People will always be like this, it's human nature, don't try to understand it...just accept it :P

Also, there are very bad weapons...such a Glaxion, Skana and many others.

 

The Glaxion after its nerf/buff is not too bad. Before you just had to throw ammo mods on it, destroying its already low DPS. It's more a fun cosmetic item.

[Vanhline]

min-maxing is unavoidable. its the in the nature of all games based on numbers for a large amount of the population to focus on those numbers.

 

in small tight-nit groups of friends, people likely wont care what you bring. i carry friends around all the time wile they think up new, weird, interesting and useless builds and never have a problem with it because i know i can do most of the work myself. but in a group of people specifically trying to get things done, you bringing a sub-par weapon, actively choosing to bring a gun you know is bad and pulling like 5-10% of group damage; your just holding your group back.

 

so, i guess id say its situational, min-maxing is important if you want to push yourself and your group to the extremes. but in like 80% of the content in this game you could bring a braton and be fine...

[(PSN)Hooligonzo]

I love the Detron.  Threw 4 Formae on mine.  :D

[Vanhline]

I love the Detron.  Threw 4 Formae on mine.  :D

 

yeah detron isnt a "bad" weapon, VS grineer it will out DPS the brakk. 

[Ruh-Ruh]

 

Glaxion is debatable as a "terrible" weapon. First of all, many people who I've seen who have had problems with it were judging it on its ability to kill things. Seeing as it's supposed to be a utility/support weapon, I'm not inclined to take their opinion for more than a grain of salt.

 

First of all, many people who I've seen who have had problems with it were judging it on its ability to kill things.

People judging a weapon by it's ability to kill things, are just wrong.

What the heck am I reading?

Glaxion is a horrible weapon, one of the worst in fact. It at excels at nothing.

There is no damage, no utility.

If you want a gun for procs, then use marelok for example, it gives a 100% proc chance and does Twice the damage of glaxion while also being much more ammo efficient, not to mention it has unlimited range.

Do you understand? A sidearm can put out more damage, more utility with less drawbacks.

We would love to use lot of different weapons and have fun with them, but we can't because some/most weapons are just that bad.

[Clone154769]

I get S#&amp;&#036; all the time for using a Flux & Detron.

...maybe I'm just a fan of LAZORS!!...maybe I have 6 forma rammed into it...its a mystery, nobody really knows.


I cant defend the detron...that proc rate is so low its insignificant, I've gone entire missions and not seen a single proc out of it. :(

[Mesyra]

I'm a min maxer. I find it fun building the most efficient killing machine.

 

there is nothing wrong with min maxing. quanta right now is my favourite, why? because its good at killing things into t4, but its also FUN. boltor P? FUN. Soma sniper? FUN. 

 

the entire game is centered around killing everything. lets have things that are good at that, and lets make things that are efficient at that.

[-Ozymandias-]

Min-maxing is the only way to rate them.  That doesn't mean you can't goof off with crappy frames and gear.  Just don't expect to be allowed to use them in serious games like endless T4 missions.

hah, this guy

you really love to argue and talk $#1t in the forums don't you?

[(PSN)Folkeye]

I don't enjoy one shotting everything, hence I don't bother going for the bestest of the bestest in terms of stats. I use what I enjoy playing with. Right now, I'm still testing out different weapons. When I find my few to settle on, I'll get them up to speed.

[RoninJed]

Unless I'm ranking something up for the xp I use the weapons I like. That's like people think it's not necessary,crazy,or just stupid for me to have a forma 7 nekros, forma 6 supra, forma 5 dual cestra, and forma 3 gram all with catalyst and appropriate colors;) But who cares because for me it's more fun to kill with some style!