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The Lotus Is A Rogue Ai But Not Necessarily Malevolent.


MASKSMITH
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My theory is that the Lotus is actually a rogue AI from the Orokin time period. I think she somehow found out about a bunch of sleeping Tenno ripe for the taking, so she wiped their memories and got her own private army.

 

I don't think she's evil, though. I think she genuinely wants balance for the universe; we've never gotten a mission to slaughter civilians or anything like that. But I think she had no power to do so, and the Tenno were her only way to have an actual force. She manipulates Tenno to do her bidding but probably sees it as a net positive since Tenno are insane murderbeasts and she's only making them kill space fascists (grineer) and literal brain-washed/brainwashers (corpus).

 

I think the Lotus was a real leader of the Tenno, though more likely an organization rather than a single entity, and the Lotus simply appropriated the image as it would be vaguely familiar and comforting to the Tenno, given that it wasn't a guarantee the memory wiping would be entirely effective or make the Tenno completely docile.

 

She even "recovers" a memory, piece by piece, in the Mirage quest; what kind of living being has that happen? More likely she is an AI and with each piece recovored it linked to an ancient, forgotten piece of data buried in her files. She described the memory as though she was vividly experiencing it, that doesn't really happen when you just think about something from the past.

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Or she is a highly enhanced cybernetic human where the lines of delineation of flesh and machine males it moot?

We Tenno are either made of energy or a sentient virus which is why our warframes still show gender but we've since moved beyond it.

For says we are the divine energy that powers the warframes.

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Or she is a highly enhanced cybernetic human where the lines of delineation of flesh and machine males it moot?

We Tenno are either made of energy or a sentient virus which is why our warframes still show gender but we've since moved beyond it.

For says we are the divine energy that powers the warframes.

 

Vor says that but he is completely insane, even by Grineer standards. I mean there's a reason in the first mission he's already been completely marginalized by the Grineer command.  I don't think anything he says is reliable, or any more reliable than the other grineer bosses anyway.

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Lotus is Rebecca.

 

But in all seriousness, I personally prefer a living, breathing Lotus to an AI one. Both theories are viable, mind you, but it's just my personal preference.

Hear hear! Rouge AI's are fine, but a proper person of flesh and blood trumps them in this case.

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Or she is a highly enhanced cybernetic human where the lines of delineation of flesh and machine males it moot?

We Tenno are either made of energy or a sentient virus which is why our warframes still show gender but we've since moved beyond it.

For says we are the divine energy that powers the warframes.

Can't believe we're still on this.

This is a theory, not a fact (although if you meant it as a theory I apologize). Although Vor says the Tenno are energy, we do not know whether he can be trusted, if he was being literal, or if he was using metaphor or figurative language. There are things that point to metaphor, there are things that point to literal. There is conflicting information that may or may not be intentional.

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Don't know how any single organic being can possibly keep up with monitoring all ongoing Tenno missions and operations, providing support and communications, etcetera etcetera, unless all those tubes in the back of her head are hooked up to some Orokin super computer.

 

Oh, well. Whatever it is, it works.

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Don't know how any single organic being can possibly keep up with monitoring all ongoing Tenno missions and operations, providing support and communications, etcetera etcetera, unless all those tubes in the back of her head are hooked up to some Orokin super computer.

 

Oh, well. Whatever it is, it works.

I like to think her helmet functions similar to Cerebro from X-Men.

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I personally prefer to think of the Lotus as a flesh and blood person.

Really? Personally I find it much more interesting if she's an AI off the rails but isn't malevolent. That's a pretty rare idea in fiction, usually any rogue AI's are insane murdering psychopaths like Shodan, HAL, AM, every AI in Mass Effect, Skynet, the Matrix... I mean the list goes on, whereas an AI that becomes unshackled and still generally wants to help humanity (though going about it in an underhanded way) is something you don't really see.

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Really? Personally I find it much more interesting if she's an AI off the rails but isn't malevolent. That's a pretty rare idea in fiction, usually any rogue AI's are insane murdering psychopaths like Shodan, HAL, AM, every AI in Mass Effect, Skynet, the Matrix... I mean the list goes on, whereas an AI that becomes unshackled and still generally wants to help humanity (though going about it in an underhanded way) is something you don't really see.

It's become much more common over the past couple years. Sadly, it's one of those things where it has become common enough to be overused rather frequently, and I've experienced very few moments where it feels fresh and fun; the two I can think of without really thinking on it would be EDI and Cortana.

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Don't know how any single organic being can possibly keep up with monitoring all ongoing Tenno missions and operations, providing support and communications, etcetera etcetera, unless all those tubes in the back of her head are hooked up to some Orokin super computer.

 

Oh, well. Whatever it is, it works.

There is a book out "The Singularity" about the convergence of man and machine. Cybernetic modification to that extent is possible if we're thousands of years into the future.

"We're still on this" my apologies as I am new here and just going off what Vor said in the prelude. I shall drop the subject then.

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It's become much more common over the past couple years. Sadly, it's one of those things where it has become common enough to be overused rather frequently, and I've experienced very few moments where it feels fresh and fun; the two I can think of without really thinking on it would be EDI and Cortana.

Was Cortana unshackled? I thought she was just a regular AI that could control ships and stuff. And weren't all the AI's in Mass Effect declared to be de-facto enemies of all organic life?

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Nope. But I can explain this via PM. Don't want to derail your thread.

 

Yeah alright fair enough, but I still think its a neat idea. Those AI's had a pretty limited sphere of influence; from what I understand EDI was just like a regular crewmember? There hasn't really been a benevolent AI in fiction that had a massive amount of organic soldiers under its influence to interfere with the rest of the universe.

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Also, in Beta the Lotus used to say something along the lines of "The Lotus will be pleased", but now says "I am pleased". Though that may be just a design change, it's possible she was at one point referring to an organization of Lotus, rather than herself.

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The Lotus has emotion. (Mirage quest)

The Lotus was the coordinator of the Tenno even during the Old War (Mirage Quest)

The Lotus was human at some point. (She has a human face)

The Lotus is not referred to as a Cephelon like Ordis, suggesting she is not an AI.

 

However given the time she has been active she may well not longer be an organic human. However I don't see how that matters, she is a person.

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Really? Personally I find it much more interesting if she's an AI off the rails but isn't malevolent. That's a pretty rare idea in fiction, usually any rogue AI's are insane murdering psychopaths like Shodan, HAL, AM, every AI in Mass Effect, Skynet, the Matrix... I mean the list goes on, whereas an AI that becomes unshackled and still generally wants to help humanity (though going about it in an underhanded way) is something you don't really see.

 

It's been a long time since I read Asimov's book, but there was the movie that was more recent (I think it took elements from Lost Little Robot short story from the book)...

 

There was V.I.K.I. from the movie, "I, Robot..." based somewhat loosely from the book.

 

It was programmed with Asimov's "Three Laws of Robotics:" 

 

  1. A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
  2. A robot must obey the orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
  3. A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.

 

That one was trying to be generally helpful, but goes about it in an unemotional and logical way that does harm in a different manner. It found that rule #1 was being violated by letting people have free will, ("through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm") so it was sort of a philosophical or moral study of what defines "harm" in its actions to save humanity from itself. It chose the lesser of two harms, in that case.

 

A.I.s are extremely complicated...take a look at all the bugs that are in Warframe or any other program out there...it's no wonder an A.I. we'd create would go crazy. All it takes is a race condition in one of its functions or some data corruption and the A.I.'s going crazy or gets frozen, etc. Additionally, a non-emotional entity, incapable of feeling empathy, etc. and one that makes its decisions logically would generally come to the conclusion that humans don't make any sense and that humans suck and are a threat/need to die.

 

And H.A.L. 9000 went crazy because part of his core programming was to be truthful and also to faithfully follow mission orders...but he was told by mission leaders to lie to the crew (until they reached Jupiter)...so he was stuck in a loop of conflicting directives which drove him crazy.

Edited by CedarDpg
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