Valkyrs Hysteria Breaks The Game [Fix]

[notionphil]

I finally got around to playing Valkyr and I have to say her Hysteria is so powerful that it makes using her boring. This isn't a post about how to 'balance' the ability. It's about how to make the ability fun to use.

 

Lifesteal + invuln + additional damage + un-fun melee weapon....so basically boring godmode?

 

Sure, there are drawbacks like the lack of firearm access. However, there is literally no skill or strategy involved in using this ability. Hit 4, run around smashing everything for 30 seconds. Have Rage equipped? Goodie, keep doing it until you get bored and force-quit WF.

 

The remainder of Valkyr's kit is about keeping, stunning and debuffing enemies within melee range. However Hysteria doesn't really care about that bc it's godmode. So let's make it care.

 

Note:remember both Ripline and Paralysis already enable finisher attacks.

 

Hysteria 2.0: Valkyr enters into a brutal trance spurred on by squelching her enemies' lives

 

     Melee damage calculation, base duration, claws remains the same.

 

     30% base damage reduction + 20% damage reduction for every enemy within 5m (living or corpse)

 

     No base lifesteal (you can still channel lifesteal during hysteria)

 

     Ripline can be cast for 5 energy while in Hysteria

 

     Every enemy killed with a finisher attack causes:

          -Valk's melee range to increase by 1m (to a max of 5m)

          -movement speed increased by 10% (to a max of +50%)

          -duration of Hysteria to increase by 5 seconds (hardcapped at X seconds)

          -50% of Valk's life regained

 

What does this do?

 

Keeps Hysteria Tanky: but adds a slight skill element to it. To get maximum benefit you must dash/ripline to a crowd, or keep enemies near you...thankfully you have 2 skills that do exactly that.

 

Adds value to other skills: ....Both Ripline and Paralysis already enable finisher attacks. Using them during Hysteria will now let Valkyr extend her duration AND overcome Hysteria's key weakness, range

 

Turn godmode into awesome-ninja-skill-bloodlust-mode: Play well and Hysteria will be an absolute blast.

Edited September 4, 2014 by notionphil

[Janzer]

This is pretty much why I never use, or hardly ever use Hysteria. I run a Rage/Life Strike build already while I'm melee only, so I don't even need Valkyr or Hysteria while using Valk. I hardly ever even use her powers at that...I just like her high armor :D

[AdunSaveMe]

However, there is literally no skill or strategy involved in using this ability.

Yes, because never mind the fact that diving into a group of enemies means you have to kill every single one of them that gets marked or otherwise all their damage will be dumped on you when you come out of hysteria.

 

It doesn't really need changing. If you don't like the fact that there's a godmode, don't use it.

Otherwise you just sound like you're shouting "I don't like this, so I want it changed even though it doesn't affect me!"

 

Goodie, keep doing it until you get bored and force-quit WF.

This implies that people would get bored of it that easily.

I mean, really? People enjoy using Valkyr. They're not gonna quit the game because of Hysteria.

 

It's about how to make the ability fun to use.

It already is fun to use, for many people. Just not for you. I'd be willing to bet changing it would upset more people than it pleases.

 

Also, it gimps Valkyr in scenarios where Hysteria builds focus mostly on staying alive so you don't lose.

So, high level stuff. 50 minute T4 survival stuff. Valkyr is invincible then, which means;

-someone to hit life support

-someone to revive players 

-someone to survive

 

At this point, she does all the above, but she does very little damage.

Take away the invincibility, and you've got a frame that stops being usable later on.

 

Those are just my thoughts. Please don't think I'm trying to shoot your post down.

[Renegade343]

I sincerely hope for the base damage reduction, you meant something like: 

 

30% + sigma (30% * (20%)^n), with sigma having r = 0 to r = n, and n = number of enemies within 5m. 

 

If not, your suggestion implies that it is: 

 

30% + (20%)*n, meaning all it takes for around 3-4 enemies within 5m for Valkyr to be already nigh invulnerable. 

 

If you meant the above formula, then the values will need some tweaking. 

[Frostosti]

I mostly use valkyr with warcry to level up melee weapons faster.

And i do not see much other players using valkyr either. Im afraid that nerfing this frame, will make it go to the garbage pile completely where there are like 15 frames already.

[notionphil]

Yes, because never mind the fact that diving into a group of enemies means you have to kill every single one of them that gets marked or otherwise all their damage will be dumped on you when you come out of hysteria.

 

 

Killing everything around you in a 30 second window, with massive melee buffs, is trivial.

 

I've now forma'd valk and i've only died that way 1x, on a late wave infested dark sector, literally surrounded by a dozen ancients.

 

 

It doesn't really need changing. If you don't like the fact that there's a godmode, don't use it.

Otherwise you just sound like you're shouting "I don't like this, so I want it changed even though it doesn't affect me!"

 

 

The "if you don't like it, don't use it" argument has been refuted time and again. Please see any discussion on balance, such as my Balance 2.0 - The Cost Of Power thread.

 

Warframe abilities should be well-designed with ample risk/reward balance regardless if a particular player wants to use them.

 

 

Also, it gimps Valkyr in scenarios where Hysteria builds focus mostly on staying alive so you don't lose.

So, high level stuff. 50 minute T4 survival stuff. Valkyr is invincible then, which means;

-someone to hit life support

-someone to revive players 

-someone to survive

 

At this point, she does all the above, but she does very little damage.

Take away the invincibility, and you've got a frame that stops being usable later on.

 

 

 

Valkyr would still be invincible, as long as she has 3 enemies around her. She's just not perma-invincible regardless of the situation.

[notionphil]

I sincerely hope for the base damage reduction, you meant something like: 

 

30% + sigma (30% * (20%)^n), with sigma having r = 0 to r = n, and n = number of enemies within 5m. 

 

If not, your suggestion implies that it is: 

 

30% + (20%)*n, meaning all it takes for around 3-4 enemies within 5m for Valkyr to be already nigh invulnerable. 

 

If you meant the above formula, then the values will need some tweaking. 

 

Yes, I do mean that she is invincible with 3-4 enemies around her. The skill-threshold for invulnerability should be low. But it should exist.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

She is invincible because you don't have to kill everything.  If you know you can't finish them all before the end of your timer then you can just run away from them and get out of range so they lose the mark.

 

I mostly use valkyr with warcry to level up melee weapons faster.

And i do not see much other players using valkyr either. Im afraid that nerfing this frame, will make it go to the garbage pile completely where there are like 15 frames already.

I agree.  She is desperate need of a nerf, but DE has a habit of over nerfing things beyond reason.

Edited September 4, 2014 by (PS4)DesecratedFlame

[notionphil]

I mostly use valkyr with warcry to level up melee weapons faster.

And i do not see much other players using valkyr either. Im afraid that nerfing this frame, will make it go to the garbage pile completely where there are like 15 frames already.

 

 

She is invincible because you don't have to kill everything.  If you know you can't finish them all before the end of your timer then you can just run away from them and get out of range so they lose the mark.

 

I agree.  She is desperate need of a nerf, but DE has a habit of over nerfing things beyond reason.

 

Honestly, I don't want to nerf her.

 

I think the ability should have far better offense capabilities, and be able to obtain the same defensive capabilities if some modest skill (simply stay near 3 enemies) are used.

 

Valkyr doesn't feel like a berserker, she currently feels like an invincible turtle with short arms. I think people could get more into her if Hysteria had more upside.

[Zsar]

Play solo defense with Valkyr. Find out that Hysteria makes you lose. Keep shooting.

 

It is a tank ability for a tank frame. Players have to spend their wits on keeping themselves while invulnerable between those who are not and those who try to kill them. Escaping is easy in Warframe. Blocking is hard.

 

... That written, I like the range increment and other changes, which allow it to easier melee more spread out foes. Trading off some damage (as that does not scale up anyway) for that might be nice.

- Or mayhap not, as then the root problem: Enemies still present and shooting (not at Valkyr) when Hysteria ends; becomes prominent even sooner.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Zsar

[Marthrym]

The problem with what you propose OP, is the fact that we pretty much already have that with a simple melee build on Valkyr... The "bonus" thingies with finisher kills and enemies present is just making Hysteria even more boring. Because it makes it even slower. The incentive would be to try to kill as many enemies as possible with finisher attacks. So use Ripline/Paralysis and then finisher.

 

We can already do all that WITHOUT Hysteria, and a lot more easily because melee weapons are still better than the claws. Extreme redundancy here. Not good. And the bonus doesn't make up for the killrate (finisher animation every kill, way too slow) and again redundancy (melee build already does that, and channeling is already here too for more damage and lifesteal when necessary).

 

Note that this is just my opinion, I don't think it's a bad idea at all, it's just that we already have it with the melee build. And the only thing Hysteria has going for it, as much as it pains me, is the damn invulnerability. And cool animatons too, I forgot the animations.^^

[H.Katsura_999]

Nope its balanced

 

the fact that it doesn't scale with higher levels unlike other ultimates makes it balance. 

 

Valkyr needs alot of forma to fit all the rare mods you need to make her endgame viable, hysteria is there just to make her playable at mid levels and if you break the level 35 mark then hysteria becomes a liability rather than an asset.

 

Get all the right mods and forma though then she becomes this immortal object that nothing can destroy even without hysteria. except void lasers, those things will kill you.

[H.Katsura_999]

I mostly use valkyr with warcry to level up melee weapons faster.

And i do not see much other players using valkyr either. Im afraid that nerfing this frame, will make it go to the garbage pile completely where there are like 15 frames already.

If they nerf hysteria then nothing will really change. Sure people who just had her will be pi$$ed because it is a pain to use a fresh valk but people who forma'd her 6 times won't feel a thing. because we don't rely on hysteria for survivability, we don't even bother to survive we just do. 

 

Hysteria has some serious drawbacks in exchange for immortality and if you play her long enough at increasingly high levels you'll notice this drawbacks.

[SteelSoldier]

I would love if I could use my own melee weapon in hysteria, if I could I wouldnt mind god mode going away for some other bonuses.

[JCBeastie]

Seen a lot of these threads latetly.

 

While everyone knows Hysteria has a bunch of issues I think the fix is quite simple really.

 

Valkyr is clearly designed to be tanky and melee focussed; she NEEDS life draining to stay alive, melee is an extremely dangerous place to be, surrounded by enemeies, pinned, knocked down, stunned, gas clouds, damaging auras etc etc. Hysterias invulnerability was clearly a quick and dirty fix to make the skill functional.

 

Most 'hardcore' Valkyr players will herald the Rage, Quick Thinking, Life Strike, Flow build. This requires a few Forma on your frame and is frankly an end-game build that leaves new players and anyone levelling Valkyr stumped.

 

So why not simply make Hysteria exactly that? Make it a toggle ability, scale damage directly from melee weapon (introducing freedom of choice and build), add life drain and mechanic to drain extra energy to negate lethal damage.

 

You'd still have the entire toolkit free to use (Rip Line, Warcry and Paralysis are all good and useful skills for the most part) and you have more freedom in modding your frame.

 

Hysteria would become the go-to "Oh S#&$!" button, either channeling for as long as your energy holds out in a pitched battle, or using for short spurts to top up your health.

[Troll_Logic]

I finally got around to playing Valkyr and I have to say her Hysteria is so powerful that it makes using her boring. This isn't a post about how to 'balance' the ability. It's about how to make the ability fun to use.

 

Lifesteal + invuln + additional damage + un-fun melee weapon....so basically boring godmode?

 

Valkyr's hysteria is like thunderbolt.  It's fine for low level players (bows) but once the player (bow) is leveled up, it's a hindrance.  I've got 5 forma on my Valkyr and she's built for warcry.  Hysteria actually lowers her damage output.  Significantly.  So when I occasionally need to heal, it's an 'OH ****" moment, or I have to revive someone who died right in the middle of things, I use hysteria.  Other than that, not so much.

[Troll_Logic]

So why not simply make Hysteria exactly that? Make it a toggle ability, scale damage directly from melee weapon (introducing freedom of choice and build), add life drain and mechanic to drain extra energy to negate lethal damage.

 

You'd still have the entire toolkit free to use (Rip Line, Warcry and Paralysis are all good and useful skills for the most part) and you have more freedom in modding your frame.

 

Hysteria would become the go-to "Oh S#&$!" button, either channeling for as long as your energy holds out in a pitched battle, or using for short spurts to top up your health.

 

I think toggling it would make Valkyr OP.  Right not, the drawback to using hysteria is significantly lowering damage output for invulnerability.  Making it able to be toggled, letting the player turn it on and off when needed, would completely eliminates the negative balance of using it.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

As a PS4 user I was anxious to use the newly animated Hysteria.

....Then it came and I removed Hysteria from my main Valkyr and built another Valkyr that has the all abilities.

Hysteria seems to be like most Ultimates (somewhat unbalanced in low level content.)

Upon building a Max Power strength build - Hysteria becomes a little more useful (Soloing 100 score Breeding Ground runs while actually killing enemies and not just stealth/invisibility bypass)

Hysteria is balanced with it's high power cost and lack of a decent Ranged attack (Ripline as your only Ranged attack is saddening.)

Personally, I would like to see Godmode-removed and for Hysteria to be reworked to increase damage mitigation based on her Armor. Hysteria should force all incoming ng damage to be applied to health, allowing for use of Paralysis. Should still be immune to status&procs, stuns, etc... (Currently Hysteria makes her Armor rating a useless stat.)

I have a Kara - escapee themed Valkyr uses the Spectra and Obex torture tools. Valkyr's Bonds....but this Valkyr utilizes Redirection as a Damage mod for Paralysis. Paralysis is the only permanent power on this Valkyr. I alternate WarCry with Quick-thinking and Handspring depending on mission. (I do not use Hysteria or Ripline on this 6-forma Valkyr)

I have another 4-forma Valkyr that uses all abilities (mainly built for Specter loadouts). I play this Valkyr much less often.

Hysteria like Trinnity's old Blessing, makes it hard to regather energy with Rage.

If Hysteria would allow me to still take damage only to health/armor, I may be more tempted to use it.

Hysteria has a timely attack reset in between combos/jumps that look cool but hinder attack utility compared to most melee weapons.

I use Paralysis + Obex (Brutal Tide Utility 1-tap combo - only performing the 1st multi-hit attack spinning lunge. Gets you thru Laser doors without falling down and is a fast performing combo. Just 1 melee tap and then slide/block/jump/Paralysis) (Combined with Raksa Protect or Sentinel Guardian - Max Power strength Paralysis is a decent AoE Spam and great for taking out Grineer magnetic doors, dealing with Osprey, and farming 400% melee multiplier (Berserker stacking) on Moa's and Ancients.(This avoids melee finisher animations.)

If Hysteria had a different spin attack (like the handstand leg-split copter kick) along with allowing Damage to Health only, and damage mitigation buff being armor based rather than just Godmode - I might use it more often.

I usually only see other Valkyr Players spamming Hysteria or using Dual Ichor's + WarCry.

Never see Valkyr players attacking enemies with Ripline and rarely see another Valkyr using Paralysis let alone have Shields built for Paralysis damage.

Maybe Hysteria could be a self-health reset upon activation. But if in Hysteria and trying to recast to refill health you get a damage out penalty and increased power cost. (Sorta like how Blessing refills, but to discourage spamming you get penalized either by replenishing less health each cast, dealing weaker melee damage, and/or increased reactivation power cost. (Only applied if trying to recast while alraeadu in Hysteria to "reset health". If you let Hysteria run out and then recsat , like we currently have to do, then no penalty.) This coupled with Hysteria allowing you to be damaged would require more work and thought than the current Godmode and would allow you to use Rage to have energy to stay in Hysteria indefinitely or still go in and out of Hysteria like normal. With staying in Hysteria basically debuffing you in some way.

TL:DR - Remove Godmode and make Hysteria receive health only damage, shield bypass, with an Armor mitigation buff greater than WarCry. Also, allow Hysteria to refill health on activation; can be refilled while in Hysteria but at a fixed power cost and/or debuff amount healed/damage dealt/increased power cost.

[Azawarau]

Yes, because never mind the fact that diving into a group of enemies means you have to kill every single one of them that gets marked or otherwise all their damage will be dumped on you when you come out of hysteria.

 

Because the range on that isnt 5 meters and you arent invincible enough to run and recast right? Its hardly a drawback

 

It doesn't really need changing. If you don't like the fact that there's a godmode, don't use it.

Otherwise you just sound like you're shouting "I don't like this, so I want it changed even though it doesn't affect me!"

 

But thats under the assumption that it doesnt affect me.

 

When another player can god mode through any mission where i have to actually put effort into avoiding traps and enemy fire theres an unbalance

 

When a player can stay entirely immune to damage for over a minute while being free to move and attack theres an issue as well

 

This implies that people would get bored of it that easily.

I mean, really? People enjoy using Valkyr. They're not gonna quit the game because of Hysteria.

 

I enjoy Valkyr. I dont enjoy her godmode and how broken/useless it is

 

She could stand to gain alot from it as a self buff rather than transformation type power

 

It already is fun to use, for many people. Just not for you. I'd be willing to bet changing it would upset more people than it pleases.

 

This is also under the assumption that hysteria wont be any fun without god mode

 

Unless you can prove why it wont be you dont have an argument here

 

Also, it gimps Valkyr in scenarios where Hysteria builds focus mostly on staying alive so you don't lose.

So, high level stuff. 50 minute T4 survival stuff. Valkyr is invincible then, which means;

-someone to hit life support

-someone to revive players 

-someone to survive

 

Without hysteria she can already do this, It actually slows her down

 

At this point, she does all the above, but she does very little damage.

Take away the invincibility, and you've got a frame that stops being usable later on.

 

Again youre wrong

 

I have multiple videos of running hour long T 4 survivals with CC and damage frames all carrying boltor primes and either matching or exceeding their total damage output with less deaths and more revives

 

All of this without a hysteria build

 

It literally slows her down

 

Those are just my thoughts. Please don't think I'm trying to shoot your post down.

 

Same here though thats exactly what im doing

[Ninjamander]

Valkyr's hysteria is like thunderbolt.  It's fine for low level players (bows) but once the player (bow) is leveled up, it's a hindrance.  I've got 5 forma on my Valkyr and she's built for warcry.  Hysteria actually lowers her damage output.  Significantly.  So when I occasionally need to heal, it's an 'OH ****" moment, or I have to revive someone who died right in the middle of things, I use hysteria.  Other than that, not so much.

Totaly agree with this

[Azawarau]

Honestly, I don't want to nerf her.

 

I think the ability should have far better offense capabilities, and be able to obtain the same defensive capabilities if some modest skill (simply stay near 3 enemies) are used.

 

Valkyr doesn't feel like a berserker, she currently feels like an invincible turtle with short arms. I think people could get more into her if Hysteria had more upside.

Use melee life strike build and she plays her role well

 

Play solo defense with Valkyr. Find out that Hysteria makes you lose. Keep shooting.

 

It is a tank ability for a tank frame. Players have to spend their wits on keeping themselves while invulnerable between those who are not and those who try to kill them. Escaping is easy in Warframe. Blocking is hard.

 

... That written, I like the range increment and other changes, which allow it to easier melee more spread out foes. Trading off some damage (as that does not scale up anyway) for that might be nice.

- Or mayhap not, as then the root problem: Enemies still present and shooting (not at Valkyr) when Hysteria ends; becomes prominent even sooner.

Valkyrs only drawback literally is defending objectives

 

This is in general, not just with hysteria

 

Its like saying Ash is bad because hes not great at defending objectives alone

 

Hes a great frame

 

But defense alone isnt his thing

 

Nope its balanced

 

the fact that it doesn't scale with higher levels unlike other ultimates makes it balance. 

 

Valkyr needs alot of forma to fit all the rare mods you need to make her endgame viable, hysteria is there just to make her playable at mid levels and if you break the level 35 mark then hysteria becomes a liability rather than an asset.

 

Get all the right mods and forma though then she becomes this immortal object that nothing can destroy even without hysteria. except void lasers, those things will kill you.

No you dont

 

My GF is using a qt rage LS build without forma and hasnt yet even maxed her frame

 

This is a blunt lie

 

I took her unfinished Valkyr an hour into T 4 survival

 

6 forma

 

Psh, posts like these are jokes

 

If they nerf hysteria then nothing will really change. Sure people who just had her will be pi$$ed because it is a pain to use a fresh valk but people who forma'd her 6 times won't feel a thing. because we don't rely on hysteria for survivability, we don't even bother to survive we just do. 

 

Hysteria has some serious drawbacks in exchange for immortality and if you play her long enough at increasingly high levels you'll notice this drawbacks.

Hysteria only has noticeable drawbacks in defense missions where Valkyr in general isnt the best frame alone

 

The risk/reward factor is bad int eh worst way possible

 

Seen a lot of these threads latetly.

 

While everyone knows Hysteria has a bunch of issues I think the fix is quite simple really.

 

Valkyr is clearly designed to be tanky and melee focussed; she NEEDS life draining to stay alive, melee is an extremely dangerous place to be, surrounded by enemeies, pinned, knocked down, stunned, gas clouds, damaging auras etc etc. Hysterias invulnerability was clearly a quick and dirty fix to make the skill functional.

 

Most 'hardcore' Valkyr players will herald the Rage, Quick Thinking, Life Strike, Flow build. This requires a few Forma on your frame and is frankly an end-game build that leaves new players and anyone levelling Valkyr stumped.

 

So why not simply make Hysteria exactly that? Make it a toggle ability, scale damage directly from melee weapon (introducing freedom of choice and build), add life drain and mechanic to drain extra energy to negate lethal damage.

 

You'd still have the entire toolkit free to use (Rip Line, Warcry and Paralysis are all good and useful skills for the most part) and you have more freedom in modding your frame.

 

Hysteria would become the go-to "Oh S#&$!" button, either channeling for as long as your energy holds out in a pitched battle, or using for short spurts to top up your health.

Again it doesnt require a single forma

[UseAndGo]

Just to say:

 

Just like ppls mentioned before me that Hysteria is really handy tool to revive / invoke some object, but thats that. I keep it on while doing "pugs" just for that, cause I cant be sure that there is another really good CCer to help on out revives.

 

But when with friends and ppls that I know I really dont like to use it or keep it on even, because it really doesnt do anything. Popping hysteria is pretty much instant DPS/DPM lower, sure it has its Life Steal side, but melee weapons with LStrike does exatly the same and you can keep the DPS/DPM.

 

Other Valkyr abilities are more "fun" or practial like Warcry is my favorite. Ripline Spiderman build is hilarious too for some soloing =) but Rarely needed to use on 35-45lvl mobs. Ripline + Para combo can be sometimes handy helper for team mate that wondered off or AoE CC has just dropped and needs to be recasted.. something in that park area.

 

Her (Valkyr's) abilites are little bit overlapping like Hysteria /Warcry /Para are pretty much the same AoE abilies that "slow" enemies.

 

Hilarious sidenote: Before I actually checked Valkyr's abilities I thought Hysteria was like AoE fear ability (WoW priest anyone). And actually that might decent replacement like rank X fear's X amount of enemies away from you for sometime.... just a fast idea.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

If they nerf hysteria then nothing will really change. Sure people who just had her will be pi$$ed because it is a pain to use a fresh valk but people who forma'd her 6 times won't feel a thing. because we don't rely on hysteria for survivability, we don't even bother to survive we just do. 

 

Hysteria has some serious drawbacks in exchange for immortality and if you play her long enough at increasingly high levels you'll notice this drawbacks.

Then you shouldn't mind a Hysteria Nerf.

 

Changes

-remove invulnerability

-drain energy over time when active

+add 75% damage reduction (at max)

+increase health leach (25% of max HP restored per hit per enemy)

+allow skill to be toggled off and on at will

+remove damage from not killing marked enemies

Edited September 4, 2014 by (PS4)DesecratedFlame

[Syntax_Terror]

If you don't like a Warframe, don't play it, there's tons more out there with a wide array of play styles.

 

I for one am happy they finally made Hysteria viable for combat, instead of just being useful for picking up downed teammates.

[Guest Tehnoobshow]

No Snake yet?

PsychedelicSnake PsychedelicSnake PsychedelicSnake

I'm hoping it works like that...