Jump to content

Even More Observations From Melee-Only Game Time


[DE]Momaw
 Share

Recommended Posts

1.) Grineer door traps are total BS.   You can't do anything about the door scanners unless you have a weapon with a huge ground slam radius or one of the thrown "melee" weapons.  Corpus door traps damage you and knock you down if you fail to traverse them properly.  Grineer traps damage you and take away all your energy no matter what.  Grineer door traps should have a scanner or control panel beside the door where it can be bashed, rather than over the door where it can't.

 

(Incidentally, Grineer are being hurt and killed by their own door traps. This can't be deliberate.)

 

2.) Parrying versus Grineer/Corpus is fiddly.  You have to hit your channeling just before their attack hits, and the timing has to be pretty good.  This works fine for enemies with melee weapons, like Butchers, because you can see exactly when their attack will hit because you can see the weapon in their hand.  Does not work well for enemies that are using guns and bash you if you get too close to them.  Maybe I'm just too and crusty, but I find there is not enough of a telegraph on their attack to get the parry to work reliably.

 

2b.) Parrying versus Infested is baffling. Some of them consume your energy when you channel-block them, even if you don't get the parry to work. Some of them get knocked down instead of staggered, and it's not clear whether a counter attack does the same damage as a ground finisher.

 

2c.) Parrying doesn't work at all on heavies? Even using the mod that gives a chance to automatically parry, I could not get a parry and counter on heavies like Napalms or Ancients.  If there is any enemy that melee should work well and effectively on it's these guys. Guns for trash, blades for the elites.

 

3.) Enemies aren't always interrupted when they get interrupted. The point at which you get deeply irritated by being knocked to the ground after you've already knocked your enemy to the ground, is about the second time it happens.

 

4.) Melee needs to scale better. When you have a gun, your fully ranked damage is VASTLY superior to your unranked damage.  Melee's "Pressure Point" doesn't scale as high as Serration or Hornet Strike, nor does it get the massive performance boost of multi-hit mods. Given that melee combat is far more dangerous to the user compared to being able to side-strafe and use cover while using a gun, it must be a more decisive option.

 

5.) Blocking is terrible. As soon as you get out of the little leagues, enemies will completely annihilate your stamina pool if you try and block their attacks.  This needs to not scale based on incoming damage.

 

6.) Modding for melee utility is too compromising. Basically there's a lot of melee mods that change the way melee works for you. Lots of utility options. But you can't afford to use any of it, because by the time you make your melee weapon really great for blocking, or really great for life leeching or whatever else you want to do with it, it does so little damage that there's no longer any point in trying to engage in melee.  To make most of these features work you have to switch to melee mode which means losing your gun which means the melee has to stand on its own feet as your means of killing. Utility without the capacity to actually end the threat is just a waste of time.  Especially a problem for all the fancy mods that cost additional energy when you channel because you simply must mod in maximum channeling efficiency if you do anything with channeling, which costs you another 2 slots and even more damage potential. Which again makes modding for anything but raw damage kind of pointless since ammo is easier to get than energy for all but the most inefficient guns.

 

7.) Some mods are just plain terrible. Equip Finishing Touch, thinking it would lead to a very cool melee style of knocking enemies down then pouncing on them to do massive damage. Realize that the "+60%" is not a final damage multiplier, it's just added onto the existing (much larger) bonus for finisher attacks.   Unequip Finishing Touch and weep over wasted fusion energy.

 

My ongoing impression of the melee-only lifestyle is that it's wonderful and varied and enriching... as long as you do it at low levels where the poor damage scaling and lack of defense allows you to be you combat-effective, and all the derpishness doesn't mean instant death.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I use Valkyr and she seems to solve 100% of your problems.

I think that's the problem. Valkyr is pretty much the only frame that can do that without getting instagibbed. Which shows even more that there is something wrong. And that's before scaling goes crosseyed of course.^^

I agree that when compared to primaries and secondaries, the melee mods are far behind. But I still think it can be viable at higher levels. I use it and I have no problems. Well, Valkyr FTW too, I don't use any other frame for melee builds, for obvious reasons...^^

Edited by Marthrym
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1.) Grineer door traps are total BS.   You can't do anything about the door scanners unless you have a weapon with a huge ground slam radius or one of the thrown "melee" weapons.  Corpus door traps damage you and knock you down if you fail to traverse them properly.  Grineer traps damage you and take away all your energy no matter what.  Grineer door traps should have a scanner or control panel beside the door where it can be bashed, rather than over the door where it can't.

 

(Incidentally, Grineer are being hurt and killed by their own door traps. This can't be deliberate.)

 

2.) Parrying versus Grineer/Corpus is fiddly.  You have to hit your channeling just before their attack hits, and the timing has to be pretty good.  This works fine for enemies with melee weapons, like Butchers, because you can see exactly when their attack will hit because you can see the weapon in their hand.  Does not work well for enemies that are using guns and bash you if you get too close to them.  Maybe I'm just too and crusty, but I find there is not enough of a telegraph on their attack to get the parry to work reliably.

 

2b.) Parrying versus Infested is baffling. Some of them consume your energy when you channel-block them, even if you don't get the parry to work. Some of them get knocked down instead of staggered, and it's not clear whether a counter attack does the same damage as a ground finisher.

 

2c.) Parrying doesn't work at all on heavies? Even using the mod that gives a chance to automatically parry, I could not get a parry and counter on heavies like Napalms or Ancients.  If there is any enemy that melee should work well and effectively on it's these guys. Guns for trash, blades for the elites.

 

3.) Enemies aren't always interrupted when they get interrupted. The point at which you get deeply irritated by being knocked to the ground after you've already knocked your enemy to the ground, is about the second time it happens.

 

4.) Melee needs to scale better. When you have a gun, your fully ranked damage is VASTLY superior to your unranked damage.  Melee's "Pressure Point" doesn't scale as high as Serration or Hornet Strike, nor does it get the massive performance boost of multi-hit mods. Given that melee combat is far more dangerous to the user compared to being able to side-strafe and use cover while using a gun, it must be a more decisive option.

 

5.) Blocking is terrible. As soon as you get out of the little leagues, enemies will completely annihilate your stamina pool if you try and block their attacks.  This needs to not scale based on incoming damage.

 

6.) Modding for melee utility is too compromising. Basically there's a lot of melee mods that change the way melee works for you. Lots of utility options. But you can't afford to use any of it, because by the time you make your melee weapon really great for blocking, or really great for life leeching or whatever else you want to do with it, it does so little damage that there's no longer any point in trying to engage in melee.  To make most of these features work you have to switch to melee mode which means losing your gun which means the melee has to stand on its own feet as your means of killing. Utility without the capacity to actually end the threat is just a waste of time.  Especially a problem for all the fancy mods that cost additional energy when you channel because you simply must mod in maximum channeling efficiency if you do anything with channeling, which costs you another 2 slots and even more damage potential. Which again makes modding for anything but raw damage kind of pointless since ammo is easier to get than energy for all but the most inefficient guns.

 

7.) Some mods are just plain terrible. Equip Finishing Touch, thinking it would lead to a very cool melee style of knocking enemies down then pouncing on them to do massive damage. Realize that the "+60%" is not a final damage multiplier, it's just added onto the existing (much larger) bonus for finisher attacks.   Unequip Finishing Touch and weep over wasted fusion energy.

 

My ongoing impression of the melee-only lifestyle is that it's wonderful and varied and enriching... as long as you do it at low levels where the poor damage scaling and lack of defense allows you to be you combat-effective, and all the derpishness doesn't mean instant death.

I agree with a lot, except the parrying is all rng, there's no skill involved or timing. I have tried and timed it perfect hundreds of times and it never happens.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's always gonna be mods that seemed to be a good idea but are kinda useless in practice, like hacker, cold resist and the one that boosts damage while downed. Yeah it might work in some situations, but those come very rarely.

 

Same thing with finisher, it might be a good idea, but the fact that it takes up mod points that could be used for something else like an elemental mod, which works all the time, just outweighs any damage benefit from the finisher mod. No one, realistically, do finishers for every kill. It's pretty much a mod point gamble whether those mod would come in handy or not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with the points presented in the original post. And i agree with AlphaSierraMike, even though i use finishers on heavy enemies, it doesn't make the small boost from Finisher worth it... Besides, as mentioned in the original post, sometimes heavies will ground pound you even though they're ragdolled...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You're going to need to explain that.  A lot. Because as far as I know, Valkyr has nothing that affects parrying, blocking, grineer door traps, or mod performance.

The only reason I don't hate Grineer scanner-door-thingies is because they punish rushers every time. I love watching them rush through and then cry because they lost their energy, or go down because they lost most shields and there are enemies right behind the door to finish the job. I'd hug the guy who created them just for that^^.

 

Corpus laser doors are easy though, just "copter" through. Slide attacks allow you to pass through without faceplanting all the time.

 

You also make a good point with parrying/blocking. I don't use them much, if at all, because... Well, because they suck.^^'

Edited by Marthrym
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1) Just do an wallrun attack and you can get rid of the grineer trap doors. While for the corpus cameras, just be a little stealthy

Just make sure you actually hit the camera with its tiny hit box with the actual attack, or you will likely land and roll through the magnets. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Grineer door traps don't stop a GOOD (by which I mean despicable) team-abandoner, because they will be on the lookout for them.

 

I don't think there would be any difference whatsoever on the gameplay and people's ability to rush on grineer maps if the door scanner was mounted on the side of the frame instead on the top so it can be melee'd.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...