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This Is Not How Shotguns Work


Jamescell
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Not everyone is aware of the fact that shotguns suffer from both drop-off damage AND spread. In real life a shotguns pellets "drop off" in damage almost as slowly as other standard bullet-using weapons. There is a difference, but for the distances available in-game and the distances required for this difference to be noticeable, the current drop-off is unreasonable, and very overdone. 

 

A bullet must travel a very far distance in order to slow down enough for it to "drop off" in damage. Same goes for shotguns. Yet shotguns have been turned into largely unattractive weapons (with the boar prime as an exception) due to this unjustified drop off damage. I remember the good 'ol days when shotguns were actually viable. Not OP, not metaphorical Somas, just viable. That was before drop off damage. 

 

Obviously, I would like to see drop off damage removed from shotguns. It is a fair proposal, and would allow for the shotgun category to be more commonly used. Keep in mind spread already does a good job of preventing shotguns from excelling at long rage. Having both at once just makes all shotguns that aren't insanely powerful at close range unappealing as yo must essentially be point blank in order to do decent damage.

Edited by Jamescell
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it's just to nerf shotguns

shotguns do more dps than rifles if they are up close

 

And the best rifles do more than shotguns and close range anyway, where shotguns should dominate. The exception might be Boar Prime, which is full auto.

 

Let's get rid of damage falloff. There's no need for it to exist anymore.

Edited by Noble_Cactus
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My 4 forma'd tigrus says otherwise...

I've never understood the complaint about shotguns, I barely even notice the fall off dmg. They seem to do just fine all the way UP to T4 provided they are modded properly etc. Besides, the spread being effective at keeping them from being too accurate at long ranges would be easily countered with tainted shell. That can turn shotguns into long range DMR's that rival the latron in accuracy.

Even at medium range. If your shooting at anything more then 100m away with a shotgun then you should probably consider using your pistol. Removing falloff dmg entirely could very easily have the opposite effect of making them too powerful at long ranges that don't suit their function. I'm not 100% sure at what point the dmg does falloff but if its as terrible as implied then why not increase the distance before fall off instead?

Edited by StinkyPygmy
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My 4 forma'd tigrus says otherwise...

I've never understood the complaint about shotguns, I barely even notice the fall off dmg. They seem to do just fine all the way UP to T4 provided they are modded properly etc. Besides, the spread being effective at keeping them from being too accurate at long ranges would be easily countered with tainted shell. That can turn shotguns into long range DMR's that rival the latron in accuracy.

Even at medium range. If your shooting at anything more then 100m away with a shotgun then you should probably consider using your pistol. Removing falloff dmg entirely could very easily have the opposite effect of making them too powerful at long ranges that don't suit their function. I'm not 100% sure at what point the dmg does falloff but if its as terrible as implied then why not increase the distance before fall off instead?

Why not get rid of the fall-off and balance tainted shell... 

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Why not get rid of the fall-off and balance tainted shell... 

The only way to balance tainted shell would be to nerf it to the point of it being a bit pointless.

'Would make more sense to remove it entirely.

I'm not saying I disagree that falloff dmg needs a look at.

I'm just saying that from my perspective I barely notice it.

It would make more sense to simply increase falloff dmg distance to roughly the extent of what is considered medium range. That way particularly accurate shotguns would feel the dropoff at a more reasonable range.

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I +1'd, but I'd like to say the following:

 

Shotguns aren't used because people don't know how to manage the spread. It's not the damage fall-off, it's the spread, a lot of people DO NOT mod their shotguns for punch-through at all, which is pointlessly stupid as the spread makes it excellent for crowds up to medium range.

 

Another problem with the shotguns is that their reload time is insanely long, which really hurts when the game is fast paced. Long reload times and heavy CC frames go together, but there are better choices for that.

 

The only viable frame to use with a shotgun is Rhino (if you're going to be up in their face) or Loki (where you bring all enemies into melee). Why? Because ranged enemies will never be in the ideal range for a shotgun and you will still have to go up close and personal. So yeah, unfortunately I don't think this idea will happen, but it would be nice if damage fall-off were reduced a little, not taken away, but reduced a little.

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I +1'd, but I'd like to say the following:

 

Shotguns aren't used because people don't know how to manage the spread. It's not the damage fall-off, it's the spread, a lot of people DO NOT mod their shotguns for punch-through at all, which is pointlessly stupid as the spread makes it excellent for crowds up to medium range.

 

Another problem with the shotguns is that their reload time is insanely long, which really hurts when the game is fast paced. Long reload times and heavy CC frames go together, but there are better choices for that.

 

The only viable frame to use with a shotgun is Rhino (if you're going to be up in their face) or Loki (where you bring all enemies into melee). Why? Because ranged enemies will never be in the ideal range for a shotgun and you will still have to go up close and personal. So yeah, unfortunately I don't think this idea will happen, but it would be nice if damage fall-off were reduced a little, not taken away, but reduced a little.

You're 100% right on the punch through point.

I would like too add though that shotguns work amazingly with saryn (great for venom, regardless of whether or not you like it), Booben, Excalabro and most frames actually. I would say mirage, but mirage with just about any weapon is... well... you know... Insane.

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You're 100% right on the punch through point.

I would like too add though that shotguns work amazingly with saryn (great for venom, regardless of whether or not you like it), Booben, Excalabro and most frames actually. I would say mirage, but mirage with just about any weapon is... well... you know... Insane.

Not as well as essentially any other good version of any other a weapon type. Addressing the large crowd damage potential, for one, that's quite situational, (only certain game-modes in which it occurs often, and very rarely in essentially all others) and for two, AOE weapons do a good job of eclipsing shotguns in that regard. 

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You're 100% right on the punch through point.

I would like too add though that shotguns work amazingly with saryn (great for venom, regardless of whether or not you like it), Booben, Excalabro and most frames actually. I would say mirage, but mirage with just about any weapon is... well... you know... Insane.

 

Works well with Booben, but I usually just use a Latron Wratih with Metal Auger since everyone in collected in the center of le Vortex x'D

 

Plus, with booben I can't get into the best range because I am on pod duty .3.

 

But Saryn is nice and I often forget that Excalibur has hard CC so you are right in that regard :).

 

Mirage I would say no though...absolutely not because she has the amprex...for life x'D

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The only way to balance tainted shell would be to nerf it to the point of it being a bit pointless.

'Would make more sense to remove it entirely.

I'm not saying I disagree that falloff dmg needs a look at.

I'm just saying that from my perspective I barely notice it.

It would make more sense to simply increase falloff dmg distance to roughly the extent of what is considered medium range. That way particularly accurate shotguns would feel the dropoff at a more reasonable range.

I'm sorry, but I don't agree at all. If rifles are able to use heavy caliber, trading thier accuracy at range for power up close how is there a problem with tainted shell? Besides, Shotguns like Hek and sobek come with really tight spreads as it is, I dont see many people trading their damage output for tighter spread with tainted shell.

 

Another issue is falloff hurts punch through mods since when you are firing into a line of enemies you will eventually start suffering falloff damage as the pellets travel through them, depending how close you are to the front of the group.

Edited by Blaze200
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It wont, even a slug at 200yds will need some Kentucky rainbow windage.

 

If you're using the right barrel and a stabilized slug you can easily get rifle-like accuracy. Sure, it's easier with a rifle, but it's not a given that shotguns won't hit at range.

 

However, that's purely academic. We don't have a tile large enough for that to even matter, and this is a video game.

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If you're using the right barrel and a stabilized slug you can easily get rifle-like accuracy. Sure, it's easier with a rifle, but it's not a given that shotguns won't hit at range.

 

However, that's purely academic. We don't have a tile large enough for that to even matter, and this is a video game.

 

I would LOVE to see a build out that will give a shottie slug rifle-like accuracy past 150m. What type/brand of slug and shottie are you referring to? I have shot Brenneke slugs out of Ithica deer hunters that I wouldnt fire past 100m. You dont get much more long barrel and stabilized slug...

 

I like academics. 

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I remember the good 'ol days when shotguns were actually viable. Not OP, not metaphorical Somas, just viable. That was before drop off damage. 

Then you'll remember closed beta, when the Hek actually was a metaphorical Soma, and more or less destroyed anything and everything that was unfortunate enough to be in front of it.

 

In fact, the top three weapons during closed beta were the Hek, Gorgon, and Braton Vandal (yes, a Braton). In "the good 'ol days", a shotgun was one of the untouchable top three, and the only other two at the time (Strun and Boar) couldn't compete.

Edited by Vargras
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