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Energy Efficiency And Ability Spammers


Duyet
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The DE really need to do something about this issue because it's making the game less enjoyable.

 

 

 

Here are my reasons why the 75% energy cap is ruining the game:

 

1) 75% energy cap is way too high.

 

- It really is way too high. With maxed efficiency, people use only 25 energy to cast their ultimate abilities.

 

2) Power attribute.

 

- What is the point of having different energy capacity for each warframe when it never runs out? Like Ash having 150 at max level, and Loki has 225. I can spam Blade Storm on my Ash all day and never run out of energy because the blue orbs drop frequently and there are many ways to regain energy (more on this later.) The spammability nature makes this attribute seem pointless.

 

3) Some abilities are very powerful, like Blade Storm and M. Prime.

 

- Some people love to spam their ultimates. When people spam abilities that are powerful, it makes the game way too easy.

 

4) There are plenty of ways to get energy already (Energy Siphon, drops, containers, restore items, etc..)

 

- With so many ways of gaining energy, the 75% efficiency cap is completely unnecessary.

 

5) The energy efficient mods are easily accessible.

 

- Streamline can be found early on and any new player can do vault runs for Fleeting Expertise after having a void key. This means that more people can run around, spamming their ultimates. I made a new account and could already spam abilities within a few days. I didn't need weapons or anything on my Ash. I just Blade Storm'd every thing to death. That's how easy it is to be powerful.

 

6) The game is less enjoyable because people do less work.

 

- Have you ever gotten your preys stolen from an inconsiderate ability spammer, like having an Oberon running up and slamdunking your targets, an Ash coming out of nowhere and murder everything over and over again, or a Nova running ahead and kill everything with the help of M. Prime? I am sure you don't/ wouldn't appreciate it because you play the game for fun, not just to finish missions. Not only is it boring for teammates, it's also boring for the spammers. I mean, who wouldn't get bored of doing nothing but press 4 to win or watch someone that press 4 to win? People spam their ultimates because it's the most effienct way of completing missions, although they may not realize how boring it really is.

 

7) Less variety in game.

 

- Because energy cost is so low, people spam their best moves (usually an ultimate) to get the job done. I have seen Ash's spam Blade Storm, Oberon's spam Reckoning, Valkyr's spam Hysteria, Nekros's spam Desecrate forever( see https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/302198-what-it-means-to-be-nekros/).

 

 

 

So these are why I think the efficiency cap should be much lower. A good start would be to lower the efficiency cap by changing the Streamline and Fleeting Expertise mods. Make it so that.... Idk, like 30% efficiency cap? Streamline- +10% efficiency, Fleeting Expertise- +20% efficiency - 40% duration. Of course, because abilities would be less spammable, strength mods would need to be buffed to make abilities more effective. I am not good with numbers so tell me what you think.

 

If you disagree, then please enlighten me why it shoud stay the way it is.

 

 

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The easiest way to do that is: If you cast a ability before 10 seconds are up the ability needs 2x the energy to cast, THIS STACKS.

 

So if your ult is on 25 energy, then if you use it 2x in 10 seconds intervile it would cause it to cost 50 energy, and so on and so on. :/
 

This would destroy all spamming capability, and 10 seconds is not as long as you think it is. :/

Edited by Feallike
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-40% duration?

what

why not make it -20%

 

The easiest way to do that is: If you cast a ability before 10 seconds are up the ability needs 2x the energy to cast, THIS STACKS.

 

So if your ult is on 25 energy, then if you use it 2x in 10 seconds intervile it would cause it to cost 50 energy, and so on and so on. :/
 

This would destroy all spamming capability, and 10 seconds is not as long as you think it is. :/

 

please no

this is the only way that i can complete potato invasions super fast

Edited by xkillo32
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 I'm going to strongly disagree simply due to the fact Warframe powers make up a huge part of game play for me and limiting their usage as much as you imply would frankly really drain the joy I get from playing the game. The last thing I want is an increased reliance on melee and gunplay.

 

Ooor blocking, or hiding behind cover, or using parkour to dodge bullets. I mean increasing the reason to use those would be AWEFUL! (obvious sarcasm is obvious)

Edited by Feallike
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Technically, the cap is not the MAIN problem. The problem is the "new" efficiency formula! It doesn't work like any other formula in this game. With 75% efficiency, you shouldn't have abilities that only costs 25% of the original value (100 * (1 - 0,75)), but you should rather have abilities that you can cast 75% more often, meaning a cost of cost 57 energy (100 * (1 / (1 + 0,75))).

In other words: Having a theoretical 100% efficiency shouldn't mean that your ability costs 0 energy, it should mean you can cast it twice as often (thus 50 for an ultimate)!

 

So, if they went back to the old PROPER formula they once had, there wouldn't even NEED to be a cap! (It can never reach 0 cost with that formula).

Edited by Azamagon
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I would suggest to also keep in mind that some (possibly a lot?) of energy efficiency builds are constructed parallel to a max power strength build, which requires Blind rage.

 

For example:

 

I use a max efficiency/max power strength build on my Oberon. When (and if) I get Blind rage to rank 10 I would only benefit from a 35% energy efficiency boost.(that is with max streamline and max fleeting, which = +90% energy efficiency, - 55% efficiency from max Blind rage gives you a +35% energy efficiency)

 

Again, this is really only based on how I build some frames, and I can't speak for others, but I don't think that the 75% efficiency cap is as over the top as you're suggesting.

Edited by GhostSwordsman
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Ooor blocking, or hiding behind cover, or using parkour to dodge bullets. I mean increasing the reason to use those would be AWEFUL! (obvious sarcasm is obvious)

can't do that when there are level 100+ enemies in t4 survival that can kill u in one shot

and if this nerf is applied then bye bye long t4 survival

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Guest Tehnoobshow

The problem is that half of the abilities in the game were designed to be spammed. If we had more abilities like Sonar and Bullet Attractor, it wouldn't be a problem.

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-40% duration?

what

why not make it -20%

 
 

please no

this is the only way that i can complete potato invasions super fast

 

 

We get this game is about being fast, but that doesn't justify ability spamming.

 

 

As for energy cap yes it should be lower but that won't stop ability spamming, skills need to be looked at individually and be brought up to par. Otherwise people will still spam 44444444

Edited by cozzi21
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Blah, blah, blah... How far did you went with all those "ULTIS"? You have point in early games but on harder mobs one, two or even three "ULTIS" maxed out with power don't do much dmg. Dmg in Warframe don't scale with difficulty so what you say OP in early game isn't even "normal" dmg dealer in later games.

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"Streamline can be found early on"

Thats all up to RNG, I didn't get mine until Valkyr came out, and I started playing at Nekros update, and I don't really get lucky for derelicts so I don't even have Fleeting

I like using all abilities and honestly for me energy orbs don't seem to show much in my missions so I am entirely against nerfing efficiency

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3).Some abilities are very powerful, like Blade Storm and M. Prime.

- Some people love to spam their ultimates. When people spam abilities that are powerful, it makes the game way too easy.

 

That is just an issue of personal skills. I'm not going to go there. If you think it is easy, then try going to higher lvl maps like T4 Def/Surv past 20 mins and see for yourself how do those "OP skills" fare.

 

4). There are plenty of ways to get energy already (Energy Siphon, drops, containers, restore items, etc..)

 

Not all frames are having a - polarity slot. And not everyone uses Siphon u know. As for drops, containers, those are based on chances, what happens if you really need energy and there are no orbs around? And usually those who don't use Siphon are the ones carrying around the restores. And that also depends on how they mod their frames.

 

5).The energy efficient mods are easily accessible.

 

No. It is purely by luck for drops unless you buy those mods from trading, which a new player hardly has access to. Do you bring an MR2 player into Orokin Derelict with no prior experience whatsoever? And getting Fleeting is purely by luck too unless by trading. I have met players who are so frustrated of running OD because Fleeting just won't drop for them. If a newbie who is already having a hard time going through the horde of Infested, only to find that he still don't get that Fleeting at the end because of RNG, do you still call that "easily accessible"?

 

Personally, I didn't get my Fleeting until my 100+ runs. Call it bad luck or whatever, but it certainly wasn't easily accessible for me.

 

6).The game is less enjoyable because people do less work

 

That is purely your own biased opinion. Even without spamming abilities, you will still get ppl clearing enemies faster with their 'eliteOPgunz, pewpew powah/ Boltor Prime/Ogris/Penta', you gonna complain about the guns making the game too easy later too?

 

6.1).-Have you ever gotten your preys stolen from an inconsiderate ability spammer

-you play the game for fun

 

A truly selfish and contradictory statement. First, you don't like ppl to "KS" your kills. In a coop PVE game. Some people like to spam abilities because its fun for them. Don't like it? That is the matter of their own opinions of "boring". Even Nova's M Prime has been adjusted to "its your kill if you kill those primed targets". Nova is the one easier to being KS now, not you. And even then, its still a PVE game.

 

7).Less variety in game

 

Pretty much the exact same thing you said in number 6 only with modified sentences.

Edited by NeroGrave
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cbf quoting it.

You sir deserve a medal :P

 

The DE really need to do something about this issue because it's making the game less enjoyable.

If you disagree, then please enlighten me why it shoud stay the way it is.

So the 75% efficiency cap is putting a dampener on your fun levels and you think that changing it would somehow inject some more fun into YOUR game experience?

Lets just ignore the fact that players who have worked their asses off on their builds using multiple forma and fusing annoyingly expensive mods for the sole purpose of performing one task will get incredibly ticked off at your proposed change and do it just because YOU aren't having any fun... Wait a minute we just created a bigger problem because those players who undoubtedly outnumber you and those of the same opinion by like 10000 to 1 will either QQ that all of their builds just got screwed over and want DE to change it back pretty much forcing them to do so OR they will quit the game which will be a lost stream of revenue for DE.

Yeah buddy I'm sure DE will get right on that :P

 

Just for the record I don't use a maximized efficiency build on any of my frames (because I personally find them boring) but if I did there would be no words describing exactly how annoyed I would be if a change like this went through.

TL;DR What you're proposing is ridiculous and will hinder more people than it will help, purely to satisfy your own personal fun levels...

Edited by Temporary
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 I'm going to strongly disagree simply due to the fact Warframe powers make up a huge part of game play for me and limiting their usage as much as you imply would frankly really drain the joy I get from playing the game. The last thing I want is an increased reliance on melee and gunplay.

 

I think the cost of many abilities should be decreased. Some first abilities, like Shuriken, Fireball, Rip Line, and Shock would be 10 energy, and second/third's like Molt, Teleport, and Tidal Wave would be 25 energy, for example.

 

People could use abilities more overall, but wouldn't just be using the ultimate (assuming the OP's request is granted).

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Blah, blah, blah... How far did you went with all those "ULTIS"? You have point in early games but on harder mobs one, two or even three "ULTIS" maxed out with power don't do much dmg. Dmg in Warframe don't scale with difficulty so what you say OP in early game isn't even "normal" dmg dealer in later games.

How far? Well, from my alt account, it took me like 3 days to get to Uranus(:D) where I got my Ash parts. When playing with Excalibur, I had to play seriously with these solo missions and went with a group in those defense and survival missions. I didn't play much until i built my Ash, which I got to lvl 30 in a day with the help of affinity booster from the event. And in the same day, I crafted my key to do the vault run. I got Streamline very early during my usage of Excalibur, which I then attach to my Ash with Fleeting. There was an Energy Siphon alert which my clanmate taxi me. So I was all set. I went to every game Blade Storming everything to death. Tier 3 void, more vault runs, I gathered all the mods I need to make Blade Storm powerful. I even played tier 4 games without having a potatoed gun. Of course, I depended on my comrades to kill corrupted vor, which I also depended on others to help with bosses because of my lack of a well modded gun.

 

So how far? I would say pretty far thanks to the power of efficiency and Ash's Blade Storm. I'd say that by that time, I could solo most missions all by myself. And when I play with people, I get the most kills/damage with Blade Storm alone.

 

"Streamline can be found early on"

Thats all up to RNG, I didn't get mine until Valkyr came out, and I started playing at Nekros update, and I don't really get lucky for derelicts so I don't even have Fleeting

I like using all abilities and honestly for me energy orbs don't seem to show much in my missions so I am entirely against nerfing efficiency

You are missing the point here. I am saying it's possible, but I still think it's very likely. I got my streamlines on my alt accounts very early in the game.

 

3).Some abilities are very powerful, like Blade Storm and M. Prime.

- Some people love to spam their ultimates. When people spam abilities that are powerful, it makes the game way too easy.

 

That is just an issue of personal skills. I'm not going to go there. If you think it is easy, then try going to higher lvl maps like T4 Def/Surv past 20 mins and see for yourself how do those "OP skills" fare.

 

4). There are plenty of ways to get energy already (Energy Siphon, drops, containers, restore items, etc..)

 

Not all frames are having a - polarity slot. And not everyone uses Siphon u know. As for drops, containers, those are based on chances, what happens if you really need energy and there are no orbs around? And usually those who don't use Siphon are the ones carrying around the restores. And that also depends on how they mod their frames.

 

5).The energy efficient mods are easily accessible.

 

No. It is purely by luck for drops unless you buy those mods from trading, which a new player hardly has access to. Do you bring an MR2 player into Orokin Derelict with no prior experience whatsoever? And getting Fleeting is purely by luck too unless by trading. I have met players who are so frustrated of running OD because Fleeting just won't drop for them. If a newbie who is already having a hard time going through the horde of Infested, only to find that he still don't get that Fleeting at the end because of RNG, do you still call that "easily accessible"?

 

Personally, I didn't get my Fleeting until my 100+ runs. Call it bad luck or whatever, but it certainly wasn't easily accessible for me.

 

6).The game is less enjoyable because people do less work

 

That is purely your own biased opinion. Even without spamming abilities, you will still get ppl clearing enemies faster with their 'eliteOPgunz, pewpew powah/ Boltor Prime/Ogris/Penta', you gonna complain about the guns making the game too easy later too?

 

6.1).-Have you ever gotten your preys stolen from an inconsiderate ability spammer

-you play the game for fun

 

A truly selfish and contradictory statement. First, you don't like ppl to "KS" your kills. In a coop PVE game. Some people like to spam abilities because its fun for them. Don't like it? That is the matter of their own opinions of "boring". Even Nova's M Prime has been adjusted to "its your kill if you kill those primed targets". Nova is the one easier to being KS now, not you. And even then, its still a PVE game.

 

7).Less variety in game

 

Pretty much the exact same thing you said in number 6 only with modified sentences.

3) LOL, did you really bring T4 into the argument? T4 has how many games in total, like 5? That versus the hundreds other missions where people play more often. So are you saying T4 is the main game, and the rest are unimportant? LOL!!!!! This game revolves around T4!! HAHAHA!!

 

4) Be honest with me, how often do you run out of energy with a max efficiency build + energy siphon + the rest of that stuff? And no, I am not talking about when the energy leechers are around. You can spam your abilities for every mobs and get everything back. And you don't even need a - slot to put on energy siphon. .

 

5) I had my Fleeting within 10 runs, and I had it in like 2-3 runs on my alt account. The point is, you can get it early in the game. Build a damn vault key and have your team carry you and hope for the best. Doesn't matter how good you are. It's available early in the game when you get your first void key if you work for it.

 

6) Abilities are faster to kill with than most primary/melee weapons, and people don't always have or use those AoE guns. If you have never experienced getting KSed by someone by their abilities alone, then I don't know what to say to you. Oberon comes in, Reckoning. Rhino comes in, Stomps. Ash, Blade Storm. Hydroid, Tentacle Swarm. With the right mods, some abilities can kill before you can even get there. Guns need to be aimed precisely and charge up, or whatever. Abilities just need to run up and press a button to wipe out, and it goes through wall and stuff. You need to think this over. Saying that guns kill faster is only true in higher levels where abilities don't scale, but when it still scales it kills everything fast. When playing as Ash, I can outkill guns easily with Blade Storm only.

 

If those guns can kill that fast already, then why are you even bringing this up as a point? You wouldn't mind if the efficiency cap was lowered, would you? You don't need abilities when you have those fast guns already.

 

6.1) I don't understand how it's selfish and contradictory to you. You want to score a kill for your own enjoyment, then a guy comes then boom, kills everything. You go to the next one, then dead again. The maxed efficiency guy goes on to kill everything with his abilities. You get to do nothing. You haven't played with an Ash that does the most kills with his Blade Storm?

 

7) Well, in 6 I was talking about how your teammates won't get much action if you keep spamming your 4, and they get bored. In 7, I was saying that if people keep using one ability, then it's just the idea of "press 4 to win." Not much variety in their playstyle, which I don't think the DE would encourage.

 

 

You sir deserve a medal :P

 

So the 75% efficiency cap is putting a dampener on your fun levels and you think that changing it would somehow inject some more fun into YOUR game experience?

Lets just ignore the fact that players who have worked their asses off on their builds using multiple forma and fusing annoyingly expensive mods for the sole purpose of performing one task will get incredibly ticked off at your proposed change and do it just because YOU aren't having any fun... Wait a minute we just created a bigger problem because those players who undoubtedly outnumber you and those of the same opinion by like 10000 to 1 will either QQ that all of their builds just got screwed over and want DE to change it back pretty much forcing them to do so OR they will quit the game which will be a lost stream of revenue for DE.

Yeah buddy I'm sure DE will get right on that :P

 

Just for the record I don't use a maximized efficiency build on any of my frames (because I personally find them boring) but if I did there would be no words describing exactly how annoyed I would be if a change like this went through.

TL;DR What you're proposing is ridiculous and will hinder more people than it will help, purely to satisfy your own personal fun levels...

I don't understand what the hell you are saying? How would this change mess up people's builds that much? It just means that they wouldn't be able to spam abilities as much as before. Their builds are as effective, but just not spammable. Seriously, what mods are you talking about that is annoying expensive and stuff? Are you talking about Narrow minded because that is the only mod that I can think of that is expensive. I am not talking about a maxed Blind Rage because with that on, people wouldn't be able to spam as much. And how is formaing stuff that hard? You just attach it at level 30, add an aura, then efficiency and spamming abilities, then you will level back up to 30 easily. The way you say it, it sounds like it would take months and a bunch of real life money to get the right mods on your warframe.

 

Bro, you need to take a chill pill and stop being so dramatic.

 

 

I strongly disagree, abilities is a major gameplay feature and restricting use of said abilities will be less fun.

This restriction is to make so that people don't spam their abilities when they don't need it. Things the way it is, is way too easy. A Nova spamming M. Prime all the time and turning this into easy mode. An Ash Blade Storming all day gets most of the kills. There really isn't a restriction because you would still be able to use energy restores and have other means to get back energy. You can still Spam, but just not 100% of the time. How is changing it up so you must use your guns and blades along with your abilities rather than your abilities alone be less fun?

 

Do most people here have this low of an IQ? Seriously, think before you type.

Edited by Duyet
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I'd be really mad if i couldn't spam super jump and slash dash....\ Having nerfs to the efficiency will make simple abilities like this a lot less likeable, especially if you want to use the double for each use

Why even use them if they drain too much energy on a frame that already has a low energy cap in the first place? I don't think I'd be willing to wait a certain amount of time before using a mobility tool, especially if I need to escape quickly

 

 

To add to that, what about blind rage? Most people use fleeting expertise and / or streamline to counter that, the mod drain of fleeting and streamline are extremely high, and if you cannot negate this drain, it makes being able to use an ability in a pinch something you need to put a lot of thought into. Would anyone really invest 20 mod slot points for only a 30% efficiency increase when they feel like they need a more potent set of abilities vs a specific set of enemies?

 

Obtaining 2 rare mods, then maxing them, then equipping them to your warframe (Streamline + fleeting expertise > total 30% efficiency > 20 mod points,  2 slots) in place of so many other mods  that could be used better, for the effect of another rare mod that costs half the drain (intensify > 30% strength > 11 mod points, 1 slot) is going to discourage many people. Even with your proposed buff to strength mods, I highly doubt the Devs would buff one power attribut mod and nerf another to a point where one is too strong and the other is too weak, it would make the power attributes mods extremel imbalanced

 

In conclusion, Part of warframes appeal is being able to freely take multiple courses of action based on how much energy you have, penalising every ability in game simply because a minority of players use abilities unsparingly seems like a horrible idea, I'm sorry OP bro, I'm inclined to be extremely against this idea even though it has potential...

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I'd be really mad if i couldn't spam super jump and slash dash....\ Having nerfs to the efficiency will make simple abilities like this a lot less likeable, especially if you want to use the double for each use

Why even use them if they drain too much energy on a frame that already has a low energy cap in the first place? I don't think I'd be willing to wait a certain amount of time before using a mobility tool, especially if I need to escape quickly

 

 

To add to that, what about blind rage? Most people use fleeting expertise and / or streamline to counter that, the mod drain of fleeting and streamline are extremely high, and if you cannot negate this drain, it makes being able to use an ability in a pinch something you need to put a lot of thought into. Would anyone really invest 20 mod slot points for only a 30% efficiency increase when they feel like they need a more potent set of abilities vs a specific set of enemies?

 

Obtaining 2 rare mods, then maxing them, then equipping them to your warframe (Streamline + fleeting expertise > total 30% efficiency > 20 mod points,  2 slots) in place of so many other mods  that could be used better, for the effect of another rare mod that costs half the drain (intensify > 30% strength > 11 mod points, 1 slot) is going to discourage many people. Even with your proposed buff to strength mods, I highly doubt the Devs would buff one power attribut mod and nerf another to a point where one is too strong and the other is too weak, it would make the power attributes mods extremel imbalanced

 

In conclusion, Part of warframes appeal is being able to freely take multiple courses of action based on how much energy you have, penalising every ability in game simply because a minority of players use abilities unsparingly seems like a horrible idea, I'm sorry OP bro, I'm inclined to be extremely against this idea even though it has potential...

It's not so bad for those abilities that you mentioned. I am playing my Ash with Flow and Streamline, and other stuff. I took off Fleeting Expertise and it is so enjoyable now. I have 300 energy and use my guns, blades, and my weaker abilities most of the times to save energy. When I see a bunch of mobs gathering, I use Blade Storm. I no longer spam Blade Storm after Blade Storm, but there are still people who do that kind of thing. Shortly ago, I played with a Nova that spammed M. Prime throughout the mission. Then when we reach extraction point, the player spammed it 15+ times while waiting for others. So much unneeded energy. I am just pointing out the flaw of this system we have now.

 

As I said above, strength mods need to be adjusted to make it worthwhile. The efficiency it takes should be much less but also provide much more damage of course since energy is more valuable. For instance, Blind Rage would be something like +120% strength, - 40% efficiency. It takes a lot of adjustments(including the slot points), buffing and nerfing stuff to make to make things worth slotting but at the same time to get rid of this spamming problem.

 

As for your example above, Streamline + Fleeting = 30% vs Intensify +30%. With Streamline and Fleeting, you get to spam an ability 10 times vs using intensify alone 7 times with the same amount of energy.

 

Here is how I did the math. Let's say we have an energy pool of 700, and the cost of energy for an ult would be 70. The intensify build without efficiency would be 100 per ult. So with 700 energy pool, you get to use the ult 10 times with the efficiency build and only 7 times with only the intensify build. So with the efficiency, you would be able to spam it 40% more.  Again, I am not into specifics with number. Maybe 30% is way too low, but I feel 50% is too close to the current 75%, which gives rise to this ability spamming problem.

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 I'm going to strongly disagree simply due to the fact Warframe powers make up a huge part of game play for me and limiting their usage as much as you imply would frankly really drain the joy I get from playing the game. The last thing I want is an increased reliance on melee and gunplay.

 

This.

 

A warframe's powers are what makes it unique and interesting, and powers are a large part of what elevates the game above being Just Another Shooter.  People talk about energy being easily available, but if you're NOT using efficiency...for most frames it really isn't. Not every ability is a room-clearing damage monger, and crippling power efficiency builds would seriously devalue any ability that can't pay for itself by producing energy orbs (i.e. kills) when used, so really you're just forcing people into more tightly prescribed powers that can.

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Ability spamming isn't necessarily a bad thing. 
Abilities like Shock, Fireball, Slash Dash, Rhino Charge, can be used in excess and in excess of excess without causing damage to the game.  They still require and maintain some form of player engagement with the system. And generally due to their limitations in terms of affected area will still require gun/melee play to be effective.
To limit the potential for their 'spam', is worse than letting the spamming of ults go on.

Ultimates, and some other abilities are too flexible or too free on use for their level of power. 

 

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I would like to agree with you... but I'm not going to. I main Volt (pre/post-buff) and almost never use overload; it deals trivial damage in higher level missions, where I spend most of my time. I only use his three other abilities: shock for the high stun chance, speed because I like being fast and couldn't be bothered to deal with rush's 11 mod slot cost, and electric shield for general cover usage and to increase my damage as needed for higher leveled missions.

 

I couldn't really give a flying fish for everyone spamming their ultimate abilities since I get the exp from their kills anyway (given that I'm a certain distance from them). And even if I don't get the exp from their kills because we're too far apart, it's not like the grineer are ever going to stop their cloning; the infested numbers will only keep growing, and greedy corpus traders are everywhere. Enemies to kill will not stop flowing, so I'm down for a bit of kill-stealing here and there. Plus, the more they steal my kills, the more I can kick back and relax while my equipment gets some free levels.

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It's not so bad for those abilities that you mentioned. I am playing my Ash with Flow and Streamline, and other stuff. I took off Fleeting Expertise and it is so enjoyable now. I have 300 energy and use my guns, blades, and my weaker abilities most of the times to save energy. When I see a bunch of mobs gathering, I use Blade Storm. I no longer spam Blade Storm after Blade Storm, but there are still people who do that kind of thing. Shortly ago, I played with a Nova that spammed M. Prime throughout the mission. Then when we reach extraction point, the player spammed it 15+ times while waiting for others. So much unneeded energy. I am just pointing out the flaw of this system we have now.

 

As I said above, strength mods need to be adjusted to make it worthwhile. The efficiency it takes should be much less but also provide much more damage of course since energy is more valuable. For instance, Blind Rage would be something like +120% strength, - 40% efficiency. It takes a lot of adjustments(including the slot points), buffing and nerfing stuff to make to make things worth slotting but at the same time to get rid of this spamming problem.

 

As for your example above, Streamline + Fleeting = 30% vs Intensify +30%. With Streamline and Fleeting, you get to spam an ability 10 times vs using intensify alone 7 times with the same amount of energy.

 

Here is how I did the math. Let's say we have an energy pool of 700, and the cost of energy for an ult would be 70. The intensify build without efficiency would be 100 per ult. So with 700 energy pool, you get to use the ult 10 times with the efficiency build and only 7 times with only the intensify build. So with the efficiency, you would be able to spam it 40% more.  Again, I am not into specifics with number. Maybe 30% is way too low, but I feel 50% is too close to the current 75%, which gives rise to this ability spamming problem.

 

You seem to have completely ditched your idea abut doubling the energy cost for consecutive use of an ability ('2 X cost each time you use it again), if  wanted to use slash dash twice in a row ,without efficiency, Id have to spend 75 energy, in example, and thats out of excals 150 energy, putting me at a severe disadvantage if I needed to use another ability after that. Why should anyone have to equip mods the way you do, with flow and streamline for a simple mobility tool? 

 

That also makjes it 30 energy for a double super jump, 30 energy I'd rather use casting radial blind, but nope, i have to spend one fifth of my energy pool on using a mobility ability twice  simply because some nova was once out there spamming Mol P.

 

And what about channeling builds? With this much energy being spent simply on the use of abilities, it becomes extremely tedious to use a channeling build even at max efficiency, especially if you intend to use those - efficiency channeling mods, because half of the energy pool you have is thrown into abilities already.

 

Strength mods being overcharged to that level sounds good in theory, but what if I told you that your 2x energy cost for consecutive use means that any frame with blind rage on loses all its energy after using even its first ability twice? Limiting playstyle simply because of a few bad experiences with spammers is still, in my opinion a bad idea. 

 

You also did not acknowledge how imbalanced the power ability mods would be if strength could go to that level with the efficiency. The current system is balanced enough, throwing on extra strength on strength mods and taking away efficiency mods would be a idea. In example, who in the right mind would equip a mod that only gives you a 10% boost at the cost of 9 whole points when they can equip a strength mod with almost quintuple the percentage (assuming you want to buff intensify to 50%) for 11 points? 

 

Once again, one of the most interesting aspects of warframe is the abilities, and yet you are asking for them to be severely limited simply because a few people killsteal. 

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Ability spamming isn't necessarily a bad thing. 

Abilities like Shock, Fireball, Slash Dash, Rhino Charge, can be used in excess and in excess of excess without causing damage to the game.  They still require and maintain some form of player engagement with the system. And generally due to their limitations in terms of affected area will still require gun/melee play to be effective.

To limit the potential for their 'spam', is worse than letting the spamming of ults go on.

Ultimates, and some other abilities are too flexible or too free on use for their level of power. 

 

I don't approve of spamming 1's either. Spamming is just bad. I see warframe abilities as something to assist with the fighting, not to be the main attackers. We should rely on guns and blades to do the fighting, and use our special powers when we really need them. 

 

Like I used to spam my 1, Shuriken on my Ash. Cost 6 energy for 750 damage x 2 and the bleeding effect. Sometimes I saw mobs, and just 1 1 1 1 1 1 1, and they all die. So spamming 1 is the same as spamming 4, IMO, but on a smaller scale. I really didn't need to spam 1, but I did it because of so many energy and energy efficiency. There are times when i really need 1, but most of the times I don't. People just need to play smart and not just depending on their abilities to save them.

 

If it's an ability that was really needed for the frame, then the DE would just need to lower the energy cost. Keeping a game that a player can spam an ultimate 15+ times is a recipe for disaster.

I would like to agree with you... but I'm not going to. I main Volt (pre/post-buff) and almost never use overload; it deals trivial damage in higher level missions, where I spend most of my time. I only use his three other abilities: shock for the high stun chance, speed because I like being fast and couldn't be bothered to deal with rush's 11 mod slot cost, and electric shield for general cover usage and to increase my damage as needed for higher leveled missions.

 

I couldn't really give a flying fish for everyone spamming their ultimate abilities since I get the exp from their kills anyway (given that I'm a certain distance from them). And even if I don't get the exp from their kills because we're too far apart, it's not like the grineer are ever going to stop their cloning; the infested numbers will only keep growing, and greedy corpus traders are everywhere. Enemies to kill will not stop flowing, so I'm down for a bit of kill-stealing here and there. Plus, the more they steal my kills, the more I can kick back and relax while my equipment gets some free levels.

It has been a while since I last used Volt. I don't remember much, but Volt's is Corpus killer. I remember killing Corpus with Overload on the highest level planets and turning off the lights. The 1 would kill, or at least nearly kill them. That wasn't the case with Grineer and Infested though. Since you main Volt, I am sure you know how to play him well.. But I am curious that maybe you are not using him for the right job? I see him as the best room cleaners on Corpus maps. Not changing the energy efficiency because of one frame not doing well because of fighting the wrong factions is not a good reason to let people to continue with their annoying ult spam. If spamming was left the way it is now, then Volt could continue to spam 1 and kill all the Corpus. And don't forget that the DE said that abilities are not supposed to scale, or something along that line. If you went too far, then it's at your own risk. It doesn't justify that the system should stay the way it is.

 

But come on, you want to have fun sometimes, right? You want to kill some Grineer or Corpus from time to time. You are playing this game to join the fight, not just to level up your equips. What if you got bored and wanted to have some actions, but then a 4 spammer came and leaft nothing for you to do but watch as he did it.

 

This.

 

A warframe's powers are what makes it unique and interesting, and powers are a large part of what elevates the game above being Just Another Shooter.  People talk about energy being easily available, but if you're NOT using efficiency...for most frames it really isn't. Not every ability is a room-clearing damage monger, and crippling power efficiency builds would seriously devalue any ability that can't pay for itself by producing energy orbs (i.e. kills) when used, so really you're just forcing people into more tightly prescribed powers that can.

Then don't use those abilities all the time. I don't expect someone to keep using Shadow of the Dead or Radial Disarm over and over. Use it at the right times, and you have your weapons to back you up, especially for frames like Loki and Nekros because they don't have true attacking powers. I already said this, and I'll say it again. A few hours ago, I played with a Nova that spammed M. Prime throughout a mission. We got to the extraction point first, and the player was spamming M. Prime 15+ times more, no lie. Now, do we really need that much energy efficiency?

 

Warframe powers are unique and interesting, yes, especially when well used. When it's being abused on and on, then it's just annoying. Spamming power, especially the strong ones, is just going to ruin this game. Press 4 over and over to win.

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