Energy Efficiency And Ability Spammers

[NeroGrave]

3) LOL, did you really bring T4 into the argument? T4 has how many games in total, like 5? That versus the hundreds other missions where people play more often. So are you saying T4 is the main game, and the rest are unimportant? LOL!!!!! This game revolves around T4!! HAHAHA!!

 

4) Be honest with me, how often do you run out of energy with a max efficiency build + energy siphon + the rest of that stuff? And no, I am not talking about when the energy leechers are around. You can spam your abilities for every mobs and get everything back. And you don't even need a - slot to put on energy siphon. .

 

5) I had my Fleeting within 10 runs, and I had it in like 2-3 runs on my alt account. The point is, you can get it early in the game. Build a damn vault key and have your team carry you and hope for the best. Doesn't matter how good you are. It's available early in the game when you get your first void key if you work for it.

 

6) Abilities are faster to kill with than most primary/melee weapons, and people don't always have or use those AoE guns. If you have never experienced getting KSed by someone by their abilities alone, then I don't know what to say to you. Oberon comes in, Reckoning. Rhino comes in, Stomps. Ash, Blade Storm. Hydroid, Tentacle Swarm. With the right mods, some abilities can kill before you can even get there. Guns need to be aimed precisely and charge up, or whatever. Abilities just need to run up and press a button to wipe out, and it goes through wall and stuff. You need to think this over. Saying that guns kill faster is only true in higher levels where abilities don't scale, but when it still scales it kills everything fast. When playing as Ash, I can outkill guns easily with Blade Storm only.

 

If those guns can kill that fast already, then why are you even bringing this up as a point? You wouldn't mind if the efficiency cap was lowered, would you? You don't need abilities when you have those fast guns already.

 

6.1) I don't understand how it's selfish and contradictory to you. You want to score a kill for your own enjoyment, then a guy comes then boom, kills everything. You go to the next one, then dead again. The maxed efficiency guy goes on to kill everything with his abilities. You get to do nothing. You haven't played with an Ash that does the most kills with his Blade Storm?

 

7) Well, in 6 I was talking about how your teammates won't get much action if you keep spamming your 4, and they get bored. In 7, I was saying that if people keep using one ability, then it's just the idea of "press 4 to win." Not much variety in their playstyle, which I don't think the DE would encourage.

3). So you would rather make changes for the other parts of the game and make this one totally ignoring the scaling levels later on and the subsequent effects in the game. What you're ignoring is the fact that there are scaling abilities like Nyx's Absorb. Reducing the efficiency will only make the Absorb back to joke level on lower levels. Considering the damage it needs to absorb and the amount of energy consumed per damage absorbed, it will only cause Nyx to be nothing more than a meditating ball in lower levels that knocks back enemies.

 

Channeling abilities will be the first ones to take the major hit and leaving some non-scaling frames to be overpowered. The changes will need to be applied on everything, skill costs will have to be readjusted, skill values will have to be changed again, non-scaling will have to be tuned down to be on par with those channeling abilities. Those who use maxed Blind Rage will have their ultimate's energy cost to reach 155 per cast. So then you'll have to equip Flow to counteract that. And that already has to be a necessity in your build because of that alone, making less choices available for mod options. Mods will then have to be readjusted to fit the newly changed values.

 

Including the "LOL" and "Hahaha" into your argument brings no validity except you showing the limits of your brain capacity and making people taking you less seriously.

 

4). In all seriousness, 3-5 times. Not everyone goes max efficiency build and go in to spam their abilities. There are far better mods to put in like Power Strength mods, Vitality, Redirection, QT+Rage etc. Yes u don't need a - polarity to use Siphon. But do you think everyone uses Siphon in their builds? There are more to min-maxing your frame than just go spam build on all frames if you're playing seriously. You talk as if Energy Siphon is used by all the people in the game. When playing against Infested, its more viable to get Infested Impedance, Shield Disruption against Corpus, Corrosive Projection against Grineer if you wanna go Endless Survival/ Endless Def.

 

You're talking about an ideal situation where there are no energy leechers around. What happens when they are then? Everyone has to keep on crafting energy restores? New players are known to be limited in resources, let alone the credits to keep crafting them. And again, killing mobs doesn't necessarily drop an energy orb all the time. Yes, sometimes they do, but what if they don't and you need it, for let's say, Trin's Blessing to save a dying teammate?

 

5). You're avoiding the question. RNG is an unpredictable element. You may get lucky or you may not. You're putting your own experience as the weighing factor here, and ignoring the others. People can go hundreds of runs and still don't get Fleeting. It is 100% accessible doesn't mean it is 100% obtainable. And new players are just that, newbies, with not knowing much, limited in resources and keys. So everyone who just started the game are told to go "75% efficiency because its the way to go"? You're using smurf accounts, you knew your way around the game already, you can get help from friends you already know to carry you around. But newbies don't have all the luxury like you do. And stop giving your personal experience on how easily you gain those mods. Doesn't matter how lucky you are. It doesn't apply to everyone else due to the fact that RNG exists.

 

6 & 6.1). It is a coop PVE game. I don't mind whether they KS me. Should that make me feel bad? To some people yes, to some others, they can take it as a challenge to try to kill more than the other, using abilities or not. In fact, that helps the team more instead when they use abilities. You don't get medals for killing the most either. What you're talking right now is on lower level missions, where those abilities are still able to one-shot enemies. Feeling bored and bad because you're getting KSed is just a typical ego issue. You are the one who needs to think this over again.

 

"If those guns can kill that fast already, then why are you even bringing this up as a point?" -  If you're just using guns only then what's the point of having skills in this game? This isn't your typical CoD/ BF4 game. Of course abilities are meant to kill faster than guns. Increasing the reliance on guns to kill would only make this game more to the generic third person shooters out there and promote stale gameplay even worse.

 

7). And wanting to have more variety while limiting the currently available variety is not the way to go. You don't have to spam skills to complete missions if you don't want to, you are given the options of using your guns / melee to do so too. So if we see people spamming Penta / Ogris / Boltor Prime / Soma  should we take those away too? Tell me, what variety is there besides firing your guns or using your abilities to complete the mission? The best I can think of atm is Deception and Spy missions where you don't fully need to use guns or skills to complete it. But past that, its either guns or abilities. And reducing the access to abilities would only lead to number 6 above, which I already explained to you.

[Azamagon]

There is a very important thing missed in these discussions:

 

People are looking at the trees, not the forest. Meaning, you are looking at one problem (energy efficiency being too good), while you don't look at everything else (the game's balance as a whole).

 

For the game to be truly balanced, MANY things needs to be done at ONCE:

* As I said before, the efficiency formula is wrong. Make it the old weaker one again.

* With a weaker power efficiency, the weakest abilities (such as most #1 abilities) can be buffed while all the strongest abilities can remain as they are (minor buffs to them are even possible). Note: If weak abilities are supposed to remain weak (which is silly imo, considering Warframes are kinda defined by having powerful abilities), simply reduce the energy costs of those abilities...

* Weapons need a downtuning of their damagepotential by nerfing the damage-increasing mods. Currently they scale to about 70x their base value. Abilities scale only up to 4x, if they are lucky to doubledip (like strength and duration benefits).

* That done, enemies should also be nerfed in their scaling to coincide with the now more in-tune scalings of weapons and abilities

 

^ All that has to be considered, otherwise balance will just remain as messy as it already is.

[Feallike]

I looove how much this OP stirred up the RAGE.

 

Before everyone says people spent 10000s of mods on their builds, no they didn't, the only mod that needs 1000s of mods to be good is narrow minded and, even then that mod at rank 6 can easily get you to 75% so its not as hard as you think.

 

It makes the game less enjoyable, and makes T4 impossible:  XD Wow, if you need to spam your abilities in T4 then you are probably not ready for it, spamming abilities in T4 will get you no where, and even then T4 is part of the game, not the whole game.

 

 

The Main problem however is that frames have abilities that are to spammable, abilities should have a 3 second cooldown, since i am pretty sure a frame can't bend matter and create clones out of nothign 24/7.

 

Also OP the fact that you are getting so defensive and even blatantly insulting the poster is not good either, you should atleast respect their opinion, even if it is biased its their opinion, you shouldn't take it as a insult.

 

Also i am pretty sure the DE feels that Warframes should be the main focus in the battle, and weapons be the secondary thing that killls. I mean guns are ok but we are using space ninja's why wouldn't we make them use awesome abilities. :/

 

Some frames are a little OP when it comes to spamming, but other frames should not be punished, a easy solution would be to increase the cost of frames powers that are easily spammed. :/

[Marthrym]

I disagree entirely OP. I understand your frustration, we're all confronted to that kind of thing, between Stomp spammers and MPrime wh*res, to mention only them. But considering how gimped a lot of abilities already are, nerfing the ability to use them at will is really not a good idea, because it is not viable. And it's easy enough to lose your entire energy pool with all the cheap mechanics used in the game...^^'

[Somedude1000]

Some frames are a little OP when it comes to spamming, but other frames should not be punished, a easy solution would be to increase the cost of frames powers that are easily spammed.

 

All of my yes. Instead of blanket nefing of efficiency, ability spamming will be able to be reduced by this for frames where it is extremely unnecesscary

[Similon]

To oversimplify things, it sounds like the OPs problems stem from:

 

1) Playing with the wrong people

2) Choosing to play in a manner they don't find enjoyable

 

I have made some max efficiency builds, but rarely use them - not because I think it's less fun, or unbalanced. It just doesn't seem necessary, since I rarely run out of energy anyway.

 

Throughout this thread, there are a few things I find questionable, most of which I feel have been adequately addressed by others, except:

"We should rely on guns and blades to do the fighting, and use our special powers when we really need them."

(and the surrounding paragraph)

 

Then what is the point of a caster frame? They're fragile with more powerful abilities, if (in your opinion) abilities are only for the direst situation, and ultimates of non-caster frames are equally room-clearing, where does this leave the Casters? This isn't just some generic shooter, or hack & slash.

 

But yeah, generally if you play with likeminded players, your issues will disappear. I know it's not really a solution to your perceived problem. But it saves everybody else suffering because a few take issue.

You get to happily run around shooting things, and occasionally blade storm if things get tough. And the rest of us get to continue feeling powerful and having fun they way we want.

[Trenggiling]

can't do that when there are level 100+ enemies in t4 survival that can kill u in one shot

and if this nerf is applied then bye bye long t4 survival

good

[achromos]

good

 

Players like you are quite selfish, "Waaah, they aren't playing the game the way I want!  This game isn't meant to go to X difficulty so why should you have any ability to do so, Waaah!"

 

I'm quite sick and tired of people trying to take this game and shove it in the mud and tell it to be Call of Duty, but in space with ninjas.  The reason I play this game is for the Unique weapons, ray guns, using a bow that can shoot through rows of enemies like bowling pins, having the ability to demolish people with a ability while sliding and jump to a wall and climb it and shoot through three of them while watching the health of my team-mates and casting renewal if need be.

 

I don't care if people steal my kills, if people do, you know what that tells me I should do?  Kill harder.  Play faster, and get my A game on. 

 

I swear DE will NOT see another single penny out of me if they turn this into another bland "wanna-be-competitive" call of duty clone.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Sibarian

[msterforks]

This entire thread can be summed up in the following:

A 75% efficiency is too high for most content in the game. But this is only looking at a small part of a much bigger problem: the difficulty curve, and endgame. A potato'd rifle, for the most part, can one shot all of the small mobs in the solar system. Maxed warframe abilities can do the same. A single good weapon defeats the purpose of having a fully pimped loadout. Simply put, there is no end to a means. The game is being built from the ground up, from beginning to end. Those of us who have maxed blind rage, narrow minded and heavy caliber will be waiting a long time before actually requiring such power. We can only wait for a boss that takes 4 highly equipped players an hour to kill, or an exterminate with 2000+ enemies, all of which are 100+, missions in which we NEED to have 25 energy ults.

 

That being said, I find that ammo/energy restores ruin the point of the game. QT + energy restores = invincibility. Couple that with ammo restores and you're sitting there spamming restores and bullets, limited only by your own boredom.

[achromos]

This entire thread can be summed up in the following:

A 75% efficiency is too high for most content in the game. But this is only looking at a small part of a much bigger problem: the difficulty curve, and endgame. A potato'd rifle, for the most part, can one shot all of the small mobs in the solar system. Maxed warframe abilities can do the same. A single good weapon defeats the purpose of having a fully pimped loadout. Simply put, there is no end to a means. The game is being built from the ground up, from beginning to end. Those of us who have maxed blind rage, narrow minded and heavy caliber will be waiting a long time before actually requiring such power. We can only wait for a boss that takes 4 highly equipped players an hour to kill, or an exterminate with 2000+ enemies, all of which are 100+, missions in which we NEED to have 25 energy ults.

 

That being said, I find that ammo/energy restores ruin the point of the game. QT + energy restores = invincibility. Couple that with ammo restores and you're sitting there spamming restores and bullets, limited only by your own boredom.

 

I'll disagree with the whole "75% efficiency being too high..." (I don't play this game to play CoD or any other generic shooter) but you do have a point, I could take the squishiest warframe out there, remove all abilitys, and have only a primary gun (Boltor prime, ect.) and still easily [and I do] kill "high" level enemies, based on mods alone.  I solo'd Sechura to wave 15 (amazing right?  Nah... I got bored :C) with nothing but the gun and only got defeated by my boredom.

 

Personally, abilitys add a bit of spice to the game for me.  I'm willing to wait for that 'end boss' or 'tough mission' to show up, I know it will eventually...

Edited September 7, 2014 by Sibarian

[Monolake]

Or you could say 'I never use my abilities because my Soma kills everything much faster' especially on higher levels where majority of damage abilities do nothing.  Its a problem of power balance that wont be solved with efficiency limits.

Bladestorm is OP btw

Edited September 7, 2014 by Monolake

[Just4Games]

What about those frames who don't have the "one-shot" kill abilities? DE set it at 75% for a reason.

 

My opinion is no, where would be the fun if we can't spam some skills? I enjoy that.

 

Less enjoyable because players keep spamming their ultimate abilities? You're so wrong.

[Sloan441]

Sounds like the OP just needs to find a new game.

 

One where he isn't bothered by what others may or may not do.

 

Kinda like a single player game. That'll teach all those that insist on playing in a manner he finds objectionable. Sounds like a win-win situation. He gets to run things his own way, and we're spared the annoyance of his continued presence.

[rroorr]

How does no sound.

Guns are already much stronger than abilities, go make a thread about Amprex because when I take it on Trinity people have barely anything left to shoot. Your silly suggestion will hurt support and utility frames the most, damage ultimates become weak quickly anyway.

[Egg_Chen]

I think the OP just needs to change his matchmaking option to Solo, and problem solved.

Mods, this should be in Players helping Players and mine is the correct answer ;)

[Trenggiling]

Players like you are quite selfish, "Waaah, they aren't playing the game the way I want!  This game isn't meant to go to X difficulty so why should you have any ability to do so, Waaah!"

 

I'm quite sick and tired of people trying to take this game and shove it in the mud and tell it to be Call of Duty, but in space with ninjas.  The reason I play this game is for the Unique weapons, ray guns, using a bow that can shoot through rows of enemies like bowling pins, having the ability to demolish people with a ability while sliding and jump to a wall and climb it and shoot through three of them while watching the health of my team-mates and casting renewal if need be.

 

I don't care if people steal my kills, if people do, you know what that tells me I should do?  Kill harder.  Play faster, and get my A game on. 

 

I swear DE will NOT see another single penny out of me if they turn this into another bland "wanna-be-competitive" call of duty clone.

You, my friend, are the one who is being selfish.

It is not healthy for the game to be balance for, or even play past level 100+ enemies, and I would love to see you try to justify it.

There is no place for them in the game, (literally, the only place you find them are latter on in endless missions).

Fighting at that level should not be possible. (or at least not easy)

It's a false sense of accomplishment, for you, and for me, and for anyone else.

If shooting into a vortex of enemies isn't fun or challenging at low levels then it's not going to be fun at high levels.

The argument that people who want a challenge can handicap themselves so that the OP nuts can still keep on cruising is just (pardon my stealing of words) selfish.

Also, if you cant get to level 100+ without using an infinite scaling ability, then maybe you shouldn't.

Abilities like pre nerf absorb totally trivialize the game because what is the point of playing high level if they are exactly like the lower levels?

Oh, and as for kill stealing, who cares?

Well... there are some people who do, and we need to respect them.

This game is advertised as a CO-OP game, but I don't see it...

If the only bit of challenge in the game comes up when enemies reach one shotting levels then what is the point of healing?

And all the other buffs (speed, warcry, roar,) all just feel like your buffing yourself, with your friends as an after thought.

Any way I'm ranting, so I will stop now.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Trenggiling

[achromos]

you my friend are the one who is being selfish.

It is not healthy for the game to balance for, or even play past level 100+ enemies and I would love to see you try to justify it.

There is no place for them in the game, (literally, the only place you find them are latter on in endless missions).

Fighting at that level should not be possible. (or at least not easy)

It is a false sense of accomplishment, for you, and for me, and for anyone else.

If shooting into a vortex of enemies isn't fun or challenging at low levels then its not going to be fun at high levels.

The argument that people who want a challenge can handicap themselves so that the OP nuts can still keep on crussing is just (parden my stealing of words) selfish.

Also, if you cant get to level 100+ without using an infinite scaling ability, then maybe you shouldn't.

Abilities like pre nerf absorb totaly trivialize the game because what is the point of playing high level if the are exactly like the lower levels?

Oh and as for kill stealing, who cares?

Well... There are some people who do and we need to respect them.

this game is advertised as a CO OP game, but I dont see it...

If the only bit of challenge in the game comes up when enemies reach one shotting levels then what is the point of healing?

And all the other buffs (speed, warcry, roar, etcetera.) all just feel like your buffing yourself, with your friends as an after thought.

Any way I'm ranting, so I will stop now.

 

Don't try to turn this around on me, I didn't start this thread.  It is perfectly healthy for a game to balance up to and past 100+ if desired.  Why?  Progression.  You speak of Accomplishment as if this game does not have any.  What do you expect out of this game?  Getting to rank 16-17, that is a Accomplishment.  Lasting for a hour in survival in the void?  That is a Accomplishment.  Tell me.  What would be a Accomplishment to you?

 

If getting beat down in the face while being forced NOT to be able to use your abilitys at all and being pigeonholed into just using BORING guns just because the good guns/mods got nerfed because Jr. over here cried about not getting #1 kills (which NOBODY cares about, or should mind you) then I think this is the wrong game for someone, and it isn't me.

 

Abilitys like Absorb, when it actually worked.  Did NOT trivialize content, because your energy ran out, eventually.  You weren't invincible, you were immobile and restricted and a target.  Did you actually even play Nyx?  Do you play her now!?  A single SHOT from a Ogris will wipe out almost ALL of your energy if you are lucky... and then what?

 

As far as "respecting" them.  I respect them in the sense that I don't go out of my way to say harsh words about them.  This game is "Advertised" as a Co-Op game, it is, if you do not see it, then you must not have your public settings on any of the popular nodes (Mimas... sechura, ect.)  I see three other players, playing with others on the same side = co-op.

 

Yes, DE needs to make more challenging missions.  However, they don't need to NERF perfectly good abilitys and force us to use guns because little johnny over here isn't playing the game correctly and getting butthurt over being low on the leader boards (which nobody cares about, well... a few do).

 

I really don't want this game to turn into L4D, or CoD.  People should stop trying to make this game into THAT and go play those, this game is actually unique and fun.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Sibarian

[Similon]

May just be me, but I think the game should be balanced for the levels it's built around. Judging by the star chart and our progression, this is 1-30(5).

 

I think anything past there should be damned tricky, so going 40+ minutes is an impressive feat, not the norm.

 

But this is getting a bit off topic...

[LukeAura]

Like I used to spam my 1, Shuriken on my Ash. Cost 6 energy for 750 damage x 2 and the bleeding effect. Sometimes I saw mobs, and just 1 1 1 1 1 1 1, and they all die. So spamming 1 is the same as spamming 4, IMO, but on a smaller scale. I really didn't need to spam 1, but I did it because of so many energy and energy efficiency. There are times when i really need 1, but most of the times I don't. People just need to play smart and not just depending on their abilities to save them.

But you could have made your one spam better by using it with a gun. It only hits 2 targets at any given time and doesn't disrupt movement or gunplay, at that point it was your choice to spam 1 without maximizing your effectiveness.  Unlike spamming 4, spamming 1 is not going to solve all your problems as effectively as possible. Using 1 in combination with your other tools is better than using 1 alone. 

4 spam is not improved with guns, melee or movement, it is too powerful and does too much.

I could also say the same about sweeping with a shotgun or rifle as you could say about 1 spam. Using abilities to kill effectively is not a problem, using abilities that are so long range and so CC heavy that enemies can never damage us, is. 

 

[Trenggiling]

Sibarian said the things in redtext

Because quote limit :P

 

Don't try to turn this around on me, I didn't start this thread.

Me neither... your point?

 

It is perfectly healthy for a game to balance up to and past 100+ if desired.

*mourns common sense*

 

Why?  Progression.

There is no progression!

That's my point!

Infinite scaling abilities by very nature DON'T PROGRESS!

 

You speak of Accomplishment as if this game does not have any.

Did not mean to insinuate that, all I meant is that getting to (and WAY beyond) high level content is super easy, and with the help of cheat level power you can do it without even thinking about it.

And THAT is NOT much of an accomplishment.

 

What do you expect out of this game?

Well making end game (the first few waves of T4 void) actually hard might be a good start.

 

Getting to rank 16-17, that is a Accomplishment.

Been there, done that, it's just brain dead grind... that's all...

 

Lasting for a hour in survival in the void?  That is a Accomplishment.

If you deliberately sabotage yourself maybe.

 

Tell me.  What would be a Accomplishment to you?

Lasting in void survival for a hour, with only starter gear.

Talking about T1 or T2 here just to clarify... but T3 and T4 would be more impressive.

 

If getting beat down in the face while being forced NOT to be able to use your abilitys at all and being pigeonholed into just using BORING guns

Who is stopping you from using your abilities?

Also. why are using boring guns?

We have plenty of very fun ones to choose from.

 

just because the good guns/mods got nerfed because Jr. over here cried about not getting #1 kills

Wait... who is crying about kills?

 

(which NOBODY cares about, or should mind you)

Whoa now! That is NOT true, just because YOU don't care about them doesn't mean that others should not!

 

then I think this is the wrong game for someone, and it isn't me.

This game suits many people not just you.

Stop trying to force everything to fit you, and start to think about what is healthy for the game.

 

Abilitys like Absorb, when it actually worked.  Did NOT trivialize content, because your energy ran out, eventually.

HAHAHAHAHA! no.

Back when "it still worked" I went into a void mission solo and stayed for 2 hours straight.

IT WAS SO FREAKIN BORING!!!!!!!!

The skill was LITERALLY a WIN button that let you, not only survive anything, but kill EVERYTHING as well.

As for the stupid excuse of "Oh... you could run out of energy! There is a small loophole that could get you killed if you fall asleep!" is not valid.

Anyone with streamline, fleeting expertise, and half a brain could have that thing going INDEFINITELY with the greatest of ease.

 

You weren't invincible,

Seriously... how did you come to that conclusion?

Did you actually even play Nyx?

 

you were immobile and restricted and a target.

So? Everything would die or be knocked over if you ended it.

Giving you plenty of time to grab your loot and start it again.

 

Did you actually even play Nyx?

Hey! Don't repeat me!

 

Do you play her now!?

No not yet, but I heard that they over did her (much needed) nerf.

I will have to go see for myself some time.

But every time I slot absorb into my build I practically fall asleep at boring memories of level 100+ enemies dying without a fight.

 

A single SHOT from a Ogris will wipe out almost ALL of your energy if you are lucky... and then what?

Ya I heard about that.

If they still go with the damage-drains-energy thing then they should definitely make it unaffected by friendly fire.

 

As far as "respecting" them.  I respect them in the sense that I don't go out of my way to say harsh words about them.

Your idea of respect is not going out of your way to harass someone?!?!

wow... If that is true then I would hate to know you.

Sorry but I would...

 

This game is "Advertised" as a Co-Op game, it is, if you do not see it, then you must not have your public settings on any of the popular nodes (Mimas... sechura, ect.)  I see three other players, playing with others on the same side = co-op.

Ya it's technically a CO-OP game in that respect.

But I like to play support characters a lot.

And I just don't feel like I'm ever helping someone be awesome in this game.

Every single support skill seams to be designed to help YOU with your friends as an afterthought.

Ya sure there are the healers.

But there is no place for them in this game currently, because if you have reached a level where there is even a chance of losing, then people will be getting one shot-ed and healing won't matter.

 

Yes, DE needs to make more challenging missions.

No, the missions that are supposed to be challenging need to actually BE challenging.

 

However, they don't need to NERF perfectly good abilitys

Perfectly good abilities can stay as they are.

But abilities that trivialize the end game need to go.

Because it won't matter how hard the new end game gets, if we can just kill and survive all with ease.

 

and force us to use guns because little johnny over here isn't playing the game correctly

Okay again with this.

I should probably make myself clear on this point.

1: I don't actually agree with the OP's over zealous nerf to power efficiency.

2: Even if power efficiency was removed entirely it still wouldn't make it impossible to use abilities.

 

and getting butthurt over being low on the leader boards (which nobody cares about, well... a few do).

The only thing that the leader boards show is mental stamina to keep doing the same boring thing over and over and over again.

Because it's supper easy to just use the OP stuff and win anything, at any level.

This is just wrong!

I want to look at the leader boards and think "WOW! Those guys have skill!" not "Hu... They sure wasted their day"

 

I really don't want this game to turn into L4D, or CoD.

Do those things stand for, left 4 dead, and call of duty?

Because I haven't played either of those...

Well... I played a really old call of duty game that I got from the thrift store.

It wasn't that hard... and it had its charm... but warframe is completely different and should stay that way.

 

People should stop trying to make this game into THAT and go play those

If they're free then okay, maybe I'll give them a try someday... if not then NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

this game is actually unique and fun.

Unique yes!

But fun..... it's very fun at first, but you'll burn it out soon, and then you need to intentionally handicap yourself... or wait till the next ball of string warframe comes out so that you can burn that out.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Trenggiling

[Varlu]

You play in missions with weak enemies. Start playing in long survival/defense games and T4's.

[achromos]

Putting my response below yours and in "quotations"

 

 

Don't try to turn this around on me, I didn't start this thread.

Me neither... your point?

"My point is, that turning the issue around does not well enough prove anything substancialand equates to a child saying 'You did it too!' that's all"

 

It is perfectly healthy for a game to balance up to and past 100+ if desired.

*mourns common sense*

"There ARE people who like pushing the limit, me for example.  Until they provide a actual challenge, and I mean without nerfing every warframe/weapon down to where they are pea shooters and cloth armor"

 

Why?  Progression.

There is no progression!

That's my point!

Infinite scaling abilities by very nature DON'T PROGRESS!

 

"Infinate scaling abilitys do progress, thats the point.  If you have a static ability that does 1000 damage.  It will only be viable against enemies that say, have 1000-2000 hp, lets say you are in T4, would you Ever consider using a damage ability that will only take 1/20th of a enemies health off?  Or would you rather have a ability that can readily take off the same chunk of health with the same time/preperation? (absorb for instance, what it used to do, all it did was return damage.)

 

How are ability's supposed to progress, I don't see what EVOLUTION you are trying to hint at...  Iron skin... does not progress, World on fire, does not progress, progress means change.  Absorb CHANGED with the environment.  If you were against weak enemies, it would output weak damage, ect."

 

You speak of Accomplishment as if this game does not have any.

Did not mean to insinuate that, all I meant is that getting to (and WAY beyond) high level content is super easy, and with the help of cheat level power you can do it without even thinking about it.

And THAT is NOT much of an accomplishment.

 

"Cheat level power? Really?  The only powers that I personally believe were "Cheat Level" would be the un-nerfed blessing, and M.Prime before that was nerfed because it litterally did the work for you, you COULD NOT LOSE.  I don't know about you, but I played with Nyx, in Sechura, there ARE times you HAVE TO come out of absorb, there are times where your energy will be low (without using Team energy restores) and that is EVEN with Max efficiency.  Energy syphon gets turned off, so you have to be exaggerating on your account of Absorb."

 

What do you expect out of this game?

Well making end game (the first few waves of T4 void) actually hard might be a good start.

 

"So do we start making endgame hard by turning warframes and weapons into toys? or by giving enemies abilitys to actually interestingly counteract the powers of the warframe and weapons itself?"

 

Getting to rank 16-17, that is a Accomplishment.

Been there, done that, it's just brain dead grind... that's all...

"I like grinding, actually.  It helps relieve stress."

 

Lasting for a hour in survival in the void?  That is a Accomplishment.

If you deliberately sabotage yourself maybe.

"Survival in the void ISN'T easy due to Life support RNG, the enemies might not always be a challenge, but its more a fight with RNG imo, so I say getting to a hour in Survival in the void is a decent accomplishment against RNG."

 

Tell me.  What would be a Accomplishment to you?

Lasting in void survival for a hour, with only starter gear.

Talking about T1 or T2 here just to clarify... but T3 and T4 would be more impressive.

"Oh please, I can do that easily barring Life Support RNG.  By starter gear you mean MK1 stuff, right?  Easy enough with a few forma and mods, not really much difference I can even bring Excaliber and do fine..."

 

If getting beat down in the face while being forced NOT to be able to use your abilitys at all and being pigeonholed into just using BORING guns

Who is stopping you from using your abilities?

Also. why are using boring guns?

We have plenty of very fun ones to choose from.

 

"Every gun fires bullets, lasers, whatever...  It gets boring after a while, all I see the guns as is reskins of the same implement so they do get boring after a while.  Sure there are some fun ones, I actually like the bows, but I was under the impression you were "Anti-ability" "Anti-efficiency" though apparently from your post you aren't."

 

just because the good guns/mods got nerfed because Jr. over here cried about not getting #1 kills

Wait... who is crying about kills?

 

"A lot of people do, especially when in topics like this, so excuse me for per-emtively stating something."

 

(which NOBODY cares about, or should mind you)

Whoa now! That is NOT true, just because YOU don't care about them doesn't mean that others should not!

 

"They shouldn't, this is a Co-Op game.  I doubt a football team gets pissed off at one of their own for doing exceedingly well and having both experience and time in the game to know what to do and the physical stamina that comes with it."

 

then I think this is the wrong game for someone, and it isn't me.

This game suits many people not just you.

Stop trying to force everything to fit you, and start to think about what is healthy for the game.

 

"This is funny, I'm not trying to force everything to fit ME.  This whole topic was made by people trying to get the game from what it is (something I like), to fit THEM.  So, if they have the right to put their input in, so do I.  If this game is made to suit many people, then tell that to the OP.  Again, I didn't start this topic, and don't throw that back at me.  The point of me saying that is... if he didn't start the topic, this discussion wouldn't be happening at all to begin with.  Think on that."

 

Abilitys like Absorb, when it actually worked.  Did NOT trivialize content, because your energy ran out, eventually.

HAHAHAHAHA! no.

Back when "it still worked" I went into a void mission solo and stayed for 2 hours straight.

IT WAS SO FREAKIN BORING!!!!!!!!

The skill was LITERALLY a WIN button that let you, not only survive anything, but kill EVERYTHING as well.

As for the stupid excuse of "Oh... you could run out of energy! There is a small loophole that could get you killed if you fall asleep!" is not valid.

Anyone with streamline, fleeting expertise, and half a brain could have that thing going INDEFINITELY with the greatest of ease.

 

"Again, lies.  It is boring for YOU, why did you keep playing nyx.  Also I highly doubt you stayed solo 2 hours strait, how about you grab some proof next time instead of embellishing a number.  You can still run out of energy EVEN at the 75% cap, I know, because I've done the SAME THING, and quit eventually... unlike you, which bored YOURSELF to tears, the game didn't say "You must do this" now did it?"

 

You weren't invincible,

Seriously... how did you come to that conclusion?

Did you actually even play Nyx?

 

"The conclusion which you are trying to chuck out the window, is that you CAN run out of energy, especially if you aren't being a one trick pony and using other abilitys and helping your team.  On solo, even you CAN run out of energy, I have the arcane helmet and min/maxed the Hek out of Nyx so do not tell me these lies."

 

you were immobile and restricted and a target.

So? Everything would die or be knocked over if you ended it.

Giving you plenty of time to grab your loot and start it again.

 

"Immobility, and not EVERYTHING would die, and they would get up soon enough especially if you were surrounded.  You didn't have THAT much time even if soloing on a Defense mission in Sechura."

 

Did you actually even play Nyx?

Hey! Don't repeat me!

 

"You've played Nyx?  Are you sure it wasn't some other warframe?"

 

Do you play her now!?

No not yet, but I heard that they over did her (much needed) nerf.

I will have to go see for myself some time.

But every time I slot absorb into my build I practically fall asleep at boring memories of level 100+ enemies dying without a fight.

 

"I believe that is Narcolepsy and you should get that looked at.  Absorb was a FUN skill, in my opinion, and you SHOULD see what people whining about a perfectly good ability can do."

 

A single SHOT from a Ogris will wipe out almost ALL of your energy if you are lucky... and then what?

Ya I heard about that.

If they still go with the damage-drains-energy thing then they should definitely make it unaffected by friendly fire.

 

"They need to return it back to what it was, instead, though.  And being unaffected by friendly fire IS COUNTER INTUITIVE to the ability.  In ODD's and Defense missions, my friends would just focus fire on me, let enemies surround me and I'd wipe them out with their help.  It is supposed to be a TEAM assisted ability to get the max potential, and now your team just ends up trolling your energy pool."

 

As far as "respecting" them.  I respect them in the sense that I don't go out of my way to say harsh words about them.

Your idea of respect is not going out of your way to harass someone?!?!

wow... If that is true then I would hate to know you.

Sorry but I would...

 

"I don't want to know you either, seriously, Narcoleptic and unable to see the grander scope of things.  Nyx's Absorb as it was... was perfectly balanced, NOBODY was complaining about it... definitely not as much as someone would complain about M.Prime."

 

This game is "Advertised" as a Co-Op game, it is, if you do not see it, then you must not have your public settings on any of the popular nodes (Mimas... sechura, ect.)  I see three other players, playing with others on the same side = co-op.

Ya it's technically a CO-OP game in that respect.

But I like to play support characters a lot.

And I just don't feel like I'm ever helping someone be awesome in this game.

Every single support skill seams to be designed to help YOU with your friends as an afterthought.

Ya sure there are the healers.

But there is no place for them in this game currently, because if you have reached a level where there is even a chance of losing, then people will be getting one shot-ed and healing won't matter.

 

"Again, I have had many counter examples.  I have been able to heal plenty of people as oberon, even slow their bleedout, how does slowing THEIR bleedout help ME?  it helps me get to them.  Hollowed ground, how does that help just me?  Anyone stepping on it is immune to procs, there is at least two revamped skills that help the team well enough imo.

 

True once you get 30-60 minutes into T4, unless people are geared to the teeth, they 'might' fall like flies, but still.  Instead of helping someone be awesome, why not BE awesome?"

 

Yes, DE needs to make more challenging missions.

No, the missions that are supposed to be challenging need to actually BE challenging.

 

"If they are supposed to be challenging to EVERYONE, then why can I shoot 5 enemies in the face with one arrow and deal 10k+ damage each effectively killing them all?"

 

However, they don't need to NERF perfectly good abilitys

Perfectly good abilities can stay as they are.

But abilities that trivialize the end game need to go.

Because it won't matter how hard the new end game gets, if we can just kill and survive all with ease.

 

"Again, the only two... actually... three ability's that trivialized the game were M.Prime, Blessing, and Iron skin, and they all got an appropriate change. How is allowing your team to DRAIN YOU OF ENERGY a appropriate change for Absorbtion?"

 

and force us to use guns because little johnny over here isn't playing the game correctly

Okay again with this.

I should probably make myself clear on this point.

1: I don't actually agree with the OP's over zealous nerf to power efficiency.

2: Even if power efficiency was removed entirely it still wouldn't make it impossible to use abilities.

 

"It wouldn't be impossible, but it would slowly shift the focus off of abilitys, all because of a few whining people wanting CoD: Warframe edition..."

 

and getting butthurt over being low on the leader boards (which nobody cares about, well... a few do).

The only thing that the leader boards show is mental stamina to keep doing the same boring thing over and over and over again.

Because it's supper easy to just use the OP stuff and win anything, at any level.

This is just wrong!

I want to look at the leader boards and think "WOW! Those guys have skill!" not "Hu... They sure wasted their day"

 

"Exactly, nobody cares about that.  Sure, the leaderboards SHOULD mean something, but people took advantage of the system to the point that they trivialize the game with... what blessing used to be, same with iron skin and M.Prime.  They all got fixed though.  Absorb got BROKEN."

 

I really don't want this game to turn into L4D, or CoD.

Do those things stand for, left 4 dead, and call of duty?

Because I haven't played either of those...

Well... I played a really old call of duty game that I got from the thrift store.

It wasn't that hard... and it had its charm... but warframe is completely different and should stay that way.

 

"Yes, and exactly.  Though I get the feeling from people like the op that they would rather play the game without ability's at all."

 

People should stop trying to make this game into THAT and go play those

If they're free then okay, maybe I'll give them a try someday... if not then NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

"Good :)"

 

this game is actually unique and fun.

Unique yes!

But fun..... it's very fun at first, but you'll burn it out soon, and then you need to intentionally handicap yourself... or wait till the next ball of string warframe comes out so that you can burn that out.

 

"Every game can burn someone out, Skyrim, Dark Souls 1 and 2, ect.  I don't know a SINGLE game that eventually does not make someone say ... I'm going to go do something else, after 500 hours.  Well, I have 400 hours in this game atm and still not burned out, I just got to the point of wanting to play something else for a while and came back just fine.  It seems like YOU are forcing yourself to play this game, or maybe you are just not feeling up to it.  My advice, if you haven't already... play something else, this game wont go anywhere, trust me."

[Mesyra]

I dont like this idea. most of the frames are messed up by 75% efficiency because -50% duration, that really hurts a lot of them.

 

this does not need to be changed. leave it alone, please.

[(PSN)InstantOG]

I was waiting for a Loki name drop in there but it was left alone. Without Energy efficiency and ability spam I don't think I would enjoy Loki all too much because at a certain level I NEED to spam 2 and 4 to survive.  

[ra9una]

For feedback wording: No. I dislike the idea, weakening skills and/or using mod slots to give extra efficiency makes the abilitys malleable, and allows the player to adapt their build to their play style and to the situation.

 

In my head wording: Wha...........this is......... HAAHAHAAHAHA.......yeah no.