Heavy Caliber Favors Op Weapons?

[Guest Tehnoobshow]

If you put a max rank Heavy cal on a Soma, which has 28.6 accuracy, and on a Dera, which has 100 accuracy, you will see that the Soma has higher accuracy than the Dera. What's up with that?

[Stormandreas]

Or just stick it on guns like the Flux Rifle or Glaxion and you then don't care about Accuracy

[Angius]

Accuracy numbers in Warframe mean nothing, you can completely disregard them, nobody really knows how the hell do they work.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

Because weapons stats really don't give 'accurate accuracies'.
The display system is in need of an overhaul.

[Mesyra]

 

Accuracy numbers in Warframe mean nothing, you can completely disregard them, nobody really knows how the hell do they work.

 

this^

[painterman]

Because weapons stats really don't give 'accurate accuracies'.

The display system is in need of an overhaul.

Maybe for archwind?. When the review on the acurrazy?

[Y4gers]

My rule of thumb is: Heavy Caliber works perfectly fine on every full automatic weapon. With semiautomatic i at least try it out a few runs to see wether i like the tradeoff and i generally dont use it on sniper/bows.

Really, forget the accuracy value. ^^

Edited September 6, 2014 by Y4gers

[TheCometCE]

accuracy seems to be some benchmark stat that factors in spread and recoil, and probably some unknown factors, so it's really a poor representation of how accurate a gun is. personally I think they should have a separate stat for recoil and drift/bloom, or something like that.

anyways on topic, yeah it does feel like many of the high tier guns don't take much of a hit from heavy calibur, at least with the boltor prime it makes long shots less reliable.

Edited September 6, 2014 by TheCometCE

[taiiat]

personally I think they should have a separate stat for recoil and drift/bloom, or something like that.

at least with the boltor prime it makes long shots less reliable.

- i'd love actual stats for all of the Accuracy related facets.

 

- less reliable, though if you just shoot a volley of shots and whatever it is is still dead anyways. *shrugs*

[Sloan441]

Heavy caliber favors high accuracy weapons--since they actually can hit something at range when it's maxed rank.

 

The reason it's so often seen in BoltorP builds is the BoltorP's 50 accuracy stat. Same thing with the Dera.

 

I used a couple of ranks of HC on my Soma and at max it made the Boar Prime look like a Palma Match rifle.

[Azawarau]

I suppose that depends on your view but i thing its nicer for spraying weapons that can take advantage of the spread or weapons that arent hurt by the spread at all

[Guest Tehnoobshow]

Heavy caliber favors high accuracy weapons--since they actually can hit something at range when it's maxed rank.

 

The reason it's so often seen in BoltorP builds is the BoltorP's 50 accuracy stat. Same thing with the Dera.

 

I used a couple of ranks of HC on my Soma and at max it made the Boar Prime look like a Palma Match rifle.

Actually, Heavy Caliber favors low accuracy weapons. High accuracy weapons and low accuracy weapons get reduced to about the same accuracy at max rank, most of the time the high accuracy weapon gets a lower accuracy number than the low accuracy weapon. Basically, DE hates anyone who doesn't use bullet hoses.

[Netheroc]

Actually, Heavy Caliber favors low accuracy weapons. High accuracy weapons and low accuracy weapons get reduced to about the same accuracy at max rank, most of the time the high accuracy weapon gets a lower accuracy number than the low accuracy weapon. Basically, DE hates anyone who doesn't use bullet hoses.

This, so much. HC hurts very badly on precision weapons like latrons, but theres little to almost no difference to automatic weapons (unless they are not precise by default, like Supra or Gorgon). Soma is still damn accurate and can be a good sniper, Boltor is really not affected by it.

[Sloan441]

Low accuracy just becomes non-existent accuracy. You can't miss something hard enough to kill it.

 

I suppose if you're talking the Supra you could say you don't have much to lose since it can barely land aimed fire as it is, but generally the performance drop from a maxed HC means your effective range is going to be less than half of what it was to begin with.

 

If you can work with that, great. If not, you're better off not using it.

[Rekkou]

It's the way Dera accuracy works, inaccuracy actually have exponential effect on Dera

 

Dera's projectile isn't fired in straight line, but 2 different emitters converging to the point you're aiming. It's a very sensitive pointing method, a little inaccuracy will make both emitter miss its converging point by various degree, making the shots very inaccurate.

[Otenko]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/291665-lanka-heavy-caliber-win-win/

 

Jacate's post at the bottom gives a pretty thorough explanation on the intricacies of accuracy and their representation in-game. It's an interesting post if someone gives half of a crap about the seemingly arbitrary accuracy numbers.

 

But in any case, Heavy Caliber just favors weapons that work in close ranges anyway. Most of the skirmishes in-game don't get farther than 50m and even if they did, it's incredibly easy to close distance and bust out a power/gunshot after you get in-range of the enemy.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Otenko

[Niryco]

If you put a max rank Heavy cal on a Soma, which has 28.6 accuracy, and on a Dera, which has 100 accuracy, you will see that the Soma has higher accuracy than the Dera. What's up with that?

think accuracy like a distribution curve. Each weapon type has their own respective "mean" or balance accuracy to reference from and this mean value is the actual spread.

 

So snipers might have an actual spread of 0.1cm per 100 meters but for a rifle it is 1cm per 100 meters, so the accuracy just takes reference from that value and stats that it is 28.6 or 100(this is usually infinity means that it does not deviate from the mean spread)

 

However due to a more narrow distribution, once there is a simple deviation for 100, you would see a larger decrease.

[WhisperByte]

From my experience (and it's probably just a 'gut feeling') Heavy Caliber and Magnum Force are bugged on projectile weapons (at least the 100 accuracy ones) and reduce their accuracy far more than they are supposed to.

(They seem to have fixed this to some extent)

It's kind of how punch through on projectile weapons is rather wonky (projectiles sometimes go off in a weird angle after exiting an object that they just passed)

Edited September 7, 2014 by WhisperByte

[Guest Tehnoobshow]

think accuracy like a distribution curve. Each weapon type has their own respective "mean" or balance accuracy to reference from and this mean value is the actual spread.

 

So snipers might have an actual spread of 0.1cm per 100 meters but for a rifle it is 1cm per 100 meters, so the accuracy just takes reference from that value and stats that it is 28.6 or 100(this is usually infinity means that it does not deviate from the mean spread)

 

However due to a more narrow distribution, once there is a simple deviation for 100, you would see a larger decrease.

That is...interesting. Do you have any solid proof of this? Did you break into the game or just test weapons extensively? I'd like to see some math for this.

[Niryco]

That is...interesting. Do you have any solid proof of this? Did you break into the game or just test weapons extensively? I'd like to see some math for this.

i don't have proof per say, but this is generally how accuracy can be represented to balance each respectively.

 

The 28.6 or 13.3 value would be the critical region or limit at which the bullet of the weapon would deviate from the mean value(or mean spread), the actual value however is not really countable by us unless we knew the mean and the standard deviation.

 

So that is kinda why no one can really estimate much on this part of the game, accuracy using statistics would require alot of sample calculations to minimize RNG and even then it would still be hard to pinpoint the actual value, most of it would be estimates at best.

 

Also the boundaries of testing would be hard, we need first a set distance (roughly 20 to 50 meters) using the waypoint, shoot at a wall and repeat with multiple pictures for maybe 2 clips, measure using pixels and assume thereafter.

 

I think it is better to ask renegade 343 on his opinion about this, a better mathematician that he is.

[Thelonious]

All nice and dandy, but still doesn't explain why HC has such unpredictable effects on weapons: some get no significant change in accuracy, while others are rendered useless, which in the end hurts weapon balance at high level. 

 

Taking the Dera for example, you can say for sure that although they have very similar base stats, it is way less viable than say a Braton Prime (or even a normal Braton for that matter), just because you can't equip a maxed HC on it.

Well, you can, but don't expect to hit anything past the 10 meters range. Woooooooh, Dera Shotgun FTW

 

And same with Magnum Force, but less of an issue cause this mod is pointless: a simple elemental mod will almost give you the same damage boost, without any accuracy loss.

But that's another issue...

[Guest Tehnoobshow]

i don't have proof per say, but this is generally how accuracy can be represented to balance each respectively.

 

The 28.6 or 13.3 value would be the critical region or limit at which the bullet of the weapon would deviate from the mean value(or mean spread), the actual value however is not really countable by us unless we knew the mean and the standard deviation.

 

So that is kinda why no one can really estimate much on this part of the game, accuracy using statistics would require alot of sample calculations to minimize RNG and even then it would still be hard to pinpoint the actual value, most of it would be estimates at best.

 

Also the boundaries of testing would be hard, we need first a set distance (roughly 20 to 50 meters) using the waypoint, shoot at a wall and repeat with multiple pictures for maybe 2 clips, measure using pixels and assume thereafter.

 

I think it is better to ask renegade 343 on his opinion about this, a better mathematician that he is.

I'm gonna PM him right now.